Author Topic: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...  (Read 3009 times)

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Offline audiojunkie

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Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« on: Nov 12, 2011 at 03:57 AM »

Early this evening, I was talking to an acquaintance and he commented that a speaker cable made for HT application will not perform well in Audio System... ::)  I spent considerable amount of my free time reading about this hobby, for almost a decade now, but never encounter any topic or article to support his claim....  ::) I know, there are Audiophile Grade Speaker Cables in the market but cost $,$$$$ to own them and AFAIK, cables should relative to total system cost...  ;D 

Please post your opinions/views on this statement if there is/are really rules to follow...  ???
and if this true, so then we need to classify also the IC either for HT or Audio use only ....  ;D   
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Offline ninjababez®

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #1 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 05:12 AM »
parang di tamang syensa yan bro  ;D ;D
kasi speaker din naman ang pupuntahan from amp diba?  ;D ;D
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Offline ricky

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #2 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 05:15 AM »
Baka naman bro Hindi nya Lang na explain maige :D kasi normally yung for ht kahit ano speaker wires lang pwede na::) while for audio dapat yung special ;D

Offline ninjababez®

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #3 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 05:19 AM »
Baka naman bro Hindi nya Lang na explain maige :D kasi normally yung for ht kahit ano speaker wires lang pwede na::) while for audio dapat yung special ;D
bro ricky aga mo gising ha!  nakakawala ba ng antok ang thread  ;D ;D
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Offline audiojunkie

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #4 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 05:29 AM »
mga bros, ang this guy was refering to a known brand..

(decided to removed the brand name to have general opinion)

 ;D
« Last Edit: Nov 12, 2011 at 06:36 AM by audiojunkie »
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Offline Stagea

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #5 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 07:14 AM »
I'd stick with a cable that works with a particular system, whether that speaker cable is being marketed for use with HT systems or HiFi systems (even domestic appliance power cords can work well for this duty, as long as it synergizes with the rest of the gear).
« Last Edit: Nov 12, 2011 at 07:16 AM by Stagea »

Offline lncc63

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #6 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 07:18 AM »
Thanks for the link Bro, very educational though readers should keep in mind that even the most honest seller will have a hard time talking about their products' poor points.

I agree now that interconnects do affect a system's characteristics.  I heard it myself at avshop 2 weeks ago, which until then was inconsequential as far as I was concerned.  Now since the interconnect does have a detectable effect, the question for me should be:  Is there is a clear difference between movie material and audio-only material?  

I suppose for those with particular tastes there would be a difference frequently enough that one would be able to select interconnects for audio and HT.   I myself currently have a wide preference so I imagine it would be difficult.  I'd probably have to have more than just 2 to choose from but I doubt if I'd have the patience switch them in and out or much less go through the process of making the selections.

It's amazing how much science and engineering companies put into "wires".  
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Offline pert

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #7 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 08:45 AM »

It's amazing how much science and engineering companies put into "wires".  

Not only"science and engineering?" but most important factor marketing ;)

Offline audiojunkie

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #8 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 01:21 PM »
parang di tamang syensa yan bro  ;D ;D
kasi speaker din naman ang pupuntahan from amp diba?  ;D ;D

Hanggang ngayon nga 'di ko maimagine how he made a remark on a certain brand not even trying on his system.  ::)  ;D

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Offline audiojunkie

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #9 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 01:41 PM »
Thanks for the link Bro, very educational though readers should keep in mind that even the most honest seller will have a hard time talking about their products' poor points.

I agree now that interconnects do affect a system's characteristics.  I heard it myself at avshop 2 weeks ago, which until then was inconsequential as far as I was concerned.  Now since the interconnect does have a detectable effect, the question for me should be:  Is there is a clear difference between movie material and audio-only material?
 
I suppose for those with particular tastes there would be a difference frequently enough that one would be able to select interconnects for audio and HT.   I myself currently have a wide preference so I imagine it would be difficult.  I'd probably have to have more than just 2 to choose from but I doubt if I'd have the patience switch them in and out or much less go through the process of making the selections.
It's amazing how much science and engineering companies put into "wires". 

Some manufacturers will call it product's limitations.

I gree, every wire/cable reacts differently on every system. Last month a friend & I tested a huge speaker in my place. We used 3 different spk. cables (Kimber,Chord,XLO) each has it's sonic character. For HT & Audio difference, we need an Audio Scientist (Engineer) to prove this.  ;D


I believe it's only 20% Science/Engineering and 80% Marketing... I hope manufacturers will disprove this view...  ::)
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Offline lncc63

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #10 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 02:04 PM »
On the other hand Bro, a company could have a great product with great technology and cutting edge science but without a marketing effort to match which would then end up never benefiting anyone because know one would know about it and the new real value it might offer.

Marketing hype is usually not all crap.  There is truth behind it.  It is just sugarcoated with weak points glazed over.   For me it is more like 70% science and engineering and 30% marketing, though I'll admit I've encountered 20/80 products too, even 0/100.
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Offline audiojunkie

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #11 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 02:24 PM »
Yes, I agree with you that no any company will survive in the competition without marketing strategy..  ;D but in A/V world there are products full of "snake oil" hype that made some uninformed consumers idolized a certain brand... ;D

Forgot to mention, that same guy have listened to the audio system using same cable he refered as non-audiophile brand but he could not believe the quality of music he's listening to... :D
« Last Edit: Nov 12, 2011 at 04:35 PM by audiojunkie »
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Offline lncc63

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #12 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 03:23 PM »
Forgot to mention, that same guy have listened to the audio system using same cable he refered as non-audiphile brand but he could not believe the quality of music he's listening to... :D

The same thing happened to me though I was told "listen to this PX,XXX cables ... ok listen to this P50/m cable ...".  For the equipment we were using, the P50/m cable sounded better to me.  Just goes to show that expensive does not necessarily mean the best.
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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #13 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 04:12 PM »
IMHO I really dont put much emphasis on the HT speaker cables, but I do use a better brand for a 2 channel stereo set-up ;D

"Cables Should Be Relative To Total System Cost" , I really agree w/ this manner ;)
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Offline Stagea

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #14 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 04:20 PM »
The same thing happened to me though I was told "listen to this PX,XXX cables ... ok listen to this P50/m cable ...".  For the equipment we were using, the P50/m cable sounded better to me.  Just goes to show that expensive does not necessarily mean the best.

Imho, it's often not really about one cable being better than the other in terms of electrical performance. Some expensive and supposedly high end cables may actually be electrically inferior.

In most cases, it's more about how the cables tie the components together --- how their coloration complements the rest of the system and the room (if they can attenuate frequencies that are unbearably boosted or resonant in a particular setup, for example).

Just my tuppence worth.
« Last Edit: Nov 12, 2011 at 05:56 PM by Stagea »

Offline lncc63

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #15 on: Nov 12, 2011 at 05:46 PM »
Well put Bro.  I should qualify my last sentence, "... expensive does not necessarily mean the best FOR ONE'S PARTICULAR SETUP - EARS INCLUDED :)".
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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #16 on: Nov 13, 2011 at 12:41 AM »
Has anyone tested using an RTA or a similar measuring device if cables really change the sound?
« Last Edit: Nov 13, 2011 at 12:42 AM by Billabong »

Offline ricky

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #17 on: Nov 13, 2011 at 03:55 AM »
bro ricky aga mo gising ha!  nakakawala ba ng antok ang thread  ;D ;D

Pagtulog pa Lang like now ;D

Offline Stagea

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #18 on: Nov 13, 2011 at 04:40 AM »
Has anyone tested using an RTA or a similar measuring device if cables really change the sound?

I don't know of such a test, as measurement error may be big enough to mask differences (unless we're talking long cable lengths) in uncontrolled environments (such as our homes).

Here's a graph of computed response based on the electrical performance of 6 different speaker cables (supposedly 14 awg or larger in cross section) with a 10 ft length, driven by the perfect amp (zero output impedance) and connected to a stable 4 ohm load:

The computation shows that some cables can lope off as much as half a db on the limits of our audible range, in this very typical cable length (or cut about a quarter of a dB relative to the lower octaves) due to cable inductance. This may be audible to some, and not to others. Perhaps you can test with an EQ if a change that small above 10 kHz is noticeable -- many tone control knobs nowadays center close to 20 kHz (and run a broad Q), so this should be quite easy to simulate.

With a 50 ft length (for those with big HTs), the same cable can lope off over 4 dB in the uppermost frequencies (or cut 3 dB relative to the lower freqs) and introduce 4 ms of delay due to phase shift.

What may be surprising to some is that this happened to a supposedly high tech audiophile cable, which the manufacturer claims to be a "truly wonderful performer" in the mids and highs. It probably sounds warmer and smoother subjectively (and a lot of people are after this sound), because the highs are curtailed.

Capacitive cables are also known to curtail the highs in a high impedance application (e.g. analogue interconnects). In this case, high capacitance cables can cut as much as half a dB in the top octave with something as short as 10 ft or so, and cause considerable phase shift. Longer lengths would have a more pronounced effect. As with the speaker cables, the result is of course largely dependent on the electrical properties of the components attached.

What's in common with both is that they largely affect high frequency reproduction only (as long as a reasonable girth is maintained). Generally, a lower capacitance IC cable will alter the resulting sound less, while a lower impedance speaker cable will have the same benefit -- both should result in a relatively bright and airy sound. The opposite direction will yield a warmer (and marginally more distorted) sound, which may work in taming excessive HF output (or suiting the listener's preference).

Of course there's also talk about the speaker cable's capacitance causing some amps (probably poorer-designed ones) to oscillate a bit. Ringing from an IC's signal reflections is supposedly also possible, depending on the source component's output circuit. Then there's Skin Effect (which many think is absurd at audio frequencies), Maxwell Effect, etc. These are quite a bit harder to substantiate.

« Last Edit: Nov 13, 2011 at 04:54 AM by Stagea »

Offline audiojunkie

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #19 on: Nov 13, 2011 at 04:46 AM »

"^" Thanks ... Great Info Sir!...   8)
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Offline Stagea

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #20 on: Nov 13, 2011 at 06:15 AM »
"^" Thanks ... Great Info Sir!...   8)

You're welcome, sir.

I don't believe in building a system around cables, but I think that they can be useful as remedies to get components (including the room) to work better together as a system (especially with systems with little or no EQing applied).

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Re: Speaker Cable for Audio or HT Use Only...
« Reply #21 on: Nov 25, 2011 at 11:13 AM »
Guys,

Have you heard of the Impact Acoustics SonicWave Speaker Cable?
Audioholics has a good review for it http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/cables/impact-acoustics-sonicwave-speaker-cables

May nakaaudition na ba or nagmamay-ari nito?  ;D



Thanks  :)