Topic: BREAKING NEWS: The War is Over - Toshiba Gives Up on HD DVD

[av_phile1]

errr 17 companies hold BD patents, its not Sony who has the bigger share of the IP, its Panasonic, Sony kinda just became more known coz of its decision to put a BD drive in the PS3

Yes,  Panasonic under MEI (Matsus**ta) was the original in the concept and research.  But it was SOny and Pioneer who had parallel and complementing concepts and made the prototypes as early as 2000.  And it was to Sony's credit that they allied with their former enemy in the VHS-Beta format wars. With mighty MEI in the technology department and the marketing savvy of SONY, they have a better footing in the ensuing format wars.   But I don't think Sony's prominence in the HD wars started because they insisted on putting the BD drive in the PS3.  The HD war was already being fought earlier than that with Sony at the helm of the marketing psyche wars in media long before.  Panasonic was conspicuously very silent in all these.  You can say that Sony is the most visible and most vocal advocate in the media for the BD side in the format war.  That's why Sony is the easiest to get the flak, rightly or wrongly.  The same can be said of Toshiba with HD DVD in the DVD consortium.

A note on the BDA.  This is a commercial and licensing body created to further develop the format and integrate all the necessary patents to make BD work and functions as a one-stop shop for licensing BD to any CE interested in selling the product.  It was created in March 2002, years after the core fundamental patents for BD have already been granted to MEI and Sony.  Yes, Sony on its own does not have all the patents for BD.  But with all things considered, it is SONY that would have lost the most if it didn't win the format war. Prestige and its share prices being the overriding losses they couldn't afford.  Little to do with the technology patents. Hopefully the other members of the BDA can release BD players cheaper than what Sony has and will have.  But they would still have to pay for the core technology patents owned by a few companies, notably Sony and Panasonic.  The BDA is supposed to share those patents among its contributors.  But those deals are not for public use and I would suspect the licences for these could be steep.  Maybe their $50,000 and 20,000 annual membership fees as board member and contributors, respectively,  to the BDA will take care of that. 

[dmaximus]

haay. this is sad. magsasamantala na ang blu ray nyan. kawawa kaming mga mahihirap. hehe.

[av_phile1]

haay. this is sad. magsasamantala na ang blu ray nyan. kawawa kaming mga mahihirap. hehe.

Lagi namang kawawa ang mahihirap eh.  Sa lahat ng bagay.  In the first place, they're not supposed to indulge in High Def.  At least not at this time. Medyo upscale/elitist at may snob appeal pa yan.   Magtiyaga na muna tayo sa DVD.      Malupit ba?

[darkwing]

errr Sony was voted by the BDA as its spokesperson that's why ^_^ anyways if you check the avg price of BD and HD-DVD in Amazon, halos the same, mas cheaper nga ng 50 cents ang BD lols http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/ cheaper talaga ang HD-DVD player kasi heavily subsidize ng Toshiba et al. ^_^ anyways enough of this war which just ended, have to decide which to buy during March, dami maganda, I, Robot or I am Legend 

[Clondalkin]

Come to think of it, the fact that Toshiba priced their HD DVD player in much more consumer friendly level could have been one of the reasons for its lack of support from CEs and retailers.  Even in Japan, those HDD and HD DVD-R recording capable Toshiba HD DVD models are no more than half the prices of equivalent Sony and Pany BD/BD-R/HDD recorders...practically the same functionality and the latest high tech features except for the format of the high def disk.  And perhaps for that reason, the CEs and retailers would rather sell the more expensive format because the potential for profit looks better.  Afterall the HDM is still very much a niche market.   Why would a CE support a new technology video player if the leading company already sells it for less than $200 within 2 years from its commercial release, not to mention the threat of Chinese "equivalent" products?    Potential for profit from hardware sales is biggest during the growth stage of the market.

But given the situation as it is, not that I'm bothered at all, but I don't know how the other BD player makers would actually compete against the PS3 and be profitable.  And as many people think, B1G1 will be a thing of the past.

It doesn't matter who the actual head of BDA is.  Within the belly of the beast, every Japanese who reads or listens to some kind of news understands Blu-ray = Sony and Toshiba = HD DVD, much like Plasma = Panasonic while LCD = LCD.  But what difference does it make.

[darkwing]

well one thing is for sure, its going to be an interesting week ^_^ Stay tuned....

[Moks007]

errr everybody is forgetting that Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Samsung, LG etc... are also selling BD drives and in Europe alone, HD discs (including HD-DVD) is outpacing the growth of the DVD since it started

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/international/news/e3if908f8e7990b7157065a14eacddd44ae

"The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) announced today that they have broken the two million discs sold milestone in Europe, only two months after selling their one millionth disc. According to research done by GfK International, a total of 2.4M Blu-ray discs have been sold across Europe since the format launched. This equates to 79% of the high definition market.

In December alone, a half million Blu-ray discs were sold during the important holiday season. The biggest seller during this time was 'Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End' which sold nearly 100,000 units. Coming in second was 'The Simpsons Movie' followed by 'Casino Royale'. During this time, Blu-ray sold at a 3-to-1 ratio over rival high definition formats.

When comparing this success to DVD, the results are even more impressive. The second year of DVD resulted in 230,000 players and 2M discs sold. For Blu-ray, it has resulted in 3.5M players (3.2M PS3s and 340,000 standalone players) and 2.3M Blu-ray discs sold."

i doubt things will slow down now that the format war is over and again BD is not Sony's format, its Matsus**ta(Panasonic), Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp and Samsung also

I may be wrong here, but somebody out there that is very good in math pls tell me if my calculation/formula is correct
Second year:
DVD = Discs sold = 2,000,000
          ------------------------------- =  8.69 discs per unit
         Players sold = 230,000

Bluray = Disc sold = 2,300,000
          ------------------------------- = 0.65 discs per unit
         Players sold = 3,500,000

I know, I know attach rate argument again, but this really dont make sense to me, I don't know what BDA is bragging about with these figures. Can somebody  tell me if my calculation is right? Or are all these BD figures inflated. I still don't get their argument this is better than dvd's second year figures

2,300,000 disc sales or O.65 attach rate is pitiful

They may be comparing 3.5 million players vs. 230,000 dvd players and 2,300,000 versus 2,000,000 discs sold

[darkwing]

aha you are counting the PS3, mahirap i count who bought this one just for movies or games ^_^ don't forget that was just the 2nd year ^_^

[Mouldingo]

MY TWO CENTS - 2/16/08 - by Digital Bits editor Bill Hunt





According what we've been able to gather from various stories in the Japanese press, Toshiba management was meeting very soon anyway (probably next week) to officially pull the plug, but the timetable may have been moved up given last week's retailer announcements. Someone at Toshiba HQ apparently leaked the information to the Japanese media Saturday afternoon (Tokyo time) and the thought is that leaking it early will make it easier for the company to make an official announcement, possibly as soon as Monday (thanks to Keiko S. for the links and information).

All that's left now IS for Toshiba to make an official statement, followed (or perhaps preceded) by long-awaited announcements of Blu-ray Disc support from Universal and Paramount, which we now expect very soon. Word is that Paramount will be able to quickly shift gears back to Blu-ray, as they already have experience working with the format (and some unreleased BD titles have already been replicated - think the titles that were cancelled last year at the last minute when the studio abandoned Blu-ray - or at least have finished masters ready for replication). Universal on the other hand, will take longer to ramp up, as they're at least two years behind the other Hollywood studios in working with the format (though one would expect the BDA to provide them help in getting up to speed as quickly as possible).

On that note, we've suddenly begun hearing from multiple retail sources that new Paramount Blu-ray titles have just begin appearing in their inventory software as "on order" or "available for pre-order," including Blades of Glory and (apparently) Transformers. Yes, you read that right. We have yet to officially confirm this, but we're working to get more information on it. For the record, I was unable to get a response from Paramount on Friday (they seem to be in a bit of a media "lockdown" mode at the moment - which is probably no surprise given last week's events).

This is it folks. This thing was messy and costly and, in many of the online enthusiast forums, at times mean-spirited and downright bloody. But it's OVER. And as far as we're concerned here at The Bits... IT'S ABOUT GODd**n TIME!!!



Pardon the French (and the pun), but d**n. TWO YEARS of this bulls--t!

We'll bring you more as it comes in. Stay tuned...

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

[Mouldingo]

CNBC:Toshiba to Give Up HD DVD, Give in to Sony: Source

Toshiba is planning to give up on its HD DVD format for high definition DVDs, conceding defeat to the competing Blu-Ray technology backed by Sony, a company source said on Saturday.

The move will likely put an end to a battle that has gone on for several years between consortiums led by Toshiba and Sony vying to set the standard for the next-generation DVD and compatible video equipment.

The format war, often compared to the Betamax-VHS battle in the 1980s, has confused consumers unsure of which DVD or player to buy, slowing the development what is expected to be a multibillion dollar high definition DVD industry.

Toshiba's cause has suffered several setbacks in recent weeks including Friday's announcement by U.S. retailing giant Wal-Mart that it would abandon the HD DVD format and only stock its shelves with Blu-ray movies.

A source at Toshiba confirmed an earlier report by public broadcaster NHK that it was getting ready to pull the plug. "We have entered the final stage of planning to make our exit from the next generation DVD business," said the source, who asked not to be identified. He added that an official announcement could come as early as next week.

No one answered the phone at Toshiba's public relations office in Tokyo.

NHK said Toshiba would suffer losses running to tens of billions of yen (hundreds of millions of dollars) to scrap production of HD DVD players and recorders and other steps to withdraw from the business.

Hollywood studios had initially split their alliances between the two camps, meaning only certain films would play on any one DVD machine.

The balance of power tipped decisively toward the Sony camp in January after Time Warner studio said it would only release high-definition DVDs in Blu-ray format. With that, studios behind some three-quarters of DVDs are backing Blu-ray, although some release in both formats.

Toshiba responded by slashing prices of HD DVD players, but the loss of retail support has hurt.

In addition to Wal-Mart, consumer electronics chain Best Buy and online video rental company Netflix also recently signed up to the Blu-ray camp.

The exclusive backing of Microsoft was also put in doubt when the software giant said in January that it could consider supporting Blu-ray technology for its Xbox 360 video game machine, which currently works only with HD DVD.

Sony has spent large sums of money to promote Blu-ray in tandem with its flat screen TVs and its PlayStation 3 game console, which can play Blu-ray movies.

The Toshiba source said the experience would not be a total loss for the sprawling conglomerate, whose products range from refrigerators to power plants, which would learn valuable lessons.

"Marketing was a weak point for Toshiba. We learned a lot from HD DVD. Strengthening marketing will continue to be an issue for us going forward," the source said.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/23196949

[av_phile1]

Heads probably should start rolling in Toshiba's marketing and public relations department.   I have already opined in another forum that Toshiba's HD DVD presence in many AV media and showrooms is pathetic right from the start.  They have failed to muster support from CEs and didn't go far enough with studios even when it was clear from the start who had a reasonably good headstart as far as market penetration for standalone players was. They had Round One of the war in their favor.  Their attach rates was high.  They were prepared to undertake a price war.  And they had the Chinese manufacturers to support HD DVD.  And they failed miserably to follow it up with the right advertising and information campaign to neutralize the Sony BD juggernaut for their target markets, nor did they have the diplomatic PR muscle to win away the CEs and studios from BD. 

At the end of the day, the slow pick-up of HD sales prompted distributors like Wal-Mart and Blockbuster and now Warner to decide who should win the war.  They could have picked HD DVD, but Toshiba's strategy of heavy discounting hurt them as much as helped them drum up sales.  Indeed, as Clondalkin has pointed out above, none of the CEs found the profit margins for HD DVD attractive enough to support the format, if at all there is any profit. And with just a handful of CEs on their side, even if the studios were split almost in the middle supporting both, the major distributors didn't find it a prudent business decision to choose HD DVD.  It was more expedient to choose BD as it would now be a lot easier and faster to flood the market with BD players from the many CEs in BD's fold starting now.  Had they sided with HD DVD, it will still take a long time for the CEs to switch sides. 

In the VHS-Beta format wars, it was the market that decided who won after a rather long war.  This time, with only 2% market penetration, the market was in no position to decide the war and would rather sit it out.  Early adopters who mostly comprised the 2% of the HT market had players for both formats.  It was the distributors who decided the war.  This is going to be an excellent case study at graduate schools everywhere. 

[Moks007]

aha you are counting the PS3, mahirap i count who bought this one just for movies or games ^_^ don't forget that was just the 2nd year ^_^

But again check out the statement they said. They said bluray has sold 3.5 million PLAYERS ( 3.2 PS3 340,000 standalones.
They are counting the ps3, bec they say 3.5 PLAYERS. Based on standalones only the attach rate is 6.76 (2.3M divided by 340,000 Standalone), If you count the Ps3's pa used for bluray then your attach rate will be so low that its so disappointing. Assuming 20% use ps3 as players, then its only 2.34 attach rate ( 2.3 M divided by 340,000 + 640,000) I think the ps3 used as bd players is more than 20%, which will put the attach rate to near zero.

Let's just see nalang what will happen after hddvd is gone, and the so called baloney "confusion" is gone. I say baloney "confusion" is for one reason only. A lot are arguing about they dont want 2 formats bec daw it causes confusion like playing a hddvd disc on a bluray player or vice versa, or some other reasons. If sa disc lang they are confused, what more for doing FW updates for players. People argue that their kids can do it for them, most people are high tech now (its the so-called computer age). I really dont think so imo. Thats why I dont believe in this confusion two format baloney. If they cant figure out Red cover disc in toshiba and blue case disc in Sony, panasonic etc. To me this is the most simple thing to do, simpler than connecting to net and doing upgrades, restart etc. etc. Imagine pa if they will download it and put it in disc. It gets more complicated for some.

[pekspert]

Payoffs? i wonder where you got those sources, even that $500m payoff was just an imagining of some blogger which some news site picked up which has long since corrected them, anyways I'm glad this war is over, oh wait some HD-DVD die hards are even pushing for downloads vs BD @_@

do you really believe that a public company like bestbuy or walmart would publicly admit that they chose the other format because they were offered money? of course all youll hear are rumours because you wouldnt hear a public confirmation from those companies......err you might as well believe too the PNP official explanation that the glorietta explosion was caused by methane gas

[Moks007]

do you really believe that a public company like bestbuy or walmart would publicly admit that they chose the other format because they were offered money? of course all youll hear are rumours because you wouldnt hear a public confirmation from those companies......err you might as well believe too the PNP official explanation that the glorietta explosion was caused by methane gas

Yup its all about money, studios and the CE  will make money on the higher priced blu-ray. It's really a no-brainer for them who to support. All of them get incentives Im sure.

[av_phile1]

Let's just see nalang what will happen after hddvd is gone, and the so called baloney "confusion" is gone. I say baloney "confusion" is for one reason only. A lot are arguing about they dont want 2 formats bec daw it causes confusion like playing a hddvd disc on a bluray player or vice versa, or some other reasons. If sa disc lang they are confused, what more for doing FW updates for players. People argue that their kids can do it for them, most people are high tech now (its the so-called computer age). I really dont think so imo. Thats why I dont believe in this confusion two format baloney. If they cant figure out Red cover disc in toshiba and blue case disc in Sony, panasonic etc. To me this is the most simple thing to do, simpler than connecting to net and doing upgrades, restart etc. etc. Imagine pa if they will download it and put it in disc. It gets more complicated for some.

yes, the confusion seems real on the surface.  But it's mostly from the vast majority of HT enthusiasts who until now,  still can't even figure out the settings for their multichannel DVD set-up.  What more for high def.  You'd be amazed how many have Plasma and LCD TVs still using composite or s-video connections to their progressive scan DVD players.    We at PDVD are a lot more informed than most. 

And when BD has so much presence and hype in the media while the other camp hasn't, there really isn't so much confusion as total and partial ignorance about the other side that offers a more mature product.   And for that, I put the blame for the demise of HD DVD squarely on the shoulders of Toshiba and the DVD consortium.   

[Mouldingo]

Back to the subject... everything is under the bridge now. HD DVD has lost and will be forgotten with all the other failed technology, a lot of which are Sony products BTW...hehehe.

[krazy]

Back to the subject... everything is under the bridge now. HD DVD has lost and will be forgotten with all the other failed technology, a lot of which are Sony products BTW...hehehe.

But this isn't the first time a Sony product won a format war, the first was actually a much less publicized format war in the professional/broadcast TV industry where Sony's BetaCam (Betamax's professional cousin) became the industry standard, beating out Panasonic/JVC's M2 format (based on VHS) which was a complete flop

[darkwing]

yeah parang OT na tayo ^_^ lets see what the PR guys at Tos hiba will say about this ^_^ tomorrow is going to be interesting, will Paramount return to the BD fold? will Universal finally admit defeat? the drama continues.....

[Clondalkin]

The most interesting thing that can happen tomorrow is if Toshiba does not announce anything or deny NHK's Saturday night prime news.    .

[Moks007]

Im really naman in favor of HDM to succeed no matter what. It really blows away dvd, I tried watching straight one to two months hdm bec I have lots of catching up to do and I went back to watch a couple of dvd this weekend. Man it was frustrating bec I am looking for the clearer picture. Of course I dont have the hi-end dvd players or video processors so maybe those will make the film closer to hidef. But with what I have im really looking for the clearer picture na close to hidef and its really malayo to hidef.

I really think they should make things simpler for the consumers like putting fw upgrades in the disc, and not brick the player. More excellent transfers. Not just 3 to 31/2 stars. They should make it all worth it. Now the big question is will they? There are tons of films that studios might not remaster  or have really good quality transfers to make it worth the upgrade. This is my main concern. However sometimes you cant help but to buy the film because of sale, bogo, or buy 2 take 3.

[darkwing]

The most interesting thing that can happen tomorrow is if Toshiba does not announce anything or deny NHK's Saturday night prime news.    .

or run that rehashed press statement template again 

[techdude]

Just a thought, these bribes from Toshiba and Sony, for studios to switch sides are against Trust laws, isn't it?

Oh well, Bluray was saved by PS3 (without which standalone HD-DVD players would have sold more).   And now, PS3 will be saved by Bluray, as the anticipated sale boost will make it a contender to Wii and X360 in the console wars)...

[Battousai]

BLu Ray winning the format war is all the more reason to finally get a PS3. 

[Clondalkin]

BLu Ray winning the format war is all the more reason to finally get a PS3. 

I would be looking forward to Microsoft's move.

[av_phile1]

The silence from Microsoft at this time is deafening. 

[chinista]

viva la bluray!

[john5479]

Microsoft is pushing for downloadable content anyway and they can still push VC1 as the standard for encoding videos in Bluray.

[juneaki]

After the format war, wil there be a format civil war?

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/blu-ray-format-war-civil-war

[darkwing]

hmmmm interesting Toshiba Japan hasn't issued any formal statements yet @_@ was NHK just blowing hot air? @_@

[Mr. Hankey]

was NHK just blowing hot air?

Come on, that's NHK. It's not as if it was reported on TV Patrol.