Topic: JJ Abrams' Fringe

[Dan]

^ If you'll notice, some of their explanations and premises are kind of off, too. A friend pointed out one time about how the show explained the logic behind Ocham's Razor, and how, apparently, the simplest solution is the most plausible one. The way the show had a scientist explain this "simplicity" made it worse.

[AshKetchum]

Any explanation coming from Walter is always "kind of off", since he's supposed to be insane. 

The show mostly deals with fringe science--not the most legitimate branch of science. It's about as convincing as time travel on Lost or giant monsters on Cloverfield, but hey, I'm thoroughly enjoying the ride on the Fringe train.

[Dan]

When I said "kind of off" I meant completely wrong, and not in a it-was-explained-by-a-loopy-person kind of way  If you're going to base "fringe" science off of "true" scientific thoughts and tenets, at the very least, have those true aspects explained factually -- then only then do you go off into the crazy.

But hey, make no mistake or assumption, I'm also a fan of the show. Anna Torv is HOT

[X44]

I agree. This is where shows like this tend to go off the rails a bit.

I'd watch Lance Reddick in anything and am glad to see he's getting work after The Wire and I think Fringe is good junk food fun myself  - -the third episode was better than the second, dialogue-wise and actingwise - - - easy to consume and if it  doesn't ask you to leave your brain  at the door it doesn't really ask you to use it very much. And yeah, that Torv woman is hot, bad acting notwithstanding.  Still it's pretty much a means to plug the Chris Carter vacuum. Lost is still the way to go for your JJ Abrams mindfrak fix. But hey, I'm watching both. I've got ten more episodes to go on this one to see if it goes nowhere but up.

[AshKetchum]

Anna Torv is HOT

a pity she fell for and got married to the guy who plays John Scott (Mark Valley)  :'(

I've got ten more episodes to go on this one to see if it goes nowhere but up.

it gets better. the 4th episode is considered to be one of the best, and introduces us to The Watcher Observer.

[X44]

it gets better. the 4th episode is considered to be one of the best, and introduces us to The Watcher Observer.

Thanks. I think I'll put it on tonight.

[Dan]

Still it's pretty much a means to plug the Chris Carter vacuum.

On that bit, it still has a ways to go. I could go on forever how absolutely nothing can compare to the X-Files, but that would come off as hijacking this thread.

I'll do it anyway. The X-Files has its own faults, with plots that stem mostly on the paranoias of people. That, it seems, is only when a fair amount of the logic can be chucked out the door for more of the fantastic and downright ridiculous (Flukeman, anyone?). But one thing that the X-Files has that Fringe doesn't is chemistry between the two (or three) leads. Even Skinner was a welcome addition to the Scully-Mulder dynamic. I've seen this from the very first episode of Fringe and a lot of people have also noticed the complete lack of any kind of tension or chemistry between the characters (but I admit, Walter and Peter are MFEO). Then again, it could be argued that that's not the point of the show -- it probably acknowledges that yes, The X-Files has done this before, but the public needs to see something else. On that I would be more than willing to stand corrected.

To its credit, Fringe basically turns the whole conspiracy plot upside down. On the X-Files, you have a group of individuals fighting against a government that lies to the people. While in Fringe, it's the other way around -- here, the government is the good guy and something else is The Big Bad.

I would like to end this hijacking with "Anna Torv is HOT."

[X44]

I agree it has a long way to go when it comes to plugging the x Files vacuum and I doubt if it will. You can't really plug a show's vacuum with another show that is,in many ways, the exact same show. Slight deviations in nuance and dynamics occur but let's not kid ourselves here, Fringe is an X Files rip-off (itself an Avengers hommage) , a slightly better rip-off than The Chronicle or Dark Skies - - which , bad as they were, took the effort of not making its Mulder/Scully clones FBI agents.

Plus I agree about the lack of chemistry. A friend and I were talking about this the other day - - the lack of chemistry and how everybody's so uptight and needlessly intense. Mulder and Scully (like Steed and Peel) had chemistry in spades and that was more than half the battle. Regardless of aesthetic motives, chemistry between the two leads should be paramount. And I don't think, at this point, they should even try to get out of  the XFiles Ripoff shadow. The show mainly feeds off our love for Grant Morrison-style black science/weird conspiracies. It just has to be well-told (and people say it is, I'm only up to Ep. 4 but it does look good, loved the frozen bus particularly) and , ripoff or no ripoff, all will be forgiven. It already is, I think.

Like I said, I saw the 4th episode recently and yes, the quality does go up quite a bit from Episode 2, which was a mess. Good solid entertainment. The 3rd one was no slouch either. I still have problems with some of the acting. Everybody seems prone to outbursts at the tiniest provocation. It's a little off-putting. And not very realistic. But this was a fairly well-written episode, if only for the revelations and how they put an end to the Oatu/Observer parallels. Plus the dialogue has improved significantly - - - I noticed that Abrams didn't share writing credit with Kurtzman and Orci, so the two may be the culprits. After Whedon (Buffy), Sorkin(WestWing) , Milch(Deadwood) , Moore(BSG), Simon (Wire) and indeed Abrams (Lost) and  Christ Carter you sort of half-expect these young turks to take writing pointers. Oh well.  The twist ending to this one wasn't surprising , too, since they keep putting Mark Valley's name on the credits, which is sort of like putting Kevin Spacey's name up on the credits of Seven.

I'm cracking the 5th episode soon. It IS a fun ride. Comfort TV. And everybody swears it goes nowhere but up. But i'm shifting to BSG for the meantime.

[AshKetchum]

Just watched episode 14 - "Ability", and it's one superb episode, with little bits surfacing here and there, with the return of Mr. Jones and the ZFT, the Observer looking straight at the camera, Olivia revealing her mutant abilities (LOL), and a shocker at the very end. 

I'm starting to sound like a broken vinyl record, but what can I say? It just gets better and better. My only problem with this show is that they keep holding back the new episodes--the next episode (#15) will air in April, but if I read it right, the last 7 episodes will air every week from that point on until the season finale.

[Clondalkin]

Walter is kinda like Stephen Hawking - he's got a theory for everything.

Well, I really like this series but the bald black boss needs to chill out a little bit.   

[indie boi]

Just watched episode 14 - "Ability", and it's one superb episode, with little bits surfacing here and there, with the return of Mr. Jones and the ZFT, the Observer looking straight at the camera, Olivia revealing her mutant abilities (LOL), and a shocker at the very end. 

I'm starting to sound like a broken vinyl record, but what can I say? It just gets better and better. My only problem with this show is that they keep holding back the new episodes--the next episode (#15) will air in April, but if I read it right, the last 7 episodes will air every week from that point on until the season finale.

Fringe is a frigging freight train right now. The plots keep getting better and the "mythology" is fast gaining flesh. Just when you thought that the revelation by Loeb to Dunham in "Bound" was the biggest "what the?!" moment for the first half of the season "Ability" just one-ups it totally. I'm a bit ambivalent about putting that drug angle on Dunham's supposed ability but I'll see where the writers will take this. At this point, I see that as the first big misstep in this fine series.

I am enjoying the ride immensely. This is one intelligent TV series. It's just too bad that we'll have to wait for the next episode again.

[X44]

Fringe had me in marathon junkie mode the last few nights, sleeping unhealthily late.  It's my new Primeval. JJ Abrams in  B movie mode ain't such a bad thing. Only problem is, I got as far as Episode 10 of the series and that's as far as my  . . .umm . . . "compilation" got which was a bummer as Episode 10 ended in a sort of cliffhanger.  Now downloading the other four that have already come out. The subplot about Walter's safety deposit boxes was a doozy. And the killer butterflies from Episode 9. Episode 7 was one of the ones I liked best mostly out of how it was Brad Anderson who directed, always liked his pulse for creepy stuff, which he showed off to terrific effect in Session 9 and The Machinist. Also, the parasite around Loeb's heart was squeamish-creepy in the best Sam Raimi Evil Dead way.  I hear he's directing Episode 13 ,too. Not downloading fast enough.

[X44]

11-14 downloaded!

[devlin_waugh]

Fringe is a frigging freight train right now. The plots keep getting better and the "mythology" is fast gaining flesh. Just when you thought that the revelation by Loeb to Dunham in "Bound" was the biggest "what the?!" moment for the first half of the season "Ability" just one-ups it totally. I'm a bit ambivalent about putting that drug angle on Dunham's supposed ability but I'll see where the writers will take this. At this point, I see that as the first big misstep in this fine series.

I am enjoying the ride immensely. This is one intelligent TV series. It's just too bad that we'll have to wait for the next episode again.

I really like Walter's mad scientist craziness and humor...rarely do you see that kind of character nowadays and actors who can pull it off convincingly...

[indie boi]

Yup, Walter Bishop is the best character to grace TV in years -- well, he and Barney Stinson.

[devlin_waugh]

Also, the parasite around Loeb's heart was squeamish-creepy in the best Sam Raimi Evil Dead way.  I hear he's directing Episode 13 ,too. Not downloading fast enough.

wait til you see how a mutated cold virus looks like 

[X44]

Soon I will. Just got the 4 remaining episodes.

John Noble is wonderfully cast and a far cry from his role in Return of the King, I might add. For me, he's the most fully-realized character in the whole thing, he's a trope,sure- - -quintessential mad scientist - - - they all are,really,  but he sure as hell runs with his trope and takes it to some pretty interesting places. He screams JJ Abrams more than anybody else (they scream more Chris Carter). He wouldn't be . .  um, lost . . . in Lost.

[bunnygod]

could it be walter bishop who wrote the zft?

[X44]

Finished every episode already. The Transformation is my favorite episode. Again, Brad Anderson.

Loved the Jonathan Carrooll hommage in Ability.

But . . . a question to its ardent fans or to anybody shaper-eyed than I probably was last night . . .
if Jones was going to be teleported out of prison . . .why dye your hair black?

Lapse in logic? Gaffe?

[devlin_waugh]

^same reason for donning a suit perhaps?

On that point, yeah why not go au naturelle instead like what the Governator does in his T1000 alt mode?

Must be the PG viewing crowd

[indie boi]

Finished every episode already. The Transformation is my favorite episode. Again, Brad Anderson.

Loved the Jonathan Carrooll hommage in Ability.

But . . . a question to its ardent fans or to anybody shaper-eyed than I probably was last night . . .
if Jones was going to be teleported out of prison . . .why dye your hair black?

Lapse in logic? Gaffe?

Could be one of those esoteric reasonings that was just implied but never explained. Kinda like his request for suntan lotion, it could have an effect on the teleportation.

[X44]

The suntan  I sort of get.

As for the dying his hair black, my initial thought was that he wanted to pass himself off as his lawyer but then that wouldn't make sense.

Nor would dressing up in a suit - - - but I let that one slide as vanity on Jones' part, specially since he specifically asked his lawyer to get a new suit from his "tailor", which his lawyer refused to do.

Although  teleportation, according to The Fly and not Nightcrawler at least, always requires teleporting in the buff, presumably to reduce the risk of your molecules bonding with the molecules of fabric when you re-assemble. Maybe the  suit circumvented that problem and the side effects Jones was experiencing had to do with getting the wrong "suit".

So yeah, suffice to say, I was bothered by that little details of Jones' escape, specially the hair dye, as I've been paying close attention to every detail ever since the sort of reveal on the Bound episode. Hipefully there's a reason up JJ Abrams' sleeve for this.

And I'm hoping the reveals at the end of Ability  - - -the bomb made of lights, the hospital wall, the phone call - - -doesn't help the show degenerate into the mess Heroes has become. But this is JJ Abrams, who seems far far smarter than Tim Kring and his cohorts. And this is a far far smarter show, all told. Which is probably why it has less viewers. 

[AshKetchum]

since Mr. Jones' intent wasn't only to teleport, but to travel in time as well, I always thought he needed the dye to appear younger in case he traveled to the past.   

And this is a far far smarter show, all told. Which is probably why it has less viewers. 

maybe Fringe has less viewers here as compared to Heroes, but apparently not in the USA:


ratings for the last 6 episodes of Heroes:

Episode.................Viewers in millions

Volume III: Villains
"The Eclipse, Part 1"..............7.85
"The Eclipse, Part 2"..............8.02
"Our Father".........................7.78
"Dual"..................................7.87

Volume IV: Fugitives
"A Clear and Present Danger"....8.45
"Trust and Blood"....................7.90


ratings for the last 6 episodes of Fringe:

Episode.................Viewers in millions

"The Dreamscape"...................7.704
"Safe"...................................8.535
"Bound"...............................11.962
"The No-Brainer"...................11.619
"The Transformation".............12.780
"Ability"...............................11.867

[gunblade977]

I was able to finish viewing this until episode 14 yesterday.
I don't know if its just me, but it kind of reminds me of Alias.

[AshKetchum]

I don't know if its just me, but it kind of reminds me of Alias.

LOL, don't worry, it's not just you--Fringe comes from J.J. Abrams, the same guy who did Alias, Lost, and Cloverfield. 

[gunblade977]

LOL, don't worry, it's not just you--Fringe comes from J.J. Abrams, the same guy who did Alias, Lost, and Cloverfield. 

hehe, Yea I know they all came from JJ abrams... Its just that the similarity is really close.. hehehe. I keep relating Walter bishop to rambaldi esp the episode where Jones' men broke into those fibonacci safes 

[X44]

maybe Fringe has less viewers here as compared to Heroes, but apparently not in the USA:

Just shows how smarter they are.

[DVD_Freak]

Just shows how smarter they are.

Really?  Last time I checked Americans created the show.   

[X44]

Yeah. Americans  who know that Third World fanboys will keep watching their show no matter how dumb and silly it gets, given how much dumb and silly sells like hotcakes in these here parts. That's smart,after a fashion.

[AshKetchum]

episode 15 of Fringe, "Inner Child" was great, while episode 16, "Unleashed", wasn't that bad. Only 5 more episodes to go till the finale, and we'll finally get to meet the yet-unseen head of Massive Dynamic at last--J.J. Abrams scored a casting coup with Dr. William Bell, who'll be played by no other than the original Mr. Spock himself--Leonard Nimoy.