Topic: The Religion Thread

[dpogs]

If you're born again

2 birth: physical and spiritual birth
1 death: physical death

If you're not born again

1 birth: physical birth
2 death: physical and spiritual death

No man can enter heaven unless that man is born of Spirit. Why he need to be born again because man is spiritually dead. If a man have born again and then lost his salvation them he died spiritually two times.

Adam passed his sin to all men, thus we are already dead spiritually since nagkamalay tayo. That is why we need to be born agaim spirotually.

[pTrader]

mangyayari pa ba yung quoted sa baba sa mga born of God

1 John 5:16-17 is talking about the unpardonable sin.  There are sins that are pardonable, called sins not unto death.  There are sins that are unpardonable, which are sins unto death.

Can unpardonable sin operate and sins unto death to those who are born of God?

Answer: No, read the proofs below.

1 John 5:4For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 john 5:18We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 John 3:6No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

[pTrader]

The case of the branches:

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:1-5)

If you believe in the name of Christ, you submit to His authority.  If you submit to His authority, you follow his commands.  If you follow His commands, you have salvation and you are a branch of the true vine. 

But being a branch of the true vine has a condition --- you must remain in the vine.  If you do not continue keeping His commands, you do not remain in the vine, you are cut off and thrown away into the fire.

You do not have salvation forever. Fail to keep His commands and you will lose that salvation.  You are cut off and thrown away.  In the end, you will be thrown into the fire.

You do not have salvation forever. Fail to keep His commands and you will lose that salvation.  You are cut off and thrown away.  In the end, you will be thrown into the fire.

1 john 3:9No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

Such failure can occur only for those who are not born of God, for God's seed abides in him who are born of God.

[pTrader]

That is why the bible says:

20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” (2 Peter 2:20-22)

They have escaped the corruption of the world.  They were washed.  The sacred command was passed on to them.  They were no longer entangled in the corruption of the world.  It means they were previously born again.   They were saved.  Yet they lost their salvation.

Born again ba sila o born of God ba sila?

Answer: No,

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’sb seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

[pTrader]

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.  (Heb. 6:4-6)

Note how these people are described:

- once enlightened
- tasted the heavenly gift
- shared in the Holy Spirit
- tasted the goodness of the word of God
- tasted the powers of the coming age

Of course these people were born again.  These are not newly born again persons, they are mature Christians who were even commanded to "move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ" (Heb. 6:1).

Yet the verses explain that if they fall away, it will be impossible for them to be brought back to repentance.

Why? Because they were once born again, and they once received salvation, but they fell away and sinned unto death.

Now that they have lost their salvation, repentance is now useless because they can no longer be forgiven. They can't be born again for the 2nd time.  Do not pray for them, said John.

Are those people born again or born of God?

The answer is :NO

18We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

Note how these people are described:

- once enlightened
- tasted the heavenly gift
- shared in the Holy Spirit
- tasted the goodness of the word of God
- tasted the powers of the coming age

All of the verbs use are past tense. There is no falling away for those who are born of God, for there are continuity in their life of not sinning.

Heb 6:7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Same  rain:

 
- once enlightened
- tasted the heavenly gift
- shared in the Holy Spirit
- tasted the goodness of the word of God
- tasted the powers of the coming age

 has been poured.

And yet there are land that produces thorns and thistles and these are those people.

[bumblebee]

Ikaw lang po at ikaw lang po ang nakaka-alam ng position mo sa harap ng Dios? Kung sino ka sa harap ng Dios at ano ang Dios sa harap mo?

Pero ang pag-asa ay nasa Mabuting Balita, manampalaya ka kay Jesus Christ.

Inde natin alam kung sino-sino yung hinahanap na tupa, maaring sinoman sa atin..


The point is, under your belief, one cannot hope to go to heaven

Kahit pa kaninong belief ang marininig mo please don't lose hope, unless sinabe mismo ng Dios na wala ka nang pag-asa.

Kina-usap ka na ba ng Dios o kina-usap mo na ba ang Dios tungkol sa pag-asa na iyan?

Marami ang nagsasabi kami lang ang ligtas, kayo papuntang  impiyerno kami puntang langit , kung wala ka sa church namin wala kang kaligtasan, pero ano ba talaga ang sinasabe sa iyo ng Dios mismo?

Mahalga po na malaman natin mismo ang sinasabe sa atin ng Dios sa atin sa buhay natin?

Sinabe Niya na makasalanan tayo at kailangan mag repent, hinge po tayo ng kapatawaran sa Dios at magsisi.

Sinabe niya na sumampalataya tao sa bugtong na Anak Niya na si JesuCrsito, manapalataya po tayo.


Mabuti pa si Santa Claus, bibigyan ka ng gift if you're nice.

Romans 3:10as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
 11no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
 12All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
 13“Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
 14“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
 15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
 16in their paths are ruin and misery,
 17and the way of peace they have not known.”
 18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Kung nalalaman ni Santa Claus yan, mayroon kayang gift na naibigay mula pa ng namimigay  ng gift si Santa Claus? Baka si Santa Claus wal ring gift para sa kanya.

Marami pong batuhan at posting dito concerning forum member's faith and belief, marami tayong matututunan pero ano ba ang mensahe ng Dios sa iyo sa ikaliligtas ng iyung kaluluwa?

What I was asking about is predestination. I think you misunderstood my question.

[barrister]

If you're born again

2 birth: physical and spiritual birth
1 death: physical death

If you're not born again

1 birth: physical birth
2 death: physical and spiritual death

No man can enter heaven unless that man is born of Spirit. Why he need to be born again because man is spiritually dead. If a man have born again and then lost his salvation them he died spiritually two times.

Adam passed his sin to all men, thus we are already dead spiritually since nagkamalay tayo. That is why we need to be born agaim spirotually.

You're saying spiritual death can only happen once?  That's not biblical. 

You're saying a man who has not yet been born again is spiritually dead; when he is born again, he becomes spiritually alive; after he becomes spiritually alive, he cannot spiritually die again?  That's not biblical.

and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree... thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree (Rom. 11:17, 24)

They were wild olive branches --- They were once spiritually dead.  The wild olive branches were cut from the wild olive tree, then grafted to the good olive tree --- Now, they are spiritually alive.

Once dead, now alive.  Once not part of the good tree, now part of the good tree. 

You're saying the grafted olive branch can no longer be cut off from the good tree? 

That's not correct.  The grafted branches can still be cut off from the good tree:

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.  (Rom. 11:20-22)

They received salvation when they were born again.  But salvation came with a condition --- if thou continue in His goodness.  The condition is that they must abide in Christ.

If they do not abide in Christ, what happens?  --- They will be cut off.

That's free will.  Not predestination, not "eternal security," not "Once Saved Always Saved."

[rusty]

Half Of Former Catholics Have Forsaken Religion Altogether
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/half-of-former-catholics-have-forsaken-religion-altogether_55e893f4e4b0b7a9633c4b1a

[dpogs]

A true born again (thus born of God/Spirit) is righteous before God since Jesus Christ abides in Him and the Holy Spirit is living in them.

the question is are those branches bearing no fruits a true born again or a wolf in sheepskin?
the question is are those branches bearing no fruits a true born again or just a washed pig?

Note: even in parable when Jesus is referring to born again people He always called them "sheep", once you're a sheep there is no way you can be a pig again. You may have the power of healing, you may have the wisdom of the word of God, you may have righteousness in you, but if you're still a pig, you're just a washed up pig and later on you will go to the same mud. But if you're a sheep, no matter what happens you will follow Jesus voice and follow His commandments.



4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:4-6


the word is "abide" - the question is how to abide in Jesus Christ? is it thru by works or by faith/grace alone?


6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Romans 11:6

How Jesus can abide in us? because without Jesus we cannot bear fruits. Branches never bear fruits, the vine is.

If Jesus doenst abide in us then we cant bear fruits and you will be cast in to the fire since Jesus is not abiding in you.

Once Jesus abide in us then we bear fruits, if we bear fruits, you will not be cast of. Obviously, those who didnt bear fruits will be cast of since Jesus is not abiding in them.

Those who abide in Jesus never sin.

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:1-9



The question is : those branches that was cast on fire, are they born of God? is Jesus abides in them?

They dont have the tree vine - Jesus, that is why they need to be cut off.

[barrister]

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:4-6


the word is "abide" - the question is how to abide in Jesus Christ? is it thru by works or by faith/grace alone?


6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Romans 11:6

How Jesus can abide in us? because without Jesus we cannot bear fruits. Branches never bear fruits, the vine is.

If Jesus doenst abide in us then we cant bear fruits and you will be cast in to the fire since Jesus is not abiding in you.

Once Jesus abide in us then we bear fruits, if we bear fruits, you will not be cast of. Obviously, those who didnt bear fruits will be cast of since Jesus is not abiding in them.

What does abiding in Christ mean?  Abiding means remaining.  Abiding in Christ means remaining in Christ's love.  We remain in Christ's love if we keep Christ's commandments:

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (John 15:10)

We don't abide in Christ's love by faith alone.  We abide by faith and keeping Christ's commandments.

Keeping Christ's commandments is work, not faith alone.  Therefore, it cannot be faith alone.  It is faith plus works.

First, you abide in Christ, then Christ abides in you.

Notice that the process has a proper order.  Christ doesn't abide in you first.  You abide in Christ first, then Christ abides in you:

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.  (John 15:4-6)

If the branch abides in the vine, the branch receives nourishment from the vine.  If the branch does not abide in the vine, it does not receive nourishment from the vine, is cut off and withers; they are gathered and burned in the fire. 

First, you keep Christ's commandments.  That's work. 

If you keep Christ's commandments, we say you abide in His love or remain in His love.  When you abide in Him, He abides in you.  First, the branch is grafted, then it receives nourishment.  That's the proper order, not the other way around.

If you do not abide or remain in Him, He will not remain in you.

Therefore, the choice is up to you.  It's your choice to remain or not to remain in Christ.  That's free will, not predestination.

[pTrader]

What I was asking about is predestination. I think you misunderstood my question.

eto yung kalalagayan ng tao:

Romans 3:10as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
 11no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
 12All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
 13“Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
 14“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
 15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
 16in their paths are ruin and misery,
 17and the way of peace they have not known.”
 18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

how can someone hope in God, if God is really rejected by all?
Sa ganyan kalalagayan ng tao, walang maliligtas.
Yung mga batang namatay bigyan yan mo ng pagkakataong mabuhay  still they will continue sinning.
Yung mga baliw, bigyan mo ng katinuan still they will continue sinning.
Yung mga na abort, bigyan na mo ng pagkakataong mabuhay ganun din pagkakasala pa rin.

Ginawa ng Dios na dumami ang tao:

26From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

Sa pag-asang hahanapin nila ang Dios:

 27God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

Pero uulitin ko:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
 11no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
 12All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
 13“Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
 14“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
 15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
 16in their paths are ruin and misery,
 17and the way of peace they have not known.”
 18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Sa ganitong kalalagayan wala ni isa mang tao ang maliligtas. Wala sa Dios ang pag-asa nila.

God predestine people, write their names in the Book of Life para mula sa nabuhay at nangabubuhay mapatawad, magkaroon  ng buhay na walng hanggan ganun din ng pagasa.

The point is, under your belief, one cannot hope to go to heaven if his name is not on the list, which apparently, written before the beginning of time.

Mabuti pa si Santa Claus, bibigyan ka ng gift if you're nice.

Question, saan ba nakasalig yung hope na sinasabi na yan.

Kung walang na isulat na pangalan, walng maliligtas ni isa mang tao.

“None is righteous, no, not one;
 11no one understands;
no one seeks for God.

[bumblebee]

Yun nga, kung predestined ka, kahit pumatay ka pa ng 1M, ligtas ka pa rin. At kahit magpakabuti ka, kung wala ka sa list, sorry ka na lang.

[pTrader]

Yun nga, kung predestined ka, kahit pumatay ka pa ng 1M, ligtas ka pa rin. At kahit magpakabuti ka, kung wala ka sa list, sorry ka na lang.

Saan nakasalig yung kabutihan na yun sir?

[bumblebee]

Kailangan mo pa ba ng pagsasaligan? Are you saying people didn't/can't know what is good or bad without the Bible?

[barrister]

Those who abide in Jesus never sin.

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:1-9



The question is : those branches that was cast on fire, are they born of God? is Jesus abides in them?

They dont have the tree vine - Jesus, that is why they need to be cut off.

First of all, you are quoting a mistranslation.  That's another example of KJV inaccuracy.

It is not correct to say that those who abide in Jesus "never sin."  In fact, 1 John itself emphasized that those who make that claim are lying:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

1 John 3:6& 9 do not mean to say that they do not sin.  Those verses simply mean that they do not continue to sin.
 
Therefore, they can still commit sin; however they will not habitually, continually sin.  Thus, the NIV renders the verses more accurately:

6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. ... 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.  (1 John 1:6&9)


=======================================
 
Let's discuss verse 6 first.

"Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not," says the KJV.  Correctly translated, it means those who remain in Him do not habitually or continually sin. 

We abide or remain in Christ by keeping his commandments.  See Reply # 1719 above.

Therefore, it means that those who keep Christ's commandments do not continue to sin.  They can still commit sin, but they will not be habitually sinning.

This is only logical.  You're following His commandments, that's why you're not habitually sinning. 

Your act of following Christ's commandments is an act of free choice.  It is not a predestined condition that makes it impossible for you to sin.  It is your free choice of following His commandments that results in your free choice of refusing to habitually sin.
 
=======================================


Now for verse 9.

The KJV says: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him."  Correctly translated, it means those who are "born of God" do not habitually or continually sin. 

What does it mean to be born of God?  It means abiding or remaining in God.  It is a free act of remaning, not a predestined condition of being born of God.

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God (1 John 5:1)

When you believe in Christ, you are born of God.  Do not reverse the order.  First you believe, then we say you are born of God.

What do we mean when we say we believe in Christ?  It means we keep the commands of Christ.

12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.  (1 John 5:12-13)

If you believe in the name of the Son, then you have the Son in you. 

And the Son is in you if you submit yourself to His authority by keeping His commands:

We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did. (1 John 2:3-6)

When you believe in Christ, you are born of God.  Believing in Christ means keeping the commands of Christ.  Therefore, being "born of God" simply means keeping the commands of Christ.

Now verse 9 becomes clear.

If you are born of God, it means you keep the commands of Christ.  If you keep the commands of Christ, you are abiding or remaining in the Son.  If you remain in the Son, the Son remains in you. 

Therefore, you must keep the commands of Christ so that you can be called "born of God."  The act of keeping the commands of Christ is work, not faith alone.  That's free will, not predestination.

If you are "born of God," meaning keeping the commands of Christ, you do not continually sin.  You can still commit sin, but you will not be habitually sinning.

That's logical, not magical.  You're following His commandments, that's why you're not habitually sinning. 

Your act of following Christ's commandments is an act of free choice.  It is not a predestined condition that makes it impossible for you to sin.  It is your free choice of following His commandments that results in your free choice of refusing to habitually sin.

Notice that verses 6 and 9  are perfectly consistent with each other.

[pTrader]

Kailangan mo pa ba ng pagsasaligan? Are you saying people didn't/can't know what is good or bad without the Bible?

People only care what is good for them that is all.
Do they care about the message  of God, His commandments? if they do, bakit maraming sinungaling? o wala ka bang naisip na mali sa  kapwa mo?

Wala pang Bible sa panahon ni Noah pero ano ginagawa ng tao noon, bakit nalipol sila ng baha?
Kinaawaan lang naman si Noah sa totoo lang kaya siya naligtas sa baha.


Kung ginagawa ng tao ang mainam sa harap ng Dios, kailangan pa bang manaog si Cristo? Kailangan pa ba yang predestination na yan?

Pare-pareho lang tayong pupunta sa dagat dagatang apoy wala ni isa mang maliligtas. 

[bumblebee]

People only care what is good for them that is all.
Do they care about the message  of God, His commandments? if they do, bakit maraming sinungaling? o wala ka bang naisip na mali sa  kapwa mo?

Wala namang nag-aargue na malinis ang lahat ng tao, that is beside the point. Don't tell me, malinis ka, you being in that list?

Wala pang Bible sa panahon ni Noah pero ano ginagawa ng tao noon, bakit nalipol sila ng baha?
Kinaawaan lang naman si Noah sa totoo lang kaya siya naligtas sa baha.

If we all descended from Noah, how come hindi sya kilala ng ibang kultura?

Kung ginagawa ng tao ang mainam sa harap ng Dios, kailangan pa bang manaog si Cristo? Kailangan pa ba yang predestination na yan?

Pare-pareho lang tayong pupunta sa dagat dagatang apoy wala ni isa mang maliligtas. 

Kung may predestination, hindi kailangang manaog ni Jesus. Kaya sya nanaog e para bigyan tayo ng hope for salvation.

[pTrader]

What does abiding in Christ mean?  Abiding means remaining.  Abiding in Christ means remaining in Christ's love.  We remain in Christ's love if we keep Christ's commandments:

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (John 15:10)

We don't abide in Christ's love by faith alone.  We abide by faith and keeping Christ's commandments.
Keeping Christ's commandments is work, not faith alone.  Therefore, it cannot be faith alone.  It is faith plus works.

First, you abide in Christ, then Christ abides in you.

Notice that the process has a proper order.  Christ doesn't abide in you first.  You abide in Christ first, then Christ abides in you:

Visiting John 15, we should undersatand this first as the proper order.

Bearing fruit need first that your are choosen by Christ.


John 15:16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17These things I command you, so that you will love one another.

Unless you are choosen you will not bear fruit.

Therefore, the choice is up to you.  It's your choice to remain or not to remain in Christ.  That's free will, not predestination.

It is not your willl that your are choosen, it is Christ's.

You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide,

You will only bear fruit, abide and keep His commandments if you are choosen and appointed.

[pTrader]

Wala namang nag-aargue na malinis ang lahat ng tao, that is beside the point. Don't tell me, malinis ka, you being in that list?

If we all descended from Noah, how come hindi sya kilala ng ibang kultura?

Kung may predestination, hindi kailangang manaog ni Jesus. Kaya sya nanaog e para bigyan tayo ng hope for salvation.

Mat 1:21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."

Yan sir  ang sagot. 

[bumblebee]

Sagot yan kung naniniwala ka sa free will. Pero kung predestined ka ng maliligtas, hindi na kailangan si Jesus.

[pTrader]

Sagot yan kung naniniwala ka sa free will. Pero kung predestined ka ng maliligtas, hindi na kailangan si Jesus.

eto yung need kaya kailangan si Jesus:

because he will save his people from their sins."

kailangan mabayaran yung kasalanan sa pamamagitan ng dugo ni Jesus.

[bumblebee]

Okay, tama ba intindi ko?

1. Merong listahan ng maliligtas.
2. Para maligtas yung mga nasa listahan, kailangan mamatay si muna Jesus.

Kung tama,

1. Doon sa mga nakibahagi sa pagpatay kay Jesus, nasa listahan ba?
2. Mayroon bang ibang kailangang gawin yung mga nasa listahan para maligtas?

[pTrader]

Okay, tama ba intindi ko?

1. Merong listahan ng maliligtas.
2. Para maligtas yung mga nasa listahan, kailangan mamatay si muna Jesus.

Kung tama,

1. Doon sa mga nakibahagi sa pagpatay kay Jesus, nasa listahan ba?
2. Mayroon bang ibang kailangang gawin yung mga nasa listahan para maligtas?

1. Merong listahan ng maliligtas.
Book of Life

2. Para maligtas yung mga nasa listahan, kailangan mamatay si muna Jesus.

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.


15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

and also

In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

1. Doon sa mga nakibahagi sa pagpatay kay Jesus, nasa listahan ba?

Depends on God's grace and mercy.

2. Mayroon bang ibang kailangang gawin yung mga nasa listahan para maligtas?

Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
 
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives lifed because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because ofe his Spirit who lives in you.
 
Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
 
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.And by him we cry, “Abba,g Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

After you are saved, the obligation is to live according to the Spirit.

And how can we follow ?

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God

[Nelson de Leon]

1. Merong listahan ng maliligtas.
Book of Life

2. Para maligtas yung mga nasa listahan, kailangan mamatay si muna Jesus.

Psalm 69:27-29
New International Version (NIV)

27 Charge them with crime upon crime;
    do not let them share in your salvation.
28 May they be blotted out of the book of life
    and not be listed with the righteous.

Pwede din bang maaslis ang pangalan sa book of life?

2. Mayroon bang ibang kailangang gawin yung mga nasa listahan para maligtas?

After you are saved, the obligation is to live according to the Spirit.

And how can we follow ?

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God

Bakit may obligation pa kung saved na? And sir what will happen if the saved person does not live according to the Spirit?

[dpogs]

It is impossible to please God without faith.

Salvation is by grace alone. Not grace + works.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Romans 11:6

Following God's commandment is not a requirement for salvation. It is byproduct of being a son of God or being saved. Kung sa branches and vines - it is the fruits. It said "abide" not "continue abiding". No one can follow God's commandment if they are not son of God. No one can completely follow God's commandment if they are still in their human form. Our physical body is corrupted and is weak. thus following God's commandment is not for salvation, but to overcome our flesh.


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10

In terms of salvation, God never look on how righteous we are or how we follow His commandments. God looked through our hearts if we have true faith - if we are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. The Sacrifice of Jesus is enough and complete for us to be saved. There is no need to work for our own salvation, Jesus paid it all. Washed all our sins - past, present and future sins. Sacrifice for sins ay natapos na at isang beses lang.

Being son of God ay hindi nawawala dahil lang sa kung ano ang nagawa natin dito sa lupa, that is the assurance God gave to us. as we are bond by blood to our physical father here on earth, we are bond by blood of Jesus to our Heavenly Father.

Kahit na magkasala ako against my physical father, im still his son, dugo pa rin niya ako. Lagi kong ginagawa sa tatay ko kapag nagkamali ako o hindi ko nasunod utos niya, titimplahan ko lang ng kape and then habang ibibigay ko ang kape sabi ko "Sorry Papa". Even I forget to make coffee and say sorry to my father, I am still his son. Kung ganito ang bond na nagagawa human blood, how much more  the bond na ibinigay ng blood of Jesus Christ.

The same with my God the Father, even I sin here on earth, I am still son of God, all i need to do is recognize that i am wrong and ask for forgiveness.

[dpogs]

Kung may predestination, hindi kailangang manaog ni Jesus. Kaya sya nanaog e para bigyan tayo ng hope for salvation.

God requires a blood sacrifice. The only way for us to be cleansed from sin is blood sacrifice. Even if you are elected if there is no blood sacrifice you will not be saved. That is why Jesus still need to die in the cross because He is the perfect lamb sacrifice for our sins.

This is how it works. We really dont know who is predestined. That is why we need to spread/share the Word of God and whosever believeth on Jesus will be saved.

[oweidah]

sarap cguro panoorin kau sa plaza miranda, batuhan ng bersikulo kapitulo atbp

ever heard of DAMIAN SOTTO radio personality. heard him ...puro mura hahaha
google nyo

[bumblebee]

Depends on God's grace and mercy.

Depends? Are they in the list already or would be added?

2. Mayroon bang ibang kailangang gawin yung mga nasa listahan para maligtas?


After you are saved, the obligation is to live according to the Spirit.

Do have a choice to oblige or mag-o-oblige ka automatically kasi saved ka na?

[bumblebee]

This is how it works. We really dont know who is predestined. That is why we need to spread/share the Word of God and whosever believeth on Jesus will be saved.

What? Meron bang maliligtas outside of the predestined list?

[dpogs]

What? Meron bang maliligtas outside of the predestined list?

save = elected/predestined