Topic: SD vs BD vs Downloads

[defjam]

Thanks a lot bro!!

What I usually do is I download torrents, burn them into data discs or use a USB drive, then watch it on my PS3 or Philips DVD player with USB capabilities.

Is that basically the same as those other formats? Or is the audio and video better? I have not downloaded HD content yet since the files are so big, like 10 gigs for movies and 2 gigs for TV shows. I think I'll have to wait so long for them to finish downloading.. haha!

bro i used to do that before, burning avi files to a blank dvd and watching it through a divx capable dvd player, the video and audio quality is really diff. just imagine the files the you get are around 700mb while hd movies are usually 4gb and above.(some even 30gb++ with dts audio) just remember once you go hd you never come back to sd. thats why i got an egreat nmt and the dvd player has not been used since. the movies you download are in avi format while hd movies are in mkv format.

[eksi]

Thanks a lot bro!!

What I usually do is I download torrents, burn them into data discs or use a USB drive, then watch it on my PS3 or Philips DVD player with USB capabilities.

Is that basically the same as those other formats? Or is the audio and video better? I have not downloaded HD content yet since the files are so big, like 10 gigs for movies and 2 gigs for TV shows. I think I'll have to wait so long for them to finish downloading.. haha!

bro imperialcog, dami na nagreply sa question mo... maaasahan lahat ng members dito to help understand better mga bagay-bagay about home entertainment and gadgets

i thought your downloading HD movies na... anyway, goodluck to all your future downloads hopefully HD na sa susunod

[nerveblocker]

The next upgrade to enjoy downloading HD files is a faster internet connection speed.     I'm proud to say this is one of the best decisions I've made. 

[Huddaf]

bro imperialcog, dami na nagreply sa question mo... maaasahan lahat ng members dito to help understand better mga bagay-bagay about home entertainment and gadgets

i thought your downloading HD movies na... anyway, goodluck to all your future downloads hopefully HD na sa susunod

You should start investing now. Start downloading.... heheheh then share mo samin ha. 

[imperialcog]

WOW. I never knew there was a world like this pala... haha! I mean I knew you can download HD torrents, but I never knew there are actually gadgets specifically made for playing these..

I usually go to Mininova.org... Is this a good place for HD content also, or do you suggest a better one?

Are the HD movies being downloaded have the same quality as original BDs or are they just like the Jack Sparrow ones?

Thanks for all the replies guys!

[oReOsHaKe]

WOW. I never knew there was a world like this pala... haha! I mean I knew you can download HD torrents, but I never knew there are actually gadgets specifically made for playing these..

I usually go to Mininova.org... Is this a good place for HD content also, or do you suggest a better one?

Are the HD movies being downloaded have the same quality as original BDs or are they just like the Jack Sparrow ones?

Thanks for all the replies guys!

go to Torrentz.com.. search for the title you want.. if you want HD, type in 720p or 1080p or bluray and HD titles will pop out.. Downloadable HD movies are definitely better than DVD but not as good as original BDs when shown in HDTVs larger than 50"..  make sure to download one of the torrents program like utorrent.. 

[Huddaf]

There you go. Theres your answer.

but just to add, they can almost have the same quality as BD but not surpass them. 

[streetsmart]

Downloadable HD movies are definitely better than DVD but not as good as original BDs when shown in HDTVs larger than 50"..  

but just to add, they can almost have the same quality as BD but not surpass them. 

This wasn't the conclusion in our blind test last September, in which 20 Pinoydvd members participated. The Popcorn soundly beat the Panny BD-30.

[eksi]

This wasn't the conclusion in our blind test last September, in which 20 Pinoydvd members participated. The Popcorn soundly beat the Panny BD-30.

after said test, nagdagsaan mamimili kung saan available NMT to purchase one

[iiinas]

This wasn't the conclusion in our blind test last September, in which 20 Pinoydvd members participated. The Popcorn soundly beat the Panny BD-30.

+1 ako dito, was there during the shootout, fully calibrated and system ni sir mark, 120" pj screen!

[Huddaf]

This wasn't the conclusion in our blind test last September, in which 20 Pinoydvd members participated. The Popcorn soundly beat the Panny BD-30.

Thats weird ha. Hi def downloadables are the direct results of ripping either BDs or HDDVDs. Theoretically speaking, the result should not exceed the source. They can either only match it or have a lower quality - Am i right? Please correct me if im wrong. 

Anyways, im glad i have an NMT instead of BD player for now. 

[NikkoPH]

WOW. I never knew there was a world like this pala... haha! I mean I knew you can download HD torrents, but I never knew there are actually gadgets specifically made for playing these..

I usually go to Mininova.org... Is this a good place for HD content also, or do you suggest a better one?

Are the HD movies being downloaded have the same quality as original BDs or are they just like the Jack Sparrow ones?

Thanks for all the replies guys!

I was in the same shoe as you are bro, i was satisfied with watching 700++ MB movie on my TV before.. as long as i dont see movie house copies im definitely enjoying it. however, when i was introduced to MKV, 1080i/1080p i just cant imagine watching SD back, my wife and i is simply loving it.. i purchased mr Oreoshakes Popcorn Hour and used that to download Hi Def torrents. I just upgraded my DSL plan to 2MBPS.. sulit na sulit!

[iiinas]

Thats weird ha. Hi def downloadables are the direct results of ripping either BDs or HDDVDs. Theoretically speaking, the result should not exceed the source. They can either only match it or have a lower quality - Am i right? Please correct me if im wrong. 

Anyways, im glad i have an NMT instead of BD player for now. 

i think this was discussed already in another thread. that this encoders can actually tweak the image to become sharper, sometimes sharper than i like actually. 

mahirap na pag usapan ng detalye dito, na principals office na kami nung pinagusapan ito ng detalye. 

but 20+ members really scored the nmt image better than bd. 

[imperialcog]

i think this was discussed already in another thread. that this encoders can actually tweak the image to become sharper, sometimes sharper than i like actually. 

mahirap na pag usapan ng detalye dito, na principals office na kami nung pinagusapan ito ng detalye. 

but 20+ members really scored the nmt image better than bd. 

NMT's better than BDs? Ok yun ah!

Maybe particular BDs lang.. Like I have a handful of BDs already and I can really distinguish which ones have better transfers than others. If you compare the Incredible Hulk and Iron Man, the Incredible Hulk surpasses the other in terms of transfer. As well as Prisoner of Azkaban and Order of the Phoenix, the Order is so much better than Azkaban. As in! I watched Azkaban first, then when I went to the Order, I was super blown away! But of course that's just my opinion, and some of the people I work with who have seen these titles, too.

[iiinas]

NMT's better than BDs? Ok yun ah!

Maybe particular BDs lang.. Like I have a handful of BDs already and I can really distinguish which ones have better transfers than others. If you compare the Incredible Hulk and Iron Man, the Incredible Hulk surpasses the other in terms of transfer. As well as Prisoner of Azkaban and Order of the Phoenix, the Order is so much better than Azkaban. As in! I watched Azkaban first, then when I went to the Order, I was super blown away! But of course that's just my opinion, and some of the people I work with who have seen these titles, too.

it was a pretty comprehensive shoot out. with scoring sheets and all. but you may be right. of course there will be bds that will look way better than the file counterpart. but i think what the shoot-out proved was hd files are definitely at par with bd or hddvd counterpart with the usual acceptable +/- variances on a per title basis. 

[milken]

I believe there's a flaw in the shootout of pch vs. pany bd-30. The materials being played are different. PCH is playing a 1080p reencode of Batman Begins (ESiR's rip I assume) while Pany an original BluRay disc.  To determine which device is better, the materials should have been the same. Bluray disc vs. full Bluray backup copy.  A good encode must be transparent or identical to the source as possible.  But there are encoders who oversharpen the picture quality, which is, in my opinion as well as that of most high def enthusiasts, not right. To answer the question posted above, yes it's possible for the encode to be better than the source but this is not proper and ideal.  

Example, comparison between Batman Begins HD DVD (24.8gb) vs. EuReKa 1080p encode (23.9gb):  http://www.imagebam.com/image/dcb3e09000719 vs. http://www.imagebam.com/image/3078a69000726

But to conclude that all rips/reencodes are better than the original is wrong and not entirely accurate.  The original is still the best...the spring can never rise up beyond its source.  What are nice with original or full blurays are the bonus materials and lossless audio.  

[iiinas]

I believe there's a flaw in the shootout of pch vs. pany bd-30. The materials being played are different. PCH is playing a 1080p reencode of Batman Begins (ESiR's rip I assume) while Pany an original BluRay disc.  To determine which device is better, the materials should have been the same. Bluray disc vs. full Bluray backup copy.  A good encode must be transparent or identical to the source as possible.  But there are encoders who oversharpen the picture quality, which is, in my opinion as well as that of most high def enthusiasts, not right. To answer the question posted above, yes it's possible for the encode to be better than the source but this is not proper and ideal.  

Example, comparison between Batman Begins HD DVD (24.8gb) vs. EuReKa 1080p encode (23.9gb):  http://www.imagebam.com/image/dcb3e09000719 vs. http://www.imagebam.com/image/3078a69000726

But to conclude that all rips/reencodes are better than the original is wrong and not entirely accurate.  The original is still the best...the spring can never rise up beyond its source.  What are nice with original or full blurays are the bonus materials and lossless audio.  

i fully agree with this, the shoot-out may not be as professional as we wanted it to be, it may not be comparing apples to apples, but the fact of the matter is, whether its proper or ideal does not matter, what matters is what the perception of the viewers who are looking at the materials at that specific time, and majority concluded they like the image of the encode than the bd.

but as i said, there are some encodes that over sharpen, and i dont like it either, hurts the eyes viewing it for a long time. that is why i still prefer the 720p encodes, its not as sharp as the 1080p. its actually a lot softer which for me is already very acceptable.

but personally, after looking at some of my hddvd discs vs. files of the same title at home, i can say although i give the sharpness to the file version. colors definitely came out better for the disc version; blacks were better also for the disc version. but again, i can't say its true for all titles, as i cant compare all of them. 

[oReOsHaKe]

I was in the same shoe as you are bro, i was satisfied with watching 700++ MB movie on my TV before.. as long as i dont see movie house copies im definitely enjoying it. however, when i was introduced to MKV, 1080i/1080p i just cant imagine watching SD back, my wife and i is simply loving it.. i purchased mr Oreoshakes Popcorn Hour and used that to download Hi Def torrents. I just upgraded my DSL plan to 2MBPS.. sulit na sulit!

I'm glad you're enjoying your PCH 100 bro.. I'm enjoying my PCH 110 too.. still got so much Hi-def TV series downloaded na hindi pa napanood..  and am still downloading..

[oReOsHaKe]

This wasn't the conclusion in our blind test last September, in which 20 Pinoydvd members participated. The Popcorn soundly beat the Panny BD-30.

not the same with my system when i compare an original BD title played on my BD30 with its Hi-def downloaded version and played in my PCH 110..  lamang pa rin ang original BD title in terms of PQ and of course AQ..  but then again its subjective..  i can readily see some imperfections sa downloaded version even if it is hidef version and blu-ray-rip version..  this is the reason why i buy the BD version of those movies I really like because I want to see and experience the best PQ and AQ.. for TV series and comedy puwede na download lang but for titles like TDK, Iron Man and the like I guess BD version is the way to go..

[streetsmart]

I believe there's a flaw in the shootout of pch vs. pany bd-30. The materials being played are different. PCH is playing a 1080p reencode of Batman Begins (ESiR's rip I assume) while Pany an original BluRay disc.  To determine which device is better, the materials should have been the same. Bluray disc vs. full Bluray backup copy.  A good encode must be transparent or identical to the source as possible.  But there are encoders who oversharpen the picture quality, which is, in my opinion as well as that of most high def enthusiasts, not right. To answer the question posted above, yes it's possible for the encode to be better than the source but this is not proper and ideal.  

Example, comparison between Batman Begins HD DVD (24.8gb) vs. EuReKa 1080p encode (23.9gb):  http://www.imagebam.com/image/dcb3e09000719 vs. http://www.imagebam.com/image/3078a69000726

But to conclude that all rips/reencodes are better than the original is wrong and not entirely accurate.  The original is still the best...the spring can never rise up beyond its source.  What are nice with original or full blurays are the bonus materials and lossless audio.  

The blind test was never meant to be a super-scientific test. Nevertheless, it was carefully done. Furthermore, the original intent was to compare upscaled SD vs BD (wherein BD was the winner by a mile). The Popcorn was an afterthought. No one expected Popcorn to come out ahead.

Its easy to theorize and do your own test at home. A blind test, however, with 20 Pinoydvd members, is quite hard to set-up and to dispute. Why did they choose the Popcorn? I have no idea. Personally, when I compared the material, I thought that the reds of the Popcorn were too saturated -- but obviously, my personal comparison was not the result of a blind test. I would still give more weight to the blind test which was conducted with 20 video enthusiasts, not just ordinary men-in-the-street.

My own personal conclusion is that in a blind test, a good Popcorn file will be indistinguishable against a Bluray disc.

[streetsmart]

not the same with my system when i compare an original BD title played on my BD30 with its Hi-def downloaded version and played in my PCH 110..  lamang pa rin ang original BD title in terms of PQ and of course AQ..  but then again its subjective.. 

With AQ, the conclusions of the blind test were even more conclusive. For movies, most people preferred the Dolby Digital version vs Dolby TruHD. It was only with concerts that people preferred Dolby TruHD.

Again, this was a conclusion that I never expected. And for the AQ test, 21 guys participated (ESi arrived late).

If you think of it, how will dialogue or an explosion or a footstep become more accurate because the audio is lossless? Music, on the other hand, is quite different because there are many subtleties of musical instruments that we are familiar with and can distinguish with lossless audio.

I have heard many people gush about how good the lossless audio sounds but I trust the result of the blind test more. Its the same conclusion arrived at by some AV writers.

[eksi]

I believe there's a flaw in the shootout of pch vs. pany bd-30. The materials being played are different. PCH is playing a 1080p reencode of Batman Begins (ESiR's rip I assume) while Pany an original BluRay disc.  To determine which device is better, the materials should have been the same. Bluray disc vs. full Bluray backup copy.  A good encode must be transparent or identical to the source as possible.  But there are encoders who oversharpen the picture quality, which is, in my opinion as well as that of most high def enthusiasts, not right. To answer the question posted above, yes it's possible for the encode to be better than the source but this is not proper and ideal. 

Example, comparison between Batman Begins HD DVD (24.8gb) vs. EuReKa 1080p encode (23.9gb):  http://www.imagebam.com/image/dcb3e09000719 vs. http://www.imagebam.com/image/3078a69000726

But to conclude that all rips/reencodes are better than the original is wrong and not entirely accurate.  The original is still the best...the spring can never rise up beyond its source.  What are nice with original or full blurays are the bonus materials and lossless audio. 

bro milken, based on the links you provided, i find eureka encode better... maybe because the source is from blu-ray and was encoded 100% (perfectly encoded)
for me the clone can be as identical as its source (given the vast hardware & software available)
because of limited budget for home entertainment... NMT muna ako
cheers to the generous BD owners who share their wealth in the community... without them there will be no sharing because there will be nothing to share in the first place
happy new year to all

[barrister]

Thanks a lot bro!!

What I usually do is I download torrents, burn them into data discs or use a USB drive, then watch it on my PS3 or Philips DVD player with USB capabilities.

Is that basically the same as those other formats? Or is the audio and video better? I have not downloaded HD content yet since the files are so big, like 10 gigs for movies and 2 gigs for TV shows. I think I'll have to wait so long for them to finish downloading.. haha!

Yes, it's basically the same.  But the disadvantage with playback on your PS3 and/or your DVD player's USB port is that format support will be limited.  You will eventually encounter many files that will not play properly.

I converted a DVD that I own into a 1.5GB file (Ave. bitrate 2.148 Mbps, 720 x 320 resolution, AVI container, XviD codec, Dolby 5.1 audio), then tested it on my Philips DVD player using a USB thumb drive .  Play stuttered on high-action scenes.  1.5GB na nga lang yan, pumapalya pa.  

HTPCs and NMTs, on the other hand, were specifically designed to play downloaded media files, so format support and playback performance are expectedly superior.  (The above-mentioned AVI file played flawlessly on my WD media player.)

It's up to you how far you're willing to go.  To my mind, the starting point is really your monitor's capability. 

Get a high-resolution monitor or front projector, and only 1080p-MKV files can satisfy you.  You will not be happy with a WD media player; you will have to get at least an NMT.  Then you will need more hard disc storage space.  Then a faster internet connection.  There's no telling when the rounds of upgrades will ever end. 

But if you limit yourself to a low-resolution monitor, then you'll be just fine with 700MB files.  No need for expensive players, terabytes of storage, or blazing-speed internet connections.

What I'd be interested in is DVD player that also front-loads a My Passport.  No need to plug and unplug a USB port, just dock the My Passport like an 8-track audio tape cartridge.  Now that would be really convenient. 

[milken]

To iiinas and streetsmart,
First of all, I'm not discrediting the findings of your shootout.  The blind test shows that 20 video enthusiasts prefer the picture quality coming out of pch playing 1080p encode vs. a bluray player, given the particular sources and gears used.  There are many factors why PCH displays a better PQ at that time...maybe the 1080p encode is from HDDVD and not bluray (it's possible for the hddvd and bluray version to have different PQ), maybe personal preference comes into play with regard to color (like sir streetsmart pointed out), etc.  So I don't contest the conclusion that pch beats panny in that particular blind test. 

However, I'm more concerned about the implications and generalizations being drawn.  Some readers are confused and thought that encodes are always better than the original BD/HDDVD, which is and should never be the case. [although some encodes may be oversharpened to look better than the orig].  So I felt the need to express my opinion on the matter to balance the views.  At least 2 pdvd members, oreoshake and iiinas, have pointed out from their experience finding their orig BD bit better than the encodes they have. 

To eksi,
That EuReKa's 1080p encode is from HDDVD.  The size is almost the same as the orig HDDVD.  This example shows that encodes may be better than the orig, and is rather an exception than the rule.  The general rule is orig BD/HDDVD is better than encodes but if properly done, their differences are subtle and quite difficult to distinguish.   

[iiinas]

To iiinas and streetsmart,
First of all, I'm not discrediting the findings of your shootout.  The blind test shows that 20 video enthusiasts prefer the picture quality coming out of pch playing 1080p encode vs. a bluray player, given the particular sources and gears used.  There are many factors why PCH displays a better PQ at that time...maybe the 1080p encode is from HDDVD and not bluray (it's possible for the hddvd and bluray version to have different PQ), maybe personal preference comes into play with regard to color (like sir streetsmart pointed out), etc.  So I don't contest the conclusion that pch beats panny in that particular blind test. 

However, I'm more concerned about the implications and generalizations being drawn.  Some readers are confused and thought that encodes are always better than the original BD/HDDVD, which is and should never be the case. [although some encodes may be oversharpened to look better than the orig].  So I felt the need to express my opinion on the matter to balance the views.  At least 2 pdvd members, oreoshake and iiinas, have pointed out from their experience finding their orig BD bit better than the encodes they have. 

To eksi,
That EuReKa's 1080p encode is from HDDVD.  The size is almost the same as the orig HDDVD.  This example shows that encodes may be better than the orig, and is rather an exception than the rule.  The general rule is orig BD/HDDVD is better than encodes but if properly done, their differences are subtle and quite difficult to distinguish.   

point taken. its just weird talaga. going into the affair, it was a given that bd should be chosen hands down. everyone who participated were surprised at the results too. but as they say, you can't go wrong with what your eyes tells you is the better picture, file or disc; good encode or bad encode.

what i can really say for sure is what is happening now with technology gives everyone a choice to what they think will satisfy their needs for hd viewing. in the end, every consumer is a winner! i don't think there is a wrong choice out there right now, pq wise and even to a certain extent aq wise. 

[Huddaf]

Hehehe Mga Parekoy! Sensya na for peeking at pandoras box here 

Happy New Year sa Lahat!

Next time na me shootout, sama na ko hehehehe 

[iiinas]

Hehehe Mga Parekoy! Sensya na for peeking at pandoras box here 

Happy New Year sa Lahat!

Next time na me shootout, sama na ko hehehehe 

next time may eb, punta ka! saya yan! 

[oReOsHaKe]

point taken. its just weird talaga. going into the affair, it was a given that bd should be chosen hands down. everyone who participated were surprised at the results too. but as they say, you can't go wrong with what your eyes tells you is the better picture, file or disc; good encode or bad encode.

what i can really say for sure is what is happening now with technology gives everyone a choice to what they think will satisfy their needs for hd viewing. in the end, every consumer is a winner! i don't think there is a wrong choice out there right now, pq wise and even to a certain extent aq wise. 

Exactly that is why I said it is subjective.. For my system, I find BD the best still..

[streetsmart]

However, I'm more concerned about the implications and generalizations being drawn.  Some readers are confused and thought that encodes are always better than the original BD/HDDVD, which is and should never be the case. [although some encodes may be oversharpened to look better than the orig].  So I felt the need to express my opinion on the matter to balance the views.  

Actually, the only reason I posted was to balance your and oreoshake's views. 

Generally, encodes are not reliable. When the encode starts to stutter, you certainly know that it isn't very good! And that happens quite a few times.

Nearly all encodes (apparently except for a few new ones) don't have chapters so navigation is a chore. If you are watching a concert and you want to go to a particular song, it's even worse.

The remotes kinda suck. Not very user-friendly.

A lot of encodes don't have sub-titles.

And just for information, my recent BD/SD purchases have been:
Unforgiven
Crank
Heart Live in Seattle
Adventures of Mimi (yuck)
John Adams miniseries
Live Aid concert

So I certainly continue to augment my BD/SD collection.

Having said that, maybe we can repeat this blind test next year. Next time, you should join and even help to design the test. Its interesting cuz based on the comments of some participants, it can be a pretty frightening experience. When the test is blind, it's so hard to tell the difference for both picture and audio, as long as the encode is good. 

[milken]

Having said that, maybe we can repeat this blind test next year. Next time, you should join and even help to design the test. Its interesting cuz based on the comments of some participants, it can be a pretty frightening experience. When the test is blind, it's so hard to tell the difference for both picture and audio, as long as the encode is good. 

Surely. That would be fun and interesting.