Topic: Should Subjects on NMTs be Banned from PinoyDVD?

[chizcake]

Self-policing on outlawed discussions would help.  

I for one dont really care on how people source out their movies. Thats their decision and prerogative.  

But we should stop na yung comparisons (and that includes me), so no egos bruised.  No tempers that would flare.



i agree boss!!

thanks

[Clondalkin]

But we should stop na yung comparisons (and that includes me), so no egos bruised.  No tempers that would flare.

Respectfully disagree. 

The shoot-out arranged by Streetsmart is one of the most brilliant activities carried out by members of this board.   If it so happened that NMT (which is a legal device) turned out to be at par with a BD, and continues to prove so recently, blame it on the technology...or praise the heavens for the technology.

Those in the group buy of eGreat (17 as of last count) must be all sleeping or glued watching as their number is not reflected in the poll yet.

[leomar]

reading the different opinions from different gurus, experts and veterans of this site, this issue is very very sensitive.

They way i see it is that, maybe we are overgeneralizing/overthinking the NMTs. What I know is, we are aloud to have a "backup copy" of our original DVDs to store in case something happens to it. I maybe wrong but that is what is understand. NMTs can play ripped contents yes, but this ripped contents can be sourced from your own collections as well, that is the other side of it. On another hand, it can also play files sourced from various places but acquiring those "files" is the prerogative of the owner already.  

Is it an issue about NMTs playing "free" media? Or is it about egos being stepped upon?

My take, pls ban discussion on piracy but let NMTs discussed freely.

[chizcake]

i agree with sir clondalkin

its all about technology.......let us just blame it to technology and ingenuity of humanity

peace hehehehehehehe


NMT's are great device(i am actually thingkingof acquiring one as well)
where we get the content is up to us!!!!!!!


peace thanks

[iiinas]

Why is it we need to start a thread that would most probably spark various arguments from people with differing opinions?  My opinion of course, but from the title pa lang, I knew may arguments ulit mangyayari.

EXACTLY!!!

its an age old argument that will never get resolved. it just goes round and round and round.

but as pinoydvd members we will respect whatever the owners think is the right way to go about issue and move on.

[ivannn]

okay lang mag healthy discussions basta huwag lang aabot sa point na kailangan na i-lock ng mods ang thread kasi hindi na maganda ang tono ng usapan sa thread...

[pchin]

And if the United States of America has not banned NMT's, why should I ban *discussions* on NMT's?

My take:

Discussions on NMT's: Ok

Discussions on piracy: Banned

I agree. We don't simply ban cars because it encouranges carjack, robbery, car accident, death, illegal car racing, etc right?    Prohibit the source but not the product itself which has many other legal & benefit usage.

[pchin]

A ban on all NMT discussions would be unreasonable.  An NMT may contain movies ripped from your own discs.   

It is true that most video content on NMTs are pirated, but it is also true that most generic DVD players are used for pirated discs.  If it is unfair to ban generic DVD player discussions, then it would also be unfair to ban NMT discussions.

A ban limited to discussions about downloaded movies is OK, since that would only be consistent with this site's no-piracy policy; however, merely discussing the NMT itself should be allowed.   

There you go from Atty barrister. Any objection?

[Mouldingo]

Again, the argument here is NMTs main selling  point is its use to play Pirated/Ripped HD content. You take  out NMTs, it will make harder for people to want Pirated HD content. Those who argue against this are known users. Even the recent shootout already added to the contention. A pirated HD DVD rip is better than an original BD? And now everyone wants one because of the result of the shootout. Why didn't you include a DVD 9 copy of a BD rip in your shootout too? Maybe the Oppo would fare better... And those pushing the product, "please don't get your orders yet because we're not finish mass loading". Loading what? Why don't you guys start policing by deleting any mention of NMTs in your "SD vs BD" thread...

[iiinas]

Again, the argument here is NMTs main selling  point is its use to play Pirated/Ripped HD content. You take  out NMTs, it will make harder for people to want Pirated HD content. Those who argue against this are known users. Even the recent shootout already added to the contention. A pirated HD DVD rip is better than an original BD? And now everyone wants one because of the result of the shootout. And those pushing the product, "please don't get your orders yet because we're not finish mass loading". Loading what? Why don't you guys start policing by deleting any mention of NMTs in your "SD vs BD" thread...

no problem in policing ourselves. will do that in fact.

but if we do as you suggest, then its like saying what others are saying all along, dont discuss anything about htpcs because it may be use for viewing such content as well. and you said so yourself that it should not be the case because htpcs can actually play legal copies of bds and sds, its the same wih nmts, unless you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that a nmt has no legal use, then discussion on nmts should not be banned.

[Mouldingo]

no problem in policing ourselves. will do that in fact.

but if we do as you suggest, then its like saying what others are saying all along, dont discuss anything about htpcs because it may be use for viewing such content as well. and you said so yourself that it should not be the case because htpcs can actually play legal copies of bds and sds, its the same wih nmts, unless you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that a nmt has no legal use, then discussion on nmts should not be banned.

"I will buy an NMT for the sole purpose to store copies of media I already own..." Who are we kidding here

[leomar]

If mods ban NMTs because its main selling point is playing "free" media, then is also logical to ban discussions on HTPC (very flexible device, primary tool to DL), PS3 (1st powerful device to play bluray, streaming player (which includes "free" media ), and generic players (its main selling point is playing pirated dvds). Then it will be fair, just do the discussion on other sites    

[iiinas]

"I will buy an NMT for the sole purpose to store copies of media I already own..." Who are we kidding here

still, it does not rule out the fact that it can be use for legal means.

all im saying is yes, some of the afficionados here went too far during the discussions (me definitely included) but as a way of moving forward, to ban discussions on an equipment that can actually be use legally is not the way to go. because if we use that argument, then tons of other topics should not be allowed as well.

[iiinas]

furthermore, by allowing discussions on nmts, but not allowing discussions on illegal contents, pinoydvd members with nmts will now have an avenue to really test the equipment within the legal limits, and in the end give other naysayers the chance to appreciate this technology.

avsforum is doing it, so why can't pinoydvd do it as well. 

[Mouldingo]

"I got a new DVD of IronMan. I quickly copied to my PC and loaded to my gazzilionbyte NMT. Ang ganda ng PQ, talo pa yung DVD copy..."

[john5479]

"I got a new DVD of IronMan. I quickly copied to my PC and loaded NMT. Ang ganda ng PQ, talo pa yung DVD copy..."

has anyone claimed this?

[devlin_waugh]

still, it does not rule out the fact that it can be use for legal means.

all im saying is yes, some of the afficionados here went too far during the discussions (me definitely included) but as a way of moving forward, to ban discussions on an equipment that can actually be use legally is not the way to go. because if we use that argument, then tons of other topics should not be allowed as well.

yes, like the internet which could be considered the mother of all NMTs, heck virtually all of the pirated stuff  comes from it or passes through it so why not train your sights on it instead? Lots of bad things have been done through it and a lot more horrific stuff are available here or have passed or are being passed through it even as we post (how to make bombs, etc.) but nobody's banning it much less prohibit discussions about it

the most like countries like China has done has been to regulate it  

[Mouldingo]

has anyone claimed this?

Hehehe, this is what's really going in the threads...

"May available na NMT player, I can sell it to you for PXX.XXX. It will include 1TB with 1XX HD Movies. Sasamahin ko na rin yung IronMan at Indy IV na bagong HD"

Sagot naman

"Wow, buti di na ako bumili ng BD na IronMan, may sira ito di ba?"

+1 for the pirates

[oweidah]

Again, the argument here is NMTs main selling  point is its use to play Pirated/Ripped HD content. You take  out NMTs, it will make harder for people to want Pirated HD content. Those who argue against this are known users. Even the recent shootout already added to the contention. A pirated HD DVD rip is better than an original BD? And now everyone wants one because of the result of the shootout. Why didn't you include a DVD 9 copy of a BD rip in your shootout too? Maybe the Oppo would fare better... And those pushing the product, "please don't get your orders yet because we're not finish mass loading". Loading what? Why don't you guys start policing by deleting any mention of NMTs in your "SD vs HD" thread...

- as to discussion of subjects on NMT - its sir "firewired" who has the last say on this matter. pdvd is his site period.

- as to NMT. i dont own one (yet). its just one product of this age's continuously advancing technology. Its a (relatively) new gadget in the philippine market and most probably here to stay.

was the cassette tape player/recorder, originally intended to reproduce "pirated" audio? how about generic dvd players? anybody here who owns a generic dvd player and use it to play ONLY original dvd copies? Its common knowledge that most, if not all owners of generic dvd players use it to play p* discs. (kasi hindi mapili at region-free). Yet, the pdvd thread on generic dvd players still exists.

yes, wag na tayo maglokohan. sa philippine setting, malamang gamitin ito para paglagyan ng p* materials. baket, may batas na ba na nagbabawal na ba ng nmt possession or possession of hard disks with pirated contents? i havent heard from omb/edu. sa presyo ng nmt, di siguro mauuso ang bentahan ng harddisk sa quiapo. brader, HDHDHD, ano gusto mo 1tb?

at kung talagang mas maganda ang video quality output ng nmt, eh sa iyon ang totoong nakita ng mga taong nakagamit. ano magagawa?

[iiinas]

"I got a new DVD of IronMan. I quickly copied to my PC and loaded to my gazzilionbyte NMT. Ang ganda ng PQ, talo pa yung DVD copy..."

wala pa dito sa pinoydvd, but sa ibang forum definitely meron na.

i think in the us of a, this has always been a bone of contention between consumers and content owners. but in the end it still is unresolved. ripping digital content started since the start of digital contents, to sell these contents after ripping is definitely piracy, but to use it for your own personal consumption is, as i said very very debatable to the point not even lawmakers wants to do anything about it (stateside that is).

its not a problem as i said to ban all illegal topics that are associated with nmts/htpcs (sinama ko na, ika mo nga sir mouldingo, who are we kidding.  ) whether its torrents, swap sessions, etc. but banning on discussions on nmt itself should not be done.

its like saying money is the root of all evil, diba it should be the "love" of money.



 

[Mouldingo]

.

- as to discussion of subjects on NMT - its sir "firewired" who has the last say on this matter. pdvd is his site period

Its really up to the admin if they will ban discussions concerning NMTs. This poll and accompanying suggestions will be at least help them if it is needed. So far, I am pleased that some members finally realised they have stepped out of line regarding the piracy issue. I hope a self-policing is in the offing. .

was the cassette tape player/recorder, originally intended to reproduce "pirated" audio? how about generic dvd players? anybody here who owns a generic dvd player and use it to play ONLY original dvd copies? Its common knowledge that most, if not all owners of generic dvd players use it to play p* discs. (kasi hindi mapili at region-free). Yet, the pdvd thread on generic dvd players still exists.

yes, wag na tayo maglokohan. sa philippine setting, malamang gamitin ito para paglagyan ng p* materials. baket, may batas na ba na nagbabawal na ba ng nmt possession or possession of hard disks with pirated contents? i havent heard from omb/edu. sa presyo ng nmt, di siguro mauuso ang bentahan ng harddisk sa quiapo. brader, HDHDHD, ano gusto mo 1tb?

at kung talagang mas maganda ang video quality output ng nmt, eh sa iyon ang totoong nakita ng mga taong nakagamit. ano magagawa?

The poll is to seek the ban on discussions on NMTs. Para at least mahirapan sila mag hanap ng paglalaruan ng p* nila. Kung may mawalang gana bumili dahil wala silang makita, so much the better.

[firewired]

Fyi, this is already under discussion by the Mods. Allow me to quote myself from a message I recently sent to one of the mailing lists:

Are we swimming against the tide? What most of you don't know is that a LOT of my time on the board is now spent flagging threads and discussions that concern torrents, HD downloads, HD copying, NMTs and HTPCs that are "loaded". A cursory check of the PM database also confirms that much of the traffic in messages has terms like "hd download" and "mkv" now which is why we've been having problems with our email server. On some days, we breach 700(!) messages.

It would be hypocritical to say that PinoyDVD is for 100% original content only in this day and age. It's not. We're all hybrids now. The discussions in the TV show forum alone point to a thriving, growing base of members who download episodes every week.

So there you have it. We're not dinosaurs, but frankly, there are practical considerations regarding this issue that affects PinoyDVD's stature in the industry. Like it or not, this is a default destination and resource of the local distributors and retailers, so they're very much aware of some of the discussions here.

As mods and stakeholders of the site, we may have our own personal preferences and opinions on this matter, but the PinoyDVD brand is greater than any one person's identity now - even the site owner's.

[oweidah]

.

The poll is to seek the ban on discussions on NMTs. Para at least mahirapan sila mag hanap ng paglalaruan ng p* nila. Kung may mawalang gana bumili dahil wala silang makita, so much the better.

or... it might have the opposite effect.  

before, i wasnt interested with PCH egreat etc, but now...

[barrister]

It might surprise members to know that buying pirated discs is not illegal in the Philippines.

Under R.A. 9239, the act of "purchasing" pirated discs is not specifically prohibited, as long as you do not "knowingly possess" items "of the same content or title" and "with intent to profit" (Sec. 19, par. 2a).

But I recognize the mods' right to prohibit piracy discussions not because it is illegal, but because they have a reputation to protect.

In the same manner, downloading movies is not illegal in the Philippines, but I also recognize the mods' right to prohibit discussions about pirated downloads for the same reason.

But banning discussions about the player itself, such as pricing/availability and performance, regardless of whether or not any movie downloads are mentioned in the discussion?  That's just too much.

[firewired]

But banning discussions about the player itself, such as pricing/availability and performance, regardless of whether or not any movie downloads are mentioned in the discussion?  That's just too much.

I don't think we'll be banning discussions on NMT hardware.

[iiinas]

It might surprise members to know that buying pirated discs is not illegal in the Philippines.

Under R.A. 9239, the act of "purchasing" pirated discs is not specifically prohibited, as long as you do not "knowingly possess" items "of the same content or title" and "with intent to profit" (Sec. 19, par. 2a).

But I recognize the mods' right to prohibit piracy discussions not because it is illegal, but because they have a reputation to protect.

In the same manner, downloading movies is not illegal in the Philippines, but I also recognize the mods' right to prohibit discussions about pirated downloads for the same reason.

But banning discussions about the player itself, such as pricing/availability and performance, regardless of whether or not any movie downloads are mentioned in the discussion?  That's just too much.

thanks for the info sir barrister!

[barrister]

You're very welcome.  Here's the full text: http://www.ops.gov.ph/records/ra_no9239.htm

I don't think we'll be banning discussions on NMT hardware.

That is what sir Mouldingo is advocating:

Should any discussion/thread/sale regarding NMTs such as Popcorn Hour, Novatron, or Egreat be banned?

... "ANY discussion/thread ... regarding NMTs..."

[Dan]

Interesting discussion so far. From what I could gather, the OP doesn't really have an issue with NMT's per se....

[Mouldingo]

Sir firewired,

 So any discussions/comparison of NMT hardware is still OK, but sales which include mention of pirated media "freebies" "loaded", mention comparison/promotions/review of pirated materials used in NMTs will not be tolerated. Also offers to distribute/file share pirated materials is banned. Yes?

[firewired]

That is what sir Mouldingo is advocating:
... "ANY discussion/thread ... regarding NMTs..."

Yes I understand that. But if I were to follow this train of thought, we'd have banned discussions on generic or low-cost branded DVD players a long time ago. Someone raised that point as well and asked if the PinoyDVD mods could ensure that whenever people talked about cheap DVD players and DVD players that were DivX compatible, the content sources referred to were legitimate ("Kung mura yung player, baka puro pirata lang yung bala..."). Same banana. And my short answer was "We can't ensure legitimacy." I even suggested that if the sentiment against DivX/Xvid was widespread, perhaps an online petition can be started to convince all the hardware manufacturers to remove this feature in future models.

Just to be clear: my position is that hardware is agnostic. References to content played on such hardware cannot be presumed to be pirated unless specific statements in the thread confirm that.

Regarding the sale of NMTs, most recently the eGreat, we're considering ideas on how to better moderate that since despite repeated warnings and PMs, sellers still insist on mentioning "packages" and "freebies".