Topic: set-up questions begging for answers....

[-sniper-]

hi everyone. a newbie is in dire need of your valuable inputs. honestly, i know so little about ht set-up. all i know is how the equipments (a/vr, sub, front, center, rear) function. but i don't know what brand performs satisfactorily.

i want to replace my existing htib. i was content with it until a friend of mine who is also a pdvd member introduced me to the idea of upgrading. he described how wonderful it is to have a good set-up. the ht bug suddenly bit me.

i've gotten some fine suggestions from the other members. but i do not have any idea on the following matters:

1.) i am looking for a receiver. the most common suggestions i got are the following: yamaha, harman kardon, onkyo and rotel. i need enlightenment. which brand would suit me best? and at least what series should i look for? i am into music/movies.

2.) in relation to the above question, if the avr says it delivers 75 watts per channel, does it mean that i should not buy speakers with a wattage higher than 75?

3.) does an avr with 5 channels but has a phantom rear center produce the same effect as an avr with 6 channels? is the first (5ch. with phantom rear center) equivalent to a 6.1 set-up? i'm guessing it's not but i am looking for a definitive answer just the same.

4.) going now to speakers, should the front, center and surround speakers be of the same brand? if yes, is it necessary that they be of the same series, and wattage perhaps? or will same brand suffice?

thank you in advance to those who will patiently answer these questions. i know i'll learn a lot from the gurus out there.

[audiojunkie]

hi everyone. a newbie is in dire need of your valuable inputs. honestly, i know so little about ht set-up. all i know is how the equipments (a/vr, sub, front, center, rear) function. but i don't know what brand performs satisfactorily.

i want to replace my existing htib. i was content with it until a friend of mine who is also a pdvd member introduced me to the idea of upgrading. he described how wonderful it is to have a good set-up. the ht bug suddenly bit me.

i've gotten some fine suggestions from the other members. but i do not have any idea on the following matters:

1.) i am looking for a receiver. the most common suggestions i got are the following: yamaha, harman kardon, onkyo and rotel. i need enlightenment. which brand would suit me best? and at least what series should i look for? i am into music/movies.

2.) in relation to the above question, if the avr says it delivers 75 watts per channel, does it mean that i should not buy speakers with a wattage higher than 75?

3.) does an avr with 5 channels but has a phantom rear center produce the same effect as an avr with 6 channels? is the first (5ch. with phantom rear center) equivalent to a 6.1 set-up? i'm guessing it's not but i am looking for a definitive answer just the same.

4.) going now to speakers, should the front, center and surround speakers be of the same brand? if yes, is it necessary that they be of the same series, and wattage perhaps? or will same brand suffice?

thank you in advance to those who will patiently answer these questions. i know i'll learn a lot from the gurus out there.

Just a quick reply to your questions:

1. Have time listen to all you mentioned, take with you your favorite CD or DVD.
2. Yes and if possible get with much higher power.
3. Mostly new models have 7.1 channels but phantom is like mimic sound from the L/R sorrounds.
4. Yes, to all, if possible for timbre match..
5. Visit all A/V shops listen to all their avalable setups and take note all your observations of  each.

hope this helps..  

[et414]

1. that would depend on your budget. a good rule would be to buy as much power as you can afford. your choice of receiver will also be influence by what speakers you plan on getting. some brands(receiver) go well w/ a particular brand of speaker and some brands don't. its called synergy.

2. sure you can. except for the higher end brands, mass market electronic companies usually inflate their wattage ratings. most of the time its the receiver that can't handle the load, driving the speakers into clipping.

3. there are very few dvd titles encoded in 6.1 and most of the time its just matrixed information from the rear channels. IMO in a small to medium sized room, 6/7.1 setups aren't really necessary.

4. same brand and same series is preferred.

[-sniper-]

audiojunkie and ET414:

thanks for the input.

a few questions cropped up. (open to others as well)

what will happen if i have speakers rated at, say, 75watts and my receiver can deliver 100 watts and set it at maximum? will it distort the sound coming out of my speakers? will it damage my speakers?

i am aware of the importance of having a test/audition of the equipment before purchasing it. however, distance is not on my side. i am from a freeport at north and going to manila is a big task for me (gasoline, toll fee, time...not to mention driving). so i rely purely on the words of those selling their stuff here. trust basis, so to speak.

was able to purchase a sub here already. no inspection/audition. i just trusted the seller and he did not fail me. the sub was really good. by the way, he is masterjericho and judging from the way we transacted, i can say that he is a trustworthy fella.

[reynold]

what will happen if i have speakers rated at, say, 75watts and my receiver can deliver 100 watts and set it at maximum? will it distort the sound coming out of my speakers? will it damage my speakers?

i am aware of the importance of having a test/audition of the equipment before purchasing it. however, distance is not on my side. i am from a freeport at north and going to manila is a big task for me (gasoline, toll fee, time...not to mention driving). so i rely purely on the words of those selling their stuff here. trust basis, so to speak.

was able to purchase a sub here already. no inspection/audition. i just trusted the seller and he did not fail me. the sub was really good. by the way, he is masterjericho and judging from the way we transacted, i can say that he is a trustworthy fella.

for your question... it will damage your speaker or worst, baka pati receiver mo masira... at isa pa, might damage your eardrum din, hehe 

Wow, nauna pa ang subwoofer ha, most of the times kasi, panghuli ang subwoofer sa pag-purchase ng HT equipment e 

Anyway, Goodluck bro on your setup

[et414]

your eardrums will explode and you will go deaf before you drive your speakers to max w/ a good 100watt amp;D hehehe dont worry about too much power. worry about having too little. like i said before, speaker damage is usually caused by an underpowered amp driven to its limits. most mass market amps' real ratings are usually far less than the stated value. their 100watt rating are usually w/ only 1 or 2 channels driven. so that means that 100watts is usually divided by 5 or 7 channels leaving only 15-20wpc. make sure you get efficient speakers w/ a sensitivity rating of at least 89db and impedence of 8ohms to avoid this.

regarding your first post, we need more info before we can make a specific suggestion. like how big is your room what is your budget.

[-sniper-]

for your question... it will damage your speaker or worst, baka pati receiver mo masira... at isa pa, might damage your eardrum din, hehe 

Wow, nauna pa ang subwoofer ha, most of the times kasi, panghuli ang subwoofer sa pag-purchase ng HT equipment e 

Anyway, Goodluck bro on your setup

thanks so much.

i was browsing the buy and sell section. i was then searching for anything i can lay my hands on, whichever comes first. the sub came first so i grabbed it at once. but before that, i was in line for wharfes. unfortunately, naunahan ako. and then the sub was available so i purchased it na rather than lose it to someone else again.

thanks again.

don't hesitate to post additional inputs. thanks.

[-sniper-]

your eardrums will explode and you will go deaf before you drive your speakers to max w/ a good 100watt amp;D hehehe dont worry about too much power. worry about having too little. like i said before, speaker damage is usually caused by an underpowered amp driven to its limits. most mass market amps' real ratings are usually far less than the stated value. their 100watt rating are usually w/ only 1 or 2 channels driven. so that means that 100watts is usually divided by 5 or 7 channels leaving only 15-20wpc. make sure you get efficient speakers w/ a sensitivity rating of at least 89db and impedence of 8ohms to avoid this.

regarding your first post, we need more info before we can make a specific suggestion. like how big is your room what is your budget.

will post the size of the room, pero siguro next week na. long weekends eh.

as regards the budget, i will allocate around 20k for the avr and speakers (front, center, rear). you think i could have a fairly decent set-up with that amount? i made that estimate based on the prices i usually see on the b&s section (wharfe and yamaha). but i am willing to adjust if the circumstances demand it.

[-sniper-]

regarding your first post, we need more info before we can make a specific suggestion. like how big is your room what is your budget.

hi ET414.

the over-all length of the area (dining and receiving area) is 24ft but half of it has a width of 11 1/2 ft (dining) and the other half (receiving area) 14 feet. this is one continuous structure. height is 8 1/2 ft.

i plan to mount the front speakers at mid-point of the length of the receiving area and the rears at mid-point of the length of the dining area. the center will be, well, at the center. hehe

is this positioning of the fronts and rears ok? or is it better to mount them corner to corner?

[et414]

sorry but im having trouble visualizing what you describe. can you pls post a sketch or pic?

[audiojunkie]

hi ET414.

the over-all length of the area (dining and receiving area) is 24ft but half of it has a width of 11 1/2 ft (dining) and the other half (receiving area) 14 feet. this is one continuous structure. height is 8 1/2 ft.

i plan to mount the front speakers at mid-point of the length of the receiving area and the rears at mid-point of the length of the dining area. the center will be, well, at the center. hehe

is this positioning of the fronts and rears ok? or is it better to mount them corner to corner?

I think you mean, the HT area will be @ the middle between dining and receiving area. If you cut the whole length into 3 parts, you will be at the 2nd part, right? if this is the set-up you plan, try it and tell us the result..   

[-sniper-]

hi audiojunkie.

i intend to set the whole thing up on the whole area i just described. i will try to post a sketch of the place, as requested by ET414, for clearer visualization.

[-sniper-]

sorry but im having trouble visualizing what you describe. can you pls post a sketch or pic?

hi there.

can you teach me how to attach a picture? i can't seem to figure it out. was trying to click the insert image button but nothing happens. 

thanks. 

[audiojunkie]

hi audiojunkie.

i intend to set the whole thing up on the whole area i just described. i will try to post a sketch of the place, as requested by ET414, for clearer visualization.

My apology, I misunderstood your point... will wait your sketch... na lang...

[et414]

How to post pictures

[-sniper-]

ET414 and audiojunkie (and to the rest as well):

this is the best i could come up with...just pretend that it is a straight line. hehe

                          ___________
                          :      x         :   2
                          :                :
                          :                :   4
receiving area       :x              x:
                          :  ->14ft <- :   
                          :                :
                          :___            :                
                                :           :    f
                                :           :
                                :           :    e
          dining area        :x        x:
                                :11 ½ ft :    e
                                :           :
                                :______ :    t


              "x" is the spot where i intend to mount my speakers

[audiojunkie]

ET414 and audiojunkie (and to the rest as well):

this is the best i could come up with...just pretend that it is a straight line. hehe

                          ___________
                          :      x         :   2
                          :                :
                          :                :   4
receiving area       :x              x:
                          :  ->14ft <- :   
                          :                :
                          :___            :                
                                :           :    f
                                :           :
                                :           :    e
          dining area        :x        x:
                                :11 ½ ft :    e
                                :           :
                                :______ :    t


              "x" is the spot where i intend to mount my speakers

Ah! I see, but room shape is irrigular you might have a liittle problem with Backsurround placement... anyhow, try it, but first expriment with s. speakers positions before you fixe them permanently...

[et414]

where will the tv and sitting area be? i'm guessing it will be in the receiving area in w/c case the rears would be too far away from the listening spot. and it looks like the fronts and center are too far apart

[-sniper-]

where will the tv and sitting area be? i'm guessing it will be in the receiving area in w/c case the rears would be too far away from the listening spot. and it looks like the fronts and center are too far apart

thanks. 

yup, the t.v. and sitting area will be in the receiving area. the t.v. will be under the center speaker.

that is the current set-up of my htib and i'm quite satisfied. it's able to blanket the whole area with sounds. i know that an ht set-up will perform better as compared with an htib. so i'm guessing that i would be getting better results.

if you think that the positioning is too far, would you suggest that i confine it within the receiving area only? i agree that i have to experiment first before drilling holes on my wall.

[-sniper-]

some more questions.........

should my speakers be of the same type? i mean if i purchase floor standers for my fronts, should my rears be floor standers too?

and if i purchase wall mountable speakers, (which is what i really intend to do) what is the ideal height for me to mount them? and should they be mounted on the same height? (i plan to mount them one foot from the ceiling)

[Philjonc]

some more questions.........

should my speakers be of the same type? i mean if i purchase floor standers for my fronts, should my rears be floor standers too?

and if i purchase wall mountable speakers, (which is what i really intend to do) what is the ideal height for me to mount them? and should they be mounted on the same height? (i plan to mount them one foot from the ceiling)

you can use floorstanders for front but not necessarily for surrounds, simply because you dont need full range speakers for effects.

[barrister]

I would not recommend floorstanders for surround speakers.

Some prefer identical speakers for all channels with the objective of matching all speakers perfectly.  If they have floorstanders for fronts, they want identical floorstanding speakers for center and surrounds.

Here's the big problem for rear floorstanders:



Surround speaker placement is recommended to be 2 to 3 feet above the listener's head.  Medyo mahirap yatang gawin yan para sa rear floorstanders. 

[-sniper-]

thanks so much barrister! the input and the image are very useful. 

[-sniper-]

still on speaker positioning...

what is the ideal distance between speakers? how far should the front be from the rear?

[MAtZTER]

Sir Alpa, all your questions about placement can be answered at Audioholics.com. They have a section teaching the basics of HT.

ET414 and audiojunkie (and to the rest as well):

this is the best i could come up with...just pretend that it is a straight line. hehe

                          ___________
                          :      x         :   2
                          :                :
                          :                :   4
receiving area       :x              x:
                          :  ->14ft <- :   
                          :                :
                          :___            :                
                                :           :    f
                                :           :
                                :           :    e
          dining area        :x        x:
                                :11 ½ ft :    e
                                :           :
                                :______ :    t


              "x" is the spot where i intend to mount my speakers

reminds me of the condo I lived in when I was starting HT, labu labo din speaker placement ko, ayan, labu labo din ang sound. Try to have the classic speaker arrangement if possible, even in  a small space.



I find smaller spaces better cuz they are easy to power. A whopping dining-living-HT needs quite some power to fill up the room, plus bigger speakers & more subs. Your typical 15k entry level receiver will be figuratively "coughing blood" to power a room this big. 

5 identical Bookshelf types are better for me in HT, since the subs handle the LFE anyway. I still use floorstanders for my separate audio . I used to be the "floorstandersnomatterwhatcuzmaporma&noneedforstands" type but after several upgrades I found that bookshelves/ sub combo are enough for HT in smaller rooms like mine.

What you could do is to utilize the 14ft clearance area to build your HT horizontally, not vertically accdg to your illustration. This way the nearer back wall can help reinforce the sound. Trust me it can be done even with a 14ft clearance, my HT's clearance is around 12+ft only & I have a 7.1 setup following the above illustration, plus a 90" PJ, and my seat isnt flushed to the back wall.

The impact of a well planned HT can be very rewarding compared to a labu labo one like my first HT (I wasnt a member of PDVD then). 

[barrister]

what is the ideal distance between speakers? how far should the front be from the rear?

No need to compute the distance between front and rear.

Front speakers are ideally placed beside the TV screen because the screen is the front speakers' reference position. 

Rear speakers are ideally placed 2 to 3 feet above the listener's head.

Thus, front speaker placement is determined by the screen's position; and rear speaker placement is determined by the listening position.

What should be the distance between the fronts and the rears?  Almost the same as the distance between the TV and the couch.

Whatever distance you get can be compensated by the receiver's setup selections for speaker delay.
 

[oweidah]

Sir Alpa, all your questions about placement can be answered at Audioholics.com. They have a section teaching the basics of HT.

reminds me of the condo I lived in when I was starting HT, labu labo din speaker placement ko, ayan, labu labo din ang sound. Try to have the classic speaker arrangement if possible, even in  a small space.



I find smaller spaces better cuz they are easy to power. A whopping dining-living-HT needs quite some power to fill up the room, plus bigger speakers & more subs. Your typical 15k entry level receiver will be figuratively "coughing blood" to power a room this big. 

5 identical Bookshelf types are better for me in HT. I still use floorstanders for my separate audio . I used to be the "floorstandersnomatterwhatcuzmaporma&noneedforstands" type but after several upgrades I find that bookshelves/ sub combo are enough for HT in smaller rooms like mine.

What you could do is to utilize the 14ft clearance area to build your HT horizontally, not vertically accdg to your illustration. This way the nearer back wall can help reinforce the sound. Trust me it can be done even with a 14ft clearance, my HT's clearance is around 12+ft only & I have a 7.1 setup following the above illustration, plus a 90" PJ, and my seat isnt flushed to the back wall.

The impact of a well planned HT can be very rewarding compared to a labu labo one like my first HT (I wasnt a member of PDVD then). 

admins, mods, mga bossing...

its high time that guru matzter be given a "pinned" thread = "itanong k GMatz"

happy holiday cheers !!!

[MAtZTER]

LOL, baliw! Dapat English... hehe

****************************************

sir Alpa, read this thread, its very basic:

DIY guide to HT

You can also close your reception area using sliding doors or dividers & leave the dining area out of the HT equation. Room borders can help reinforce your HT. My friend has a huge 100+ sq meter Living/Dining/den w/ the room borders very far from the speakers... till now we still couldnt get a receiver powerful enough to fill the room.

[-sniper-]

thanks so much MAtZTER! it's so enlightening and amazing -- explanation, illustration and all.

closing the reception area with sliding doors is rather expensive.  besides, i think it would be better if i complete my ht set-up first. hehe 

again, thanks so much. 

[MAtZTER]

thanks so much MAtZTER! it's so enlightening and amazing -- explanation, illustration and all.

closing the reception area with sliding doors is rather expensive.  besides, i think it would be better if i complete my ht set-up first. hehe 

again, thanks so much. 

You are very welcome sir.

Expensive? Whoever told you that we are in an inexpensive hobby? 

I thought our hobby was cheap w/ my first labu-labo setup costing me only 30k. I got the cheapest HT stuff I could get my hands on. But then I joined PDVD and the upgrade bug bit me (WARNING! ), and my once frugal (kurips) way of life was never the same... oh well, at least I am helping the economy, hehe.

Anyway seriously, your room is 50% of the HT experience. Even a million peso setup will sound bad on a poorly conceived room. Plan it well and your HT will be quite a rewarding experience. I am also a believer in power so let me repeat the last sentence w/ a modification : Power it well and your HT will be quite a rewarding experience.

Season's greetings & more power to everyone's HT!