Topic: The Religion Thread

[barrister]

 

There is no such thing as 'only Jews were saved under Mosaic law'!

For one, Abraham is not a Jew himself.

I said, "Under the Old Testament, only Jews were saved under Mosaic Law."  Therefore, the "Testament" or "Covenant" I was referring to is the Mosaic covenant.

The Abrahamic covenant, also known as the "Brit bein HaBetarim," is different but connected.

There is no such thing as 'only Jews were saved under Mosaic law'!

...The Jews (Israel) enjoyed God's blessing as a chosen nation, but it is not synonymous to (saved) 'salvation'!

That's your opinion.  I'll let the bible speak for itself:

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. (Jn. 4:22)

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. (Rom. 1:16)

And the harlot Rahab is even in Jesus' lineage.

Malayo na yata sa issue.  Pero magbibigay na rin ako ng comment:

It was common in those days for different people to have the same name.

It is one thing to say that Rahab is in Jesus' lineage, but it is another thing to jump to the conclusion that she and the harlot Rahab are one and the same.

http://www.israelofgod.org/rahab.htm
http://study.faithweb.com/study/Was%20Jesus%20of%20Rahab/Rahab.html

[Klaus Weasley]

Same sex marriage was indeed practiced during the early days of Christianity.

According to the article there was a gay couple who got married and eventually became SAINTS.

[Nelson de Leon]

Same sex marriage was indeed practiced during the early days of Christianity.

According to the article there was a gay couple who got married and eventually became SAINTS.

Depends on what transpired in thier life and the definition of saints.

[ATJr.]

guys marrying gays.....lesbians with another female...sure recipe for the extinction of the homo sapiens species....

are there gay lions or tigers, or chimps or apes, are there gay or lesbians among those?

[Klaus Weasley]

guys marrying gays.....lesbians with another female...sure recipe for the extinction of the homo sapiens species....

There are 7 billion people in the world and counting. I doubt the 10% who are gay & lesbian will have an affect on the population. Some gays and lesbians actually DO reproduce. Either through artificial insemination or in vitro fertilization or simply going into the closet and having children with opposite sex partners.

are there gay lions or tigers, or chimps or apes, are there gay or lesbians among those?

Yes to all of that. There are also gay dolphins, gay dogs, gay cats, gay penguins, etc.

If you wanna discuss the nitty-gritty of homosexuality and gay rights without religion, go to the LGBT thread. Thanks!

[sharkey360]

I found this online.

[sharkey360]

[ATJr.]

There are 7 billion people in the world and counting. I doubt the 10% who are gay & lesbian will have an affect on the population. Some gays and lesbians actually DO reproduce. Either through artificial insemination or in vitro fertilization or simply going into the closet and having children with opposite sex partners.

Yes to all of that. There are also gay dolphins, gay dogs, gay cats, gay penguins, etc.

If you wanna discuss the nitty-gritty of homosexuality and gay rights without religion, go to the LGBT thread. Thanks!

me na meet ka na ba na "mangyan" or aeta na gay?

[Nelson de Leon]

me na meet ka na ba na "mangyan" or aeta na gay?

May nagtanong na din nito sa akin.

[markcrenz]

me na meet ka na ba na "mangyan" or aeta na gay?

May nagtanong na din nito sa akin.

shhh... wag nyo sabihing na-meet nyo na 'ko! 

[ATJr.]

 

[JT]

me na meet ka na ba na "mangyan" or aeta na gay?

Actually it not impossible that there is. Because bible says, the root is idolatry which is prevalent to any tribe or race. Its the spirit of idolatry initially at work which allows the spirit of homosexuality to operate.

The bible says in Ephesians 6:12:
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."

ROmans 1:21-26 says:
"For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to SEXUAL IMPURITY for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

I grew up in Tondo and in the 70's & 80's, maraming takot sa lugar na ito dahil sa mga siga, maton at madalas ang riot. Yet Tondo folks are deeply devoted to Santo Nino and deeply religious. When I visited in the early 2000, I got a big surprise. Dami pa rin siga at maton pero biglang dami bading at tomboy. But still Tondo folks are deeply devoted to Santo Nino and deeply religious.When I visited again in the late 2000, ang daming siga at maton na bading. But now I can sense the spirit of Atheism and Agnosticism is at full operation. Getting the people even the true faithful ones to fall away from faith. I somehow see this pattern in every culture where homosexuality is becoming prevalent. See how Australia, New Zealand and even Europe started. Europe was once a setting place for God's revival. And now at work in the US.

Pls note, idolatry is not confined to statues. The idolatry of modern man is now getting God to conformed with their beliefs and lifestyle. Instead of us conforming to the One True and Holy God as it is written in the bible. People will only take a portion in the bible and use it conform to their standards so that they loose guilt and receive acceptance from the god they have created in their minds. I very much agree with my good friend here that you have to take the bible in its totality, in its full context.

My advice in getting the right understanding from the bible is "You dont read what you believe but believe what you have read". Its either you believe in all that is written or to none at all. Because believing partially will lead you to deception.

[ATJr.]

"You dont read what you believe but believe what you have read".

yan din kaya ang naging katuwiran ni David Koresh kaya inari nya ang mga babae sa secta nya bilang mg asawa nya?

[Nelson de Leon]

People will only take a portion in the bible and use it conform to their standards so that they loose guilt and receive acceptance from the god they have created in their minds. I very much agree with my good friend here that you have to take the bible in its totality, in its full context.

My advice in getting the right understanding from the bible is "You dont read what you believe but believe what you have read". Its either you believe in all that is written or to none at all. Because believing partially will lead you to deception.

Cherry Picking.

[JT]

yan din kaya ang naging katuwiran ni David Koresh kaya inari nya ang mga babae sa secta nya bilang mg asawa nya?

David wants his follower to just believe what he says because its in the bible. His word, not God's Word. That is why he was able to decieve many. Bible says be like the Bereans who check the scriptures for what is being taught. Bible also says "You will know them by their fruit". It is by their doing (how they lead their life) and not just by their sayings that it affirms they are from God.

[Klaus Weasley]

The Bible is not written by God. But by men. It has also gone thousands of translations, interpretations and revisions throughout the centuries as well. Who knows how many passages were misinterpreted and mistranslated over the years? Also not everything written from that era is included in the Bible. (There are more than four Gospels, for example, at least 24 but only Matthew, Mark, Luke and John was decided by the Church to be the "official" ones) Protestant Bibles and Catholic Bibles are also different in that some books from the latter are missing from the former. The Bible has been used to justify slavery, oppression of women and racism as well and those people think that THEIR interpretation of the Bible is the true one.

We also have to understand that the Bible was written in the different time and a different era so a lot of the things that are written there may not be relevant or even compatible with our lives today.

My advice in getting the right understanding from the bible is "You dont read what you believe but believe what you have read". Its either you believe in all that is written or to none at all. Because believing partially will lead you to deception.

So you believe women should be subservient to men and slavery is okay? Because there are even passages in the NEW Testament that says that this is so. We all cherry-pick, my friend. But personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[sharkey360]

Why do some of our fellow Pinoys believe that America was founded as a Christian/Catholic country and that each and everyone of their citizens must bow to and be dictated to the pope?

This is an article that the prayerful ones do not want you to read.

The 12 Best Reasons Why The U.S. Is Not Now, And Never Should Be, A Christian Nation

Christians today have the same problem as their fellow believers of two hundred years ago: “One of the embarrassing problems for the early nineteenth-century champions of the Christian faith was that not one of the first six Presidents of the United States was an orthodox Christian.” –The Encyclopedia Britannica, 1968.

The ‘Christian’ label did not even fit some of our early Presidents. However, whether religious or not, the great intellects of democracy had a vision of all that the United States could be. They wouldn’t have dreamed of imposing religion on their fellow Americans; they knew that this nation’s greatness came from not being a Christian one. In their own emphatic words:

1) “Enforced uniformity confounds civil and religious liberty and denies the principles of Christianity and civility. No man shall be required to worship or maintain a worship against his will.” Roger Williams, Puritan minister and founder of Rhode Island, in The Bloudy Tenet of Persecution, 1644.

2) “As the government of the United States of America is not on any sense founded on the Christian Religion, – as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen (Muslims), – and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” –Treaty of Tripoli

–initiated under President George Washington, 1796

–signed into law by President John Adams, 1797

–ratified unanimously by the Senate, 1797

–Published in full in all 13 states, with no record of complaint or dissent.

3) “But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.”–John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

4) “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship… I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.” –Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT

5) “I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises.”–Thomas Jefferson, letter to Samuel Miller, 1808 [note that this does not say Christian religion; it refers to all religions, equally]

6) “History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose.” –Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

7) “Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.” –James Madison, letter to William Bradford, April 1, 1774

“Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?” –James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of VA, 1795

9) “What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people… A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.” –James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, 1785 
.

10) “During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” –James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance

11) “He had no faith, in the Christian sense of the term– he had faith in laws, principles, causes and effects.” –Supreme Court Justice David Davis, on Abraham Lincoln

12) “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” –First Amendment, Constitution of the United States

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/11/the-12-best-reasons/

[ATJr.]

The Bible is not written by God. But by men.

that is why one man read the bible and concluded that Jesus is not God, so he established his own religion....

others read it and concluded that Mary mother of Jesus should not be idolised and so started their own religion...

still one read the bible and concluded that tighting is no longer applicable and so has his own followings now, owns a tv station and continues to grow....

another read the bible and saw that he can have this "siksik, liglig at umaapaw na wealth" and so also started his own religion....

another saw it as Jesus is the name above anyother name......

where do this end or where is this leading to? not to hell i hope not.......

[barrister]

Why do some of our fellow Pinoys believe that America was founded as a Christian/Catholic country and that each and everyone of their citizens must bow to and be dictated to the pope?

They don't care about the Pope.  Don't confuse Christianity with Catholicism.  The US Christians, who are mostly Protestant, don't like the Catholics.

Why do some Pinoys believe that America was founded as a Christian nation?  Saan pa naman natin makukuha ang idea na yon, e di nanggaling na rin sa mga Amerikanong religious right.  That's nothing but revisionist propaganda from their ultra-religious.

Most of the American founding fathers were Deists, but they did not intend that America should be founded as a so-called "Christian Nation."

In fact, the opposite can been seen in their writings.  Some examples:

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government.  This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."  (Thomas Jefferson)

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation.  During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial.  What has been its fruits?  More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."  (James Madison)

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church,  nor by any Church that I know of.  My own mind is my own Church.  Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." (Thomas Paine)
                                .
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution.  The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another.  The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans.  They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England." (Bejamin Franklin)

[sharkey360]

They don't care about the Pope.  Don't confuse Christianity with Catholicism.  The US Christians, who are mostly Protestant, don't like the Catholics.

Why do some Pinoys believe that America was founded as a Christian nation?  Saan pa naman natin makukuha ang idea na yon, e di nanggaling na rin sa mga Amerikanong religious right.  That's nothing but revisionist propaganda from their ultra-religious.

Most of the American founding fathers were Deists, but they did not intend that America should be founded as a so-called "Christian Nation."

In fact, the opposite can been seen in their writings.  Some examples:

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government.  This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."  (Thomas Jefferson)

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation.  During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial.  What has been its fruits?  More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."  (James Madison)

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church,  nor by any Church that I know of.  My own mind is my own Church.  Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." (Thomas Paine)
                                .
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution.  The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another.  The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans.  They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England." (Bejamin Franklin)

I got to talk with some people randomly about what they think about the U.S. and the Philippines in regards to religion and society. Most of them believe that our nation and America are both Christian nations and that each nation's constitutions were written based on the Christian bible, even though the writings or translations were not obvious.

[barrister]

I often hear the proud Pinoy claim that we are "the only Catholic country in Asia."  What's so great about that?  Shows you the mindset of the average Pinoy.  

The US constitution did not intend to found a "Christian nation."  Thankfully, the Phil. constituion was patterned after the US constitution, that's why our constitution is not based on the idea of founding a Christian nation either.

However, we do have a religious reference in the preamble of our constitution, which mentions a Supreme Being.  The 1935 and 1973 constitutions say, "Divine Providence;" the 1987 constitution says, "Almighty God."

And we also have a provision in the 1987 constitution which is obviously based on the strict Catholic anti-abortion agenda --- "It shall equally protect the life of the mother and the life of the unborn from conception" (Sec. 12, Art. II), ensuring that neither law nor court order can ever allow any form of abortion.

As it is, may dalawang blatantly religious items pa rin na nakalusot.  Buti na lang based on the US constitution.  Kung hindi, baka naging tadtad ng Catholic agenda ang constitution natin.
  

[sharkey360]

I often hear the proud Pinoy claim that we are "the only Catholic country in Asia."  What's so great about that?  Shows you the mindset of the average Pinoy.  

The US constitution did not intend to found a "Christian nation."  Thankfully, the Phil. constituion was patterned after the US constitution, that's why our constitution is not based on the idea of founding a Christian nation either.

However, we do have a religious reference in the preamble of our constitution, which mentions a Supreme Being.  The 1935 and 1973 constitutions say, "Divine Providence;" the 1987 constitution says, "Almighty God."

And we also have a provision in the 1987 constitution which is obviously based on the strict Catholic anti-abortion agenda --- "It shall equally protect the life of the mother and the life of the unborn from conception" (Sec. 12, Art. II), ensuring that neither law nor court order can ever allow any form of abortion.

As it is, may dalawang blatantly religious items pa rin na nakalusot.  Buti na lang based on the US constitution.  Kung hindi, baka naging tadtad ng Catholic agenda ang constitution natin.
  

I do remember bishop Teodoro Bacani being one of the chosen people on the drafting of the 1987 constitution.

By the way, some members of a certain Christian worship group claimed that the so-called protection of the unborn was also written in the older versions of the constitution.

[Nelson de Leon]

Does an unborn baby have soul?

[Klaus Weasley]

Does an unborn baby have soul?

Well, that's the argument, isn't it? Some people believe that human life begins once the egg is fertilized. The problem with that argument is that a lot of times, a fertilized egg will often miscarry and is flushed down the woman's system like a heavier than usual period. That means every sexually active woman out there is a potential murderess.

[ATJr.]

^yes, when the sperm that entered the egg can not swim enough to manoeuvre to enter the uterus and implant in the womb....these ends up like cysts in the fallopian tubes..

[bass_nut]

Well, that's the argument, isn't it? Some people believe that human life begins once the egg is fertilized. The problem with that argument is that a lot of times, a fertilized egg will often miscarry and is flushed down the woman's system like a heavier than usual period. That means every sexually active woman out there is a potential murderess.

how often would a pregnant mother experience miscarriage/spontaneous abortion ?

was miscarriage a willful and intended case by a pregnant female such that she would be a potential murderer as you imply ?

when does Human Life begin ?

[Nelson de Leon]

Ako, i believe it starts with conception.

If a pregnant physically/sexually active woman is fully aware of the dangers posed on her pregnancy by her activity, and yet still pursues the activity despite doctor's advice, isn't that intentional or willful?

[bass_nut]

Ako, i believe it starts with conception.

same here, Master Nelson.

If a pregnant physically/sexually active woman is fully aware of the dangers posed on her pregnancy by her activity, and yet still pursues the activity despite doctor's advice, isn't that intentional or willful?

we've seen workaholic pregnant women do their daily chores up to a few hours before delivery. the intention to kill the baby was absent. my wife was on 24 hours duty in the hospital when she gave birth to our bunso.

there are few cases when doctors will advise full bed rest. the doctor should exert effort to explain to the patient as clear as possible the possible complication(s). most often, patients would comply.

[Klaus Weasley]

when does Human Life begin ?

If you ask me, human life begins when the fetus has developed brain activity.

[bass_nut]

If you ask me, human life begins when the fetus has developed brain activity.

and that would be when ?
and through what means would you know ?