Author Topic: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes  (Read 3873 times)

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Offline butchoy8701

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GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« on: Apr 02, 2007 at 02:56 PM »
Guys / Gurus,

I just wanna know your personal experience and impression about the vintage tubes listed below.  Inputs are very much appreciated.  ;D

Here are some VERY GENERAL observations about some of the vintage NOS types tubes:

TELEFUNKEN, SIEMENS, VALVO, LORENZ, and other German made NOS: These tubes are usually characterized by an impressive open "air" at the top end. The soundstage is large, even in mono applications these tubes have a great 3-D image. The midrange is ruler flat, and the bass is tight and accurate. These tubes have a fine sense of dynamics, and most are impressively quiet. These are not "warm" tubes, and to some ears their lack of midrange warmth may be heard as bright. I tend to think of them as accurate, and their clean, focused sonic image is astonishing.

AMPEREX, PHILIPS, MAZDA and other Holland/France/Belgium made NOS: These tubes are a great balance of a clean, airy top end, nice midrange warmth, and accurate bass. They are very pleasant, clean, and musical to listen to in hi-fi applications. Unlike other clean European tubes, these break-up impressively when overdriven in a guitar amp. The rare longplate versions are the same, but with even more soundstage space and detail. The Mazda adds a nice bit of dynamic punch to the sound.

MULLARD, GENALEX, BRIMAR, and other British made NOS: Like a warm British jacket of the finest tweed, these glorious tubes have an attractive sweet warmth in their midrange and lower regions. The top end is silky and pleasant, without being rolled-off. The best of these tubes retain a fine sense of "air" at the top, and the upper midrange is smooth and liquid. These tubes reproduce the human voice, especially female voices, with haunting realism. The rare longplates and Genalex versions have an eye-popping huge soundstage, razor sharp focus and detail, and an uncolored top end while retaining the warmth of the lower priced versions.

RCA, RAYTHEON, GE, SYLVANIA, and other USA made NOS: This group is very diverse. The RCA, Raytheon, and Sylvania blackplates are among the best here. These are very musical tubes with air and sparkle at the top end, warmth in the mids, and great bass. The RCA are drop dead beautiful in guitar amps, even the lower priced greyplate and longplate versions. They also have a wonderful "phat" gritty sound when overdriven in these amps. The blackplates and most tubes made for organs are very quiet. The greyplate GE is an all-around nice-guy tube to listen to, the longplate here possibly getting the nod for hi-fi use. The Sylvania greyplate and military versions are clean and a bit bright, but the Sylvania 5751 variants are very balanced and pleasant to listen to for hours. The GE blackplate 5751 triple mica is also in great demand as a very musical vintage tube. The RCA 5751 is more like the Mullard, with a rich warmth and wide bandwidth. Currently, the USA made tubes are a nice surprise with their low prices as compared to the European types.


Offline alexg

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #1 on: Apr 02, 2007 at 04:29 PM »
It is quite hard to generalize by brand, or it is impossible to generalize on brands alone.

Example, some GE is good like the triple mica 5751's but some are really bad like their 12au7. Some Telefunkens sound good, some does not.

In addition, tubes sound differently on different amps or gears! I have a pair of Shuguang KT88 that sounds ok with an Audio Space amp but is lifeless on  my diy KT88/6550 SE.

Also depends on the type of music you want.
I went fishing the other day, and I caught a BIG ONE!

Offline oweidah

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #2 on: Apr 02, 2007 at 05:29 PM »
nice topic sadik butchoy!
may i suggest that people indicate the associated gears used with the tubes (amp/preamp/cdp/tube buffer etc).

i agree with alexg that its all weder-weder matching tubes with the gears. ex: ge12au7 dobol mica greyplate doesnt quite make it to alexgs list but its fine with me. when it comes to bass reproduction it beats the shoot out of rca12au7a cleartops, but when it comes to mids and treble repro, cleartops is one of the best for me. (tho some say "manipis" daw cleartops) but for best all-rounder, id hand it to the rca triplemica blackplates.

for warmer "thicker/fatter" sound, id go for 12sn7 tubes ;D

preamps- diy 12au7 : diy 12sn7
amps - stealth modded dual s.i. t-amps
speakers - quad 12L
cdp- victor japan surplus

***
some links we're familiar with :)
https://www.tubeworld.com/12au7.htm
http://www.nickdangerous.com/misc/mghead/joestubelore.htm
https://www.tubeworld.com/12ax7.htm
https://www.tubeworld.com/6922.htm
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ta/nostubes_e.html


« Last Edit: Apr 02, 2007 at 05:53 PM by oweidah »

Offline Le_Stat

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #3 on: Apr 02, 2007 at 06:16 PM »
Butchoy,

I assume that you are talking about PREAMP tubes here.

Well, it would still be best to acquire ALL and then decide for yourself in your system.  Minsan kahit greyplate maganda tunog but also depends on your mood.  Here are my observations from my equipment:

Telefunken 12ax7 ribbed - Matalas at detailed.
EH 12ax7 - for general use.  ayos lang.
5751 RCA triple mica Black plate - Warm sounds.
Matsus**ta 12ax7 - complements 6550 due to its dynamic character.  Not warm. Detailed for instrumentals.
5751 Sylvania Greyplate double mica - Smooth, but not detailed.

12au7 RCA Cleartops - warm, silky smooth, a little bass.
5814 Raytheon Windmill Getter - Detailed spot on, matalas, malutong.
12au7 RCA Blackplate command series - very warm, bassy.
EH 12au7 - for General use.  ayos lang.

However, if you are talking about POWER TUBES then bihira lang makakasagot ng tanong mo coz these are indeed exotic.  I am one of the lucky ones to get Tungsol 6550 USA, and all I can say is that it is indeed a gem!  I am now hunting for a Mullard EL34 with metal base.

6550 Tungsol USA, 3 holes on pilar - Dynamic and warm. Very good with Instrumentals as well as vocals.
EH 6CA7 - Good on vocals.  Mataba tunog and tight bass.

Don't forget about your RECTIFIER 5AR4.

Sovtek 5AR4 - ayos lang.  General Use.
Matsus**ta 5AR4 - Better than Sovtek.
Mullard 5AR4 - Very good.  Imaging is improved as well as soundstage.

And lastly, 6922.  I used the following but have not really a/b it yet.

EH6922
Siemens A Frame 6922
Amperex A Frame 6922 


Equipment Used:
TUBE POWER AMP - Cayin A70
TUBE PREAMP      - Cayin SC-6
TUBE CDP            - Cayin CD15T




« Last Edit: Apr 02, 2007 at 06:36 PM by Le_Stat »
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Offline butchoy8701

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #4 on: Apr 02, 2007 at 08:14 PM »
Thanks guys for your inputs... ;D

Butchoy,

I assume that you are talking about PREAMP tubes here.


Right on the money Andrew, It's a good thing you mentioned power and rectifier tubes. ;)

I personally like the RCA NOS 12ax7 cleartops for its warm sound, i immediately noticed this when i replaced my stock 12ax7eh.  You guys are great, i'm learning so much from you.

Oweidah,

Thanks for suggesting the inclusion of associated gears. :)

Offline Le_Stat

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #5 on: Apr 02, 2007 at 09:27 PM »
Butchoy,

Maybe you are referring to the 12au7 RCA cleartop? I haven't encountered any 12ax7 cleartop.  I might be wrong though.
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Offline butchoy8701

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #6 on: Apr 02, 2007 at 10:07 PM »
Butchoy,

Maybe you are referring to the 12au7 RCA cleartop? I haven't encountered any 12ax7 cleartop.  I might be wrong though.

I checked the tube and it is labeled 5751.  Got it from tyrone and he told me it was somewhat rare. :)

Offline alexg

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #7 on: Apr 02, 2007 at 10:31 PM »
I checked the tube and it is labeled 5751.  Got it from tyrone and he told me it was somewhat rare. :)

Which 5751 is that with the cleartop?

I read somewhere (I think audioasylum) that of all the 12ax7 family, the 5751 is the best sounding. On my AudioSpace 8i, the three mica 5751 (RCA and Sylvania) sounds best and the two mica GE with extra support rod.

For 12au7, the tungsols, cleartops and the Jan Philips 5963 sounds good (ask Oweidah about the 5963) and of course the GE 6189 is good too.

I went fishing the other day, and I caught a BIG ONE!

Offline butchoy8701

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #8 on: Apr 03, 2007 at 08:36 AM »
Which 5751 is that with the cleartop?

I read somewhere (I think audioasylum) that of all the 12ax7 family, the 5751 is the best sounding. On my AudioSpace 8i, the three mica 5751 (RCA and Sylvania) sounds best and the two mica GE with extra support rod.

For 12au7, the tungsols, cleartops and the Jan Philips 5963 sounds good (ask Oweidah about the 5963) and of course the GE 6189 is good too.



Yes, 5751 with a cleartop.. :) 

Andrew,

     Where did you get your tungsol 6550 power tubes? i'd also like to have a set of those... ;D

Offline Le_Stat

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #9 on: Apr 03, 2007 at 10:32 AM »
Yes, 5751 with a cleartop.. :) 

Andrew,

     Where did you get your tungsol 6550 power tubes? i'd also like to have a set of those... ;D

Now I remember.  Yes, ive seen this 5751 rca cleartop but did not get it.  I dunno why, maybe im contented na with the triple mica.

I got my 6550 Tungsols USA with metal base from a friend.  Prices for a quad of these is close to USD$1k.  I got 7 pieces and searching for 1 more to have 2 quads.
« Last Edit: Apr 03, 2007 at 10:33 AM by Le_Stat »
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Offline oweidah

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #10 on: Apr 03, 2007 at 11:55 AM »
Thanks guys for your inputs... ;D



I personally like the RCA NOS 12ax7 cleartops for its warm sound, i immediately noticed this when i replaced my stock 12ax7eh.  You guys are great, i'm learning so much from you.


rare 12ax7/5751 cleartops!
common knowledge pag sinabi cleartops - rca 12au7a cleartop / side getter.

yeah how about some feedback re: rectifier 5ar4 5u4g 5y3 5r4 etc / regulator od3 o1a etc tubes?

Offline Le_Stat

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #11 on: Apr 05, 2007 at 03:53 PM »
Recent Audition:

5751 Raytheon Blackplate with windmill getter - ooh la la!  smooth and warm and a little laid back than the RCA.  Combine this with 5814 raytheon and you'd get to sleep sa sobrang relaxing especially on Triode mode.
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Offline alexg

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #12 on: Apr 05, 2007 at 04:30 PM »
Recent Audition:

5751 Raytheon Blackplate with windmill getter - ooh la la!  smooth and warm and a little laid back than the RCA.  Combine this with 5814 raytheon and you'd get to sleep sa sobrang relaxing especially on Triode mode.

Those Raytheon with windmill getter are supposed to be excellent.

Unfortunately on my Audio Space 8i, it was very good but did not beat the GE triple mica. Maybe, it needs to have a better power tubes.
I went fishing the other day, and I caught a BIG ONE!

Offline Le_Stat

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #13 on: Apr 05, 2007 at 05:24 PM »
Those Raytheon with windmill getter are supposed to be excellent.

Unfortunately on my Audio Space 8i, it was very good but did not beat the GE triple mica. Maybe, it needs to have a better power tubes.

yes dapat tama combo.  I just tried both Raytheon 5751(12ax7)  and 5814(12au7) out of curiosity, both with windmill getters and I was blown away.   Kapag 5751 RCA triple mica and 5814 na Raytheon, too detailed and analytical for me. 
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Offline oweidah

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #14 on: Apr 05, 2007 at 08:04 PM »
sayang binitawan na namin ni linn yung mga raytheon 5751 windmills  :( hmmm buti na lang may amperex at rca 12ax7 pa! teka 12au7 nga pala preamp ko ??? ;D

anyways, its all about matching tubes with the gears. ;D

Offline butchoy8701

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #15 on: Apr 06, 2007 at 12:18 AM »
yes dapat tama combo.  I just tried both Raytheon 5751(12ax7)  and 5814(12au7) out of curiosity, both with windmill getters and I was blown away.   Kapag 5751 RCA triple mica and 5814 na Raytheon, too detailed and analytical for me. 

What do you mean when you say too detailed and analytical?

Offline Le_Stat

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #16 on: Apr 06, 2007 at 01:11 AM »
What do you mean when you say too detailed and analytical?

@butchoy- "Matalas" sa tenga and "in your face na sound".

@Oweidah - pre, txt me kapag meron kang spare 1 pc 12au7 na Amperex.  Kulang ng pakner 1 pc ko.  Pati narin 1 pc 5751 rca blackplate triple mica with silver fastener (yung kaytagal tagal na walang pakner).  Eto yun super rare na tube kasi halos lahat ng rca dito eh walang silver fastener sa pangalawang mica (before the third).
« Last Edit: Apr 06, 2007 at 01:14 AM by Le_Stat »
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Offline oweidah

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #17 on: Apr 06, 2007 at 03:30 PM »
Oweidah - pre, txt me kapag meron kang spare 1 pc 12au7 na Amperex.  Kulang ng pakner 1 pc ko.  Pati narin 1 pc 5751 rca blackplate triple mica with silver fastener (yung kaytagal tagal na walang pakner).  Eto yun super rare na tube kasi halos lahat ng rca dito eh walang silver fastener sa pangalawang mica (before the third).

k no problem. for now HP made by amperex 12ax7 lang spare ko. paki post pic ng rca5751 i'll compare sa rca5751 & unknown 3M/BP's.

Offline Superman

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #18 on: Apr 06, 2007 at 06:03 PM »
@butchoy- "Matalas" sa tenga and "in your face na sound".

@Oweidah - pre, txt me kapag meron kang spare 1 pc 12au7 na Amperex.  Kulang ng pakner 1 pc ko.  Pati narin 1 pc 5751 rca blackplate triple mica with silver fastener (yung kaytagal tagal na walang pakner).  Eto yun super rare na tube kasi halos lahat ng rca dito eh walang silver fastener sa pangalawang mica (before the third).

pssst, meron ako niyan...tsaka yung RCA command series :D :D :D
Fyne|EAR|Hana|Technics|SAEC|Wiim|Western Electric|Audiolab|Acrolink|Oyaide|Oppo|Tellurium

Offline Superman

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #19 on: Apr 06, 2007 at 06:05 PM »
who has HP 6DJ8/6922? Need just 1piece, thanks! :D
Fyne|EAR|Hana|Technics|SAEC|Wiim|Western Electric|Audiolab|Acrolink|Oyaide|Oppo|Tellurium

Offline oweidah

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #20 on: Apr 06, 2007 at 07:12 PM »
who has HP 6DJ8/6922? Need just 1piece, thanks! :D

hp by sylvannia or hp by amperex? ::)

Offline butchoy8701

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Re: GENERAL OBSERVATION on NOS vintage type tubes
« Reply #21 on: Apr 22, 2007 at 06:23 PM »
Guys,

      What do you think about the re-issued tubes such as the Genalex Gold Lion KT88? are they as good as the original? they say that is has been manufactured to the very detailed of the original. :)