Topic: The Future of HD ...

[barrister]

HD VMD Now Available in Europe - Experience True High Definition
At euro 179 HD VMD Makes HD 1080p Accessible in Europe
August 30, 2007: 11:51 AM EST

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LATH06830082007-1.htm

[Mr. Hankey]

As if the format wars weren't heated enough, a third competitor hits the market:



PRESS RELEASE:

HD VMD Debuts in U.S. - Affordable HD Disc Solution Available to Consumers in Q3'07.     

DENVER, Sep 05,2007    
     
$199 Price-Point Drives Affordability into the HD Market

New Medium Enterprises (NME) (OTC Bulletin Board: NMEN - News) today officially launched its HD VMD (Versatile Multilayer Disc) player and disc into the U.S. market with a debut at CEDIA Expo 2007. HD VMD brings maximum-HD 1080p high-quality players to consumers for a groundbreaking MSRP of $199. HD VMD players will be available for purchase in late October.
HD VMD stands to revolutionize the high-definition disc market, providing consumers with the best possible HD experience. Combining the best industrial opto-electronics and disc technologies, HD VMD brings together established DVD red-laser production infrastructure and break-through multilayer discs technology to deliver its maximum-HD picture. HD VMD red laser multilayer disc plans include storage of up to 30 GB of content on a single side disc.

Mahesh Jayanarayan, CEO of NME, Inc. says "U.S. consumers have waited for an HD solution at DVD pricing; and with HD VMD, we believe we have met this desire through a stellar quality, high-definition disc and player at a price point that almost anyone can afford." Jayanarayan adds, "With the launch into the U.S. market this month and an accelerating rollout of HD VMD content and retail distribution partners, we plan to drive adoption of HD in the home."

At $199, consumers can easily create their own HD living rooms; with the security of having a globally adopted format, and a better solution for their existing DVD libraries.

High-Definition at the Right Price -- High-end HD VMD products will enter the market at a groundbreaking MSRP of $199 -- 30 percent less than the least expensive competitive (and low end) product.

Incredible Image Quality -- With true HD resolution 1080p -- and 45Mbps bit rate, HD VMD excels at processing images and delivering the highest quality picture. From animation to fast action, viewers will experience incredible detail and vibrant colors.

Crystal Clear Sound -- With up to 7.1 sound channels, HD VMD delivers immersive and realistic sound that will make listeners feel like they are a part of the action.

Exceptional Standard Definition DVD Upconversion -- HD VMD players upconvert standard definition DVDs to deliver a killer high-definition picture. DVDs have never looked so good.

Global Content Choices -- HD VMD is currently being embraced by content providers around the globe, offering consumers a broad option of content. From U.S. to India to France to China, content from the world's leading film markets will be available to all.

VMD is currently being adopted by content providers and distributors in dozens of regions worldwide, including Australia, Brazil, Central Europe, China, France, Germany, Iceland, India, Japan, the Middle East Russia, Scandinavia, and the United States.

    Products Specifications:
    Disc (single side) HD VMD15 and HD VMD20
    Disc Diameter: 120 mm
    Disc Thickness: 1.2 mm
    Laser Wavelength: 650 nm
    Native Resolution for all models: 1920x1080p
    Video codecs: MPEG- 2, VC-1, H.-264
    Audio codecs: Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, DTS
    Data transfer rate: 45 Mbps
    Video bit rate: 45Mbps
    Security: AES based
    Additional features: USB port, card reader, HDMI,  Internet connectivity
    MSRP: $199

Link to company press release: http://www.nmeinc.com/press_main.aspx

Related Article: http://tv-shows-on-dvd.blogspot.com

[dede]

that's awesome... 30gb media with 199$ player.

[barrister]

As if the format wars weren't heated enough, a third competitor hits the market:

How about a fourth format:  CH-DVD

Foundation of China High Definition DVD Industry Association (CHDA) Heralds New Era of High-Definition Entertainment in China

Industry Leaders Develop and Promote CH-DVD, a New High Definition DVD Standard for Chinese Market

http://www.cnw.ca/fr/releases/archive/September2007/07/c6367.html

[frootloops]

How about a fourth format:  CH-DVD
Industry Leaders Develop and Promote CH-DVD, a New High Definition DVD Standard for Chinese Market

Chinese Market only and not globally? Is my understanding right? Being a late bloomer also pays some price. 

Thanks barrister, cant wait to have this new format soon given its not so expensive price. I just hope it pars with other branded players in the market.

[barrister]

Yes sir.  The good news is that it's not a new competing format.  It's HD DVD based and approved by the DVD Forum.

According to Scott Fulton of Betanews, China is tired of Western video market bigwigs pushing them around, and will only participate in the HD video market if it can use AVS, China's own video codec, which is reportedly even better than VC-1 in some aspects.

It could be that the DVD Forum and China are scratching each other's backs.  DVD Forum and HD-DVD agree to back the CH-DVD format; China floods the Western market with ultra-cheap HD-DVD players.

Things are looking pretty bleak for Blu ray these days.

[jmigs]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_high_definition_optical_disc_formats

List of Past, Present, Future Optical Disc Formats
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Home_video
They will never stop until they achive UNCOMPRESSED video.

[barrister]

Video on Demand ---- The Future of HD!





Vudu Goes HD, Thumbs Nose at Blu-ray and HD DVD

This winter, Vudu will give every Vudu owner and new buyer copies of both The Bourne Identity and The Bourne Supremacy, pre-loaded on their boxes in glorious HD. They will also have the opportunity to download The Bourne Ultimatum to own for $25. This is a sign that Vudu—and Universal—are looking past the current format war toward the increasingly inevitable download-only distribution.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/digital-downloads/vudu-goes-hd-thumbs-nose-at-blu+ray-and-hd-dvd-324913.php

[Marl☆1]

Just an 'bump' on this thread, in relation to next gen HD trends - looks like the Total HD drive of Warner has come to a screeching halt   
News HERE & HERE.

[fnvillafuerte]

IMHO, the future of HD is no disc at all... it would be in a form of a flash memory, much like our MMC and SD cards today, but in terms of several terrabyte capacity!  At this capacity, uncompressed video can be stored, it is the ultimate HD!  There won't be any better video format than the uncompressed video. 

[Marl☆1]

IMHO, the future of HD is no disc at all... it would be in a form of a flash memory, much like our MMC and SD cards today, but in terms of several terrabyte capacity!  At this capacity, uncompressed video can be stored, it is the ultimate HD!  There won't be any better video format than the uncompressed video. 

May punto kay bro, fair enough - very plausible scenario.    That made me think though, why it's not being considered as a strong contender now ?    Or even before at the outset of the DVD phenomenon - am wondering why it didn't take off in a major way, aside from niche movie downloads vis-a-vis the low-res compression applications.  Seems like striking the right balance between the 3C's "Capacity, Clarity & Convenience (Portability)" at the right price is one of the key success drivers...

From Wikipedia:

On Flash Drives
"Flash drive capacities on the market are continuously increasing. As of 2006, 64 MB and smaller capacity flash memory has been largely discontinued, and 128 MB capacity flash memory is being phased out. High-speed USB is now a standard for modern flash drives and capacities of up to 16GB are common."

On HD Discs (BD in particular)
"A single layer Blu-ray Disc can store 25 gigabytes (GB), over five times the size of a single layer DVD at 4.7 GB. A dual layer Blu-ray Disc can store 50GB, almost six times the size of a dual layer DVD at 8.5 GB."

Please note that this excludes portable HDDs which is a different comparison altogether.  Portable HDDs are currently working of the 'portability' angle which is clearly the strength of the flash drives (a.k.a. thumb drives).

That said, the current scenario has it at 16-Gig Flash Drives vs. 50-Gig BDs, a considerable gap.  Still, there's no denying that tech changes radically overnight so it's very probable that flash drives can speedily narrow down that 30+Gb gap.  However, when it comes to marketing these devices in the future, of course various factors would now come into play like Content providers, Pricing schemes, Portability, Supplier support etc, which would lead to a range of permutations on the best vehicle for HD content.

Meantime IMHO, in terms of convenience, pricing and sheer popularity, I reckon the HD discs would pave the way and rule for a couple of more periods.    Building on this, DISCS as storage devices has history behind it but Flash Drives in tandem with portable HDDs indeed should figure more prominently in the future - a very realistic possibility. 

[barrister]

1080p?  Ang baba naman ng resolution.  Wala yan sa lolo ko ...

In the works:  Red-Ray players ---  4096 x 2048 resolution!



Blu-ray? Pfft! Red-Ray offers four times the detail!
GADGET NEWS | HOT KIT
April 17th, 2008
http://www.electricpig.tv/news/hot-kit/145821/bluray-pfft-redray-offers-four-times-the-detail.thtml



Red-Ray Players Give You the Mind-Blowing HD Experience
- Ever heard of “Beyond-HD” screen resolutions?
By: Bogdan Botezatu, Hardware Editor

The format war might be over for Toshiba's HD-DVD, but it seems that the next target on the list of casualties will be the victorious Blu-Ray. Those of you who are already prepared to toss the Blu-Ray movie titles and jump in the new format's bandwagon, are advised to wait a little more, as the new format is still in diapers.

The mighty Red-Ray format is a new standard, able to deliver "Beyond-HD" video quality, namely movies at impressive 4096 x 2048 pixels screen resolutions.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Red-Ray-Players-Give-You-the-Mind-Blowing-HD-Experience-83682.shtml




An employee from RED posted on reduser.net forum:

The 4K RED-RAY uses standard "red" laser DVD media. The delivery codec is so efficient we can provide more than 2 hours of 4K plus audio on one dual layer single sided DVD.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11698&page=2

 

[av_phile1]

Interesting article from NYTimes entitled "Blu-ray: The Future Has Been Delayed"

Hot on the heels of last week’s report from ABI Research noting that many consumers may not see the picture quality difference between Blu-ray and standard DVDs comes the latest Blu-ray sales figures from NPD Group. And they’re not pretty.

According to NPD, sales of Blu-ray standalone players plummeted 40 percent from January to February, then rose a scant 2 percent from February to March. The general consensus was that once Toshiba dropped its support for the HD DVD format early this year, sales would increase.

In fact, sales of Blu-ray standalone players remain so low that NPD has not yet released actual numbers, for fear that it would be easy to identify individual retailers. The research group will start to give actual figures later this year, said Ross Rubin, director of industry analysis at NPD.

The end of the format wars clearly did little to boost Blu-ray’s prospects. Like others, Mr. Rubin said the much cheaper upconverting standard DVD players are winning consumers’ hearts and wallets.

The price of upconverting players is hovering around $70. And this week, Amazon is giving them away for free when consumers purchase certain Samsung TVs. The result: a 5 percent uptick in upconverting DVD player sales in the first quarter of 2008, compared to same quarter a year ago, and a 39 percent decline in players that don’t have that feature.

With Blu-ray players still costing more than $300 — and a number of players on the market still lacking some Blu-ray features like Internect connectivity — NPD now figures that Blu-ray’s future won’t be clear until this Christmas, when prices should drop to the $200 range.

ABI Research is even less optimistic. In a report released yesterday, the research firm figures it could take until October 2009 until Blu-ray gains a foothold in the market.
================================
So progressive DVD players show 39% decline in sales, upconverting DVD players show a 5% increase and Blu-ray sales are so slow to be a embarrassment for NPD. BTW in 2008 85% of all Blu-Ray sales will be the Sony PS3.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1024770#post13765602

[darkwing]

Blu-ray disc sales treble

http://www.techradar.com/news/home-cinema/blu-ray-disc-sales-treble-354521

[Moks007]

Blu-ray disc sales treble

http://www.techradar.com/news/home-cinema/blu-ray-disc-sales-treble-354521

What??? .. Did I read it right, bluray discs will drop from avg. 28++ dollars presently to 24++ dollars by 2011. Thats an avg of about a dollar or so  drop per year..I'm kinda disappointed :'(, Wish it will be more ..I guess I was used to buying bd discs last year at avg of 15 to 18 dollars ( I think even lower than 15 bucks on some ) with all the sale, plus amazons additional 10 percent discount. But I guess studios have to make money for the meantime.

[av_phile1]

The future of HD lies on internet bandwidth. Fiber to the home at 1Gbps speeds. 

[pchin]

Initially I was skeptical of HD download but after tried out a few movies at just 720p...whoa the PQ is nice! It's convenient & discless. Of cos it's just the movie lang...no extra features, commentary, delected scenes, no lossless or PCM audio, etc meron pa DD or DTS at 5.1

[barrister]

Toshiba 'gets high resolution' from current DVDs
The Yomiuri Shimbun
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/features/science/20080530TDY01303.htm

Toshiba set to launch "Blu-ray killer" DVD technology
30 May 2008 13:51 by Andre "DVDBack23" Yoskowitz
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/14299.cfm

[Mouldingo]

Toshiba 'gets high resolution' from current DVDs
The Yomiuri Shimbun
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/features/science/20080530TDY01303.htm

Toshiba set to launch "Blu-ray killer" DVD technology
30 May 2008 13:51 by Andre "DVDBack23" Yoskowitz
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/14299.cfm

After the HD-DVD debacle, I guess Toshiba will have a MOUNTAIN to climb to convince consumers to trust its products again. Daming napaso...

[MAtZTER]

Interesting thread. I may be holding off going blu for the right reasons. 

[Moks007]

After the HD-DVD debacle, I guess Toshiba will have a MOUNTAIN to climb to convince consumers to trust its products again. Daming napaso...

I think its true that the trust may be tarnished, but if this player really shows that its the best upscaling player, (maybe) close enough to hd, which I really doubt but who knows. I think this will be a success. IMO, the reason is people don't need to shell  out for brand new discs anymore, just this player, thats where the advantage is. I have over 600 dvds and will I rebuy them all in bluray? I really don't think so until prices maybe come down to 10 dollars or less. Now the big question: Is there gonna be money made for this new hd technology for the studios and the rest of them if prices go that low? Whats their point then to go/support high definition if there will be no money to be made for them. Winning is one thing making money off it is another for them. Yes bluray player plays dvd but is it "the best" in terms of pq for our dvds. IMO, I don't think a lot really care about sound (nothing against those who are). Maybe only middle to hard core enthusiast are really interested in sound.

Actually, I really hope also that high def will be a success bec after watching some really excellent transfers, man its really unbeatable at the moment. But last night after watching Predator bluray, man don't even bother buying this unless your a predator/Arnold addict like me (Actually bought it at 19.99)..Stick with your dvd. There are some scenes really sharp (can see the blood and gore better, jungle sharper) but other than that overall walang "IT"... Now how can they justify this upgrade, paying 22 to 27 dollars for it. I don't really know. If its just for sound, which I notice is better even I don't have hdmi receiver. It's really up to the buyer which (AQ or PQ) is worth it for the upgrade.

[darkwing]

lossless sound is still the best ^_^ i don't want to hear any compressed na hehe i don't get it why sabi nila upscaling player is near HD, even my mom knows whether the movie playing is a DVD or BD 

[Moks007]

lossless sound is still the best ^_^ i don't want to hear any compressed na hehe i don't get it why sabi nila upscaling player is near HD, even my mom knows whether the movie playing is a DVD or BD 

I think the "upscaling player is near HD" is more of " producing PQ that is good enough for most" We know that dvd is no match for HD, but for those with cash that can purchase the expensive processors or the really good dvd players, I think that is "good enough" PQ wise especially on those catalog titles or even the latest. Now if these toshiba players come in at 199 to 299 price level, its more affordable for most of us, especially for those with a modest to big dvd library, Its worth it. Im sure everybody is waiting for bluray prices to come down. By that time, will there be money made for those studios and CE companies. Is it worth it for them to invest in this?

 I think one of the most impt issue here is "How many percent of the market will buy everything in bluray at their existing price right now?" and "Will studios totally remove dvds and just produce in bluray and take the chance?" Ya its true prices will come down in the future (like what happened to dvd) but for sure they want to make money. I may be wrong but I think it took at least 10 years for dvds to reach at these price points. (100, 150, 199, 299 pesos or 7.99, 8.99, 9.99, 12.99 usd). I can't believe these prices when I start seeing 2disc editions at 299 pesos or lower recently . Ya its not like the region 1 versions but these are "good enough" for most of the people..Some may say dvds were also expensive when it started out. But I think the difference here is a lot of people already own the title. Most will only rebuy at low prices or they really love that movie that they would want to pay a premium for it in bluray. (Like what I did with Dirty Harry series ) I think most of us are spoiled on low prices of dvds right now and this is the difference. I think this is the reason why I keep complaining about the prices of bluray discs Sorry ..I keep comparing them to dvds pricewise, I know its wrong bec you have to pay a premium on a better product but I can't help it. Can you guys?

[darkwing]

well its basically which one you want, SD or HD? hehe

[Mouldingo]

Toshiba is just delaying the inevitable. They're just squeezing every last drop out of their SD DVD royalties. Hd is still HD...

[pchin]

well its basically which one you want, SD or HD? hehe

I'm sure Moks007 prefers HD PQ..it's just that everyone wants the price at SD level  LOL

[darkwing]

hehehe don't we all? kaya ako naka abang lagi sa Gold Box sa Amazon haha

[Clondalkin]

I think this is the reason why I keep complaining about the prices of bluray discs Sorry ..I keep comparing them to dvds pricewise, I know its wrong bec you have to pay a premium on a better product but I can't help it. Can you guys?

Moks, looking at the total number of hd disks you've purchased so far, I don't think you're complaining strong enough.   

Catalogue titles will always be difficult to sell.   Even I who simply downloads hd contents is getting bored of catalogues.  For the most part, I would watch new titles immediately (no matter how much they suck) and those few old films I've never watched and heard of before (like Breaker Morant for instance),  - and then check-out popular catalogue titles kung meron pang spare time for viewing - which is usually wala.   So tulog lang yung data sa hard drive.

I realize now that my level of excitement for catalogues when I switched from VHS to DVD is definitely higher compared to that of DVD to HD.  I remember passing by the rental shop every night after work back in 1998 checking out every single new DVD released.

[Moks007]

Moks, looking at the total number of hd disks you've purchased so far, I don't think you're complaining strong enough.   

Catalogue titles will always be difficult to sell.   Even I who simply downloads hd contents is getting bored of catalogues.  For the most part, I would watch new titles immediately (no matter how much they suck) and those few old films I've never watched and heard of before (like Breaker Morant for instance),  - and then check-out popular catalogue titles kung meron pang spare time for viewing - which is usually wala.   So tulog lang yung data sa hard drive.

I realize now that my level of excitement for catalogues when I switched from VHS to DVD is definitely higher compared to that of DVD to HD.  I remember passing by the rental shop every night after work back in 1998 checking out every single new DVD released.

hehe..I think more than 50 percent of the title I own are from this computation/sale from last year

6 titles blu 27.95 x 6 = 167.70
Less:
Promo discount bogo      83.85
Less:                           
Additional 10% discount
in Amazon for hidef
purchase                      16.77
Free super saver
shipping                        0.00
                               ---------------

Total cost                      67.08

6 bluray discs at 67.08 x 45 = 3,018.60 pesos

This year?
6 bluray discs at recent up to 50% off at amazon = 22.95 x 6 = 137.70
Less:
Super saver shipping lang                                                    0.00
         
                                                                                       ---------

Total cost                                                                           137.70

6 bluray discs at 137.70 x 44 = 6,058.80 pesos

Huge huge difference. :'(
Thats why this year I got more selective na.
Me naman I prefer catalogs, Ya some new titles are great (Ratatouille, Ironman, Bucket list etc..) but a lot of the day date movie series are getting old na..Indy 4, Rush hour 3, Spiderman 3, Pirates 3, Rambo 4..I'm sure transformer 3 or Ironman 3, Batman 4, Incredible Hulk 5, Meet the In-Laws may suck na  ..Joke joke, just made up those titles..IMO most of them are getting old na, but of course its a matter of taste. We all have diff preferences/likes in movies.  I think directors are running out of ideas for movies  ..I usually purchase these just to complete the series bec sometimes when you look at your dvd rack and see Pirates 3 missing or Rush hour 3 missing, I get irritated (obsessive compulsive?) ..I like everything complete so sometimes I just get these to complete the set . However I still like to watch these series out of curiosity and loving the first 2 or 3 hehe..

[MAtZTER]

I think the "upscaling player is near HD" is more of " producing PQ that is good enough for most" We know that dvd is no match for HD, but for those with cash that can purchase the expensive processors or the really good dvd players, I think that is "good enough" PQ wise especially on those catalog titles or even the latest.

If I may add, IMhO, if you use the really good processors & amps, even the sound is near HD. I have gone to a fellow member's setup with a good receiver and all power amped. We compared the difference of compressed & uncompressed, SD & HD.

There is a difference of course, favouring the uncompressed format. But its not a night & day difference, and IMO (and in my pocket's opinion  ), its not worth double dipping on that same DVD. Specially for people like me who dont rewatch movies (till about 2-3 years). I actually still have so many R1 titles ( that I have watched before already, somewhere else) that I havent opened!   

Another dilemma of course, is the companion factor. In my case, its my wife. She also seldom  rewatches a movie,  so if I ask her if she wants to watch a rerun (maybe even if it was HD), she would choose an unwatched DVD instead.

Better to rent than to buy, LOL. Somebody please open an HD rental shop! (hint, hint to those with huge HD collections )