Topic: Do the speaker stands affect the SQ of bookshelves?

[resident_evil]

Will appreciate your inputs guys.

[Stagea]

Will appreciate your inputs guys.

Yes they do, in general. You wan't a stable platform that won't audibly resonate, aside from placing the speakers at the right height and angle. A heavy stand with a large and solid base is often a good sign.

Even when working with the same mass distribution, different materials react to vibration differently. Try striking a metal stand vs. a wooden stand. Aside from this, some stands hold the speaker rigidly, while others decouple the speaker with a lossy layer (this makes quite a variation in sound, imho). Even the shape of the stand may make a difference, as parts become large radiating surfaces (especially for mechanically lively structures).

Is it worth it to spend on a mega-buck stand? That depends on your preference and budget.

[Hammerheart]

Yes they do, in general. You wan't a stable platform that won't audibly resonate, aside from placing the speakers at the right height and angle. A heavy stand with a large and solid base is often a good sign.

Even when working with the same mass distribution, different materials react to vibration differently. Try striking a metal stand vs. a wooden stand. Aside from this, some stands hold the speaker rigidly, while others decouple the speaker with a lossy layer (this makes quite a variation in sound, imho). Even the shape of the stand may make a difference, as parts become large radiating surfaces (especially for mechanically lively structures).

+1 

[at_sunset_blvd]

A lot  Get a sturdy & solid stand as much as possible 

[JojoD818]

Think of it as an upside down pendulum with the base of the stand pivoted at the floor because of the earth's gravity and the bookshelf as your pendulum.

Newton's Law of Motion states that for every action, there is an equal opposite reaction. Just like the recoil of a gun, your speakers forward movement will always have an opposite reaction applied to it. Unfortunately, this opposite reaction will have an effect on your speakers performance.

A lot  Get a sturdy & solid stand as much as possible 

Hence, this is the right way to go.

[Gino]

I noticed that the vertical position of the speaker relative to the ground affects SQ and imaging. Put the speakers on temporary platforms. Add or reduce piles of books etc to get the best SQ and imaging for your listening position. Then have custom stands made.

JojoD, I like your inverted pendulum explanation. I wonder if the mass damper approaches of ancient pagodas and Tapei 101 will work with speakers. It will look interesting. Skinny legs with a massive ball below the speaker he he.

[Euphony101]

Yes  it does,as per my experience, its in the imaging aspect that a bs stand will help the most.

If you can position your bs on the right height relative to your listing area, then you can really hear a sense of sonic space.

Other claims that bass is also improved using a stand...can't comment on this.

[deuce]

I have a pair of all-metal, open-frame stands and a pair of single-post solid wooden stands. And yes, there is a difference in the speakers' SQ when shifted from one to the other.

[streetsmart]

What's the right height? Rule of thumb is that the tweeter should be at the height of your ears. The reason is that the tweeters are the most directive of the drivers (because the high frequencies act like beams while the low frequencies act as waves). In other words, there is more variation in tweeter response when you listen off-axis, as compared to the other drivers. This is also the rationale for toeing in the speakers so they point directly at you -- but that's another topic and that could be controversial.

[fattyacid]

Anything that has direct contact to the speakers can change their SQ.Place the speakers just on top of a table then the table becomes part of your speakers, SQ wise.That's why the most ideal stand for me is to use no stand at all.Kaso matagal pang maimbento ang floating speakers. That's why any stand should be sonically isolated from the speakers.Theres lots of technique used to isolate the speakers from the stand and most are DIY. A way to know if there really is good isolation is by touching the stands themselves. On a good setup, the vibrations should be close to nil.

[Euphony101]

Anything that has direct contact to the speakers can change their SQ.Place the speakers just on top of a table then the table becomes part of your speakers, SQ wise.

+1, this is where decoupling comes in or simply to isolate your speakers from the stand or where ever your placing your BS .

Some use spikes, for me I found using a sheet of 12 mm thick black close-cell foam (same material used in air con insulation tubing) a good decoupling material. It serves as a shock absorbed if you may.

[at_sunset_blvd]

pwedi din yung mga 3m rubber feet

[JojoD818]

I noticed that the vertical position of the speaker relative to the ground affects SQ and imaging. Put the speakers on temporary platforms. Add or reduce piles of books etc to get the best SQ and imaging for your listening position. Then have custom stands made.

JojoD, I like your inverted pendulum explanation. I wonder if the mass damper approaches of ancient pagodas and Tapei 101 will work with speakers. It will look interesting. Skinny legs with a massive ball below the speaker he he.

The speaker needs to be rigidly pivoted to a mass that would prevent it from moving the opposite direction when the driver moves, otherwise, the baffling will be useless if it moves along with the driver. 

I believe the Taipei 101's design architecture is to transfer the movement of the whole structure at the massive ball weight at the bottom unlike other designs that moves together with the direction of the earthquake rather than resist it and thus dampens the energy. Both are still considered engineering marvels that uses elementary Physics. Sometimes naman kasi the simplest solution is the best solution diba. 

[Hammerheart]

i'm using a soft cloth to isolate the speakers from the stands, so far ok naman. 

[Stagea]

Anything that has direct contact to the speakers can change their SQ.Place the speakers just on top of a table then the table becomes part of your speakers, SQ wise.That's why the most ideal stand for me is to use no stand at all.Kaso matagal pang maimbento ang floating speakers. That's why any stand should be sonically isolated from the speakers.Theres lots of technique used to isolate the speakers from the stand and most are DIY. A way to know if there really is good isolation is by touching the stands themselves. On a good setup, the vibrations should be close to nil.

There are also times when a rigid mount helps (such as in cases when the stand is stable, solid and heavy enough). The coupled stand effectively adds mass to the speaker, helping quell the cabinet's vibration and changing its resonance frequency.

[resident_evil]

Thanks guys. What do you recommend, wood or metal?

[audiojunkie]

Thanks guys. What do you recommend, wood or metal?

My personal choice....

wood..

[deuce]

Thanks guys. What do you recommend, wood or metal?

My present speakers like the metal stands better - the mids and highs are more
open and detailed, though there is less bass. But whether that's because the
stands are all metal, or because of the open frame design, I really can't
tell. I suspect a lot depends on the bookshelves themselves, and maybe even
the room's sonics?

Unfortunately trial and error is the only sure way to find out. And as with any other
audio gear in our country, it is virtually impossible to bring home a pair of stands
for testing unless you pay for it first.

[at_sunset_blvd]

Thanks guys. What do you recommend, wood or metal?

Both will suffice as long sturdy & heavy. Metal (get the heavy ones w/ a thick posts), Wood (get the ones you could sand-filled para bumigat din lalo) 

[Euphony101]

There are also times when a rigid mount helps (such as in cases when the stand is stable, solid and heavy enough). The coupled stand effectively adds mass to the speaker, helping quell the cabinet's vibration and changing its resonance frequency.

Do you mean sir that given that the stand is stable and solid and heavy like when its sand filled, It will be better for the SQ to "not" isolate the BS from the stand? That the stand itself would act as the vibration absorbed for the BS.Tama po ba pagkakaintindi ko?

As for the material I prefer wood over metal.I read somewhere that metal tends to have a "negative" effect on SQ, something to do with resonant frequency....But honestly I'm not sure if that is true.

[Stagea]

Do you mean sir that given that the stand is stable and solid and heavy like when its sand filled, It will be better for the SQ to "not" isolate the BS from the stand? That the stand itself would act as the vibration absorbed for the BS.Tama po ba pagkakaintindi ko?

Coupling it with the speaker enables it to reduce the speaker cabinet's vibration (this is why some people mount their speakers on the stands with screws/adhesive). Decoupling a nice stand diminishes its advantage in the majority of cases, because you're essentially letting the cabinet vibrate. As with anything, you may prefer one over the other (and some speakers/stands/rooms may be better with one or the other).

[blackie]

Joining thread, informative inputs being shared

[resident_evil]

oo nga. thanks guys.

[Euphony101]

Coupling it with the speaker enables it to reduce the speaker cabinet's vibration (this is why some people mount their speakers on the stands with screws/adhesive). Decoupling a nice stand diminishes its advantage in the majority of cases, because you're essentially letting the cabinet vibrate. As with anything, you may prefer one over the other (and some speakers/stands/rooms may be better with one or the other).

Okay, I think i'm starting to get it. when the speaker is directly attached (screw/adhesive) to a stable and heavy constructed stand, the mass of the stand will prevent(reduce) the speaker cabinet's vibration which is good for the SQ. Thanks Sir Stagea

[Stagea]

Okay, I think i'm starting to get it. when the speaker is directly attached (screw/adhesive) to a stable and heavy constructed stand, the mass of the stand will prevent(reduce) the speaker cabinet's vibration which is good for the SQ. Thanks Sir Stagea

Exactly. Even without any adhesive, the speaker will couple with the stand (though not as well) with just the help of gravity (and friction).

[Hammerheart]

master, i'm using a cloth in between the speakers and the stands to minimize vibration, would it be better replacing it with spikes?

[fattyacid]

Hmm, so Im seeing two schools of thoughts here. Decouple the speaker (use of foams or rubber) or do the exact opposite which is to couple them (directly attaching the speakers to a rigid stand). On which to apply will depend on a lot of factors.

[Euphony101]

I think a major factor in deciding whether to couple or decouple is the type of stand you have.

If the stand have a  significantly greater mass vs the speaker like in the case of sand filled stand its advantageous to couple the speaker to it.

but if on the other hand, the  stand though maybe  stable but does not have enough body or mass as in the case of solid wood post or metal tubing stand, the logical thing is to decouple the speaker.

But then again that's just me....

[Wildfire™]

Hmm, so Im seeing two schools of thoughts here. Decouple the speaker (use of foams or rubber) or do the exact opposite which is to couple them (directly attaching the speakers to a rigid stand). On which to apply will depend on a lot of factors.

for me all my speakers are coupled (to increase mid and bass) and subwoofer is decoupled (to tighten the bass)

[Hammerheart]

how about decoupling with spikes rather than rubber? i think it would lessen the vibration better.