Author Topic: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion  (Read 172365 times)

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Offline dpogs

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #30 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 05:25 PM »
To give you the benefit of a doubt, kahit ilang beses na naulit (kasi alam ko kailangan sa 'yo paulit-ulit din), In science, a theory is not a guess, not a hunch. It's a well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations. It ties together all the facts about something, providing an explanation that fits all the observations and can be used to make predictions. In science, theory is the ultimate goal, the explanation. It's as close to proven as anything in science can be.

To put it another way, the Pythagoream Theorem is a mathematical theory, yet no one will say it requires 'faith' to understand or to put to good use everyday, in practically every field of construction and engineering on the planet.

The theory of gravity is 'just a theory', too. I guess if you don't believe in it, you'll fall (or levitate) off the planet?

and evolution is a hunch... based on fossils... evolutionist predict that we came from monkey... "PREDICT" !!!! or ASSUMED???? nakahukay lang ng maliit na bungo ng mukhang tao... pagaaralan... then... based on given facts, data... we great scientist... conclude that this is the missing link.... whaaaaaaaaat... a branch of science with a "missing link"...
 that is not science... that is mere speculation...

sabi nga ng mga scientist kuno... they need proof to believe in God... yet... they cannot prove (only predict based on fossils etc) that we came from ape or one single cell....

whether they (evolutionist) like it or not... what they believe is simply by FAITH.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #31 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 05:28 PM »
Foxes were introduced in Australia by the Europeans. The ones in Europe are still reddish in colour but the ones in Australia are now brownish in colour, matching the environment.

That is not evolution... that is adaptation...

it doesnt matter how many times they change their colours... still... fox pa rin ang mga yan...
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Offline indie boi

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #32 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 05:36 PM »
The theory of gravity is 'just a theory', too. I guess if you don't believe in it, you'll fall (or levitate) off the planet?

This made me laugh. ;D

Baka kasi sabihin, "my faith in God keeps me from falling off the earth." ;D

Offline Tempter

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #33 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 05:48 PM »
That is not evolution... that is adaptation...


evolution is adaptation...  ;D
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

Offline dpogs

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #34 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 06:02 PM »
evolution is adaptation...  ;D

NOT... we adopt... but we dont evolve...
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Offline Tempter

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #35 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 06:15 PM »
NOT... we adopt... but we dont evolve...

evolution is about changing something for the betterment of the species...

so if you change something physically to adapt to your new environment, then that is evolution.
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

Offline barrister

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #36 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 06:23 PM »
Foxes were introduced in Australia by the Europeans. The ones in Europe are still reddish in colour but the ones in Australia are now brownish in colour, matching the environment.

They're all foxes.  That's not evolution.  


I agree, this can be considered as an evidence of evolution.

No, that's not evolution, that's adaptation.

Jumping to a conclusion that is clearly unsupported by the available evidence is not scientific.

Darwin did the same thing -- extrapolating far beyond the available evidence.  Darwin looked at finches’ beaks, and from small changes he extrapolated to state that evolution from one group to another had occurred.

Evolutionsists point out that "microevolution" has been upheld by tests in the laboratory.  

That's true.  Creationists and evolutionists see the same variations in the plant and animal kingdoms that evolutionists see.  Bacteria can become resistant to antibiotics, yet they still are nothing but bacteria.  Beaks of finches in the Galapagos Islands do change.  But to this day, they're still finches, reproducing other finches -- not ostriches, lemurs monkeys, gorillas, or apes.

Macroevolution -- changing from one kind of animal to another -- has been inferred, but never documented.


...They believe that this was a result of fox and wolf cross breeding.

I don't think they know what they're talking about.

Foxes and wolves cannot interbreed; or if they could, their offspring would be infertile.

Members of the dog genus Canis such as wolves and dogs cannot interbreed with members of the wider dog family of the Canidae such as the fox (Genus Vulpes).

The reason is in their genetics.   The wolf, dingo, dog, coyote, etc. all have 78 chromosomes arranged in 39 pairs.  This allows them to hybridize and produce fertile offspring.  Other members of the Canidae family, such as the red fox, which has 38 chromosomes, cannot hybridize with the wolf-like canids.  


Offline alistair

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #37 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 06:27 PM »
and evolution is a hunch...
Not a hunch, not at all.

Quote
based on fossils... evolutionist predict that we came from monkey... "PREDICT" !!!! or ASSUMED???? nakahukay lang ng maliit na bungo ng mukhang tao... pagaaralan... then... based on given facts, data... we great scientist... conclude that this is the missing link.... whaaaaaaaaat... a branch of science with a "missing link"...
 that is not science... that is mere speculation...
I'll take you seriously when you've read up as much as the generations of paleo-biologists, archaeologists and geologists before you. Otherwise, you're just an armchair critic who doesn't even know the difference between the common language meaning of 'theory' vs. scientific or mathematical Theory, as you repeatedly demonstrate.

Nobody's predicting anything with evolution. Nobody's assumed anything either that isn't apparent from the fossil record. The 'theory' is a theory only because it's incomplete, not because it's not self-consistent.

On the other hand—a 6,000 year old earth is highly inconsistent with existing observations and calculations in physics, geology and astronomy. Go figure.

Quote
yet... they cannot prove (only predict based on fossils etc) that we came from ape or one single cell....
Again, you demonstrate ignorance fueled by emotion. We do come from a single cell (a zygote). You probably mean "complex, higher-order lifeforms evolve from simpler forms" but like I said, your arguments are hard to take seriously when you can't even articulate them properly.

Quote
whether they (evolutionist) like it or not... what they believe is simply by FAITH.
Does Pythagorean theorem, or the theory of gravity, or (statistics ka, di ba?) Cochran's theorem require faith?
« Last Edit: Sep 14, 2011 at 08:13 PM by alistair »

Offline indie boi

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #38 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 07:08 PM »
Why is it that the common argument of people who do not believe in evolution is that no animal has spontaneously given birth to a completely new species? I think this is a very silly argument. Evolution is a process that takes millions of years. A dinosaur will not just suddenly give birth to a bird. Small adaptations that happen for millions of years in one species will eventually result in a completely new one. An analogy I'd like to us is stop motion animation. It takes hundreds of individual "shots" put together and run at a particular speed to give us the illusion of motion. But if you look at the individual shots you won't notice the movements in the frames even if you look at the frame before or after the one you're studying.

Others will argue that there isn't any proof of evolution in the fossil record (a species that evolves into a completely new one). It's because the fossil record is not totally complete. It takes a combination of environmental factors and luck to produce a fossil. Fossils were not placed by God for his amusement and our bewilderment.


Offline dorian_gray

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #39 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 07:15 PM »
I did not expect that I will be doing this. Here are the definitions of the contested words (accdg to Merriam Webster):

evolution- a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations

adaptation- modification of an organism or its parts that makes it more fit for existence under the conditions of its environment

As you can see, adaptation is part of evolution.

Offline barrister

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #40 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 07:19 PM »
Yes, adaptation is part of microevolution.  Microevolution is a fact.  It is observable.  It is non-controversial.

But microevolution is not the issue here.  It's macroevolution.

Evidence of microevolution and adaptation is not evidence of macroevolution.

Show us evidence of macroevolution.   


Offline dorian_gray

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #41 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 07:31 PM »
Yes, adaptation is part of microevolution.  Microevolution is a fact.  It is observable.  It is non-controversial.

But microevolution is not the issue here.  It's macroevolution.

Evidence of microevolution and adaptation is not evidence of macroevolution.

Show us evidence of macroevolution.   



sige mag-usap uli tayo after 1000 years

Offline dpogs

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #42 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 07:35 PM »
Why is it that the common argument of people who do not believe in evolution is that no animal has spontaneously given birth to a completely new species? I think this is a very silly argument. Evolution is a process that takes millions of years. A dinosaur will not just suddenly give birth to a bird. Small adaptations that happen for millions of years in one species will eventually result in a completely new one. An analogy I'd like to us is stop motion animation. It takes hundreds of individual "shots" put together and run at a particular speed to give us the illusion of motion. But if you look at the individual shots you won't notice the movements in the frames even if you look at the frame before or after the one you're studying.

Others will argue that there isn't any proof of evolution in the fossil record (a species that evolves into a completely new one). It's because the fossil record is not totally complete. It takes a combination of environmental factors and luck to produce a fossil. Fossils were not placed by God for his amusement and our bewilderment.

please provide scientific facts for "Small adaptations that happen for millions of years in one species will eventually result in a completely new one"

if we believe in something that cannot be prove scientifically then it is by FAITH.
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Offline bumblebee

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #43 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 07:41 PM »
please provide scientific facts for "Small adaptations that happen for millions of years in one species will eventually result in a completely new one"

if we believe in something that cannot be prove scientifically then it is by FAITH.

Pwede na ba sayo to?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feathered_dinosaur

Offline dorian_gray

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #44 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 07:42 PM »
I think somebody has watched "Contact" far too many times.

It is like the joke (nga ba?) that many Filipinos think that "Exorcist" is a documentary.

Offline alistair

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #45 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 08:14 PM »
if we believe in something that cannot be prove scientifically then it is by FAITH.
If we refuse to believe in something that is scientifically sound because of our faith, then what do you call that?

Offline dpogs

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #46 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 08:33 PM »
If we refuse to believe in something that is scientifically sound because of our faith, then what do you call that?

evolution !!! eerrrr! sound scientifically... but it is not scientific...


if scientist can prove scientifically that evolution exists... then I will consider this kind of idea  ;)

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Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #47 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 08:34 PM »
Show us evidence of macroevolution.   

Show me evidence of the existence of a Supreme Being.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #48 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 08:54 PM »
Show me evidence of the existence of a Supreme Being.

That is why we called it "FAITH"... with or without evidence/proof... we believe in creation.

« Last Edit: Sep 14, 2011 at 08:55 PM by dpogs »
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Offline alistair

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #49 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 08:56 PM »
That is why we called it "FAITH"... with or without evidence/proof... we believe in Supreme Being.
And that's why it's useless to argue with you.

On evolution, you demand rigorous scientific explanation (never mind that most rational explanations just go over your head or you refuse to listen to them outright, see ethics).

On the Bible, you expect everyone else to just take your word for it.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #50 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 09:08 PM »
And that's why it's useless to argue with you.

On evolution, you demand rigorous scientific explanation (never mind that most rational explanations just go over your head or you refuse to listen to them outright, see ethics).

On the Bible, you expect everyone else to just take your word for it.

since evolution cannot be explained scientifically (hindi porket ginamitan ng mga aparatus na pangscience scientific na)... can we now considered evolution as some sort of religion....
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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #51 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 09:24 PM »
If radiometric dating methods are unable to produce the correct date in cases where the actual date of eruption is known, why should we believe that these same methods can produce accurate dates when the date of eruption is unknown?
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Offline jcdvo

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #52 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 09:26 PM »
Would you rather have FAITH or TRUTH?

I wish someday when the origin of humanity will finally be settled once for all.  The flaw in just having "FAITH" is that anybody can have their own belief and consider it as true.  Christianity alone doesn't have the monopoly on origins of mankind.  The origins of mankind would be decided by the majority and not by facts.

Creationism or evolution, it doesn't matter as long as we finally seek the truth in a scientific manner. We owe this ourselves >:(

Offline jcdvo

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #53 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 09:36 PM »
since evolution cannot be explained scientifically (hindi porket ginamitan ng mga aparatus na pangscience scientific na)... can we now considered evolution as some sort of religion....

At least when it comes to science, evolution can be refuted.  The real question is, can your "FAITH" in Creationism be swayed?
« Last Edit: Sep 14, 2011 at 09:39 PM by jcdvo »

Offline dpogs

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #54 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 09:40 PM »
Would you rather have FAITH or TRUTH?

I wish someday when the origin of humanity will finally be settled once for all.  The flaw in just having "FAITH" is that anybody can have their own belief and consider it as true.  Christianity alone doesn't have the monopoly on origins of mankind.  The origins of mankind would be decided by the majority and not by facts.

Creationism or evolution, it doesn't matter as long as we finally seek the truth in a scientific manner. We owe this ourselves >:(

scientific manner... you think evolution or big bang theory ... follow the steps of scientific methodology???

out from nowhere there was an explosion from golf size matter... an explosion that instead of creating chaos and disorder... created order and perfection (dna, human life, ecosystem, etc)... can we call this a scietific manner???


if origin of mankind will be decided by the majority alone... evolution is the winner... why... because nowadays... creation ay hindi na itinuturo sa mga universities...

if origin of mankind will be decided by facts and truth... no one will believe in evolution...
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Offline Verbl Kint

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #55 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 10:12 PM »
scientific manner... you think evolution or big bang theory ... follow the steps of scientific methodology???

out from nowhere there was an explosion from golf size matter... an explosion that instead of creating chaos and disorder... created order and perfection (dna, human life, ecosystem, etc)... can we call this a scietific manner???

You obviously have no idea what the big bang theory is and how it was formulated.  I seriously suggest you read up on it.  There is a lot of evidence (observable even) that the big bang did happen.

And by the way, it's called the scientific method.


if origin of mankind will be decided by the majority alone... evolution is the winner... why... because nowadays... creation ay hindi na itinuturo sa mga universities...

if origin of mankind will be decided by facts and truth... no one will believe in evolution...

There are absolutely no "facts" that support spontaneous creation.  

And the reason why universities do not teach creationism is because it cannot be rationally proven without bringing in religion into the picture.  

« Last Edit: Sep 14, 2011 at 10:13 PM by Verbl Kint »

Offline alistair

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #56 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 10:13 PM »
out from nowhere there was an explosion from golf size matter... an explosion that instead of creating chaos and disorder... created order and perfection (dna, human life, ecosystem, etc)... can we call this a scietific manner???
Yes, because Science started with other (flawed) assumptions, then based on observation and experimentation came up with the current theories. For example—for the longest time Science thought the Earth was flat, and that the Sun revolved around the Earth. Now Science knows better. That's the Scientific Method.

On the other hand—you start with a belief (Earth is young, man & animals magically appeared of out nowhere) and start looking for 'evidence' to back it up.

Offline jcdvo

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #57 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 10:42 PM »
scientific manner... you think evolution or big bang theory ... follow the steps of scientific methodology???

out from nowhere there was an explosion from golf size matter... an explosion that instead of creating chaos and disorder... created order and perfection (dna, human life, ecosystem, etc)... can we call this a scietific manner???


if origin of mankind will be decided by the majority alone... evolution is the winner... why... because nowadays... creation ay hindi na itinuturo sa mga universities...

if origin of mankind will be decided by facts and truth... no one will believe in evolution...


Truth is stranger than fiction.... ::) It doesn't matter how absurd it is

 since you said, the origin of mankind is already settled by facts and truth, can you refer to me please where can I learn about these "facts and truth".  I was assuming you said the creationism is proved by "FAITH" alone

Offline RU9

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #58 on: Sep 14, 2011 at 11:41 PM »
if origin of mankind will be decided by the majority alone... evolution is the winner... why... because nowadays... creation ay hindi na itinuturo sa mga universities...

if origin of mankind will be decided by facts and truth... no one will believe in evolution...

evolution is being explained by using physical data while creation takes a very big leap from physical to a spiritual realm exposition.

There no facts and truth in the spiritual domain. Faith is believing without reason.

Offline barrister

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Re: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion
« Reply #59 on: Sep 15, 2011 at 09:15 AM »
Pwede na ba sayo to?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feathered_dinosaur


Wala yan sa lolo ko:




A chicken-sized dinosaur fossil found in China
may have overturned a long-held theory about
the origin of birds.


For 150 years, a species called Archaeopteryx has been regarded as the first true bird, representing a major evolutionary step away from dinosaurs.

But the new fossil suggests this creature was just another feathery dinosaur and not the significant link that palaeontologists had believed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14307985



Relatives of Living Ducks and Chickens Existed
Alongside Dinosaurs More Than 65 Million Years Ago


Research by paleontologist Dr. Julia A. Clarke, an assistant professor in the marine, earth and atmospheric sciences department at NC State, and colleagues provides unprecedented fossil proof that some close cousins to living bird species coexisted with dinosaurs more than 65 million years ago.

http://www.ncsu.edu/news/press_releases/05_01/015.htm


« Last Edit: Sep 15, 2011 at 09:20 AM by barrister »