Topic: AN ONKYO HD-DVD PLAYER FOR OUR CONSIDERATION....

[taurus_cute]

I HAVE known this August from the web that the ONKYO company is placing an HD-DVD player on the market within September or October. The information is very scant, much of it mere re-mouthing or parroting of the Onkyo press release issued from the United States. The price is being placed at $899 dollars, in my estimate the final shop price for our shore would be from P50- to P60,000. The distinguishing quality of this ascendant model is the HQV REON VIDEO CHIP which handles the scaler & deinterlacer (or simply what makes the image world-class). The boast about its HDMI 1.3 capability and "Deeper-Color" is opened to dispute because Onkyo implicitly says it would work when coupled with its receiver - but it won't say fortrightly that it will work ONLY with its own receivers (or same elitist brands like the Denon 3805 receiver). Onkyo might as well say - to me - that those two features are mere humbug, technical baloneys, because I see no use for their receiver and I won't pay that much for a receiver (my receivers came from Quiapo, obscure Pioneers with the volume control created inexplicably -  in reverse - 1 being the loudest threshold). As well, how could those features be worked in or integrated between the Onkyo HD-DVD and a lowly, budget Mitsubishi  and Infocus DLP projectors?

I have been awaiting for a perfectly-engineered HD-DVD player because I wanted to see with my own eyes if the high-definition claim is indeed true. Also, I clamor to see the picture resolution of regular DVDs "improved" to a highest degree especially when projected unto a 90-inch giant screen. I am keen on getting an HD-DVD player which would squeeze out the best that could still be had from a 480-line standard DVD. The pioneering Toshibas may deliver the visual power of the HD-DVD format but its engineering can be faulted and seemed to be experimental units released hastily. I would be cautious against such device, we could choose to be wiser early adopters rather than a kid who got it first in his block for the sake of just being an early bird.

I have mused continually that only when brands like DENON or ONKYO makes HD-DVD player would I get compelled to be serious about it and start gathering the budget for the purchase thats bound to be expensive. Folks like these two applies refinements to established audio-video technology and puts a cutting-edge to it, often overhauling a machine's innards and figuratively making a Fiat out of Toyota Corollas. At a time when the "Video DACS" of Samsung DVD players are pegged at 8 bits, the Sonys & Pioneers at 10 bits-108mhz - Denon is shooting up for 14 bits-216 mhz! Thats the strategy, no surprise then that they could imposed premium prices and the market still presents itself.

When Denon or Onkyo enters the fray, videophiles stands at attention. ONKYO may play second fiddle to Denon, but its got that enviable rarified name. In our shore, no one handles Onkyo products except only one dealer and he even positions his speaker and audio systems as seriously high-end alternatives to the B & Ws, the Meridians, etc. The Onkyo's first firing shot model is named HD-DV805, aesthetically it doesn't look that cutting-edge, but its got that Onkyo pedigree - hence it better be superb.....

[pchin]

taurus, do you have the source info on this new player? Any picture of the player? Is there a full spec for this player? I presume it support DTS MA?

The pioneering Toshibas may deliver the visual power of the HD-DVD format but its engineering can be faulted and seemed to be experimental units released hastily. I would be cautious against such device, we could choose to be wiser early adopters rather than a kid who got it first in his block for the sake of just being an early bird.

Mind you, Toshiba's higher end 2nd gen HD DVD player delivers superior PQ & also has outstanding upscaling capability. It produced a sharp, stable image on par with dedicated upscaling players of much higher price points. However, as with all other players it has its fair share of weaknesses. But with the upcoming Tosh 3rd gen players, it can only getting better but without the sky high price! 

Also, I clamor to see the picture resolution of regular DVDs "improved" to a highest degree especially when projected unto a 90-inch giant screen. I am keen on getting an HD-DVD player which would squeeze out the best that could still be had from a 480-line standard DVD.

Eh why would you want to spend $899 to focus on SD DVD? There are excellent DVD players in the market with much cheaper price that can give you superior upscaling feature. Also at 90-inch giant screen no matter how good your upconverted DVD, at that huge size...HD DVD or Blu-ray is the only way to go.

Well, the other option is to adjust your viewing distance to compensate the lower resolution but then again you don't need such a high-end HD player na in this case, do you? 

Btw, this topic would fit nicely in the HD section: HD DVD & Blu-ray players.

[av_phile1]

The pioneering Toshibas may deliver the visual power of the HD-DVD format but its engineering can be faulted and seemed to be experimental units released hastily. I would be cautious against such device, we could choose to be wiser early adopters rather than a kid who got it first in his block for the sake of just being an early bird.

Excuse me, the HD DVD technology happens to be licensed to Toshiba.  There is really not much new that other CEs can deliver except some refinements and add-ons.  The basic technology has been defined and perfected by toshiba.  You should see their 3rd generation HD DVD as these are the direct rivals of the Onkyo model, not the earlier generation.    Onkyo and Denon are not a high end brands. They belong in the same mass-fi consumer brands just as Toshiba, Pioneer and Sony.   If you want high end, I suggest you wait for Meridian to release their HD DVD players.  It could cost 5 times the Onkyo model. 

BTW,  if you don't have any direct experience with Toshiba, nor sound basis for any comparison, I suggest you keep your caution to yourself.  A lot of early adopters have found even the first generation HD DVD players from Toshiba a great value and without peer in their time. 

[taurus_cute]

My friend PCHIN: Thank you for our common interest. I don't have an insider knowledge about the ONKYO HD-DVD, I learned about it by reading about the news that a major Hollywood studio, Paramount Pictures, has left the Blu-Ray format and shifted their DVD production to HD-DVD. From there, a small mention was made of an Onkyo player thats slated to be released any time now. My attention was drawn because I'm on a lookout for a higher-end manufacturer to create a player that would performed far more perfect than the pioneering Toshibas. You see, Toshiba's philosophy is market saturation - at the expense of creating players that are truly "perfect beast."

Somebody has to come up with the device I had in mind. Denon won't do it, for they squandered the opportunity by turning to Blu-Ray which in my non-expert thinking looked like headed to loserdom. To know more about this Onkyo, just turn to Yahoo and see the entries about it. They could not say much, but what is essential is that the release is just days ahead. You'll get to see also the image, but its conspicuous that no sites or entries would allow the viewer to magnified the image, as far as I can tell the form is very linear, echoing the Yamaha DVD models but not the latter's penchant for champaigne chassis.

For me, if this product could be made available to Asia, I would await the evaluation from folks like PROJECTORCENTRAL and if they rate it positively well then that would be a potential clincher.

Pchin, the hefty price of the player is not a monetary turn-off - not because I'm a wealthy hobbyist but I could try to come up with a budget because I don't have a family yet. I see it as an investment, a gadget that will see thorough use for the next five or so years. I'm more concerned about regular DVDs because much of what I've gathered through the years are of archival materials - subjects like the Holocaust, Indian-Hindu culture, and hodge-podge of subjects from autism to Alzheimer's disease, from leprosy to Cuban vintage cars, from Adolf Hitler to Robert Crumb. These obscure DVDs is not likely to see the light of day in the HD-DVD format, probably not in the next 25 years. Technically, they're not of reference video quality hence a player that has more fangs than a mere upconverting model would be more helpful.

As well, by now I have five HD-DVDs and they're still sealed because I can't take the Toshibas seriously. So they'll remain unviewed if no fancy player comes around. What I have are not much: BARRY MANILOW, BBC'S PLANET EARTH, FORBIDDEN PLANET, PAT METHENY, STAINED GLASS ART and the combination edition of 300. I want to opened them soon and check if HD-DVD is indeed a visual improvement.....

[taurus_cute]

To my friend AV_PHILE: I have indeed no basis for comparison because I dwell in the province and could not easily visit those fancy A/V shops that specializes on these things. The knowledge I have of Toshibas are based on written reports, not esoteric videophile journals but commonplace sources like HOME THEATER magazine and the AVS Forums.

I wished I could test an HD-DVD unit in person but I could only rely on printed reports. And the collective evaluations - at least from Western authorities - is that these first and second generation models are engineering mediocrities. And I would, by all means, place credence on such findings, to do so also convincingly inhibits me from putting in my money too fast.

Getting the best picture possible is our ultimate dream, but not very so when getting to it is a drag. My experience with a Panasonic player back in the days when progressive scan is still a fresh novelty colors my impression - oh yes, it does bring a solid, better picture than any non-progressives but it is very choosy with disks, it is region-coded, it is 110 volts, it won't show the chapters (believe it or not) on the LED, etc. I could mention more complaints, believe me, but you ought to be getting the idea.

For me "high-end" means technology thats three or more times the price of a unit. A price I could hardly afford, in simple words. Its technology you won't find in Abenson, Avid, Western and definitely not in Emilio S. Lim. As a rule, high-end brands qualifiably takes on that pedigree because they're stocked by specialized shops, in Manila that means Onkyo is rather high-end because only Laser Pro or Toyama were crazy enough to carry it. Why would Onkyo absent itself from more consumer-oriented outlets? Because to show yourself in Abenson is commercial suicide - would you like to render a high-end - even if its just delusional pretense - into a pedestrian?

Now what about this semantic business of Denon and Onkyo not being high-end enough? Maybe they have ceased to be so in the West, even on Germany or Japan. Pero pordiyosporsanto pal, we're in a Third World enclave, how would you accurately call a P70,000 Denon 3930ci DVd player amidst an ocean of P4000 Pioneer 533K or a P1,800 Konka from Makro -- an overpriced & overkill toy?

On the event that Meridian is a real high-end Macoy - please point to us who is its traditional stockist. The fact is no one is even loonier than Pro Laser or Toyama to carry it - for doing so is tantamount to certain monetary loss. That it should costs five times more than a Denon means that Meridian is pricing itself into the stratosphere. Only astronauts trawls the stratospheres, I could not because I'm only five foot four. I'd rather go home to Mama. And at home, I just won't allow myself to lose sleep over not owning a Meridian....

[baby]

I still don't have a HD player but Tosh HD players are not fancy.  Why still wait for another brand to come out like Onkyo or Denon?  True its still in its early stages and still more improvements and refinements.  But the 3rd gen Tosh players will be out and its improved at a lower price.  I also would not call our expensive hobby an investment because it doesn't appreciate.  I have Pioneer HTD 1 at 25k when I bought it and Pioneer 655A at 18K then.  But now I can't even sell then at 50% off .

I know what you feel.  We want the best of the best of PQ and SQ.  sometimes the mid priced gears are comparable or even better that those 5 to 10 times the price of Very high end gears.

[Munskie]

sir, may I ask what video monitors are you planning to use for your planned onkyo hd dvd??  are these the mitsubishi and infocus projectors that you mentioned in your first post??   Do these projectors output video at native high definition?  at least 720p if I could well ask? 

[av_phile1]

Now what about this semantic business of Denon and Onkyo not being high-end enough? Maybe they have ceased to be so in the West, even on Germany or Japan. Pero pordiyosporsanto pal, we're in a Third World enclave, how would you accurately call a P70,000 Denon 3930ci DVd player amidst an ocean of P4000 Pioneer 533K or a P1,800 Konka from Makro -- an overpriced & overkill toy?

On the event that Meridian is a real high-end Macoy - please point to us who is its traditional stockist. The fact is no one is even loonier than Pro Laser or Toyama to carry it - for doing so is tantamount to certain monetary loss. That it should costs five times more than a Denon means that Meridian is pricing itself into the stratosphere. Only astronauts trawls the stratospheres, I could not because I'm only five foot four. I'd rather go home to Mama. And at home, I just won't allow myself to lose sleep over not owning a Meridian....

Nope. They haven't ceased to be anything high end because they were never recognized as high end to begin with.  Whether here or in first world countries.  The audiophile hobby knows no nationality.  Living in a third world country gives you no excuse to regard a mass-fi brand as a high end brand. 

But no matter, my point is you can not denigrate a Toshiba just because you think a 70T player from Onkyo or Denon is high end enough to give you superior quality.  Because if at all they do, it's quite cosmetic and incremental for the most part.  They remain as mass-fi brands.  Going from Sony to Yamaha to Pioneer to Denon to Onkyo, etc, you are just going in circles my friend.  And I just mentioned Meridian as a high end example - one of the pioneering and respected high end brand with a large following from audiophiles around the world.  They just happen to be bringing out an HD DVD player if what you really wanted is high end.  After all they invented the meridan lossless packing algorithm used in DVD-Audio and the new lossless audio compression used in high definition.  And just FYI, 70T to 150T is not really that stratospheric in the audio video hobby.  Those Meridian, Theta, Bryston and Proceed brands have models that can go above half a million pesos per unit for amps and players.  Now that's overpriced in the true sense of the word.

[et414]

Denon and Onkyo are mass market brands.Onkyo is being distributed here by Toyama as the low-mid end end line for their B&W's. their true high end line is Classe Audio.  And let's not equate price w/ quality. Denon's $1500 DVD-3910 was beat by Oppo Digital's $200 player in the Secrets of Home Theater DVD Benchmark.

[Munskie]

I just cant fathom how one could denigrate Toshiba early gen players and marvel at the possible exceptional performance of the incoming Onkyo HD DVD player, aim for the best possible picture quality and then ask how it could integrate to a lowly budget mitsubishi or infocus projectors?

 

and FYI I own a Onkyo receiver, a Denon 3805 avr, and a Denon 2910 DVD player, and Im very much satisfied with their performance.  But I also own a first gen Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player, and I wouldnt equate it with words like "faulty engineering and hastily released experimental units", far from it.   If only I have early knowledge of the Toshiba, I wouldnt have purchased the Denon 2910....coz the Tosh upscales DVDs just as well as the Denon.     It would have saved me a lot of moolah too.
 

[et414]

onga or dapat nagimport ka na lang ng oppo 971h like i did hehehe fraction of the price lang maski ipadeliver mo pa sa jac

[barrister]

I just cant fathom how one could denigrate Toshiba early gen players and marvel at the possible exceptional performance of the incoming Onkyo HD DVD player ...

Easy.  Toshiba HD DVD player cheap. Onkyo HD DVD player 3 times more expensive.  Onkyo 3 times better than Toshiba.

Bose and Monster Cable will love you.   

[taurus_cute]

DEAR MUNSKIE: If I could afford the local price for the ONKYO (because its bound to be found in the specialty shops), and no other manufacturer will rear their chrome-plated head on the last quarter of 2007 intending to better or bumped the Onkyo in engineering one-upmanship - the player will be coupled with the cited MITSUBISHI HC-3100 projector.  This coupling, technically speaking, seemed half-incongruent because Mitsubishi is a mere 720p while Onkyo is full 1080p - but I have to lived with it with no cause to gripe because the projector has fit in with my budget while the player is, well, future-proof.

My posting for the Onkyo item comes from this context: that if we could afford it, we'll go seek the perfect beast of an HD-DVD device to be wed to a DLP projector beaming a giant screen of up to 90 inches. This is my context, this is where I'm coming from. No room is apportioned here to tube televisions - no matter what the size. Nor is the desired set-up mere tools for routine film viewing. No, the desired result is to make each film viewing a magical experience, a heightened, razor-sharp immersion....

[av_phile1]

My posting for the Onkyo item comes from this context: that if we could afford it, we'll go seek the perfect beast of an HD-DVD device to be wed to a DLP projector beaming a giant screen of up to 90 inches.

Unfortunately, seeking the "perfect beast of an HD-DVD" won't yield what you want when the parameter you use is price tag.  Like what ET414 said, even the lowly Oppo player beat its comeptetitor costing 5 times over.