Author Topic: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?  (Read 26434 times)

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Offline @nk71

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #90 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 08:20 PM »
Yes lalo na kapag mahabang wires ang requirement mo...pero kung 2-3mtrs lang u need a DIGITAL ear to distinguish it  ;D...
for me I'll just go for an ordinary wire and invest my money on a powerful amp, thus no need for an expensive wire 

« Last Edit: Mar 18, 2008 at 08:38 PM by @nk71 »

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #91 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 10:32 PM »


and then what? turn your HT room into a BOSE demo room? ohlala...



Then you can demand sales commissions for every BOSE sold from your home.   ;D

Offline JojoD818

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #92 on: Mar 18, 2008 at 10:49 PM »
Then you can demand sales commissions for every BOSE sold from your home.   ;D


You have an excellent point there... but that should mean I must think like those people from BOSE...  ;D ;D ;D



Offline ATJr.

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #93 on: Mar 19, 2008 at 05:09 AM »
come to think of it, i never met a BOSE i did not like, they really sound good, and who can argue with sucess? ;D ;D ;D

the only thing that bothered me was that they had to go on an agressive marketing and advertising, that is why the higher selling price compared to unit costs....oh well, AMIR BOSE did his homework very well...

that is why i can understand it when some people will go at any lenght to promote/sell a product, that is business..... ;D ;D ;D

ain't nothing wrong with that eh?...... ; ;) :D ;D
i am for the masses, those many who do not have lots and lots of moolah but would like to enjoy good sounds.....i hope they do not develop this idea that they have to spend a lot to get there... ;D
« Last Edit: Mar 19, 2008 at 05:15 AM by TonyT »
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Offline ATJr.

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #94 on: Mar 19, 2008 at 05:19 AM »
OT:-- uhm, i understand what you meant, but while espousing open-mindedness, in the same breath you were making sweeping generalizations and denigrating jeepney drivers/tricycle drivers, implying that ALL of them are of less education than you (us), and worse implying that they are necessarily rude and impolite just because they are not as "educated".

this is not something new though.  the "aristocrati" have long looked down upon the "masses" and associated civility with education (and money), implying that the more education  (money) you have, the more good mannered you are. but i tend to disagree.

in my experience, those of "less" education (money) are in fact more civil and good-natured than those who have "more education". they might not know which spoon or fork to use for a certain dish but they are not necessarily rude because they eat with their hands.  in fact i find that those with "more education" (and money) are more arrogant and prone to engaging in "pataasan ng ihi"-- the reason why they often smell so bad.

anyway, back to regular programming.


if civility meant turning a blind eye on unpalatable postings, then i would rather be rude.......promise..... ;D :D ;)
« Last Edit: Mar 19, 2008 at 05:20 AM by TonyT »
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Offline av_phile1

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #95 on: Mar 19, 2008 at 08:53 AM »

the only thing that bothered me was that they had to go on an agressive marketing and advertising, that is why the higher selling price compared to unit costs....oh well, AMIR BOSE did his homework very well...



Yup,  Dr. Amar Bose did his homework alright.  That's why he became a Dr.   ;D Don't squarely address audiophile fundamentals because they are expensive.  So, address other considerations, like the wife factor;  never allow your product to be compared with others on the sales floor; give as little information on the brochure, the market won't know the difference; capitalize on the sound of a well engineered accoustics in your demo room because as a Dr., he knows what the ears get, that's cheaper in the long run; appeal to the market's sense of awe with a price tag higher than the rest.  ;D

Mediocrity requires aggressive marketing.  But a great product always sells on its own with just a little advertising.   ;D
« Last Edit: Mar 19, 2008 at 09:13 AM by av_phile1 »

Offline aHobbit

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #96 on: Mar 19, 2008 at 06:26 PM »

if civility meant turning a blind eye on unpalatable postings, then i would rather be rude.......promise..... ;D :D ;)

Questioning a belief system will always be that, questioning. However, to some, questioning is considered an attack - even to a personal level. And as I have explained in other threads, some people, no matter how finesse you issue your questions, will still be viewed just the same, an attack.

To some people, keeping mum on something that is questionable, is a sign of respect.

I just don't know where education is coming in here if we maintain these attitudes.

If we expect to learn, be ready to be validated ... and revalidated ...

it always takes two to tango ... one can not blame just one party ... if there is an argument, then there is at least 2 parties involved - 2 parties to blame. Short of saying probably there are 2 magaspang parties, or 2 uneducated debaters, or 2 richie educated pasaways!

as with BOSE, even if you change your IC and speaker cable in their listening room, will not make magic! ... simply because they attended to the real issues which affect much of the listening. But who says their price is right or wrong - it is always relative (subjective), so does "high end audiophilia" gears.
« Last Edit: Mar 19, 2008 at 06:55 PM by aHobbit »
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Offline aHobbit

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #97 on: Mar 19, 2008 at 06:42 PM »
wow, so what happens when you bring it home?

The same thing when you bring home a "high end" expensive cables!  ;D


Yes lalo na kapag mahabang wires ang requirement mo...pero kung 2-3mtrs lang u need a DIGITAL ear to distinguish it  ;D...
for me I'll just go for an ordinary wire and invest my money on a powerful amp, thus no need for an expensive wire 

... or invest in a more efficient speaker system ... simple solution to a simple problem - the right resources in the right place ... way to go bro!


Quote
Mediocrity requires aggressive marketing.  But a great product always sells on its own with just a little advertising.   ;D

In Memoriam : VHS vs Betamax (RIP) / Windows vs OS/2 (RIP) / Lucky Mac, still alive struggling with Win!  ;D
                  Suddenly got a weird feeling BOSE will survive the high end market while the rest goes RIP little by little!  ;D  ;D  ;D
« Last Edit: Mar 19, 2008 at 07:00 PM by aHobbit »
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Offline ATJr.

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #98 on: Mar 20, 2008 at 10:58 AM »
Quote
If we expect to learn, be ready to be validated ... and revalidated ...


Exatly my point also, i hope pinoydvd does not turn into a personality cult, wherein one person speak and others accept blindly with out questioning.....the lesson from the Jim Jhones mass suicide should be a lesson for ages....

personally i do not see anything beyond cables as the copper and plastic insulation they contain, be they the el-cheapo one or the really expensive ones...when you strip them open, you will only find copper and plastics....that is all there is...

but to those who really can hear differences with expensive cables, perhaps this could shed some light...http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aMDUAPg7IXDo&refer=home and this http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html?tag=newsmap

expensive things are really a joy to have..... ;D


« Last Edit: Mar 20, 2008 at 11:00 AM by TonyT »
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Offline ATJr.

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #99 on: Mar 20, 2008 at 11:02 AM »
Quote
  Suddenly got a weird feeling BOSE will survive the high end market while the rest goes RIP little by little!


i have no doubts too.... ;D
That's OK, you can like or dislike anything you choose. That's the wonderful thing about the freedom

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #100 on: Mar 20, 2008 at 11:23 AM »

but to those who really can hear differences with expensive cables, perhaps this could shed some light...http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aMDUAPg7IXDo&refer=home and this http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html?tag=newsmap

expensive things are really a joy to have..... ;D


Weird that they should have such a test at this time when I have known that all along right from my psychology 101 class in college.  ;D  The power of suggestion has been known by marketeers ever since - anything pricier is always perceived to be better.

That infamous reverse DBT cable test conducted years ago confirmed this. Just can't remember the site to refer it to.  The tester announced that cable A used ordinary cable and cable B used an expensive cable brand.  All the audiophile subjects said the sound coming from the expensive cable was better; when all the while the cables for A and B both used the same cheap hardware variety cable.  When it was revealed to them, the subjects stormed the testing room in disgust because the test threw their cherished beliefs out the window.  ;D

Never underestimate the power of suggestion.  It's a favourte among marketeers to con the elitist market.  One pundit at audioholics asserted that expensive cables are the biggest SCAM in the audiophile industry.  There's just no governing regulatory agency over cables.  And anyone is free to foist their "engineering" claims for cables that are totally irrelevant for the audio passband.

But as long as you have the money to burn, why not?  It's always a joy to have the most expensive things surround you.  And that's well known to marketeers.  ;D
« Last Edit: Mar 20, 2008 at 11:54 AM by av_phile1 »

Offline allan1836

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #101 on: Mar 20, 2008 at 02:34 PM »
Anybody wondered, if these hi-end cable companies are just sister companies of those hi-end amps and speaker manufacturers? Since , hi-end audio electronic equipments has, in a way, almost perfected their craft with almost o% THD (etc.), and almost reach the saturation point in coming out with new gimmicks to stir the consumers, notwithstanding the competition from the  rise in A/V products. I think they need to diverse and come out with new ways to earn a profit, thus, branching out to hi-end cables, power cords, ic, power station, etc.  ;D   

I also wondered, why the audiophiles of the so called "golden years", have been contented without this pricy cables and accessories. The main focus then is the equipments and speakers and funny enough, most of them also experience the audio euphoria we, at present, try experience. But  the main difference today is , we tend to be more complicated. We feel that only half of the success is attained without this "magical" cables and accessories.  :-\ Hmmm .....
« Last Edit: Mar 20, 2008 at 02:35 PM by allan1836 »

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #102 on: Mar 20, 2008 at 03:45 PM »
There's really no limit in the world of business as to what product you can sell as long as marketeers can create the demand.  That's what marketing is, creating demand. 

There was never a need for disposable razor blades but Gillette was able to create the demand for them and now you have 3-bladed and 4-bladed disposables that turn on the profit faucets to Gillette.  And I might live long enough to see 10-bladed disposable razors.  ;D

There was never a need for walkman radios and players but Sony successfully marketed the concept and now the MP3 players are just your technological evolution for them.  And for most young people, they can't live without them.  ;D

There was never a need for cellphones with cameras and video/audio capabilities but the demand for them now is such that virtually no one buys a cellphone these days without them.

And there was never a need for Havaianas for such lowly slippers and you now see them everywhere.  My goodness, $20 for a pair of slippers?   But I can understand, if you can have a high demand for $500 Bally and Bruno Magli shoes, why not slippers? 

If slippers can be priced so expensively, why not cables?  You have a large market looking for something new and cables have sprung up as a profitable industry on its own backed by so called new "breakthrough" researches on the behavior of cable properties to justify pricing their modified cables so high.  I assure you there is nothing about cables that have not been understood by our great grandfathers but are only now being hyped to ridiculous  levels to create a demand for exotic alambre.

The only cables I know that can really make dramatic differences in conduction are the nitrogen-cooled super conductors used in particle accelerators.  See if you can have one for your sound system.   ;D  And you won't hear any argument from me about a "day-and-night" difference some people claim to hear with exotic cables.   ;D

I don't think these cable scammers are allied with the high-end audiophile gears.  But the marketing logic is there.  If there's a demand for high end players, amps and speakers, why not have high end cables as well? Great.  The only difference is that high end audiophile gears do have something superior in them to show for their ridiculous prices, such as a tank-like bullet-proof build you can find in Perraux and Bryston amps.  Or a 20 year transferable warranty only Bryston offers.  Or a turntable with a massive platter that depends on sheer inertia to silence out rumble noise that no mass turntable can offer. 

But cables?  I hate to say it but I tend to agree with audioholics that this is a SCAM in the audiophile industry.   There is absolutely nothing in cables you can do to make it more transparent than just using pure 99.99%  material, having uniform built throughout its length, getting the right gauge for the length one needs and making the proper terminations.   Most of their claimed benefits from altering the geometry and reactive qualities of their cable apply only to frequencies outside human hearing.  Anything you do to alter the reactive qualities of cables high enough to matter in the audio passband will just increase ruining the audio signals that go through it.  And you pay top money for that?  Now if you use nitrogen-cooled superconductors, that's a different story.   ;D

But hey, if you can afford them, why not?  I don't mind using havaianas.  In fact I also have pabder and florsheim shoes.  Like I said, there's always the joy of having expensive stuff around the house.  ;D  Now if only I can afford the new Rolls Royce Phantom even if I know its sybaritic luxury is not twice that of a new Camry or its technologies and materials no better than a BMW 7 series.  But the heads turning and jaws dropping as you drive down the road on a Phantom would be priceless.  ;D
« Last Edit: Mar 21, 2008 at 12:29 AM by av_phile1 »

Offline Weng!

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #103 on: Mar 21, 2008 at 02:09 AM »
do these high end cable companies manufacture their own cable? i'm afraid that they only source out the bare wires from regular wire manufacturers and cover them with their proprietary jackets. remember there was a thread about dai-ichi making Monster cables for export?

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #104 on: Mar 21, 2008 at 02:36 AM »
There was actually a scandal about a high end cable maker re-branding imported wholesale china-made generic cables and pricing them ridiculously.   ;D
« Last Edit: Mar 21, 2008 at 03:11 AM by av_phile1 »

Offline Weng!

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #105 on: Mar 21, 2008 at 03:06 AM »
i think it is very expensive for the hi-end cable company to purchase machineries to build raw wires if their market target is only the hi-end users. meaning small scale lang ang customers nila. kaya siguro ipa sub contract nalang nila ang bare wire. then they may only have the jacket assembly line to make it hi-end ;D

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #106 on: Mar 21, 2008 at 03:14 AM »
Your suspicions are valid.  Same way as some Mark Levinson and Theta models are re-packaged from some flagship consumer mass-fi electronics and re-branded as high end and priced 5x in the market.  At least they are re-housed in truly impressive cases.   ;D

Offline allan1836

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #107 on: Mar 31, 2008 at 03:18 PM »
sir av_phile1, your assumptions are very true specially the part wherein, different cables just create different sound. Not necessarily better or worse or accurate but different. I might also assume that audiophiles tend to buy various cables in hoping to improve the sound of their set-up but in truth, are just so hard to be satisfied and contented (read: SARS in our language!  ;D). They buy this cables to experience a new sound but not necessarily better I may say. It is similar to upgrading the electronics or speakers in a way, we tend to be bored with an old set-up even though its already very musical.  :)
I have nothing against this pricey cable, it won't hurt to add pogi points to a system  ;D But the main objective, which is to improve the overall sound of a set-up, is highly debatable.  ;) 
 

Offline MAtZTER

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #108 on: Apr 01, 2008 at 02:55 PM »
OT:-- uhm, i understand what you meant, but while espousing open-mindedness, in the same breath you were making sweeping generalizations and denigrating jeepney drivers/tricycle drivers, implying that ALL of them are of less education than you (us), and worse implying that they are necessarily rude and impolite just because they are not as "educated".

this is not something new though.  the "aristocrati" have long looked down upon the "masses" and associated civility with education (and money), implying that the more education  (money) you have, the more good mannered you are. but i tend to disagree.

in my experience, those of "less" education (money) are in fact more civil and good-natured than those who have "more education". they might not know which spoon or fork to use for a certain dish but they are not necessarily rude because they eat with their hands.  in fact i find that those with "more education" (and money) are more arrogant and prone to engaging in "pataasan ng ihi"-- the reason why they often smell so bad.

anyway, back to regular programming.

Emma Mao, ikaw ba yan?

http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=64943.0

Or just some guy who watched too many FPJ & Sharon Cuneta movies?  :D

Sweeping generalization? by who? you or me? If thats your interpretation then I apologize to the good jeepney & toda drivers. But the place where I work is THE worst case scenario for toda & jeep discipline. Its a warzone here and I dont apologize to the bad ones. Maybe because I drive a MASA car so they treat me that way  ;).

Pissing contests never intend to hurt anyone, the only ones affected are the insecure. There are no "victims" there. Why dont you discuss about crab mentality? There is something inherently premeditated & evil (there are victims) about it that makes such perpetrators not just stink, they are despicable and puke inducing.

Let me point you to where you can echo your viewpoint at so many threads here:
Show me your... (all)
Whats your latest...(dvd, CD, HD) purchase (all)
What the latest addition to your system
HT gallery

etc.

I view all these threads for inspiration, not for feeling a lack of something and venting it out on another thread. I will get more positive Kharmic points feeling happy for these people and working hard to save up for my dream setup,  instead of pulling others down.  :)

Hehe back to regular programming.   ;)
« Last Edit: Apr 01, 2008 at 03:20 PM by MAtZTER »

Offline MAtZTER

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #109 on: Apr 01, 2008 at 03:17 PM »
sir av_phile1, your assumptions are very true specially the part wherein, different cables just create different sound. Not necessarily better or worse or accurate but different. I might also assume that audiophiles tend to buy various cables in hoping to improve the sound of their set-up but in truth, are just so hard to be satisfied and contented (read: SARS in our language!  ;D). They buy this cables to experience a new sound but not necessarily better I may say. It is similar to upgrading the electronics or speakers in a way, we tend to be bored with an old set-up even though its already very musical.  :)
I have nothing against this pricey cable, it won't hurt to add pogi points to a system  ;D But the main objective, which is to improve the overall sound of a set-up, is highly debatable.  ;) 
 

Here is a nice article from WS (from veteran audiophiles who have tried it themselves) :

http://wiredstate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18084&start=0

Very important things to note:

*Invest more on good quality speakers and amps, not IC's & speaker wires. What good is an IC or wire if your speakers arent revealing or your amp is underpowered?

*IC's & speaker wires are not necessarily better, just different. And expensive does not necessarily mean better.

It makes sense then to spend only the small percentage recommended by HT mags for cables, depending on how much you spent for your setup & how revealing it is. This way it is NOT EXPENSIVE relative to what you spent for your setup. So if you buy a revealing 150k speaker 120k amp and 90k CD player, whats an 8k IC to you?

The other opposite , w/c does not make sense, is to buy a not so revealing speaker/setup and invest on a big percentage on cables & IC's thinking it will compensate. This makes IC's expensive relative to the cost of the setup. And the effects might not even be there since the setup isnt revealing enough to make anybody hear a difference.


Makes sense? I think its the wrong approach that makes a cable expensive.
« Last Edit: Apr 01, 2008 at 03:29 PM by MAtZTER »

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #110 on: Apr 03, 2008 at 08:02 PM »
Did you guys know there are ICs costing $3000 and speaker cables costing $5000 per 3 feet pairs?     ;D  Are those the kind you want to get your hands on? 
« Last Edit: Apr 03, 2008 at 08:05 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline barrister

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #111 on: Apr 03, 2008 at 10:05 PM »
Most expensive cable is the Transparent Opus MM:  $30,750.  http://www.aurant.com/signaturefeature.php

Wala bang group buy?  Invite nyo naman si Emma Mao.




Offline frootloops

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #112 on: Apr 03, 2008 at 10:37 PM »
Most expensive cable is the Transparent Opus MM:  $30,750.  http://www.aurant.com/signaturefeature.php

Wala bang group buy?  Invite nyo naman si Emma Mao.

HAHAHAHA!!!! Nabaliw ako dito ah!>....reminiscing ka na sir barrister ah.  ;D 

Yung Transparent Opus parang antenna lang ng TV.   ;D

Offline A.Chua

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #113 on: May 06, 2008 at 01:14 AM »
nice discussion, learned a lot from you guys..

Offline pekspert

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #114 on: May 06, 2008 at 01:31 AM »
Most expensive cable is the Transparent Opus MM:  $30,750.  http://www.aurant.com/signaturefeature.php

Wala bang group buy?  Invite nyo naman si Emma Mao


o nga naman group buy, baka mapababa natin yung price to $28,000 na alng with free shipping :D ;D
84" 100" 120" 150" Motorized or Manual Projector Screens still available. Just pm.

Offline allan1836

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #115 on: May 06, 2008 at 10:23 AM »
HAHAHAHA!!!! Nabaliw ako dito ah!>....reminiscing ka na sir barrister ah.  ;D 

Yung Transparent Opus parang antenna lang ng TV.   ;D

Baka matalo pa yan Transparent Opus ng Erni Barons Super Antenna!!  :D

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #116 on: May 10, 2008 at 09:13 AM »
Most expensive cable is the Transparent Opus MM:  $30,750.  http://www.aurant.com/signaturefeature.php

Wala bang group buy?  Invite nyo naman si Emma Mao.





Mag-contribute na lang mga members who believe in exotic cables.  Then they can have one month each to enjoy a $30T cable from one contributing member to another on rotation.  ;D
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008 at 09:14 AM by av_phile1 »

Offline JojoD818

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #117 on: May 16, 2008 at 11:23 PM »
Mag-contribute na lang mga members who believe in exotic cables.  Then they can have one month each to enjoy a $30T cable from one contributing member to another on rotation.  ;D



depending on the contribution... I imagine the rotation is going to be a very long time to wait!   ;D ;D ;D



Offline alvinthx2

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #118 on: Jun 03, 2008 at 10:55 AM »
To answer the topic question, No

Just have g14 or bigger for your HT or Audio setup (kahit tube and turntable pa) Pero magandang tingnan ang mahal na cables. ;D
STORMAUDIORevel,BAT,VPI,Accuphase,Bryston,Lumagen,Esoteric,PMC,AR,ROON,PURIFI,BENCHMARK,JBL

Offline raptor

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Re: Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
« Reply #119 on: Jul 13, 2008 at 03:32 AM »
Expensive cables really works!!! I bought a Martin Logan Speakers cost me about P500thou speakers only. and cable wires, power cables about 150thou. When you listen to a concert its like you are in the concert. You can hear lots of instruments in detailed!!!! Sound Staging (its like when you closed your eyes and listen to a music you would know where the drums, guitars, bass, vocals are coming) Sometimes it makes me paranoid when i watch movies i could hear a lot of sounds coming from my speakers.....Everytime its like your always on the scene its like almost reality...You will experience this at THE CHANNEL ONE....soon to open....... www.thechannelone.com

Thanks

For this price i cannot find a reason that the sound will be below excellent ... you can actually have the whole band perform live in your house for this price and sleep with the lady lead singer after the concert  ;D  ;D ;D
Marantz NR1200, MartinLogan Motion 20 digital audio setup, and Sony A80J