Topic: to tube or not to tube?

[Zitr0]

Hi sirs, hihingi lang sana ako ng advice / opinion on this? If this has been alread talked about, i d appologize but i guess may mali sa searches ko and kindly guide me please.

Problem ko kase is i like some part of the SS sound and some part on tubes on the overall sound produced. Its like lush inviting mids with smooth highs on the tubes then impact, dynamic presentation, bass slam and some high extensions on the SS sound?

Is there a possibility to have both? Or is this a compromise that we all have to decide on as to what we would prioritize?


Maraming salamat sirs sa kahit anung inputs...

[macdon]

Hi sirs, hihingi lang sana ako ng advice / opinion on this? If this has been alread talked about, i d appologize but i guess may mali sa searches ko and kindly guide me please.

Problem ko kase is i like some part of the SS sound and some part on tubes on the overall sound produced. Its like lush inviting mids with smooth highs on the tubes then impact, dynamic presentation, bass slam and some high extensions on the SS sound?

Is there a possibility to have both? Or is this a compromise that we all have to decide on as to what we would prioritize?


Maraming salamat sirs sa kahit anung inputs...

While not a total solution, its still getting the best of both worlds - go "hybrid".
SS power amp and a tube preamp

[praktikal]

While not a total solution, its still getting the best of both worlds - go "hybrid".
SS power amp and a tube preamp

+1 if limited budget pero wala naman atang problema sa budget eh 

[reynold]

yeah go Hybrid sir, there are lots of hybrid out there, pinaka-mura is the Sakura AV-200 (less than 4k lang)... nandyan din ang dared mp-5, i remember last sunday sa trinoma 5th ave, may hybrid tube amp, exact clone of dared mp-5 pero iba ang brand, try to audition it sir

marami pang mas maganda pero mas mahal

[Stagea]

yeah go Hybrid sir, there are lots of hybrid out there, pinaka-mura is the Sakura AV-200 (less than 4k lang)... nandyan din ang dared mp-5, i remember last sunday sa trinoma 5th ave, may hybrid tube amp, exact clone of dared mp-5 pero iba ang brand, try to audition it sir

Hindi yan clone bro, higher spec daw siya made by the same maker. Branded differently. Better tubes and internals daw, pero malaki price difference. Alam ko asa 19k yan.

[Stagea]

Is there a possibility to have both? Or is this a compromise that we all have to decide on as to what we would prioritize?

For me compromise siya, pero pwede mo naman paghaluin as they say (Hybrid). Saka magkakaiba naman tunog ng iba ibang tubes at iba ibang solid state gear. Baka makahanap ka ng sasakto sayo.

May mga tubes kasi na may dynamics din, at may mga solid state na malambing din tumunog. Kinig kinig ka lang baka may mahanap kang sasakto sayo.

Good luck sa search bro.

[oweidah]

Hi sirs, hihingi lang sana ako ng advice / opinion on this? If this has been alread talked about, i d appologize but i guess may mali sa searches ko and kindly guide me please.

Problem ko kase is i like some part of the SS sound and some part on tubes on the overall sound produced. Its like lush inviting mids with smooth highs on the tubes then impact, dynamic presentation, bass slam and some high extensions on the SS sound?

Is there a possibility to have both? Or is this a compromise that we all have to decide on as to what we would prioritize?


Maraming salamat sirs sa kahit anung inputs...

imho, compromise lagi sa audio. walang perfect system. nasa iyo kung mag-tubes, hybrid o ss to obtain your preferred sound. you can also go the diy route mas may flexibility sa tweaking modification ng amp/speakers even cdp to attain your preferred "perfect" sound.

why not start with 6bq5/el84 amp for that tubey sweetness and warmth or el34/6ca7 if you want more bass and balanced mids/hf.

btw its best you use high sensitive speakers diy or branded. 93d+.

[markcrenz]

Problem ko kase is i like some part of the SS sound and some part on tubes on the overall sound produced. Its like lush inviting mids with smooth highs on the tubes then impact, dynamic presentation, bass slam and some high extensions on the SS sound?

biamp! get an active crossover and feed your mid-hi with a tube amp and the low with ss amp. best of both worlds.

[ATJr.]

biamp! get an active crossover and feed your mid-hi with a tube amp and the low with ss amp. best of both worlds.

agreed....the output traffo on any tubed amp limits the lows.....an SS amp having no output traffo's does not suffer from such limitations....

tube amps excell in the mids and highs.....

[Zitr0]

biamp! get an active crossover and feed your mid-hi with a tube amp and the low with ss amp. best of both worlds.

this might seem a problem sir, for this i think would only be good on a DIY speaker systems for either full active systems or semi-active system w/ no x-overs. using this on BS or FS with their built-in passive crossovers would possibly trigger mis coherency of sound between speakers and possible phasing issues both lateral and vertical. this is due to the passive x-over with its built in cut and slope... using another x-over from an external source would simply attenuate the signal  on the x-over built-in... besides phase changes on every 6db slope you use to cut the frequency there is the problem of using diff x-over technology where-in ibaiba and manner nila ng slope, example would be a linkwiz xover and butterworth, though we may be able to cut the both letsay at 12db slope, the butterworth would still be steeper than the linkwiz x-over...


kindly correct me if im wrong sirs...

[Zitr0]

BTW: sir, i was just wondering, i have been reading around and i was just thinking if the sound im describing would be like NAD? nagulat lang kase ako nung nagbabasa ako ng CDP's,  amps etc... parang NAD sound kaya yung description ko? or is this really tubes?

How would we be describing the NAD's sound of warm, luscious mids with a bang on the low end vs the tube sound of warm, luscious mids?

[rascal101]

I think your goal is perfectly achievable using primarily SS or tube gears. You can either go branded or DIY. Just remember to make sure that the amplifier can drive your speakers well eg amplifier output power >> power rating of speakers.

Based on my experience and opinion, training your ears is the first thing to do. Personally, I would go for sound that is as close to what an instrument or how a person sounds in actual. The reason I say so is because descriptions vary from person to person and is very difficult to accurately say that two people have the same reference. Based on one persons sound reference, what the other one hears may not be so good. This is the reason I listen over and over to what the real piano or instrument sounds. I also listen to how real people sing. It is only after I have "memorized" these sounds that I compare vs what the audio set-up sounds. Added 9/7/2010 11:39am, note: I don't memorize electronic instruments

For me, what is the point of selecting an amplifier whether SS or tubes if its output is not close to the real instrument or the real voice? Due to this, I believe that it is only after your ears are trained are you able to make an informed decision which to select.

[Zitr0]

as for tube preamp's ano po ang mga recommended nyo? one thing na nakikita ko is the BABY T by sir jojo, any other available on the price range?

[airbender88]

Mga sirs i need your expertize regarding dared mp-5 hybrid amp. Just ordered this hybrid amp recently and im planning to connect with it a t-amp dta-100 and an active sub in the near future. My question is; how can i connect the t-amp and the sub in the pre-amp section of the mp-5 so i can achieve a sound combination of t-amp and tube amp? The mp-5 has only 1 pair rca input, 1 headphone output, 2 sets of speaker posts and a usb dac.  No plans to change any input or output of the hybrid amp. Any suggestions for additional modifications (ie; sub-out, pre-out installations) is much appreciated. Is it possible? Am just new to this hobby kasi and i need your brilliant ideas so as to know where, whom and what is best to this set-up. Thanks in advance. Enjoy your gears.

[Stagea]

as for tube preamp's ano po ang mga recommended nyo? one thing na nakikita ko is the BABY T by sir jojo, any other available on the price range?

The Dared SL-2000a is the only other tube preamp that I know of that is selling at a similar price.

[Nelson de Leon]

Bi-amp using the speaker's built-in xovers. Though some say that there are time issues in such configuration, if it's good for you, then by all means, go na. 

I think your goal is perfectly achievable using primarily SS or tube gears. You can either go branded or DIY. Just remember to make sure that the amplifier can drive your speakers well eg amplifier output power >> power rating of speakers.

For me, what is the point of selecting an amplifier whether SS or tubes if its output is not close to the real instrument or the real voice? Due to this, I believe that it is only after your ears are trained are you able to make an informed decision which to select.

Yes sir. Could you give an example of a proper combination of gears (cdp, amp & speakers) to your preference that would convey the real sound of instruments or voices?

The Dared SL-2000a is the only other tube preamp that I know of that is selling at a similar price.

AMX, AFAIK also has a similarly priced tube preamp.

[Nelson de Leon]

teka... Zitro of KAC?

[macdon]

as for tube preamp's ano po ang mga recommended nyo? one thing na nakikita ko is the BABY T by sir jojo, any other available on the price range?

Jojod could be an excellent resource for you as he can customize a tube preamp to your liking. My hybrid consist of a jojod aikido preamp which is one of his best preamp to date. Of course, he also makes the inexpensive BabyT which is gaining popularity.
Infact, Jojod can build you a hybrid system of ss power & tube preamp in one chassis

You can also search for a Tono Violin preamp - funk firm was selling one awhile back, but withdrew it due to lack of interest ata.

[Nelson de Leon]

You can also search for a Tono Violin preamp - funk firm was selling one awhile back, but withdrew it due to lack of interest ata.

Not for sale na daw. Enjoying his preamp na.

[markcrenz]

Biamp- medyo madugo pero it's really worth it if implemented properly. I won't go into details, almost everything's here: http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

Real voices? Mahirap yata pumili ng amp based on that criteria. Pagpasok pa lang ng performer's voice sa mic may coloration na agad yan. Add mo pa ang compression, equa, reverb, etc. to improve the voice during mixing and processing, wala na yung real voice. And we don't "know" the artist's real voice to begin with. 

[retro12195]

For me compromise siya, pero pwede mo naman paghaluin as they say (Hybrid). Saka magkakaiba naman tunog ng iba ibang tubes at iba ibang solid state gear. Baka makahanap ka ng sasakto sayo.

May mga tubes kasi na may dynamics din, at may mga solid state na malambing din tumunog. Kinig kinig ka lang baka may mahanap kang sasakto sayo.

Good luck sa search bro.

sir anong brand ng solid state yong malambing tumunog?thanks rod

[Nelson de Leon]

sir anong brand ng solid state yong malambing tumunog?thanks rod

Check his sig. 

Peace master guru Stagea!     

[rascal101]

Yes sir. Could you give an example of a proper combination of gears (cdp, amp & speakers) to your preference that would convey the real sound of instruments or voices?

The emphasis here is training your ears. There are many combination to choose from and I would not want to preempt people from making their own informed choices.

[Nelson de Leon]

The emphasis here is training your ears. There are many combination to choose from and I would not want to preempt people from making their own informed choices.

Ah ok. Kinda kaunti lang pa kasi ang mga nadinig ko na live performances so limited talaga ang training ko pagdating dun... Hence, just your opinion sir on what gears you would prefer that would at best simulate the real sound.

[rascal101]

To be honest, what I first listen to is the piano. Since notes in the piano do not extend, I listen how the amplifier performs in this area. I listen if notes are extending. If you are asking which amplifier, any amplifier from the cheapest one I can find to the most expensive one I can afford.

[rascal101]

I basically hang around stores selling musical instruments. If somebody plays the piano, drums or cymbals that is well and good for me as it trains me what this instruments sound like or what their particular characteristics are.

[Stagea]

sir anong brand ng solid state yong malambing tumunog?thanks rod

Sa mga moderate budget gear, check out Arcam, Marantz, Rega, NAD, Denon and HK. Medyo warm and mild sila tumunog kesa sa ibang SS gear sa price range. Of course madami din mga high end na SS gear na ganyan ang character, basta ba open budget eh (mga CJ, Clayton, AR, McCormack, etc.).

[rascal101]

I am coming from the point of view that we should have a common reference so that we have a common understanding. Since there are many variables affecting sound, our subjective point of view may only be valid on the particular time, the particular set-up and the particular room. We also have to consider that not all of us have keen hearing. So from someones point of view, he/she may interpret the person speaking as "incorrect" as he/she has heard the particular set-up but did not appreciate it as much.

[markcrenz]

Ah ok. Kinda kaunti lang pa kasi ang mga nadinig ko na live performances so limited talaga ang training ko pagdating dun... Hence, just your opinion sir on what gears you would prefer that would at best simulate the real sound.

Nakarining ka na ng live drums? I have yet to hear a system that reproduces the real sound of the drum set. Darndest instrument for a recording! All those tuning, miking, damping, eqing, gating, compression, etc. makes the drums and cymbals sound a lot more pleasant to the ears when played through our stereo.

Apparently we're going OT.   

Zitr0 punta ka na lang kina Nelson or Stagea para makarinig ka ng REAL MUSIC to have a point of reference. Handa ka lang about P1.5M para makopya mo gears nila. 

[Stagea]

Check his sig. 

Peace master guru Stagea!     

Loko ka Master Nelson, sayo yung malufet. Choobychoobchoob reference. 

Zitr0 punta ka na lang kina Nelson or Stagea para makarinig ka ng REAL MUSIC to have a point of reference. Handa ka lang about P1.5M para makopya mo gears nila. 

Kila Master Nelson lang at kila Master Marcrenz yun. Nakikirinig lang ako ng systems nila.