Author Topic: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy  (Read 22916 times)

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Offline av_phile1

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Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« on: Apr 19, 2008 at 12:56 PM »
To better serve the local HT interests, I would like to suggest it's time to overhaul this forum's policy regarding not discussing Pirated DVDs.  Discussing it is one thing and should be allowed to recognize the realities of local DVD sourcing.  Allowing pirated DVD trading and solicitation is another and I agree that should remain taboo.  Are the owners of this community forum constrained contractually not to discuss this or they'd lose their income from the banner ads of Legit vendors supporting this site?  Just my thoughts.
« Last Edit: Apr 19, 2008 at 01:18 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline firewired

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #1 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 04:12 PM »
Since this point has been raised (and it's not the first time), any other members who'd like to share their thoughts and suggestions/comments?
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Offline indie boi

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #2 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 04:24 PM »
I'm always for a healthy debate, but isn't the issue of piracy such a tired topic already? What else is there to talk about that hasn't been raised in the locked Piracy threads?

Offline barrister

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #3 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 06:30 PM »
What else is there to talk about that hasn't been raised in the locked Piracy threads?

You really want to know?  Baka magulat ka sa sagot.  ;)

Offline indie boi

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #4 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 07:08 PM »
You really want to know?  Baka magulat ka sa sagot.  ;)

Are you basing your comment on the fact that you have read ALL of the locked Piracy topics?

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #5 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 08:22 PM »
I'm always for a healthy debate, but isn't the issue of piracy such a tired topic already? What else is there to talk about that hasn't been raised in the locked Piracy threads?

Not so much the issue of piracy as we've been through that already.  But rather discussing the emergence of the new wave of pirated titles and the individual titles themselves that I've experienced to be of value for their prices.  And I find it a disservice to many members interested on the alternatives that every time a discussion veers to piracy, the thread gets locked. 

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #6 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 08:39 PM »
Since this point has been raised (and it's not the first time), any other members who'd like to share their thoughts and suggestions/comments?

Thank you Firewired for allowing this thread.  For a while I half-expected that when I came back this thread would have been locked away.  Like what happened to the Poll on the issue I raised at the General DVD Discussion a few days ago.

Just to repeat my thoughts on that aborted thread, here:

(1) We are consumers first and foremost.  Any merchandise that provides value for the money is game for consumers.  The realities of local and third world DVD sources can not be represented when one source is treated as if it didn't exist. It certainly won't go away just pretending it doesn't exist.  And over the last 5 years, it is clear pirated DVD business has thrived regardless of how this forum tries to skirt the issues. They have become a potent alternative to the greed of legit distributors and studios hiding behind the skirt of legitimacy to dictate prices and foist lousy packaging at those prices.   To some extent, discussing about these titles and how they compare with legit ones might somehow prompt these legit distributors to improve their shabby products.

(2) We are not law enforcers.   Let the police worry about those pirated DVDs. Unfortunately for the IP owners, our great grandmothers probably have more teeth than our IP law enforcers.   Fact is, much as anyone would want to stamp out illegal DVDs, they are thriving today more than ever.  We should be open enough to admit the reality that PinoyDVD is but a small speck in the local HT market. And whether or not we discuss these things, there will always be patrons of illegal DVDs especially when they offer value at their asking price.  The advent of DVD copies of High Def sources have made clear the creativity and resourcefulness of these alternative sources to market superior copies at half the prices of those legits on SALE. 

(3) Discussing about pirated titles and their sources is one thing.  Allowing for any activity engaging in any trade thereof is another.  The former, when discussed from purely technical and consumer points of  views is a reasonable topic in any forum.  The latter can remain banned.  Discussing about pirated DVDs or even praising a title from them may seem like an endorsement. But an endorsement is not the same as engaging in the trade.  At the end of the day, after all is said, it's really up to the consumer poster whether he wants to go legit or not and takes the risks in his/her choice.  But a forum like this can best serve the interest of its consuming members by showing the pros and cons in any alternative, legit or not.   

(4) This forum is about enabling and showing members how to best enjoy their HT hobby.  That end goal is stymied when we censor a topic that has perhaps one of the most relevance in the engagement of the HT hobby in this part of the world.

So there.  I have no illusions the policy will change anytime soon.  My suggestion is simply that, a suggestion that I feel can be useful to many members here. 

 

« Last Edit: Apr 19, 2008 at 09:21 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline upinsmoke

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #7 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 08:55 PM »
There are a lot of titles out there where the legit market left us no choice (we're not going to pay money to buy a fullscreen version of a movie or poor pixelated version).  There are also plenty of titles that aren't available here but available in Quiapo such as Die Hard 3.  And buying R1 from overseas is too much hassle, cost too much to do it repeatedly and it's equally harmful to our local market as buying the pirated version.  Buying imported items from the marketplace forum doesn't benefit the local dvd industry either.  It only benefits wherever they got it from (Thailand, Japan, HK, US, Euro).

Let's say a particualr title is available at Astro but it's one of those pixelated fullscreen version intended to ripoff its loyal customers who relied on their trust.  That same title is available in Quiapo but it is a DVD9 version 7.91 GB file size, DTS, high-bit rate sourced from blu-ray.  As a hobbiest, the Quiapo one will provide the best experience but on the other hand, it's illegal and it will probably conflict with pinoydvd business since they will most likely carry the crappy version.  Where does pinoydvd stand?  They should at least allow discussion on the quality of pirated dvds compared to the legit ones.  We don't have to talk about where to buy them.

It's just a damn shame we have to form a splinter group (yahoo group) just to talk about this subject.  Is pinoydvd a place where we can discuss freely our HT  hobby or is this simply a front for Astro and dvd reps?

Offline indie boi

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #8 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 09:46 PM »
Not so much the issue of piracy as we've been through that already.  But rather discussing the emergence of the new wave of pirated titles and the individual titles themselves that I've experienced to be of value for their prices.  And I find it a disservice to many members interested on the alternatives that every time a discussion veers to piracy, the thread gets locked. 

Ah, ok. That is indeed different from the locked topics. Personally, I think it would be useful for members (god knows I'd appreciate it :) ) but I think the prickly issue here is that the OMB could flag this site. I know of a couple of forums that had to close down because pirated titles and where to source them were actively discussed. Maybe someone familiar with the law could help bring some light to this issue.

Offline dobler

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #9 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 10:25 PM »
Ah, ok. That is indeed different from the locked topics. Personally, I think it would be useful for members (god knows I'd appreciate it :) ) but I think the prickly issue here is that the OMB could flag this site. I know of a couple of forums that had to close down because pirated titles and where to source them were actively discussed. Maybe someone familiar with the law could help bring some light to this issue.

Sana nga pero lagot tayo kay Edu eh.  ;D

Offline upinsmoke

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #10 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 10:29 PM »
but I think the prickly issue here is that the OMB could flag this site.

They cannot throw you in jail just for talking about it.  We're not selling them.  We just want to talk about the quality of the pirated version compared to the legit version and the titles that are available.  Just like talking about the quality of marijuana is not illegal.

Why ban this topic when we allow discussion of gray market items and where to buy them?  I guess it's alright for now until pinoydvd starts selling LCD TVs.

Offline indie boi

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #11 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 10:30 PM »
You're right, we won't get jailed. But the site could be closed down. Are you prepared for that consequence? I know I'm not.

And I apologize in advance for this comment but Upinsmoke, but you seem to have this strange conspiracy theory about PinoyDVD. I see that you've been a member of PDVD since 2005. I don't remember when the banner ads started to come out but I definitely remember that they were not here before. So that whole crap about this being a front for Astro is not true and definitely uncalled for.
« Last Edit: Apr 19, 2008 at 10:36 PM by indie boi »

Offline DVD_Freak

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #12 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 10:45 PM »
As I see it, there's really a thin line between discussing and endorsing pirated DVDs.  And at times, inevitably goes down the path of comparison between the pirated version and the legit ones where bashing the distributor of legit albeit low quality DVDs would be the end result.  And at least for me....would seem like an endorsement already despite its initial intentions.

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #13 on: Apr 19, 2008 at 11:54 PM »
Ah, ok. That is indeed different from the locked topics. Personally, I think it would be useful for members (god knows I'd appreciate it :) ) but I think the prickly issue here is that the OMB could flag this site. I know of a couple of forums that had to close down because pirated titles and where to source them were actively discussed. Maybe someone familiar with the law could help bring some light to this issue.

Indeed. Perhaps some legal mind can enlighten us if the mere discussion of illegal stuff is ground to have this forum or any online stuff, or even a publication, to be closed down. 

But my goodness, is that all the extent of their teeth?  Closing down a site?  But they can't close down those tiangge stalls selling pirated stuff?   ???
« Last Edit: Apr 20, 2008 at 12:37 AM by av_phile1 »

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #14 on: Apr 20, 2008 at 12:07 AM »
As I see it, there's really a thin line between discussing and endorsing pirated DVDs.  And at times, inevitably goes down the path of comparison between the pirated version and the legit ones where bashing the distributor of legit albeit low quality DVDs would be the end result.  And at least for me....would seem like an endorsement already despite its initial intentions.

That's inevitably the course of any comparison between the two for some or many titles.  You can look at it as bashing the legits for foisting half-hearted products.  But you can also look at it as constructive indictment that can and should wake up these legit vendors to the realities in the market.  They can't continue selling inferior products when the alternative sources peddle superior products at half their SALE prices.  I don't expect them to match the alternative's price levels, because legits will always have to recover a higher production cost that includes paying royalties.  But they must do something to go halfway and give the consumers more value for every peso they spend. 

When, for instance, I'd bring up and praise a BD copy of Spiderman as having a higher bitrate for the main movie than the legit, that can be construed as an endorsement alright.  But I have not spoken about the extra features which definitely the pirated copy does not have.  It is clear I am giving the members a choice of whether to get a better movie-only disc or getting a more complete package from the legit edition.  Is a higher bitrate movie rip costing P70 which will show better when upscaled a better value proposition without those extra features or worst than one costing P350 but with more extra features?  It's up to the members to decide. Afterall, different people have differing value perceptions. But at least, someone presented an alternative.  ;D
« Last Edit: Apr 20, 2008 at 12:36 AM by av_phile1 »

Offline upinsmoke

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #15 on: Apr 20, 2008 at 02:14 AM »
Indeed. Perhaps some legal mind can enlighten us if the mere discussion of illegal stuff is ground to have this forum or any online stuff, or even a publication, to be closed down. 

But my goodness, is that all the extent of their teeth?  Closing down a site?  But they can't close down those tiangge stalls selling pirated stuff?   ???

With all this paranoia on websites getting closed down, how many do you know of that got shut down by our government?  The ones who got shut down were clearly doing something illegal such as uploading/downloading porn, violating copyright material, and prostitution ring.

Yeah I can see it now.  Pinoydvd got shut down by a raid led by Edu holding a cellphone on one hand with Bong on the line.  Later that evening, Sir Firewired was featured on Imbestigador because avphile and upinsmoke was comparing the bit rate quality of Resident Evil legit version to the Quiapo version.  Yes, I can see this happening.  Next week, they'll raid a few teen websites and haul in a bunch of 13 year olds to jail because they've been discussing pirated korean telenovelas they bought from Quiapo.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this website.  It's what got me started collecting legit DVDs, now at 320 titles.  I just don't agree with this one issue.

Offline indie boi

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #16 on: Apr 20, 2008 at 07:52 AM »
Indeed. Perhaps some legal mind can enlighten us if the mere discussion of illegal stuff is ground to have this forum or any online stuff, or even a publication, to be closed down. 

But my goodness, is that all the extent of their teeth?  Closing down a site?  But they can't close down those tiangge stalls selling pirated stuff?   ???

Ganun talaga. Wala silang kickback sa websites and they would look like they're doing their job if they close down forums that talk about sourcing pirated stuff. The same thing's happening in the US right now. Various websites that just offer links to where you can watch streaming videos of movies are being closed down.

Offline pchin

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #17 on: Apr 20, 2008 at 09:31 AM »
As much as I hate to discuss about pirated stuff, av_phile1 does have a point.

Tho I only have a small DVD collection, I have to admit that occassionally I do buy pirated DVDs as I can't afford to buy every single original movie. As it turns out, when I really love a particular movie, then I'll get the original copy. ;D

After having said that I guess it boils down to "moral" issue here not the "crime" matter.
e.g. taking drugs is wrong but do we want to allow a discussion about how to take drugs, where can we buy quality drugs, comparison of quality amoung available drugs, how to get high, etc... yes, merely discussing it is not a crime but its the moral issue that involved. We don't want to send the wrong signal.

However, the pirated DVD discussions can be a healty one esp to those cost-conscious consumers & for some other valid reasons. Perhaps, if such discussion will be allowed mods will have to establish strict guidelines. After all it's just about the harmless DVD & not some dangerous drugs on the street.... ;D
« Last Edit: Apr 20, 2008 at 09:35 AM by pchin »

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #18 on: Apr 20, 2008 at 11:27 AM »

Tho I only have a small DVD collection, I have to admit that occassionally I do buy pirated DVDs as I can't afford to buy every single original movie. As it turns out, when I really love a particular movie, then I'll get the original copy. ;D


Thanks Paul.  That has been my DVD buying pattern too for a long time - get pirated copies and based on that, get legits of those I really like.  And especially when they come in 2-discs, steelbooks or other special packaging. ;D

Quote
After having said that I guess it boils down to "moral" issue here not the "crime" matter.
e.g. taking drugs is wrong but do we want to allow a discussion about how to take drugs, where can we buy quality drugs, comparison of quality amoung available drugs, how to get high, etc... yes, merely discussing it is not a crime but its the moral issue that involved. We don't want to send the wrong signal.

Well, even documents and websites of the Catholic Church discuss about EVIL and their manifestations and where they thrive and how they are done.  Admittedly that is for a different objective - to enable the flock to recognize and fight/turn away from evil. 

I can agree that discussing about where to get good pirated DVDs would be equivalent to discussing where to get restored fenced Nokias or other fenced merchandises.  Same with discussing where in the Metro can you get the best looking prostis or fresh disease-free prostis.   ;D

Any kind of discussion on such topics will inevitably yield both favorable and unfavorable views on them. Posters who will opine favorably border on endorsing them.  But like I said, at the end of day, consumers/posters who read them will have to decide for themselves as mature adults.  As consumers, we buy whatever fits our value perception and value judgement. And as a forum, a community board, or a news media, we should not act as a censor pre-judging on what is good or moral for our readers. In the same vein we don't like movie censors, I would think this forum can best serve its members with the least possible amount of censorship. PinoyDVD, like CNN or other public media can just put a disclaimer like "The views presented here do not reflect that of management."  Even banning pornography can be a debatable issue.  But I myself would not want pornographic discussions to enter PinoyDVD because in the first place, I don't see the technical and consumer relevance of pornographic DVDs in any serious Home Theater hobby. (Like what's the relevance of subwoofers, audyssey EQ and 5.1 surround when watching porn?  ;D)  OTOH, pirated DVDs have a very palpable relevance to the hobby especially in this part of the world.

Quote
However, the pirated DVD discussions can be a healty one esp to those cost-conscious consumers & for some other valid reasons. Perhaps, if such discussion will be allowed mods will have to establish strict guidelines. After all it's just about the harmless DVD & not some dangerous drugs on the street.... ;D

Exactly.  My suggestion to open this up is based purely on recognizing the realities of local DVD sourcing and to serve our members who patronize alternatives.  Let the police do their job. Let a forum do its job. And for PinoyDVD, a more complete job.
« Last Edit: Apr 20, 2008 at 11:42 AM by av_phile1 »

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #19 on: Apr 20, 2008 at 11:59 AM »
Ganun talaga. Wala silang kickback sa websites and they would look like they're doing their job if they close down forums that talk about sourcing pirated stuff. The same thing's happening in the US right now. Various websites that just offer links to where you can watch streaming videos of movies are being closed down.

I certainly don't want to see PinoyDVD closed down because of such discussions. If some legal mind can conclusively point out based on a provision in our IP laws that this poses a real risk to this forum, then I'll retract my suggestion. 

My understanding is that some websites get closed because they offer copyrighted materials or links thereto for pecuniary considerations and thus deprive the copyright owners of their royalties.  But I do visit many blogs and websites, torrent sites and file storing sites that allow free downloads of mp3s and movie files, books and other copyrighted materials.  If they can flourish, why not a mere forum discussing about  pirated materials?   And we do have a thread in the Music section discussing where to get free downloads. 
« Last Edit: Apr 20, 2008 at 12:04 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline barrister

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #20 on: Apr 20, 2008 at 05:11 PM »
If some legal mind can conclusively point out based on a provision in our IP laws that this poses a real risk to this forum, then I'll retract my suggestion. 

I've never heard of any Philippine law that prohibits online discussions about piracy.  I've also never heard of any foreign law to that effect.


My understanding is that some websites get closed because they offer copyrighted materials or links thereto for pecuniary considerations and thus deprive the copyright owners of their royalties.

That's the same way I understand it.

It's a common policy for moderators to prohibit piracy discussions in forums.  But I haven't heard of any forum, domestic or foreign, that was shut down by the government for merely discussing piracy.
« Last Edit: Apr 20, 2008 at 05:15 PM by barrister »

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #21 on: Apr 20, 2008 at 07:50 PM »
What a sigh of relief, then.  ;D   Thanks, Atty.  Unless there are other legal minds out there with contrary opinion, I'd say the coast is clear from a legal point to discuss pirated materials. 

Offline Clondalkin

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #22 on: Apr 21, 2008 at 09:11 AM »
Discussing about pirated contents in forums is very much the lowest end of the stream compared to those torrent sites that offer virtually unlimited access to the very latest and best quality rips there have ever been, but perhaps the risk of legal claims from whoever is probably still there.  I've seen actual registered letters to individuals warning of "Copyright Infringement" issued by Paramount Pictures through their ISP as a result of accessing certain Paramount titles (date and time stamped - can't be denied) from torrent sites. Obviously Hollywood, the FBI and their cohorts outside the US are monitoring the "sources" and can trace the IP addresses of those who access them.  

Are they checking this site too?  Probably yes because I think this is apparently one of the most popular websites in the Philippines, but probably not because in countries like the Philippines it's obviously more meaningful to chase after the factories and sellers of pirated disks than monitor sites like this.  But then again who knows, so whatever the policies of the owners of this popular website with regard to piracy, including mere discussions, technical or otherwise (which I personally find very interesting - and helpful), I just have to fully respect that.

In any case, what else is there to discuss other than the fact that hd-dvd and bd rips converted to DVD compatible format have very much better PQ than original DVDs, have reasonably acceptable AQ depending on the authoring, but certainly lack special features due to memory constraints?

Offline indie boi

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #23 on: Apr 21, 2008 at 10:03 AM »
Amen to that.

Offline upinsmoke

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #24 on: Apr 21, 2008 at 10:37 AM »
I don't talk about piracy in detail here anymore because I do respect the rules here.  You guys can join our little yahoo group and talk about it over there:

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/dibidi

If there's enough participants, we can move it to a more permanent dedicated website.

There's no sense in aggravating pinoydvd.  It's still their board.  There are plenty of other things to talk about here.  Even if they allow the topic, it will still be very restrictive.  The solution is really to have a dedicated site where we can talk freely and exchange information.

For now, join our little splinter group.

Offline firewired

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #25 on: Apr 21, 2008 at 11:53 AM »
Just to make sure that we're all on the same page:

The original piracy thread was shut down for a couple of reasons:
  • To encourage cordial relations with the local distributors and retailers who continue to be sensitive about piracy. It's not illegal to talk about pirated DVDs, but it did make them uncomfortable. Just to set the record straight, we received polite comments, not threats.
  • The "original vs. pirated" debate turned really nasty at certain points, so much so that it was a pain to moderate and quite a number of members were suspended over their behavior.

Much as we tried to sort out the issue, the whole "pirated is better" conclusion always came up despite informed responses from other members. That didn't sit well with people. It would be hypocritical to claim a 100% commitment to original releases in this day and age, but when the discussion became less constructive and openly critical of the establishment, we felt it was time to retire the thread.

By chance, a new forum, "The Q", had just opened its doors so it was convenient to just redirect everyone there. To this very day, some industry people continue to suspect that PinoyDVD was behind "The Q" but that's really not true.

I was actually curious about why some members continue to feel that piracy needs to be discussed again here on PinoyDVD. That's been explained to some extent by the responses on this thread. Still, why not just start a new forum or mailing list (as upinsmoke has done) and invite people to join in? I wouldn't mind pointing people in that direction if they asked.
« Last Edit: Apr 21, 2008 at 07:05 PM by firewired »
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Offline barrister

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #26 on: Apr 21, 2008 at 12:19 PM »
Personally, I prefer if pinoydvd continues its prohibition against piracy discussions.

Pinoydvd is a highly respected site, with a reputation of being 100% legit.  I don't think it can maintain this image for long if it allows piracy discussions.  If the rules allow piracy discussions, parang fly-by-night na lang ang dating ng forum natin; hindi na masyadong pogi.

Allowing piracy discussions will eventually cause posts to veer into blatantly illegal references and links.  Most members will respect forum rules, but some will always try to test the limits of how much they can get away with.

It's going to be difficult and time-consuming to monitor which posts are allowed and which posts are prohibited.  And you can be sure that there will always be complaints whenever a member's post is deleted.  The member will usually challenge the moderator and insist that the deleted post did not violate forum rules.


I was actually curious about why some members continue to feel that piracy needs to be discussed again here on PinoyDVD.

I can cite a long list of piracy topics that have never been discussed on pinoydvd or TheQ. 

Here's one example (don't answer it, example lang ito ;)):

The very first pirated release of Apocalypto was sourced from a legal Russian TC (Telecine).  What is a legal Russian TC DVD?



In any case, what else is there to discuss other than the fact that hd-dvd and bd rips converted to DVD compatible format have very much better PQ than original DVDs, have reasonably acceptable AQ depending on the authoring, but certainly lack special features due to memory constraints?

I'll give you a hint.  You cited 3 points.  None of those points is correct, they're just common misconceptions. 

To prove that I'm not trollling, I will not respond to any replies, just as I did not respond to sir indie boi's Reply # 4 above.
« Last Edit: Apr 21, 2008 at 02:21 PM by barrister »

Offline upinsmoke

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #27 on: Apr 21, 2008 at 04:16 PM »
I'm curious why pinoydvd needs to have a "cordial relationship with local distributor and retailers"?  Aside from letting us know where the next sale is and the release dates of title (which benefits them more than it does us), what other use do they serve?  I'm still a newbie here somewhat, maybe some of you longtimers can explain it to me.

I'm just disappointed at the quality of the legit DVD these days.  There's no improvement over the last 4 years while the pirated ones have surpassed them.  As they say, let your money do the talking.  For every DVD5 full screen low quality crap they release (ie. Babel, Ultimate Avengers, 1408, Inside Man, and many more), that's another title I'll be looking for at Q and that's another title we'll be talking about in our forum to inform consumers how to avoid getting ripped off.
« Last Edit: Apr 21, 2008 at 04:59 PM by upinsmoke »

Offline DVD_Freak

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #28 on: Apr 21, 2008 at 04:59 PM »
I'm curious why pinoydvd needs to have a "cordial relationship with local distributor and retailers"?  Aside from letting us know where the next sale is and the release dates of title (which benefits them more than it does us), what other use do they serve?  I'm still a newbie here somewhat, maybe some of you longtimers can explain it to me.

I'm just disappointed at the quality of the legit DVD these days.  There's no improvement over the last 4 years while the pirated ones have surpassed them.  As they say, let your money do the talking.  For every DVD5 full screen low quality crap they release (ie. Babel, Ultimate Avengers, 1408, Inside Man, and many more), that's another title I'll be looking for at Q and that's another title we'll be talking about in our forum to inform consumers how to avoid getting ripped off.  What they pick up while they are there will not be my problem.

It's because pinoydvd is connected to pinoydvd.biz the on-line store.  So the site needs to have that cordial relationship with distributors or these same distributors would not support the on-line store.

Offline firewired

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Re: Suggestion: Change of Forum Policy
« Reply #29 on: Apr 21, 2008 at 05:27 PM »
PinoyDVD.biz started less than 2 years ago - and all they did was license the PinoyDVD brand. Except for the ads, there's no overlap between the 2 entities. They can change their name and it still wouldn't have any effect on their contracts with the distributors and their OMB license. What kind of specific support are you referring to? PinoyDVD.biz doesn't really get special treatment from Magna, Warner, and Viva since it's strictly a distributor-retailer relationship. In fact, Astro and Odyssey likely get better terms (plus posters, standees, and store displays) simply because of the sheer number of branches that they have in their store networks.

The cordial relationship I referred to is essential because that's how you get the distributors to listen to you regarding:
  • Pricing issues
  • Quality issues
  • Distribution issues

Talking about the advantages of pirated releases doesn't work with the distributors. Seriously. It's an apples to oranges comparison. They can't compete with the smuggling because the parent studios demand they play it straight. They can't compete with the Quiapo catalog because each title has an order minimum, commands royalties from the studio, plus has official fees that have to be paid to the OMB and unofficial fees that have to be paid to Customs. They also have to work in decent margins for their retailers who need to keep their businesses afloat.

It's a credit to PinoyDVD and its members that constant lobbying over the years has resulted in the prices you're seeing today. Even the decision to manufacture DVD9 locally was a response to the quality issues raised here on the site after the distributors realized that their DVD5 budget releases were getting extremely negative reviews.

Personally, I think there has been significant progress over the last several years, especially after Magna started pressing budget DVD9s locally. Warner continues to import their releases and drop their prices so quality is really a non-issue with them.

If I'm not mistaken, the titles you referred to are all Viva's - the remaining major local distributor that still masters from Betacam for independent studio releases (Lion's Gate comes to mind hence the shoddy versions of Ultimate Avengers, Iron Man, and Dr. Strange). Viva's Disney and Fox releases are closely monitored by the studios so those titles tend to be more consistent. C-Interactive still does DVD5 as well, but last I checked, we don't really endorse their releases here.
« Last Edit: Apr 21, 2008 at 07:08 PM by firewired »
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