Author Topic: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever  (Read 27238 times)

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Offline edrel sison

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #90 on: Feb 28, 2010 at 10:01 PM »
well probably tony can help us out on how we can do "booster" irons so we can put your germaniums into good use..

6F6G you will need a very good PTX & choke too.. ;D ;D

Offline JojoD818

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #91 on: Feb 28, 2010 at 11:01 PM »
sir Tony,

AD162 sir in TO-66 package, PNP /20V /1A /Audio power/ according to specs.




hi efren,

ganyan yun ginamit na driver transistors ng GAS amp...



sir Edrel,

during those days (even up to now) there is IPT/OPT available for 50W the size of 750mA power xformer as advertised,
100W the size of 5A power xformer for their opt, 200W the size of 10A xformer, all made by MIYAMA. also one thing, there is no secondary for OPT, the speakers are directly tapped at the primary windings,.

commercially labeled at 50W output/ch but I think 20W is the maximum, btw "PMPO" for me is "Post Marketing Pampapogi Only ;D ;D ;D

the germaniums that I have now can deliver 8W of clean audio/ch, 6devices/ch in push pull mode. anyway this discussion is for educational purposes for now, I have my mind set for those two remaining OPT's for my
6F6G, :D :D :D "cause i'm planning to bi-amp.


I remember tuloy those days I use Lion trannies... :)


Offline ATJr.

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #92 on: Mar 01, 2010 at 04:45 AM »
well probably tony can help us out on how we can do "booster" irons so we can put your germaniums into good use..

6F6G you will need a very good PTX & choke too.. ;D ;D

yes, i remember that the input traffo had 64 turns of #26 wire primary and 2 x 150turns of #30 wires bifilliar wound secondaries...on a 1/2 inch core...
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Offline ATJr.

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #93 on: Mar 01, 2010 at 05:08 AM »
Quote
I remember tuloy those days I use Lion trannies...


yes, i made my forst push-pull amp using those lion traffos, and tv vertical output tube, 6EM5's....that traffo used diagonal slit E's for the cores.....
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Offline efren_

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #94 on: Mar 01, 2010 at 09:17 AM »
Sir's,

talked about retro ::)....nagkakabukingan tuloy ng edad  :D :D :D

have a nice day to all! ;)
"just keep 'em glowing"

Offline edrel sison

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #95 on: Mar 01, 2010 at 12:17 PM »
so what are we waiting for? fire away that booster! ;D ;D

Offline JojoD818

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #96 on: Mar 01, 2010 at 12:35 PM »
Sir's,

talked about retro ::)....nagkakabukingan tuloy ng edad  :D :D :D

have a nice day to all! ;)

technology lang daw ang tumatanda sir...  ;) (tayo hindi)  ;D ;D ;D

Offline efren_

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #97 on: Mar 06, 2010 at 12:21 PM »
technology lang daw ang tumatanda sir...  ;) (tayo hindi)  ;D ;D ;D

Oo nga po, i totally agree sir! ;D ;D ;D
"just keep 'em glowing"

Offline efren_

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #98 on: Mar 06, 2010 at 12:53 PM »
This expirience might be a lesson to all tube newbies like me:
should I place it on number 1? Here it is:

1.DON'T EVER REMOVE THE SPEAKER LOAD WHILE THE AMP IS OPERATING.
Lots of nasty things can happen, like arching(just what happen to my amp) that can burn through your tube socket( ceramic socket is immune, mine is made of pcb material.), a busted OPT :o( the reason why i ordered a set of new OPT's from sir edrel), or worse, a fried tube :'(.

any additional info is very much welcome, this may prevent costly damage or even fatal :o in the future if we are aware of the consequences & responsibilities involved in such a wonderful and rewarding hobby... :D
"just keep 'em glowing"

Offline edrel sison

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #99 on: Mar 07, 2010 at 02:11 PM »
efren, tube amps are designed and meant to drive a load so dont you ever ever do that again ;D ;D

kung hindi marami ako gagawing OPT sayo! ;D ;D

Offline ATJr.

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #100 on: Mar 07, 2010 at 04:46 PM »
This expirience might be a lesson to all tube newbies like me:
should I place it on number 1? Here it is:

1.DON'T EVER REMOVE THE SPEAKER LOAD WHILE THE AMP IS OPERATING.
Lots of nasty things can happen, like arching(just what happen to my amp) that can burn through your tube socket( ceramic socket is immune, mine is made of pcb material.), a busted OPT :o( the reason why i ordered a set of new OPT's from sir edrel), or worse, a fried tube :'(.

any additional info is very much welcome, this may prevent costly damage or even fatal :o in the future if we are aware of the consequences & responsibilities involved in such a wonderful and rewarding hobby... :D


it happened to me also, and the reason for this is an open secondary opt offers an infinite load to the tube, now we all know that current accros an infinite load is infinite volts, soon the insulation on your opt breaks down and fries, releasing that magic smoke....... ;D

a high resistance load accross the secondary, like 470 ohm resistor, can help in most cases if there is a chance that the speaker may be disconnected in use....
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Offline alexg

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #101 on: Mar 08, 2010 at 11:34 AM »
I have a friend in Mindanao (Cotabato) who burned his OPT testing his speaker without a load on the other channel.
I went fishing the other day, and I caught a BIG ONE!

Offline efren_

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #102 on: Mar 08, 2010 at 11:37 AM »
Many, many thanks sir Tony, very informative sir.
now for number 2.

ELECTROCUTION HAZARD!!! behind those sweet & warm sounding tubes are lethal voltages (300 volts dc- 800 volts depending on the design or output power.) Even if your amp is unplugged, chances are the filter caps still retain  lethal voltages, damages can range from broken tubes because you jerk so hard you knock your amp off the table or worse what the doctors call "fibrillation" after they took a post mortem examination because your wife suspects a foul play  :'(

If you really are itching for a tweak, unplugged, discharge those caps, and proceed. Better be safe than sorry ;)
"just keep 'em glowing"

Offline JojoD818

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #103 on: Mar 09, 2010 at 12:17 AM »
Many, many thanks sir Tony, very informative sir.
now for number 2.

ELECTROCUTION HAZARD!!! behind those sweet & warm sounding tubes are lethal voltages (300 volts dc- 800 volts depending on the design or output power.) Even if your amp is unplugged, chances are the filter caps still retain  lethal voltages, damages can range from broken tubes because you jerk so hard you knock your amp off the table or worse what the doctors call "fibrillation" after they took a post mortem examination because your wife suspects a foul play  :'(

If you really are itching for a tweak, unplugged, discharge those caps, and proceed. Better be safe than sorry ;)


Always be extra careful when working with those lethal voltages, I know of an old guy who also works with tubes but unfortunately he can't have kids anymore, of course he makes up stories that he just doesn't want to have kids.

He must have short circuit or fried a nerve but the good news is he's still alive and one of his heads is still working.


Offline edrel sison

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #104 on: Mar 09, 2010 at 07:40 AM »
800V...bordering on an electric chair's potential.. ;D ;D

has not been abolished yet? the death penalty?? ;D ;D

break muna tayo sa tubes..PACQUIAO VS. CLOTTEY muna!

wait, one guy asked me to do a 500-0-500V power transformer, sum it up and you have 1KV... :o :o..

pwede gawa na lang tayo booster?? ;D ;D ;D

Offline efren_

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #105 on: Mar 09, 2010 at 05:30 PM »
Sirs,

I was wondering if I connect a 4ohm driver to my 8ohms output (OPT) what will be the effect?
Sakuma san uses this kind of approach( His amps usually is 16 ohms and the drivers is 8ohms) there is not much detailed explanation except japanese diy'ers say this approach "might or will destroy speakers". One thing is clear, it is purely mismatch, but when critics auditoned his work, they were silent on the subject, and Sakuma would seem to express"......"you were saying?"....

please enlighten... :)
"just keep 'em glowing"

Offline efren_

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #106 on: Mar 14, 2010 at 08:39 PM »
sir edrel,

I will be implementing this topology in my next project, uses 6V6 (same pin lay out as 6F6 which I have) and 6SJ7 also readily available. As you can see the OPT is connected at cathode instead of plate, the specs of OPT states: "6000 ohms to vc (adjusted so that primary resistance is 250 ohms to dc)" 45mA plate current. Is the AT-0087 sufficient enough?



btw, sir busy yata sa new projects?
"just keep 'em glowing"

Offline ATJr.

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #107 on: Mar 15, 2010 at 06:31 AM »
Quote
one guy asked me to do a 500-0-500V power transformer, sum it up and you have 1KV...  

with todays' silicon rectifiers, these kind of voltages need not be.......with attendant insulation problems and care....

using a voltage doubler rectifier arrangement, you only need 250volts ac winding, you can have heavier wires and regulation will be good, efficiency up.... ;D

as for me, tube rects are better used on pre-amps and other low current apps.... ;D

during the tube's heydeys, using tube rects were more of a nesscesity, designers of those era had no other alternatives......but today is another day.....tubes rects today are more of a choice, nostalgia if you will.... ;D
« Last Edit: Mar 15, 2010 at 06:34 AM by TonyT »
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Offline efren_

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #108 on: Mar 15, 2010 at 09:36 AM »
sir Tony,

good day sir, can you please comment on the topology that I have just posted, bago kasi sa paningin ko ang cathode driven OPT, or should I stick with the plate driven ???

Btw i think sir Edrel is busy with his new project, ayaw paabala ;D
Many thanks sir Tony :)
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Offline ATJr.

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #109 on: Mar 15, 2010 at 10:30 AM »
while cathode drive gives less distortion, driving it will be harder...distortion is shifted to the driver stage instead.

total grid drive in peak volts = output volts + grid bias volts....

in your case, 6000ohm to speaker load, say 5 watts output, your cahode will have to deliver to the opt a peak voltage of 173volts, add to that is your grid which adds up to about 186 volts peak signal input to your 6v6 grid...

whereas if plate loaded, you just have grid bias volts to consider, your driver will do less work and will have less distortion....you only need to swing about 13 volts to the 6V6 grid.....

you can try it and see for yourself... ;D
« Last Edit: Mar 15, 2010 at 02:54 PM by TonyT »
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Offline efren_

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #110 on: Mar 16, 2010 at 11:02 AM »
sir Tony,

Thank you sir, i'll stick to the plate loaded, it will be a waste of effort, time & money to build just to dismantle it again just because because i'm not happy the way it performs, and I hope this educate not only me who is a newbie in tubes but others like me who read this post, very educative, my hat's off to you sir Tony!!! 8) 8) 8)

One more sir,...after you post about rectifiers, I replaced the 5Y3GT in my amp with pea sized VO6C rectifiers rated at 1 amp each( i used 4, two per tap in full wave)and here are the positive results:

1. no voltage drop- with tube rect, at power on 286 volts, settled at 236 volts after warming up.
                           with silicon rect. steady at 336 volts +/- 2 volts variation which is negligible.

2.sonic qualities/ transparency- I was amazed as the sound became much  more transparent, if I may   
                                           desribe, it is "clear as a crystal", as a bonus the bass was more tighter.
                                            Even at low levels, it is well defined.

Now for the negative:

1. What was dead silent before, now there is hum, my ears about 1-2 inch from the cone; i listened last night at very low levels, at listening position, the good news is hum is inaudible.

2. I usually turn off the lights  when listening at night, the sight of glowing tubes is kind of nostalgic, however since replacement of rectifiers, last night i noticed the slightly dull orange(not really glowing) in the plates of output tubes, a sign maybe they are driven to their limits? ??? or is it just normal considering they are operated purely Class A?
_________________________________________________________________________________________

The OPT's of sir edrel remain at normal operating temperature, even if operating for more than two hrs.
It is just perfect 8) 8) 8)

I wonder what can i do with those spare 5Y3GT & 5U4GB ::) ::) ::) A lot of "tuberos" still prefer tube rectification for a number of reasons, but for me my next project will be silicon rectified. Anyone out there want to swap these two for 6pcs OCTAL Sockets ? ;D
"just keep 'em glowing"

Offline ATJr.

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #111 on: Mar 17, 2010 at 06:23 PM »
sir Tony,

Thank you sir, i'll stick to the plate loaded, it will be a waste of effort, time & money to build just to dismantle it again just because because i'm not happy the way it performs, and I hope this educate not only me who is a newbie in tubes but others like me who read this post, very educative, my hat's off to you sir Tony!!! 8) 8) 8)

One more sir,...after you post about rectifiers, I replaced the 5Y3GT in my amp with pea sized VO6C rectifiers rated at 1 amp each( i used 4, two per tap in full wave)and here are the positive results:

1. no voltage drop- with tube rect, at power on 286 volts, settled at 236 volts after warming up.
                           with silicon rect. steady at 336 volts +/- 2 volts variation which is negligible.

2.sonic qualities/ transparency- I was amazed as the sound became much  more transparent, if I may  
                                           desribe, it is "clear as a crystal", as a bonus the bass was more tighter.
                                            Even at low levels, it is well defined.

Now for the negative:

1. What was dead silent before, now there is hum, my ears about 1-2 inch from the cone; i listened last night at very low levels, at listening position, the good news is hum is inaudible.

2. I usually turn off the lights  when listening at night, the sight of glowing tubes is kind of nostalgic, however since replacement of rectifiers, last night i noticed the slightly dull orange(not really glowing) in the plates of output tubes, a sign maybe they are driven to their limits? ??? or is it just normal considering they are operated purely Class A?
_________________________________________________________________________________________

The OPT's of sir edrel remain at normal operating temperature, even if operating for more than two hrs.
It is just perfect 8) 8) 8)

I wonder what can i do with those spare 5Y3GT & 5U4GB ::) ::) ::) A lot of "tuberos" still prefer tube rectification for a number of reasons, but for me my next project will be silicon rectified. Anyone out there want to swap these two for 6pcs OCTAL Sockets ? ;D


the improvement you heard with the change to silicon rectifiers was brought about by the increase in operating point (plate volts)that the output tube experienced, not nesscesarily because of the silicon rectifiers themselves...

the 6F6 tube really likes 250volts, or thereabouts, so that what you can do is add series resistance to the rectifier legs, you can start with about 47~100ohms/5watts per side to see that the voltages goes below 300volts...

using silicon rects allows you to add more capacitance in the psu, that is worth looking into...

tubes like higher voltages, but one can not just increase it, we have to consider plate dissipation ratings if we want our tubes to last....we should respect the tube ratings, the specs on the tube manuals should be adhered to....

here is a link to patrick turners' website, you can learn many things from this guy....i too draw inspiration from him...http://www.turneraudio.com.au/education+diy.htm
« Last Edit: Mar 17, 2010 at 06:42 PM by TonyT »
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Offline efren_

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #112 on: Mar 19, 2010 at 07:08 PM »
Thank you sir Tony for sharing such an informative site, I just finnish reading a few topics, these are very helpful for tube newbies like me who take the path of tube amplification, he explained each topic clearly, and at times breaking the monotony with his own style of wit & humor.

Like you sir Tony, he is willing to share his knowledge in the field of tubes. :)
"just keep 'em glowing"

Offline blues

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #113 on: Jan 06, 2011 at 11:44 PM »
i'm a fanatics of diy'ers sana maka bisita ko sa nyo sir...

Offline efren_

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Re: RCA-Victor stereo / GE reciever
« Reply #114 on: Jan 13, 2011 at 07:22 PM »
i'm a fanatics of diy'ers sana maka bisita ko sa nyo sir...

do keep visiting the threads here in TUBES sir Blue, lalo na threads ng mga masters (sir Tony, sir Edrel, sir Jojo,.... )when it comes to tubes, trannies and anything diy related to tubes these are the proper authorities ;)
"just keep 'em glowing"