Topic: Stereo (2.0) Music Listening on a 5.1 HT Set-up

[Gwenael]

Guys please enlighten me on this!

I am not sure if this was discussed before but since I could'nt find the thread I would like to ask this again. I consider myself a newbie on this stuff so please bear with me. I am one of those pdvd members who doesn't have a dedicated audio set-up and just using my 5.1 HT set-up for my music listening. I recently upgraded my fronts to Dali Ikon 6, this was set to "small" together with my center and surrounds with subwoofer set to "yes" in my Marantz 5.1 configuration. I listen to music with my receiver dialed or set to stereo (2.0) and set to source direct (s-direct).

Now my question is, do i  have to change my front setting to "large" whenever i would like to listen to music at 2.0 stereo only so the speaker would run full-range? Or it is not needed as the receiver will automatically set the front to large or full-range whenever I set the receiver to stereo (2.0)?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[accastil]

set it to stereo mode, set the front speaker settings to large, and put it on direct mode.
this should give you the best sound reproduction for music listening.

[mike c]

there are two kinds of "stereo/direct" on receivers ...

one is "pure direct" where you don't have to set the speakers to large, it's automatic 2.0

the other is "stereo" this one i'm not sure of, baka 2.1 ang labas niyan.

kamusta sir ang 2.0 vs. 2.1 sa setup niyo?

[Gwenael]

@ sir accastil and sir mike c thanks for your reply, appreciate it a lot.

To be honest, i wasn't able to play as much as i'd like to on the receiver setting when i replaced my old floorstander with the new set of floorstander. But, I was able to listen on a stereo 2.0 (s-direct set to on), 5.1 (multi-ch stereo) and using the 6.1 channel analog input of the receiver.

If I remember it right, when listening to stereo and s-direct enabled I cannot hear any sound coming from the sub meaning its only 2.0. I like this setting better than the multi-channel when listening to music.

I'm yet to try the other setttings though especially 2.1, no time to play with it as my vacation was simply too short...i'll try it next time.

cheers

[NeilDapul]

guys, rookie here. please help...

the topic on 2.0 and 2.1 with regard to music listening interests me. back in the late 90's, i was one of those who got hooked on car audio (12" woofers, power amps, separates, etc). it was really loud and most of the time annoying, but i was after the clarity - no bs here. so, where im coming from is really a bass-oriented/loud music setup.

then i moved on to a simple av setup. not at all different except for the 2.0 part.

talaga bang dapat walang woofer when listening to music?

id really appreciate any reply on this topic.

[mike c]

guys, rookie here. please help...

the topic on 2.0 and 2.1 with regard to music listening interests me. back in the late 90's, i was one of those who got hooked on car audio (12" woofers, power amps, separates, etc). it was really loud and most of the time annoying, but i was after the clarity - no bs here. so, where im coming from is really a bass-oriented/loud music setup.

then i moved on to a simple av setup. not at all different except for the 2.0 part.

talaga bang dapat walang woofer when listening to music?

id really appreciate any reply on this topic.

definitely not.  back in the day, nakakasapaw talaga ng music ang mga subwoofers.  but nowadays, meron nang mga sub na super clean tumunog. 

ang layo ng with and without subwoofer IMO.  kulang talaga ng isang octave yung bottom end without the subwoofer.

[av_phile1]

Using active subwoofers is a form of bi-amping.  Audiophles as early as the 60s who do bi-amping have been using them, though they were not called as such, just low and high frequency sets.   There are few floorstanders that can deliver the best of low and high frequency propagation in any room.  The nature of correct stereo imaging given by mid-high frequencies and getting good bass responses require room placement of speakers that are diametrically opposed.  The former requires you to put the speakers far from room boundaries, the other needs to be near room boundaries. The two are best served using bi-amping with separate speaker boxes for each channel.  A good set of subwooders can do the job.  

Having said that, you need to ensure that the crossover points between the sub and main speakers are observed without adjacent frequency overlaps or your mids could be muddled and get peaking at those frequencies. 

[mike c]

@ sir accastil and sir mike c thanks for your reply, appreciate it a lot.

To be honest, i wasn't able to play as much as i'd like to on the receiver setting when i replaced my old floorstander with the new set of floorstander. But, I was able to listen on a stereo 2.0 (s-direct set to on), 5.1 (multi-ch stereo) and using the 6.1 channel analog input of the receiver.

If I remember it right, when listening to stereo and s-direct enabled I cannot hear any sound coming from the sub meaning its only 2.0. I like this setting better than the multi-channel when listening to music.

I'm yet to try the other setttings though especially 2.1, no time to play with it as my vacation was simply too short...i'll try it next time.

cheers

kailan ba next vacation mo sir?

[markcrenz]

generally a 2.1 system would sound better than a 2.0 stereo setup. this will relieve the main amp & speakers the stress of reproducing very low frequencies. i agree that this is a form of bi-amping. true bi-amping would be a 2.2 system and require a stereo amp for the mid/hi and another stereo amp for the bass.

for proper mains/sub integration a professional calibration is the best route. most systems sound excellent at thx-recommended 80hz crossover point. alternatively you can do the ff: check the specs of your speakers for the lower frequency response point; for floorstanders this usually around 35 to 60 hz. set your speakers to small and the crossover @ 1.5 to 2x this frequency. play some tracks you are familiar with and adjust the sub level such that it provides slam but does not drown the mid & high frequencies.

[Gwenael]

kailan ba next vacation mo sir?

@ sir mike c, kababalik ko lang last jan 8...mga late April or early May na uwi ko ulit God willing.

Thanks.

[NeilDapul]

thanks guys for your replies.

heres another one, please dont mind.

my receivers bass out has options: front, subs, and both. it was set at both before. however, sir mike c (thank you, sir), suggested i put them on subs only so as not to stress my fronts. i did this but no bass came out of the subs. i checked the front speaker settings and it was at large. i experimented. i put all speaker settings to small and bass came out of the subs. by the way, i have yamaha floor standing speakers.

is this the correct setting? any suggestions?

again, thank you in advance.

[markcrenz]

thanks guys for your replies.

heres another one, please dont mind.

my receivers bass out has options: front, subs, and both. it was set at both before. however, sir mike c (thank you, sir), suggested i put them on subs only so as not to stress my fronts. i did this but no bass came out of the subs. i checked the front speaker settings and it was at large. i experimented. i put all speaker settings to small and bass came out of the subs. by the way, i have yamaha floor standing speakers.

is this the correct setting? any suggestions?

again, thank you in advance.

you're on the right track. next step would be to experiment with the avr's crossover setting for the best bass output.

[NeilDapul]

thank you sir markcrenz.

this is getting very interesting. what exactly is a good setting? the avr is currently at 60Hz. the sub has a separate setting at 50hz. honestly, i dont know which setting has control over the other.

the history here is that i asked a car audio fanatic friend of mine how to achieve soft, steady bass. i dont know how its called here in pdvd, pero "gapang" tawag namin dun eh. so he said set it at low Hz. so thats what i did.

it sounds good to me, but what do i know? please correct me if im wrong.

thanks.

[av_phile1]

The ideal is to have both at the same -3db cutover or crossover point.  But these things are never really accurate.  Because your room mode could actually be peaking at those -3db points and those subwoofer crossover electronics working in the analog domain don't always allow precise crossover settings.  Your receiver would have a more precise cutoff as its bass management circuit operates in the digital domain.

Your receiver has the primacy as it sends the frequencies below 60 hz to your sub.  You can just set the sub at its highest crossover point since it won't be receiving anything above 60hz at -3db anyway.    But  if you set the sub at 50hz, the sub will be filtering out frequencies above 50hz but below what the receiver sends which in this case is 60hz.  This can result in a "hole" between 50hz and 60hz.   I won't discount this though, it may actually sound better or less boomy due to the inaccuracies of the sub's control of its crossover point.

If you have an SPL meter and a sweep of 100hz to 20hz, check the frequency response at your listening chair. The objective is to achieve a seamless crossover between sub and main without loud (peaks) or soft (valleys) points.  See if you can do that, even with just your ears.  Those THX certified DVDs have a sub-menu item for playing the sweep.  
 

[NeilDapul]

thank you sir av_phile1.

i tried having both receiver and sub at the same frequency level. however, the receiver can be only be set at 40Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz, etc. the sub, on the other hand, has a knob that has a 50hz as its lowest and 200Hz as its highest. no markings or lines to indicate specific frequencies. i didnt want to guess so i set it at its lowest and set the receiver to 60Hz. i chose 60Hz because 40Hz might be too low.

anyway, the subwoofer did come with a remote-like spl meter and a cd. i have yet to study how it works. also, it requires that i disconnect all 5 speakers when i do the test.

thank you so much sir. til next time.

[av_phile1]

You have a lot of crossover options then.  You could set the receiver at 80hz which frees the receiver's amp from the high current requiement of frequencies starting at that point and below.  It is a fact that low frequencies eat about 40% of your amplifier's current reserves that could induce harmonic distortions at high volumes or diminish headroom capability.  Your sub can then work on the frequencies it is meant to be good at.   Assuming it is one of those models than can .  Specialization still rules in the audio world. 

[mike c]

neil,

like sir avphile said, set all your speakers to small with crossover at 80hz.

but i would like to add:
on the sub, set it to 200hz so it will let the receiver control the crossover.

[NeilDapul]

neil,

like sir avphile said, set all your speakers to small with crossover at 80hz.

but i would like to add:
on the sub, set it to 200hz so it will let the receiver control the crossover.

thank you sir mike c. i really appreciate the help. if i set the sub at 200Hz, wont it be punchy? di ba mawawala yung lambot and gapang?

[NeilDapul]

You have a lot of crossover options then.  You could set the receiver at 80hz which frees the receiver's amp from the high current requiement of frequencies starting at that point and below.  It is a fact that low frequencies eat about 40% of your amplifier's current reserves that could induce harmonic distortions at high volumes or diminish headroom capability.  Your sub can then work on the frequencies it is meant to be good at.   Assuming it is one of those models than can .  Specialization still rules in the audio world. 

thank you, sir av_phile1. im learning to experiment and tinker. thats good, right?
anyway, my sub is a mordaunt short genie 409. is it one of the models that can? 

[markcrenz]

thank you sir mike c. i really appreciate the help. if i set the sub at 200Hz, wont it be punchy? di ba mawawala yung lambot and gapang?

hindi. coz when you set the avr's crossover at 80 it already filters the upper bass or those above 80hz. setting your sub crossover at 200 will have minimal effect on its frequency response but will still help by further filtering any upper frequency resonance of the box and the port/s.

btw you're doing a good job with those experiments. it's a very good way to learn. keep it up. 

[av_phile1]

thank you, sir av_phile1. im learning to experiment and tinker. thats good, right?
anyway, my sub is a mordaunt short genie 409. is it one of the models that can? 

Don't ask me, I'm biased as I am also a Mordaunt-Shorts user.   

[NeilDapul]

hindi. coz when you set the avr's crossover at 80 it already filters the upper bass or those above 80hz. setting your sub crossover at 200 will have minimal effect on its frequency response but will still help by further filtering any upper frequency resonance of the box and the port/s.

btw you're doing a good job with those experiments. it's a very good way to learn. keep it up. 

thank you sir markcrenz!
this is great. ive learned a lot on one thread alone.

interconnects naman. is there a thread here on pros and cons of optical vs. analog (red and white) for music listening?

[NeilDapul]

Don't ask me, I'm biased as I am also a Mordaunt-Shorts user.   

thank you sir av_phile1. took your advice, as well as sir mike cs and sir markcrenzs, on crossover frequency. i have to say it sounds better and fuller.

by the way, now i know what to get when i decide to upgrade my speakers.