Topic: Bookshelf or Floorstander

[MAtZTER]

Unless all variables are controlled, the shootout will accomplish nothing - and will not even be a conclusive thing to determine if FS is better than BS.

Also, you need golden eared people to evaluate the differences in one sitting. Even the reviewers in websites, stereophile or other HT mags take some time (weeks or months) for them to truly evaluate a gear.

yeah kanya-kanya lang talaga sa audio. cheers!

sana may makapag-post actual user reviews/comparisons of BS vs. FS from same brands ex. wharfedale 8.2 vs. 8.3 / 9.2 vs. 9.4,  B&W602 vs. 602.5 or 603, Mordauntshort 902 vs. 904.
tnx 

Kanya kanya nga talaga yan.

Most of my reviews on FS & BS concern Mission speakers, HK & Yamaha receivers. I placed my list of equipments owned in my blog .

[aHobbit]

...
If you are referring to sensitivity, I have auditioned enough FS & BS the past month to disagree with "specs" based on my experience.
...
Anyway, one example is that I have auditioned 86 sensitivity BS & a 89db FS w/ 2 woofers w/ the same low powered amp. The 86db BS was LOUD & sounded much better, the 89db FS could barely be audible.
...
In my auditions in audio shops, this amp rocked an 89db BS so I wanted to use it w/ the same brand FS with two additional woofers (3 woofers) @ 91 sensitivity. The shop owner claimed it wont be able to power it well. I said "But its 91 db!, sabi sa pdvd kaya daw yan!". Let me give you this store owner's response: "Audio is not only about specs or numbers, some in this hobby are 'by the book', specs driven people, but in my experience w/ all these speakers, you have to really test them yourself to know if an amp can really power them well."

2 days later I met another experienced hobbyist who also auditioned many FS & BS speakers in his search for his, He also rallied the store owner's viewpoint on specs. But there are some FS brands that can truly be easy to drive based on specs. But not all...
...

LOL         
I suddenly remembered my brother and I contacted a Celestion FS seller (4 units in all) coming from a foreign work. Before going there, search the specs in the web and the appearance of the speaker model - and looks like the claim of high sensitivity was true (as shown in web hits). So, me and my bro, armed with a vintage amp, went to the seller, adrenalin high, and test a pair.
...
pffffftt .  . . 

what's wrong?

We went home bringing nothing ... what a sensitivity crap ! Or probably our amplifier that sounded loud on the speakers that we already have, but was eaten whole by those celestions 

... this is an incident that also contributed to a solid audio reasoning today. No guess work ... no hype work ... don't rely on marketing specs ... don't listen to poetic evaluation ... fire it & listen.

Kapag nag umapaw ang kaligayahan mo sa tunog na narinig mo, saka mo na ilabas ang pera mo! Saka mo na intindihin pano salagin ang banat ng commander!     

[odyopayl]

In my understanding, there are factors to consider in selecting your speakers, first BUDGET, secondly ROOM SIZE third is your TYPE OF MUSIC you want. It's true that floor stander speakers have lower frequency range compared to bookshelf type. However, again it depends on the speakers. In my experienced, vocals coming from bookshelf are cleaner compared to floorstander (thats just me) maybe it's the speakers (not so good) well still if I have money I still go to floorstander like Genesis, Eutophia, 800 series (B&W) Stradivari........etch

[synchro_01]

Sir, maybe for you its not true cuz I have the impression you do not use entry level gears at all . Almost any speaker you can throw at your high end gears/electronics will sound good  .

But for me & the regular Joe (or Juan), the majority in this forum who use entry level gears, maybe its a different case. My observations are mostly for HT & concerns entry level gears. I would like to clarify that I actually meant that FS "sound better" w/ upper class gears, but wont they all? 

the category of the gears is not the one in question here. its the comparative analysis between bookshelves and floorstanders irregardless of the cost of the electronics.  FS speakers does not automatically sound better with "upper class gears" as you may say it. Synergy is key here...not the cost of the associating gears.  

If you are referring to sensitivity, I have auditioned enough FS & BS the past month to disagree with "specs" based on my experience.
In my auditions in audio shops, this amp rocked an 89db BS so I wanted to use it w/ the same brand FS with two additional woofers (3 woofers) @ 91 sensitivity. The shop owner claimed it wont be able to power it well. I said "But its 91 db!, sabi sa pdvd kaya daw yan!". Let me give you this store owner's response: "Audio is not only about specs or numbers, some in this hobby are 'by the book', specs driven people, but in my experience w/ all these speakers, you have to really test them yourself to know if an amp can really power them well."

true...specs of the gears are not a guarrantee that you will get the performance that is written on the spec sheet nor will it guarantee you that it would sound good but it is a guide so that you as the consumer could determine what kind of associated gears you will need more or less. Speaker manufacturers take pains in determining what kind of ancilliary equipment are needed so that their product which in this case is the speaker, will more or less perform as they have designed it to be without any compromises.  Example, its foolish and downright silly to buy a Contour 3.0 with an 85d/b sens @ 4ohms if you have a 3 watter tube amp on hand. The cone with the 3 inch voicecoil might not even move at all but for individuals who like to see for themselves and try it out w/o relying on the spec sheet as a guide then its up to you if you have time and resources to do so. Bottomline is that you rely on the specs as a guide but definitely the testing and the home audition would determine the final result if it will indeed be a good match or not.
 

[JojoD818]

What was the question again? 

 

[aHobbit]

Eto po sir!     

sirs   ,

- which is a truer audiophile set-up (well again, that's a relative question)? i feel that audio buffs tend to favor bookshelf speakers over floorstanding ones (?).

- what are the variables to consider here? type of music, tweak-ability, etc.

salamat!

 

Pero para dito po yung contribution ko ...       

...
- what are the variables to consider here? type of music, tweak-ability, etc.
...

... particularly don sa "etc." ...

So tell everything ... no restrictions ... anything under the audiophile sun         

[oweidah]

Synergy is key here...not the cost of the associating gears.   

more synergy mas happy

[JojoD818]

Eto po sir!     


Pero para dito po yung contribution ko ...       

... particularly don sa "etc." ...

So tell everything ... no restrictions ... anything under the audiophile sun         

Parang nasagot na din niya yun tanong eh?  under the "that's a relative question". 

Seriously, been reading the thread from some time now and it has indeed "captivated" my thoughts. 

[accastil]

once again let me repeat..under a cost-no-object environment, BS doesnt stand a chance against a FS. but talking of the same pricepoint, a FS wouldnt stand against a BS/sub combo. here is an example...FS like egglestonworks, strativaldi, grand apogee, evidence master, watt puppy, grand enigma, grand utopia would crush even the best BS/sub combo on earth. however, given a 50 thousand BS/sub and another 50 thousand peso FS, it is just common sense and understandable that the BS/sub combo would provide better sonics. get the point ...why is this? FS produces more box resonance than BS..but then, the insanely expensive FS most probably has gotten a way to fix the unwanted box resonance..but all this at a very large expense.

[aHobbit]

... the insanely expensive FS most probably has gotten a way to fix the unwanted box resonance ...

Did everybody get this?     
Indeed!!!  Physics 101 explained and applied!

[MAtZTER]

once again let me repeat..under a cost-no-object environment, BS doesnt stand a chance against a FS. but talking of the same pricepoint, a FS wouldnt stand against a BS/sub combo. here is an example...FS like egglestonworks, strativaldi, grand apogee, evidence master, watt puppy, grand enigma, grand utopia would crush even the best BS/sub combo on earth. however, given a 50 thousand BS/sub and another 50 thousand peso FS, it is just common sense and understandable that the BS/sub combo would provide better sonics. get the point ...why is this? FS produces more box resonance than BS..but then, the insanely expensive FS most probably has gotten a way to fix the unwanted box resonance..but all this at a very large expense.

Maganda yan, to compare these speakers at the same price point.

I always advice this: Usually, for the cost of an entry level FS, you can buy a mid level BS (of the same brand) w/ much better refinement & SQ. You need to get a better receiver of course, but comparing the sonics of the 2, its a no brainer for me to pick the mid level BS instead.

just my 2 cents.

[Le_Stat]

Get both FS and BS and get both flavors.  Just dont forget to buy an amp that can accomodate the power ratings required by either of the two.   However, kapag meron limit ang budget then it would be dependent upon ones ears on which speaker to get.

[aHobbit]

Get both FS and BS and get both flavors.  Just dont forget to buy an amp that can accomodate the power ratings required by either of the two.   However, kapag meron limit ang budget then it would be dependent upon ones ears on which speaker to get.

I did ... after 2 years, the FS has to go!!!      The BS did not compare well with FS, in mid/hi dept, sold it at an amount equivalent to 2 pairs more of same BS - voila, 6.1 BS! No hyping will ever convinced my ears!     

[pchin]

Bump

[threadlock]

What I do not like with bookshelfs is that it cannot be easily paired with a subwoofer in a tube amp setup, most tube amp setup i've seen do not have subwoofer.

[bumblebee]

Maybe they just don't like using subs.

[pabili]

What I do not like with bookshelfs is that it cannot be easily paired with a subwoofer in a tube amp setup, most tube amp setup i've seen do not have subwoofer.

why dont you do it differently? Maybe, if you showed your success to them, they will follow you, instead of you following them!

[ProtegeManiac]

why dont you do it differently? Maybe, if you showed your success to them, they will follow you, instead of you following them!

I think the problem will be how to feed a signal to the sub. for SS preamps/integrated amps there's always a balanced recording line out, tubes usually have just enough preouts for bi-amping. And in keeping with purist ideas regarding the signal chain, they won't be willing to use the speaker outputs to feed the sub, since it will disrupt the simple and/or straight signal chain principle. Even I wasn't happy with the sound when I tried it, waste of speaker cable.

my personal take on the FS vs BS thing, I barely noticed the difference in the midrange upgrading to a Wharfe 8.4 from an 8.1; what I assume seems to be a more "forward" presentation with the latter was more like I get considerably more bass now, so it wasn't that the midrange was "forward", the bass was just lacking on the BS. At first it the 8.4's lacked focus, but that was because I assumed they'd have the same positioning given they're in the same series; I needed to position them another 1m or so apart. In any case it will all come down to listening.

[aHobbit]

I think the problem will be how to feed a signal to the sub. for SS preamps/integrated amps there's always a balanced recording line out, tubes usually have just enough preouts for bi-amping. And in keeping with purist ideas regarding the signal chain, they won't be willing to use the speaker outputs to feed the sub, since it will disrupt the simple and/or straight signal chain principle.

I understand the problem, but I doubt if that is not solvable with present techniques in electronics. If the input is a CDP, then it is not a problem. If it is a TT, then somebody (following tube practice), can DIY a high-impedance low-freq out from phono circuits if the objective is to keep your tube amp/pre-amp from any alteration.

Though in another note, purist ideas is just ideas. Listening is the "eating" part. Try it and listen. Not all SS-speaker pairing are good. It follows not all tube-sub pairing is good. Short of saying, there can be a tube-sub matching that can be good. Or sound-ear matching can also occur. After all, as you said it, all should come down to listening.

The first strike may not always be good, as we have learned in this hobby, but persistence to find a good match, gear-speaker or sound-ear, will lead you to what you want to hear in a system. It's good you tried it though.

[psychodreamer]

I've been using BS all my life, until recently when I just 'had to' try out a FS.

My most recent BS stayed with me for a year.  Honestly, I was very reluctant to let go of it, as I was very pleased with its sound.  But then, like I said, I just had to try and own a FS.  At first, it sounded like some of the detail that I enjoyed with the BS was missing, I was somewhat disappointed, and I felt that the BS integrated better with my sub.  However, after several nights of experimenting with positioning and sub crossover,  I finally got the detail that I wanted, plus better mid-bass.  Needless to say, my FS will be here to stay with me for many years. 

This is just to share my personal experience with everyone here..    Like someone said, it's a matter of synergy, and that makes possibilities endless with this hobby of ours. 

Does my system sound perfect to my ears?  Still no.. and I think a subwoofer upgrade is my next step forward, but that's another story. 

[accastil]

im a BS user for quite a long time now. i have to confess a FS would be better if:
-the room size would be larger than 20sqm
-the choice of music is more inclined into disco/rock or other genres having lots of bass.

otherwise, id still go for a nice BS. a BS/subwoofer combo btw could sometimes better a lone FS.

[moks]

Guys,

What do you suggest for an HT and Audio setup Bookshelf or Floorstanding type of speakers? Is it true that Bookshelf speakers wins over floorstanders in terms os soundstaging and imaging?

[stickfighter]

IMHO, for HT purposes, I believe that floorstanders are the better speakers. This comes from a first hand experience. My very first set-up was a Yamaha HTIB. Then I upgraded to Wharfedale floorstanders. You can really feel the difference in sound. It's more fuller/bolder...more whole.

[qguy]

This is true in the sense that both loudspeakers bookshelves and floorstanders were compared using a small room. Large floorstanders needs space. So if you have a  small room, bookshelves will be the better option.

Guys,

 Is it true that Bookshelf speakers wins over floorstanders in terms os soundstaging and imaging?

[moks]

i'm contemplating on whether or not to use a bookshelf or a floorstander. my options are (1) bookshelf: mission mv-4 (2) floorstander: mission mv-6. i'm just planning to put it in my bedroom. my receiver is a denon 3802. sub is a velo vx-10

[simonzaide]

get a floorstander so that in the future you dont need to upgrade anymore if you decide to upgrade also getting bookshelves mean you have to get stands rin so i would consume space just like a floorstander unless u plan to hang it

[ricky]

Sir for HT imho you can just get BS speakers since it will be set to small settings anyways since all Lfe will be handled by your SUB naman What you can save from buying the BS instead of the FS can be put to other use, maybe for an additional SUB

[milken]

For HT, bookshelf is enough since they produce sound effects only and don't forget to add a very good sub (very important in HT).  But for audio, I prefer floorstanders because of their soundstage and imaging.  The music soundstage is bigger as compared to bookshelf.  I'm comparing the same line of speakers and brand.  IMO the floorstanders version is better than their bookshelf version in the same line.  (Unfair to compare different lines and brand).  Note that room size is an important factor too.  If your room is small, bookshelf is the way to go since floorstanders will sound boomy.

[stickfighter]

get a floorstander so that in the future you dont need to upgrade anymore if you decide to upgrade also getting bookshelves mean you have to get stands rin so i would consume space just like a floorstander unless u plan to hang it

I strongly agree with brader Simon...do you see your HT set-up to be in your bedroom for the rest of your exsistence?   I mean...later on, i assume you will want a dedicated HT and having floorstanders will hinder you from upgrading, unlike the bookshelves.

[blued888]

If you're going the floorstander route, I would suggest you look into the 3-way type. By 3-way I mean a floorstander that has dedicated drivers for lows, mids, highs (i.e. having tweeter, midrange, woofer).