Topic: A-AUDIO Speaker Creations!!!

[Invinciible]

You're using your laptop as a source ba? If so, then you might need a DAC to improve things considerably as discussed here:

http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php?topic=40823.1410

i agree totally. the leaps my system made playing flac files after i inserted a superpro dac 707 dac and good interconnects were unbelievable.  i kid you not.

[iiinas]

i agree totally. the leaps my system made playing flac files after i inserted a superpro dac 707 dac and good interconnects were unbelievable.  i kid you not.

Night and day ba sir? To think flac files na ang gamit m? How about compressed wma and mp3?

[Stark3]

You're using your laptop as a source ba? If so, then you might need a DAC to improve things considerably as discussed here:

http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php?topic=40823.1410

Hmm ... at home, I'm using the DAC of my Audigy2 sound card. It has a noticeable sound quality difference over the onboard USB DAC of the Dared, though now I think about it using the USB DAC did provide a "blacker" background.

I guess getting an outboard DAC is the right track then ... Ang tanong na lang, aling DAC! Naku, nararamdaman ko na ang SARS ....

[Stark3]

Night and day ba sir? To think flac files na ang gamit m? How about compressed wma and mp3?

Well, kung sa onboard sound iku-kumpara, malamang night and day difference nga. I'd imagine na mas "full" yung sound nya, with more details. I'm basing my comment on the Dared's USB DAC vs onboard sound of my laptop. AFAIK, mas maganda pa ang ibang DACs like the SuperPro, etc kesa andun sa Dared, so mas dramatic pa siguro ang difference na makikita.

[Invinciible]

Night and day ba sir? To think flac files na ang gamit m? How about compressed wma and mp3?

it really is pretty dramatic sir... it sounds like hyperbole, i know. but really, anlaki ng difference. may nadadagdag na details.  i guess the best way of putting it is your lossless files' integrity would be better translated with minimal loss through this rather than the soundcard.  my bestfriend dropped by the first time i installed the clones, sabi nya "pwede na"... i was still using my laptop's soundcard then.  when he dropped by later in the week, i had already installed my superpro. sabi nya "yan ang tunog dapat ng fronts!" hehehe... afterwards i also tuned the sub fronts integration as best as i could, and pseudo -bi-amped the fronts, lalong gumanda pa.  macdon said it best, the fronts refect your system's fidelity as a whole...

regarding mp3's, we played flacs first, tapos mp3's after.  the compressed mp3's sounded flat compared.  Sabi nga ng bestfriend ko, "yung flac and apple lossless, talagang ramdam mo yung details papunta sayo sa listening position."  di lang kasi sa mas "full" ang sound as a whole. andun pa rin ang clarity of highs against the mids against the lows and vice versa. discreet kumbaga.  "Texture" might be a good way of calling it.

[Invinciible]

Hmm ... at home, I'm using the DAC of my Audigy2 sound card. It has a noticeable sound quality difference over the onboard USB DAC of the Dared, though now I think about it using the USB DAC did provide a "blacker" background.

I guess getting an outboard DAC is the right track then ... Ang tanong na lang, aling DAC! Naku, nararamdaman ko na ang SARS ....

mura lang yung superpro sir... ang alam ko may available na soon sina sir tamy.

of course your dared has the tube effect also, you have to take that into consideration...

[Stark3]

mura lang yung superpro sir... ang alam ko may available na soon sina sir tamy.

of course your dared has the tube effect also, you have to take that into consideration...

Hehehe. Yeah, the SuperPro is already in my short list of DACs being considered. Yun lang, maganda rin yung nababasa ko dun sa V-DAC ng Musical Fidelity. Meron din pwedeng mapagipunan siguro na Sigma II DAC sa marketplace. Dami pa pinagiisipan ...

[Invinciible]

Hehehe. Yeah, the SuperPro is already in my short list of DACs being considered. Yun lang, maganda rin yung nababasa ko dun sa V-DAC ng Musical Fidelity. Meron din pwedeng mapagipunan siguro na Sigma II DAC sa marketplace. Dami pa pinagiisipan ...

all very worthy choices sir.   though i can only comment on the superpro dac 707 if experience will be the basis.

[macdon]

UPDATE


August 13-16, "Inventor's Expo" Megamall bldg A.
Anthony will be showcasing his products like Hyper Torque fuel saver, LED lights, hybrid hydrogen for cars and of course the A-Audio speakers.
A pair of his tritower speakers would provide the ambiance music for the whole expo He will also bring the popular proac clones.

So to those who can swing by on any of those 4 days and would like to audition the clones or the tritower, then here's your opportunity


SPECIAL UPDATE

Due to some recent discoveries, Anthony would like to announce a revamp on the crossover design that would affect both the Proac D2 (large bookshelf) and the Proac 2.5 floorstander clones. The new discovery contains almost double the parts of his previous crossover design and is more faithful to the actual/original proac crossover used on those 2 models.

If any of you had a chance to listen to his previous Proac D2 clones as well as to the special Proac 2.5 floorstander, this new crossover design is definitely a HUGE improvement!
You'll be blown away by the sonics!

[Stark3]

UPDATE


August 13-16, "Inventor's Expo" Megamall bldg A.
Anthony will be showcasing his products like Hyper Torque fuel saver, LED lights, hybrid hydrogen for cars and of course the A-Audio speakers.
A pair of his tritower speakers would provide the ambiance music for the whole expo He will also bring the popular proac clones.

So to those who can swing by on any of those 4 days and would like to audition the clones or the tritower, then here's your opportunity


*snip*

Nice! Sa totoo lang, curious ako dun sa mga naririnig ko dun sa proac D2s and 2.5 floorstanders. Perfect chance nga para marinig sila.

Kakatapos pa pati ng sweldo... Hahahaha. I-kandado ko muna kaya wallet ko bago pumunta.

[macx]

UPDATE

SPECIAL UPDATE

Due to some recent discoveries, Anthony would like to announce a revamp on the crossover design that would affect both the Proac D2 (large bookshelf) and the Proac 2.5 floorstander clones. The new discovery contains almost double the parts of his previous crossover design and is more faithful to the actual/original proac crossover used on those 2 models.

If any of you had a chance to listen to his previous Proac D2 clones as well as to the special Proac 2.5 floorstander, this new crossover design is definitely a HUGE improvement!
You'll be blown away by the sonics!

When was the new crossover design implemented?

[j0hans0n]

UPDATE


August 13-16, "Inventor's Expo" Megamall bldg A.
Anthony will be showcasing his products like Hyper Torque fuel saver, LED lights, hybrid hydrogen for cars and of course the A-Audio speakers.
A pair of his tritower speakers would provide the ambiance music for the whole expo He will also bring the popular proac clones.

So to those who can swing by on any of those 4 days and would like to audition the clones or the tritower, then here's your opportunity


SPECIAL UPDATE

Due to some recent discoveries, Anthony would like to announce a revamp on the crossover design that would affect both the Proac D2 (large bookshelf) and the Proac 2.5 floorstander clones. The new discovery contains almost double the parts of his previous crossover design and is more faithful to the actual/original proac crossover used on those 2 models.

If any of you had a chance to listen to his previous Proac D2 clones as well as to the special Proac 2.5 floorstander, this new crossover design is definitely a HUGE improvement!
You'll be blown away by the sonics!

sir,
are the proac d2 bookshelf speakers? so basically i could test out sir anthony's bookshelf speaks to hear proac d2 which you were recommending to me.

thanks

[macdon]

Nice! Sa totoo lang, curious ako dun sa mga naririnig ko dun sa proac D2s and 2.5 floorstanders. Perfect chance nga para marinig sila.

Kakatapos pa pati ng sweldo... Hahahaha. I-kandado ko muna kaya wallet ko bago pumunta.

Pls take note that both the proac D2 clone & the new proac 2.5 clone wont be included in Megamall since Anthony could only bring so much. The D2 & 2.5 could only be auditioned in his lair in lower Bicutan, Taguig.
Kindly call him for availability & sched.

When was the new crossover design implemented?

It has not been implemented yet.
My upcoming proac 2.5 would have the new prototype crossover so we can evaluate it more.......however, Anthony seems very ecstatic with the new discovery & will most likely implement the new xovers in orders starting today.

sir,
are the proac d2 bookshelf speakers? so basically i could test out sir anthony's bookshelf speaks to hear proac d2 which you were recommending to me.

thanks

Yes, the Proac D2 clone is a larger bookshelf speaker - about 18" height ata. If anyone cant decide between a bookshelf or floorstander, this would be a good compromise.

FYI - the proac clones bookshelf & the tritower floorstander uses 5" oem drivers, while the D2 & 2.5 uses 6.5" oem drivers.

[Stark3]

Ahhhh .... ok, will do.

Pahabol pala na tanong ... kung naka bi-wire setup ba, may maririnig pa rin ba na improvement dun sa new crossover design? Baka mali ang pagkakaintindi ko, pero kung naka biwire ka bypass mo na rin yung internal na passive crossover network between LF and HF indi ba? 

[Nelson de Leon]

Tara sarge, punta tayo sa exhibit.

Sayang naman, di inabot ng new crossover design ang floorstanders ko...!

[macdon]

Ahhhh .... ok, will do.

Pahabol pala na tanong ... kung naka bi-wire setup ba, may maririnig pa rin ba na improvement dun sa new crossover design? Baka mali ang pagkakaintindi ko, pero kung naka biwire ka bypass mo na rin yung internal na passive crossover network between LF and HF indi ba? 

Bi-wiring has always been a debatable subject - some say it works while others say it is useless. However, saying that biwiring would intefere with the operation of the crossover however is incorrect. The signal would go through exactly the same crossover components regardless of any bi-wiring (or even bi-amping). If it didn't you would get bass frequencies sent to the tweeter and high frequencies sent to the woofer. In general the only time you would negate a crossover inside a speaker is when you wanted to actively bi-amp it and in this case you'd have to physically remove/bypass some of the crossover components.

I found this on the net:


*What is bi-wiring?

"Bi-wiring is where the crossover inside the speaker has been separated into it's HF and LF sections, and separate pairs of connecting terminals provided to access those separate sections independently. Normally, the LF and HF crossover sections are in parallel, connected internally to the same single pair of binding posts. For single cable use, a set of jumpers is provided to bridge the terminal pairs, paralleling the separated crossover sections outside the cabinet instead of inside."

"Then, separate speaker cables are run from the same amp output to these separated pairs of terminals at the speaker."

*What good does bi-wiring do?

"Some say that any improvement in the sound it makes is strictly due to the decreased total DCR, and this makes the speaker less prone to frequency response variations due to cable resistance. According to this view, simply running the two cables in parallel at both ends will do the same thing. In my opinion, this is a very simplistic and incomplete way of looking at the situation."

"Once the crossovers have been electrically separated, they present different impedances (loads) to the power amp within their passbands and outside of their passbands. The woofer and corresponding low frequency crossover section will present a low impedance at low frequencies and a high impedance at HF, while the tweeter section will present a low impedance at high frequencies, and high one at LF's. "

"With the electrical separation, differing currents will flow within the two cables that make up a bi-wire set. For the separate cable feeding the woofer section, a lot of current will flow at LF's but not much current at HF's, and the tweeter cable will have some current flow at HF, but very little at LF's. A division of labor has occured with bi-wiring, whereby a single cable does not have have to carry the HF currents simultaneuously with the LF current."

"Two things happen due to this:

1. The losses in the cable due to "eye-squared-are" losses (current squared time the resistance equals voltage drop) are reduced for each frequency band, so that any tendency for the woofer to modulate the tweeter due to current draw is greatly reduced. This form of IM would be in lock-step with the original signal.

2. The magnetic fields due to the HF and LF currents have also been separated out, and any tendency for them to intermodulate and cause sonic artifacts has been greatly reduced. This form of IM would be occuring both at the same time, and in a time delayed form due to mechanical resonances and motor/generator action.

See http://members.xoom.com/Jon_Risch/page7.htm for a more in depth discussion about the benefits of bi-wiring."

*Can I use the A and B outputs on my receiver to bi-wire?

"While this would be very convenient, it can only be done if the outputs are placed in parallel, rather than series. Many receivers and integrated amps that have two speaker outputs will connect them in series when they are both selected at the same time, to protect the amplifier from an excessively low impedance. Check your owners manual to see how the A and B output are wired when they are both selected. A simple test would be to select them both with a speaker only hooked up normally to one of them, if the sound goes dead, then they are connected in series, and you will need to connect both of the bi-wire cables to one pair of output terminals."

*Should both cables be the same kind?

"This is not absolutely necessary, although it can be argued that certain sensitive speakers need the same exact cable in order to minimize any discontinuities in the midrange (crossover region). However, as long as both cables are of a high quality, this is much less of a problem than it might seem. An extreme example would be to use heavy gauge zip cord for the woofer, and an exotic high performance cable for the highs. Some audiophiles have used this approach to great effect, and others found the zip cord on the woofer holding them back. It never hurts to try, and see how well a particular pairing will work for you."

*Should both cables be the same length?

"This has already been answered above, but many people seem to feel that bi-wiring is even more critical, so the warnings in the answer above about matching length for electrical reasons are perhaps even more relevant."

*Are the bi-wire cables that are all in one jacket as good as separate cables?

"Many cable manufacturer's offer an all-in-one bi-wire cable, primarily for convenience and a tidier wiring arrangement. If you read the explanation of how bi-wiring works, then you would realize that placing the cable's magnetic fields in close proximity within the same cable jacket may compromise the bi-wiring advantage to some degree. Most experienced audiophiles agree, totally physically separated bi-wire cables tend to sound better than those in a common jacket. The degree of compromise is going to depend on the spacing between the bi-wire sections within the common jacket, and how much magnetic coupling and motor/generator resonances are going on inside the common cable jacket."



Para sa akin, I bi-wire all my speakers as I feel that there is a slight improvement in the performance of both the tweeter & woofer. Also, since the speaker manufacturer have integrated it in their speaker design, I just want to optimize it.

[macdon]

Tara sarge, punta tayo sa exhibit.

Sayang naman, di inabot ng new crossover design ang floorstanders ko...!

Bossing - custom 3-way ata yung pinagawa mo diba?

Actually, the new discovery only applies to the 2-way proac clones using the 6.5" drivers - infact, this is not needed in the proac clones using the 5" drivers.

[j0hans0n]

Bossing - custom 3-way ata yung pinagawa mo diba?

Actually, the new discovery only applies to the 2-way proac clones using the 6.5" drivers - infact, this is not needed in the proac clones using the 5" drivers.

sir macdon,

so bi-wiring is like having a dedicated amplifier channel for each driver. so let's say, a pair of speakers have two tweeters and two midbasses, so thus there are 4 drivers. bale 4 channels of power from the amplifier is going to feed the stereo setup? if ever that's the case, it's similar to my car's setup.

thanks

[Stark3]

*What is bi-wiring?

"Bi-wiring is where the crossover inside the speaker has been separated into it's HF and LF sections, and separate pairs of connecting terminals provided to access those separate sections independently. Normally, the LF and HF crossover sections are in parallel, connected internally to the same single pair of binding posts. For single cable use, a set of jumpers is provided to bridge the terminal pairs, paralleling the separated crossover sections outside the cabinet instead of inside."

Hmmm ... interesting. So it implies that crossovers have other functions aside from just splitting a signal into separate LF / HF bands. Thanks for the informative post

[macx]

It has not been implemented yet.
My upcoming proac 2.5 would have the new prototype crossover so we can evaluate it more.......however, Anthony seems very ecstatic with the new discovery & will most likely implement the new xovers in orders starting today.

Darn, di umabot yung 2.5s ko sa new design  :'(

[macdon]

Darn, di umabot yung 2.5s ko sa new design  :'(

Sir Macx - kayo po ba yung tga Davao? Your proac 2.5 already sports the new crossover design - I verified this from Anthony today lang

Kahapon lang po ata kinuha ng courier yung speaker nyo.

[leonzki]

Sir/Bros.

Ano ba ng difference ng 2 way speaker at 3 way? Alin ang mas maganda?

Thanks!

[macdon]

Sir/Bros.

Ano ba ng difference ng 2 way speaker at 3 way? Alin ang mas maganda?

Thanks!

2- way is when you only use 2 drivers - normally a tweeter and a midwoofer, wherein the midwoofer does double duties of midrange and woofer.
3-way is when you have 3 drivers - a tweeter, a midrange and a woofer.

3-ways are suppose to be better as each driver plays their specific frequencies more comfortably, however there are also 2-ways that sounds just as good or better than 3-ways.
Its all in the design of the enclosure, crossover & of course the selection of the drivers themselves

sir macdon,

so bi-wiring is like having a dedicated amplifier channel for each driver. so let's say, a pair of speakers have two tweeters and two midbasses, so thus there are 4 drivers. bale 4 channels of power from the amplifier is going to feed the stereo setup? if ever that's the case, it's similar to my car's setup.

thanks

Actually sir, I think what you're saying is bi-amping - wherein 1ch amplifies 1 driver.  

[Invinciible]

from what i gathered from research, true bi-amping also involves two crossovers, to make sure that you are only sending the highs and mids together through one wire, and the lows only through the other...

[macdon]

UPDATE

Since wala daw mapagpapatungan ang mga proac clones in Megamall - Anthony will bring a pair of 2.5 FS speakers para gawing patungan ng clones

So, to those who wanna audition the 2.5 would now have a chance   

[j0hans0n]

2- way is when you only use 2 drivers - normally a tweeter and a midwoofer, wherein the midwoofer does double duties of midrange and woofer.
3-way is when you have 3 drivers - a tweeter, a midrange and a woofer.

3-ways are suppose to be better as each driver plays their specific frequencies more comfortably, however there are also 2-ways that sounds just as good or better than 3-ways.
Its all in the design of the enclosure, crossover & of course the selection of the drivers themselves

Actually sir, I think what you're saying is bi-amping - wherein 1ch amplifies 1 driver.  

Just to enlighten my mind, hmm.. with bi-wiring, even though the internal crossover networks are separated like a pcb having HF-Tweeter components and another one for the LF-Midwoofer, only one channel feeds one bookshelf speaker?
unlike the usual crossover is HFandLF is both on one lane, pero sa bi-wire two lanes lang?

thanks..

and another clarification..
D2 - bookshelf?
D2.5 - floorstander?

[macdon]

A Night with The DIY Master Anthony


Eto na sa wakas - ang delivery ng aking mga bagong laruan!  

Masked Proac 2.5 clone



For auditioning purposes - 100k Sony cdp  



Testing a Pioneer integrated amp - one of the gears left by my brother

 

Unmasked!



The DIY Master himself doing critical listening on his Proac 2.5 - this is where the best DIY speaker gets mated with the best DIY tube preamp - the Aikido by Master Jojod. The combination of the two is breathtaking!  



Bi-wire all the way!  



This is probably the best FS speaker ever done by the DIY Master! Pure sex!  



Singing beautifully and bringing both DIY Master Anthony & I to heavenly heights! Marvelous!



The DIY Master and his creations  - abangan nyo ang billboard na ito sa EDSA  







Finally, Anthony's long awaited moment - the shootout between my original Proac Response 1sc vs the Proac clones





The very popular Proac clones - the little engine that could!



The Verdict:

Both DIY Master & I concurred to my original statement of the clones being at 85% of my original Proac Response 1sc.......althou, Anthony insists that it would capture 90% since the delivered clones were freshly made, so still needed the proper break-in period.
However, Anthony is now more that determined to push the clones to 100% with his magical skills - all I could muster was "go for it"  

His decision to choose the new mylar tweeter for the clones matched the scanspeak tweeter used in the original response 1sc, althou we both felt that the Seas midrange driver used in the original slightly bested the oem clone in openness and detail.

Nonetheless, the original proac response 1sc used to sell here for about 110k bnew, while the clones are only 6k bnew..............and frankly, if you havent heard the original proac side-by-side with the clone - then you certainly wont know the difference.

Truly, the best value for money in speakers - bar none!  

[John E.]

congrats brader mac! very, very nice speaker indeed!

congrats again master anthony! 100% gawang pinoy!

[blue_123]

Nice finish on the floorstanders looks awsome!    

[iiinas]

Nice finish on the floorstanders looks awsome!    

+1 ganda ng finish!

sir mac, how does the 2.5 sound in comparo with the orig proac + your two fs subwoofers? any impressions!

btw, congrats anthony, great speakers!!!