Topic: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines

[dpogs]

sa mga napost ko na list...

as an atheist... alin doon sa mga list ko ang immoral para sa inyo.

[RU9]

sa mga napost ko na list...

as an atheist... alin doon sa mga list ko ang immoral para sa inyo.

reading playboy: yes

I read a lot of playboy during my college years.

What now? Do I go to hell?

[bass_nut]

I read a lot of playboy during my college years.

What now? Do I go to hell?

and penthouse at my end 

if your are a Catholic the confessional box would be a recommended place... then pray hard for forgiveness and see to it we do not do it again ...i hope my sins were forgiven too, after all, my life is in GOD's hands

[alistair]

I read a lot of playboy during my college years.

What now? Do I go to hell?

If you're an atheist, then there is no hell to go to.

If you're Sartre, then hell is other people.

[dpogs]

I read a lot of playboy during my college years.

What now? Do I go to hell?

there is still hope.... a repentant heart and a willingness to turn back from that kind of sin will always be forgiven...

God loves you so much that until now he let you live (since college year) to give you a chance to repent.

[indie boi]

there is still hope.... a repentant heart and a willingness to turn back from that kind of sin will always be forgiven...

God loves you so much that until now he let you live (since college year) to give you a chance to repent.

Which contradicts what you previously posted that we have already been prejudged.

[dpogs]

malinaw na malinaw...


but... there still hope.


kahit sa atin... ang isang taong nahusgahan na ng judge ng kamatayan (lethal injection) ay puwede pang maligtas sa tiyak na kamatayan - a president's call. when a president call, ang nahusgahan will decide whether he/she will accept the president's offer to free him.

[dorian_gray]

shucks!

Mas marami pang butas ang arguments nito kaysa brief ng lolo ko.

[dpogs]

toink....di nagets....


ang isang kriminal na nahusgahan ng ating bansa ng kamatayan (nahusgahan na)... ay may natitira pang pag-asa.... - President's pardon.

just like us... nahusgahan na tayo because of our sin... but there still hope.... - Jesus 

[bass_nut]

shucks!

Mas marami pang butas ang arguments nito kaysa brief ng lolo ko.

pati brief ng lolo mo pinakikialaman mo ?

[dorian_gray]

pati brief ng lolo mo pinakikialaman mo ?

I take care of my aged relatives, including doing their laundry. I hope you are doing the same thing.

[bass_nut]

I take care of my aged relatives, including doing their laundry. I hope you are doing the same thing.

better than yours.. and i do not involve them on forums ..in my book that is respect

[moejun]

guys, please 

[indie boi]

And we are getting way too personal people.

[alistair]

To try and keep the discussion relevant, let me profess some of my views on dpogs' list.

Is homosexuality immoral: No.
Is abortion immoral: Yes, if done on purpose.
Is adultery immoral: Yes, if done on purpose.
Is showing your private parts in public immoral: Yes, if done on purpose.
Is kissing before marriage immoral: No.
Is pre-marital sex immoral: No.
Do you support the RH bill: Yes.
Is displaying a woman's cleavage in public immoral: No.

Let me venture a couple more of my own.

Is being naked immoral? No.
Is being naked around other people in a nudist camp immoral? No.

Is what is legal moral? No.
Is what is illegal immoral? No.

If you think something is not immoral, would you do it? Not necessarily.

[dpogs]

As comparison, kinulayan ko ng red ang sagot ko.

To try and keep the discussion relevant, let me profess some of my views on dpogs' list.

Is homosexuality immoral: No. (YES)
Is abortion immoral: Yes, if done on purpose. (YES)
Is adultery immoral: Yes, if done on purpose. (YES)
Is showing your private parts in public immoral: Yes, if done on purpose. (YES)
Is kissing before marriage immoral: No. (YES)
Is pre-marital sex immoral: No. (YES)
Do you support the RH bill: Yes. (YES)
Is displaying a woman's cleavage in public immoral: No. (YES)

Let me venture a couple more of my own.

Is being naked immoral? No. (YES) if its in public
Is being naked around other people in a nudist camp immoral? No. (YES)

Is what is legal moral? No. (IT DEPENDES)
Is what is illegal immoral? No. (IT DEPENDS)

If you think something is not immoral, would you do it? Not necessarily. WHEN IN DOUBT DONT

[choy]

To try and keep the discussion relevant, let me profess some of my views on dpogs' list.

Is homosexuality immoral: No.
Is abortion immoral: Yes, if done on purpose.
Is adultery immoral: Yes, if done on purpose.
Is showing your private parts in public immoral: Yes, if done on purpose.
Is kissing before marriage immoral: No.
Is pre-marital sex immoral: No.
Do you support the RH bill: Yes.
Is displaying a woman's cleavage in public immoral: No.

Let me venture a couple more of my own.

Is being naked immoral? No.
Is being naked around other people in a nudist camp immoral? No.

Is what is legal moral? No.
Is what is illegal immoral? No.

If you think something is not immoral, would you do it? Not necessarily.

hhhmmm... you have an idea on what morality is

sin is about doing something on purpose.  even in the criminal justice system, intent plays a big part.  if you get into a car accident and kill someone, no one can charge you with homicide unless they prove you are acting with negligence that resulted in the death.  if you practice enough due diligence and the accident still occured, then you cannot be held liable.  same with morality.

there is no abortion that is not intended.  all abortions are intended.  what is not intended is miscarriage.  there is no adultery if its not done on purpose.  if one of the parties is unaware of the other's marital status, then how can it be on purpose?

[alistair]

hhhmmm... you have an idea on what morality is

Don't we all, or does everybody need someone else to tell us what's right and wrong?

there is no abortion that is not intended.  all abortions are intended.

Let's qualify 'intended'. Suppose a pregnant woman is discovered to have a life-threatening cyst or whatever other in her womb. The only way to save her life is to abort the fetus. Otherwise, both mother and child will die. I wouldn't call that 'intended'.

there is no adultery if its not done on purpose.

Except that some people would call victims of rape guilty of 'adultery' (if married) or 'fornication' otherwise and then stone them to death. No, I'm not making this up.

[sardaukar]

hhhmmm... you have an idea on what morality is

sin is about doing something on purpose.  even in the criminal justice system, intent plays a big part.  if you get into a car accident and kill someone, no one can charge you with homicide unless they prove you are acting with negligence that resulted in the death.  if you practice enough due diligence and the accident still occured, then you cannot be held liable.  same with morality.

there is no abortion that is not intended.  all abortions are intended.  what is not intended is miscarriage.  there is no adultery if its not done on purpose.  if one of the parties is unaware of the other's marital status, then how can it be on purpose?

no, a sin is a sin

unawareness of the gravity of a sin only lessens the gravity.  so a mortal sin can become merely a venial sin if you are totally unaware of the gravity of your actions

lack of awareness is different from just outright denying the truth.  the same way innocence is different from ignorance

 

[indie boi]

there is no abortion that is not intended.  all abortions are intended.  what is not intended is miscarriage.

Actually, abortion and miscarriage are interchangeable terms in medicine. Specifically, a miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion.

[dpogs]

Don't we all, or does everybody need someone else to tell us what's right and wrong?

Yes. Definitely yes. Somebody told you what is right and wrong.

[alistair]

Yes. Definitely yes. Somebody told you what is right and wrong.

Like, Santa Claus?

[dpogs]

Like, Santa Claus?

and then somebody told you that santa does not exist.

[alistair]

and then somebody told you that santa does not exist.

Then that person has no morals.

[dpogs]

ibig kong sabihin...

a person have no capability at all to discern what is right and wrong.

makikita natin yan sa mga bata...

kaya nga we need to guide them according to truth... not according to what we know.

Itinuro mo po ba sa anak mo na may Santa Claus? Siyempre hindi...

ang bata kung ano makita niya gagawin niya... kaya nga iguiguide natin sa tama. ngayon dito magkakatalo... paano kung ang magulang ang itinuturo masama din.... eto ang reason dyan... hindi rin naturuan ng tama ang magulang na un....

[alistair]

makikita natin yan sa mga bata...

Sir, ang sanggol hindi rin marunong mag-lakad. Pero, hindi na 'tin sila kailangan turuan mag-lakad.

Ang bawa't tao may consiyensya. Naniniwala ka man sa Espirito Santo o hindi, ke Muslim o atheist ka, hindi mo masasabing wala kang consiyensya.
 
"They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right."
- Romans 2:15

Ang pagkakaintindi ko niyan, ay lahat tayo ay ipinanganak na may consiyensiya at kakayahanag mag-isip, sa pamamagitan nitong dalawang nakakapag desisyon tayo tungkol sa moralidad.

Hindi dahil sabi nang pastor o nang pari o nang teacher o nang magulang ko.

Itinuro mo po ba sa anak mo na may Santa Claus? Siyempre hindi...

Kung naninawala talaga ako kay Santa Claus, bakit hindi?

Kung naninawala ako kay Bathala, bakit hindi ko ituturo sa anak ko tungkol kay Bathala?

[bass_nut]

ang sanggol inaalalayan ng caretaker o magulang para hanggat maaari ay hindi masaktan at madapa ng madalas... ganyan din sa run-about stage at hanggang sa paglaki niya... minsan nga humahanap ng gabay kahit na mayroon na siyang sariling pamilya dahil mayroon siyang tiwala sa mabuting mga hangarin ng magulang niya para sa kinabukasan niya at pamilya niya

[dorian_gray]

Just to react on nudity:

I love nude beaches. Doon walang imoral, walang discussion ng relihiyon at walang pakialam ang mga tao sa hitsura ng katawan mo.

Wait, let me take it back. You will have an idea of a man's religion when he is naked. LOLs!

[alistair]

ang sanggol inaalalayan ng caretaker o magulang para hanggat maaari ay hindi masaktan at madapa ng madalas...

Sir, walang problema sa pag-alalay o sa pag-gabay sa tao (bata man o hindi).

Ang sinasabi ko lang, may mga ilang bagay (katulad nang pag-lalakad) na kahit walang magtuturo sa bata (kahit ma-abandon pa 'yan sa isang isla) ay kusa niyang matututunan.

Maaring hindi pulido o kahanga-hanga ang kanyang paglakad (o ang kanyang moralidad), pero sarili niyang paraan 'yon.

Katulad nang kanyang pananaw (o hindi) sa Diyos, sarili niyang pananaw iyon. Hindi natin puwede pagpilitan na, "Heto, ito ang paniwalaan mo."

Gabayan, oo. Alalayan, oo. Turuan, oo. Isapilitan, hindi.

[dpogs]

Just to react on nudity:

I love nude beaches. Doon walang imoral, walang discussion ng relihiyon at walang pakialam ang mga tao sa hitsura ng katawan mo.

Wait, let me take it back. You will have an idea of a man's religion when he is naked. LOLs!

sir alistair: I mean morality... moral and immoral (not right and wrong).... but a child must always be guided according to righteousness.


OT lang ng kunti:

NUDITY

It is true that Adam and Eve went without clothes when they were created. However, they were at this time in a state of innocence. Though they were intelligent creatures, they had no more sense of right and wrong than a baby does today. However, as soon as sin entered the world, they were ashamed of their nakedness and sought to cover themselves. From that time until now, God has treated nakedness outside of marriage as a shameful thing.

Several actions concerning nakedness (outside marriage where the bed is undefiled - Hebrews 13:4) are condemned in the Bible:

It is a shame and wrong to uncover your nakedness to others. The priests were warned to wear undergarments so that their nakedness would not be discovered when they went up the steps to the altar in their robes. Their undergarments (linen breeches) were to cover from their loins (waist) to their thighs (Exodus 28:42). When the children of Israel made and worshipped the golden calf, Aaron "made them naked unto their shame" (Exodus 32:25). Isaiah 47:3 speaks of the shame of having your nakedness uncovered.
It is a sin to uncover the nakedness of another. This is seen as leading to other sins (see Leviticus 18:6-18).
It is wrong to look on the nakedness of others. Ham's son was cursed because Ham saw the nakedness of his father and went and talked about it (Genesis 9:22-23). Habakkuk 2:15 speaks of the wickedness of those who get someone drunk in order to "look on their nakedness."
One important point I need to make concerns the biblical definition of nakedness. We sometimes get the idea that nakedness refers only to having no clothing at all. However, this is neither true in the Bible nor in the English dictionary. One of the definitions for "naked" in my English dictionary is "without conventional or usual clothing." Many people do not know that the Bible often calls improper covering of the body nakedness. Most often it refers to the wearing of undergarments in public. This explains the nakedness of Saul (1 Samuel 19:24), of David (2 Samuel 6:14, 20; 1 Chronicles 15:27), of Isaiah (Isaiah 20:2-4), and of Peter (John 21:7). It is interesting that Peter did not want Jesus to see him naked.

We understand this definition in practice as well. If a person had no clothing except for a 6-inch square piece of cloth taped to the middle of their back, we would still consider them to be naked. The Bible teaches that improperly covered bodies are still naked. This is interesting in an age when many outer garments do not cover as much as undergarments did a short time ago.

We do not and cannot have the innocence of children. Therefore, we are not to run around in our nakedness. To do so is shameful and to look on the nakedness of others is sinful. Certainly, in working with young children and in working with the sick and elderly, there are times when caretakers will see their nakedness and there is nothing wicked in this (though proper respect should be given and the eyes should be averted when possible). God also makes an exception for a husband and wife. In fact, this is part of the significance of them being made one flesh. However, to purposely uncover our bodies for others to see or to gaze upon the nakedness of others to satisfy our own prurient interest are both sins in the Bible. This rules out any sort of nudist camp and many other things that are practiced today.

Reagan, David