Author Topic: My dream theater  (Read 417338 times)

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Offline streetsmart

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Velodyne SMS-1
« Reply #270 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 12:06 PM »
Again, there was a distinct improvement in the bass but it wasn’t good enough. My next step was to buy a Velodyne SMS-1.





This is basically an 8-band parametric equalizer for the subwoofer, but it also has a Real-Time Analyzer (RTA), which is a sine-wave sweep from 15 hz to 200 hz. You can see the db levels of all frequencies between those points, and so you can see the peaks and the dips. In addition, you can adjust the LPF, the subsonic filter, the polarity (infinitely variable), etc. It can be complicated to use but essentially, the steps are as follows:

1.   You use the RTA to have the smallest dip, while varying speaker position and polarity.
2.   Use the equalizer to flatten the curve, mainly through taming the peaks, while minimizing the boost of dips (because this can introduce distortion).

I took the following screenshot of the SMS-1 RTA from the web. It’s not my actual RTA, but its not that different.



The next problems was how to integrate the SMS-1 with Audyssey, and after some posts on the Audyssey thread at AVS Forum, I did the following:

1.   Run SMS-1 first after which you run Audyssey.
2.   Check out the RTA after Audyssey and do some final fine-tuning, if necessary.
« Last Edit: Mar 17, 2008 at 12:08 PM by streetsmart »
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline streetsmart

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Second sub
« Reply #271 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 12:07 PM »
Still, the bass wasn’t good enough and I started to have doubts about my subwoofer, which is a huge Velodyne HGS-15, with 1250 watts RMS and can go down to 15 hz. I thought this was big but after some posts on the Velodyne thread at AVS Forum, I was advised to have 2 Velodyne DD-18’s, each of which costs around $4500! This was because my room volume is around 7000 cubic feet, which is 2 to 3 times more than most HT’s.

I didn’t want to get another Velodyne because of its steep cost, which didn’t seem to be worth it so I did some research and finally chose a Paradigm Servo-15 v2. The reason for this was the following:

1.   Both are 15 inchers.
2.   Both are sealed subs, as opposed to ported subs, which have a different sound signature.
3.   The Velodyne amp is 1250 watts RMS while the Paradigm amp is 1300 watts RMS.
4.   Both can go below 20 hz.
5.   They are physically alike, in size and weight (both weigh about 100 pounds).
6.   I got a good deal for the Paradigm (thanks to Alvin).



The next problem was how to integrate the 2 subs. The procedure was more or less as follows:

1.   General position. We first tried putting one sub in front and the other at the rear. The problem is that the distances to the main listening position are so different and the sound was pretty bad. We then put both subs in front and the sound was much better.
2.   Fine-tuning position. We used the SMS-1 to determine the optimum positions of the 2 subs. Even a few inches can make a big difference.
3.   Fine-tune phase. The Paradigm has a continuously variable phase control and using the SMS-1, we determined the optimum setting for the flattest response.
4.   Relative volumes. We set the volumes on the subs so that they had equal outputs at the main listening position.
5.   We ran SMS-1 and then Audyssey to EQ the subs.

The result is nearly perfect. It is like night and day.

The cannons in “Master and Commander” are incredible. The French and British cannons have different sound signatures.

The bass guitar of Santana’s “Jingo” is incredibly loud and it is accompanied by maybe 10 different types of drums. You can hear each instrument distinctly.

There is a sequence in Cream’s “Stormy Monday” when the bass guitarist plays a scale of bass notes from lowest to highest. Each note is distinct and has the same volume.

The lighting strikes in “War of the Worlds” produces a huge deep rumble which is clear and undistorted.

I can now “feel” the bass.

I am pretty happy now. Fine-tuning na lang muna. Till the next SARS outbreak.  ;D ;D
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Offline threadlock

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #272 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 12:51 PM »
bro, where did you buy the Velodyne SMS-1? Is it available locally?
With too many options you could end up not choosing one

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #273 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 12:57 PM »
bro, where did you buy the Velodyne SMS-1? Is it available locally?


Not available locally. Got it through Amazon and then JAC.
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Offline dts-HD 3D

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #274 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 01:43 PM »
Congrats on your new sub sir mark. whew! another 15 incher . . .

will also try your settings sa 12r ko baka may improvement din, ngayon kasi naka 'LFE+Main' ako.

Thanks sa guide. :)

Offline Munskie

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #275 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 02:13 PM »
Mark,

The sms-1 is really essential in fine-tuning and subwoofer management.  Congrats on this acquisition, pati na rin sa Paradigm mo.   The last series of posts you made are really helpful to me, and for other members...lalu na sa sub management.   Thanks and congrats sir!!  :)

   

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #276 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 02:33 PM »
Congrats on your new sub sir mark. whew! another 15 incher . . .

will also try your settings sa 12r ko baka may improvement din, ngayon kasi naka 'LFE+Main' ako.

Thanks sa guide. :)

When you look at the subs of Mike C, parang sobrang liit ang subs ko.  ;D

Try mo nga ung "LFE" lang. Nakakalito kasi ang manual. Very hard to understand but once you understand, then you realize that normally, dapat talaga "LFE" lang. Nonetheless, subukan mo lang.

Mark,

The sms-1 is really essential in fine-tuning and subwoofer management.  Congrats on this acquisition, pati na rin sa Paradigm mo.   The last series of posts you made are really helpful to me, and for other members...lalu na sa sub management.   Thanks and congrats sir!!  :)

  

The whole idea is to help. Ang hirap to research by yourself.  :)
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Offline Munskie

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #277 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 03:59 PM »

Try mo nga ung "LFE" lang. Nakakalito kasi ang manual. Very hard to understand but once you understand, then you realize that normally, dapat talaga "LFE" lang. Nonetheless, subukan mo lang.

I have tried the LFE+Main option, it was not good for my taste.   Halo halo ang labas ng bass.   Im using the LFE only option... ;)

Offline dts-HD 3D

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #278 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 04:03 PM »
When you look at the subs of Mike C, parang sobrang liit ang subs ko.  ;D

Try mo nga ung "LFE" lang. Nakakalito kasi ang manual. Very hard to understand but once you understand, then you realize that normally, dapat talaga "LFE" lang. Nonetheless, subukan mo lang.

It depends pa din siguro sa room size. In your case, it looks like you're happy na w/ your 2 - 15" just like I do sa 1 - 12" 15sqm. lang naman kasi ht room ko. :)

Ok, will try this week. Actually, I already tried setting it w/ 'LFE only' nanghinayang lang ako sa sub ng FS ko hehe . . . kaya binalik ko uli sa L/R+LFE. But this time I'll try it w/ your x'over & sub volume settings.

Quote
The whole idea is to help. Ang hirap to research by yourself.  :)

sinabi mo sir! and its time consuming . . . buti na lang madami mabait d2 sa pdvd.  ;D

Offline dts-HD 3D

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #279 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 04:07 PM »
I have tried the LFE+Main option, it was not good for my taste.   Halo halo ang labas ng bass.   Im using the LFE only option... ;)

hmm, mag-iiba na siguro talaga ako ng setting ng sub  :D . . . 'LFE only' here I come.

Offline ricky

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #280 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 04:24 PM »
I have tried the LFE+Main option, it was not good for my taste.   Halo halo ang labas ng bass.   Im using the LFE only option... ;)

Me too, and xover at 100hz for me is the best :)

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #281 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 04:46 PM »
It depends pa din siguro sa room size. In your case, it looks like you're happy na w/ your 2 - 15" just like I do sa 1 - 12" 15sqm. lang naman kasi ht room ko. :)

Ok, will try this week. Actually, I already tried setting it w/ 'LFE only' nanghinayang lang ako sa sub ng FS ko hehe . . . kaya binalik ko uli sa L/R+LFE. But this time I'll try it w/ your x'over & sub volume settings.



Kung gusto mo, para di naman sayang ang sub ng FS mo, gawin mo siya "Small" pero babaan mo ang crossover. Try it at 60 hz or even 40 hz. But definitely, the dedicated sub should handle anything below 40 hz. Ang FS ko nga is rated down to 35 hz pero set ko crossover at 60 hz. For a 15 sq meter room, kayang kaya ng 12" sub.

By the way, ano FS mo? May built-in sub talaga?
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Offline mike c

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #282 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 05:09 PM »
good decision on the servo15.  bagay nga yan sa HGS15 mo.   ;)
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #283 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 05:23 PM »
good decision on the servo15.  bagay nga yan sa HGS15 mo.   ;)


Thanks, Mike. Actually, you were the one that made me seriously think about getting a sub which is very similar to the HGS-15.  :)

Parang kapatid nga sila but they sound different din of course. Based on maybe 2 hours listening to the Paradigm alone, it seems a bit rough and less accurate in the 40 to 50 hz region. On the other hand, it can go deeper and have higher volumes than the Velo. But when you put the 2 together, they sound really great.
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline dieselsy

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #284 on: Mar 17, 2008 at 06:06 PM »
nice set up and ht! ang laki ... how much ba membership dyan hehe?
hope il hv the chance to listen and join the next session...
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Offline charlie 669

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #285 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 12:57 AM »
Ganda set up. . . ingit nanaman ako. :D

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #286 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 07:30 AM »
nice set up and ht! ang laki ... how much ba membership dyan hehe?
hope il hv the chance to listen and join the next session...

Thanks!  :)

Next session is Munskie! Lechon!  ;D

Pagkatapos ay ang HT ng friend ko sa Sta Rosa. Sony VPL-VW60, JMLab speakers and fantastic acoustic treatment.  :)

After that is ang dambuhalang speakers ... ikaw!  ;D

And then ang may bagong pj at audio calibration set-up ... si Alvin!  ;D

Pagkatapos lang nun ay ang HT ko.  ;D

Ganda set up. . . ingit nanaman ako. :D

Thanks!  :)
« Last Edit: Mar 18, 2008 at 07:31 AM by streetsmart »
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Offline Munskie

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #287 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 07:35 AM »

Next session is Munskie! Lechon!  ;D

  Lets do it this April.   After ng calibration ni Alvin.   I know medyo discriminating tayong mga members kaya dapat the gears should perform at their best.... ;D ;D

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #288 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 07:39 AM »
  Lets do it this April.   After ng calibration ni Alvin.   I know medyo discriminating tayong mga members kaya dapat the gears should perform at their best.... ;D ;D

Yup. Good idea. Set ka na ng date!  :)
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline ricky

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #289 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 10:11 AM »
  Lets do it this April.   After ng calibration ni Alvin.   I know medyo discriminating tayong mga members kaya dapat the gears should perform at their best.... ;D ;D

Pare kahit hindi well calibrated kasi yung LECHON BAKA naman ang Irereview namin ;D joke

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #290 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 10:18 AM »
Pare kahit hindi well calibrated kasi yung LECHON BAKA naman ang Irereview namin ;D joke

OT ka!!  ;D ;D
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Offline ricky

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #291 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 10:22 AM »
OT ka!!  ;D ;D

Hindi ah, dito talaga yun topic na yun ;D joke lang Sir yung baka, kahit liempo pwede na, magkita-kita lang tayo ;) ;D

Offline MAtZTER

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #292 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 10:52 AM »
Hehehe

LECHON BAKA!!!  :D ;D

Offline ricky

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #293 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 11:05 AM »
Liempo ng Baka :o ;D

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #294 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 11:52 AM »
Unfair yata ito ... ganging up!  ;D ;D

Chicharon na lang.  ;)
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Offline Munskie

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #295 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 12:31 PM »
Ayos talaga mambuyo ah  ;D ;D......basta masaya...set natin April 17 or 24.......

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #296 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 12:56 PM »
Sige. Sabihin mo na lang ilan ang darating para alam ko kung ilang supot ng chicharon ang dadalhin ko.  ;D
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Offline dts-HD 3D

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #297 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 03:16 PM »
Quote
Kung gusto mo, para di naman sayang ang sub ng FS mo, gawin mo siya "Small" pero babaan mo ang crossover. Try it at 60 hz or even 40 hz. But definitely, the dedicated sub should handle anything below 40 hz. Ang FS ko nga is rated down to 35 hz pero set ko crossover at 60 hz. For a 15 sq meter room, kayang kaya ng 12" sub.

By the way, ano FS mo? May built-in sub talaga?

Yep, nabawasan nga pagka-boomy at nag-extend pa yung highs. Ok, laruin ko uli mamya x'over sir mark. Thanks!

I mean, 2 - 6.5" woofers yung sa Infinity Primus360 ko entry-level lang but I just set it to large pag nagtitipid sa kuryente para dna gumamit ng sub sa 2-channel pag gusto ko makining ng music. :)

lechon baka! ehe . . . chicharon! chicharon!  ;D

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #298 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 03:27 PM »
Yep, nabawasan nga pagka-boomy at nag-extend pa yung highs. Ok, laruin ko uli mamya x'over sir mark. Thanks!

I mean, 2 - 6.5" woofers yung sa Infinity Primus360 ko entry-level lang but I just set it to large pag nagtitipid sa kuryente para dna gumamit ng sub sa 2-channel pag gusto ko makining ng music. :)

lechon baka! ehe . . . chicharon! chicharon!  ;D

Kung 6.5" lang ang woofers, palagay ko better to set xover at 80 hz, maybe even 100 hz.

Hoy, wag ka gumaya kay Matzter at ricky na naganganchaw! Bad influence ang mga yun!  ;D
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline dts-HD 3D

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Re: My dream theater (March 08 upgrade)
« Reply #299 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 06:53 PM »
got it, tnx!

ay hehe . . . kaya nga chicharon na lang sir eh . . . lam mo naman idol kita :D  ;D