Author Topic: Surplus amps  (Read 991138 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline wanderlust

  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,269
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #570 on: May 24, 2004 at 12:47 PM »
sir,

i dont want to be the bad egg >:D, but i have heard some personal comments regarding the marantz pm-80. and it isn't inspiring.

actually the pm80 was part of my list, but now it is no more. his impression of it was that it was quite bright to the point that "nakakapagod makinig". i cant go to details here for one reason or another, but at that time, we were listening to another brand of amp (d surplus) and he compared the sound of it, as the sound of his marantz, and if his comparison holds true, i wont left a finger at it. in fact the amp that we were listening to at that time is now and difinitely, history. :'(

just sharing bro, as always said, let your ears be your guide, as what maybe good for juan might not be good for pedro. O0

Offline D0Hbert

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 190
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #571 on: May 24, 2004 at 01:22 PM »
yan na BG_AVI, napasok mo na :) pinaguusapan lang namin ni pareng BG nung sunday yan. Subukan naman natin puro surplus amps, tapos tabi tayo ng isang bagong SS na amp, dalhin ko sansui and HK3550 ko, testingin natin yung HK as against the oldies. Benj, dalhin mo yung Denon and Yammy mo. Meron pa akong isang HK dito na luma, mga early 1990s pa sya, bili sa angeles. di ko na nagagamit, baka pwede ko ring dalhin.

Offline wanderlust

  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,269
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #572 on: May 24, 2004 at 01:30 PM »
sama ko din luxman ko..... and syempre sasama din ako ha, mga pare koy...

Offline akyatbundok

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,641
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #573 on: May 24, 2004 at 01:32 PM »
Roger

can u list down all Amp which is in high end model para magka idea lang kami ;D ;D tetemp akong bilhin isa sa mga itoONKYO integra -917 at sa MARANTZ PM_74 and PM-80 mukhang yumyum din e ano ba ang marerecomend mo d2 sa tatlo.

pre ito ang reference ko ng japanese integrated amps:

list #1
list #2
list #3

patience lang pre, sooner or later may maliligaw din... pag ginamit mo agad yung 4k/5k mo wala ka na pambili kung may lumabas na high-end.

yung onkyo 917 mas bago pero parehas lang sa specs ng mas luma na 817 at 819... kung marantz hintayin mo na lang yung PM-94 iba yata kasi ang design nung lower models eh... narinig ko na rin yung PM-80, parang ok naman hindi lang sya standout, compare namin sa hafler DH-220 mas maganda ang hafler...

naka-B4 ka pre bagay dyan sansui alpha907 pero unahan kita hehehe  ;D
« Last Edit: May 24, 2004 at 01:40 PM by akyatbundok »

Offline sandawa

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 942
  • Remember Hegel's dialectics!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #574 on: May 24, 2004 at 04:01 PM »
Baka may maliligaw sa inyo dito sa Davao. A friend who deals on Jap surplus is selling a Nakamichi TA4 high-current made by Threshold (Stasis topology) @ 7K and an Onkyo Integra P306XR/M306XR combo @ 9K. Makinis pa, walang galos sa harap. Gusto ko nang bilhin pareho, kaya lang lima na ang amps ko. Ayoko nang ma-gulpi ni kumander!
thesis - antithesis - synthesis

Offline Superman

  • Trade Count: (+138)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,157
  • Master Showman Presents...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 366
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #575 on: May 24, 2004 at 04:06 PM »
uy...ok to ah...diyan p naman ako next weekend...yahoo! 8)
Fyne|EAR|Hana|Technics|SAEC|Wiim|Western Electric|Audiolab|Acrolink|Oyaide|Oppo|Tellurium

Offline sandawa

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 942
  • Remember Hegel's dialectics!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #576 on: May 24, 2004 at 04:36 PM »
Onkyo Integra P306XR/M306XR combo @ 9K.

Correction: The Onkyo package comprises P306SR and M506SR with wooden panel sidings.
thesis - antithesis - synthesis

Offline av_phile1

  • Trade Count: (+22)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,597
  • Cheers from a movie and music lover
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #577 on: May 24, 2004 at 04:58 PM »
Baka may maliligaw sa inyo dito sa Davao. A friend who deals on Jap surplus is selling a Nakamichi TA4 high-current made by Threshold (Stasis topology) @ 7K and an Onkyo Integra P306XR/M306XR combo @ 9K. Makinis pa, walang galos sa harap. Gusto ko nang bilhin pareho, kaya lang lima na ang amps ko. Ayoko nang ma-gulpi ni kumander!

Wow!!!, bakit wala niyan sa pier?  That Onkyo set is a steal if you asked me. 

Offline sandawa

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 942
  • Remember Hegel's dialectics!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #578 on: May 24, 2004 at 06:14 PM »
Wow!!!, bakit wala niyan sa pier?  That Onkyo set is a steal if you asked me. 

I'm not an Onkyo fan, although I have owned some Onkyo amps before - and CD players 901XD and 501XD now - but I believe you. I just checked Audiogon's guiding price for used equipment available in the US and that combo currently sells at an average of $1,000 based on eBay and private hifi auction records. In Japan, that same package, used but in good condition, goes for Y50,000 in an Onkyo auction site. It's a pity, Selworld (Japan used audio price directory) is no longer accessible. It gives a more accurate pricing for surplus audio equipment since its records for each brand model extend to two years of auction deals. It's quite surprising, as per my monitoring since 2002, but our surplus dealers here sell those items at lower than average Japan auction prices.
thesis - antithesis - synthesis

Offline av_phile1

  • Trade Count: (+22)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,597
  • Cheers from a movie and music lover
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #579 on: May 24, 2004 at 06:41 PM »
I don't know about those Japanese auction houses, but my informat tells me that those "surplus" appliances are actually hauled off en masse from junkyards in Tokyo and elsewhere.  The haulers are actaully PAID to take them out.  So the only capital here are the freight charges and maybe some customs duties, if at all.  And luckily for us, those entrepreneurs know very little, if nothing, of the merchanidise they are disposing.  Those that do are the local bidders who make some tidy profits refurshing them and selling them at the Port Area Shopping Mall and elsewhere.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2004 at 06:43 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline sandawa

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 942
  • Remember Hegel's dialectics!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #580 on: May 24, 2004 at 07:41 PM »
I don't know about those Japanese auction houses, but my informat tells me that those "surplus" appliances are actually hauled off en masse from junkyards in Tokyo and elsewhere.  The haulers are actaully PAID to take them out.  So the only capital here are the freight charges and maybe some customs duties, if at all.  And luckily for us, those entrepreneurs know very little, if nothing, of the merchanidise they are disposing.  Those that do are the local bidders who make some tidy profits refurshing them and selling them at the Port Area Shopping Mall and elsewhere.

That explains the huge junkyards run by Japanese-Filipino firms here in Davao which are right next to the warehouses where surplus imports are unloaded. Davao, as history books noted, was known as Little Tokyo before the war and until now, we have a fairly big Japanese community here. So, we're being used as dumping ground. But then, how come many of these equipment arrive in good condition?

A-okay TVs, some widescreen, filled the warehouses of Japanese importers here: 28-inch at P2.8K and 32-inch at P6K. Normal screen 25-inch TV is retailed at P2k. A guy I know who owns a shop specializing in surplus items said he'd just deposit money in these warehouses, say P50K, and he'll get a call when a container van comes in. He'd get priority in choosing the best amps he'd see and his gauge is power consumption at the back of the unit. I was told these importers used to quote a maximum of P5 per watt, depending on the amp's external condition, but since they found a big market there in Manila, it has now gone up to P10 per watt.

Okay lang, mura pa rin.
thesis - antithesis - synthesis

Offline av_phile1

  • Trade Count: (+22)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,597
  • Cheers from a movie and music lover
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #581 on: May 24, 2004 at 08:01 PM »


But then, how come many of these equipment arrive in good condition?


Two reasons:

(1)  The japs who owned them are affluent enough to dispose of perfectly working units in 3 years time or less to make room for newer models that have more features.  That is actually the norm with very fast technical advancements that japanese electronics undergo.  They're not really "junks"  the way we have come to associate the word.

(2)  My informat tells me that if you see how they are tossed around at the pier, and still work when tested, you'd come to admire these "surplus's" robust qualities.  That's a telling testament to the high quality of these disposed appliances that are rumoured to be far superior to their "for export" counterparts.  Ofcourse, they do get some "retouching" by the sellers.  Cosmetically, mostly.

Offline sandawa

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 942
  • Remember Hegel's dialectics!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #582 on: May 24, 2004 at 08:40 PM »
I guess you're right but I think a big chunk of used audio in Japan is still absorbed by the domestic market. The Selworld register, when it was accessible, showed hundreds of consummated deals in a week's time on just one equipment model. And there are thousands of them. In used Sansui Alpha series, for instance which I monitored closely since I was lucky to own one, I found a hundred deals in one month with quotes hardly going out of a specific price band, ranging from 50% to 80% of the original equipment price.  Yet these equipment were about 10 to 15 years old!

That's not the case for similarly aged equipment from other brands where average auction prices ranged from 5% to 10% of brand new price. My observation was that Japan auctions on British and US equipment had the same price band as Alpha series and Accuphase, as well as esoteric brands, but the others go down really low. I tried cross-checking this out with Audiogon, and partly eBay prices, and except for Alpha series, which is not available in the US, the pricing patterns were somehow similar.

To me, high re-sale value could mean a reflection of quality and personal preferece of Japanese audiophiles. And I respect their taste. That might also explain why those brands/models don't normally get shipped to Piripin/Davao-kou junkyards.
thesis - antithesis - synthesis

Offline BGA VI

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 204
  • surplus addict
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #583 on: May 25, 2004 at 07:57 AM »
sir akyat, game ako,  ;D

i'll bring my :

Denon pma-780d
Yamaha ax-1200
HK 6100

Sasakit likod ko nyan ang bibigat pa naman . ;D ;D ;D

Offline Jolam1431

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #584 on: May 25, 2004 at 05:02 PM »
Mga bossing, I am a neophyte when it comes to surplus amps... But I got so interested upon reading all your posts...

Please bear with me with these questions:

1. How does these surplus amps sounds compared with the mini-compo available in the market today, like sony, jvc and phillips?
2. If I will opt to buy one surplus amps can I use the speakers of my components coz I have currenly four of them right now?
3. Speaking of sound quality which is better sounding, the Branded surplus speakers which is more or less using the technology of the 80's or itong mga bagong speakers ngayon na di naman masyadong high-end pero using the latest technology?

Yung lang po at maraming salamat....

Offline j_albert22

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,003
  • SARS LUMAYO KA
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #585 on: May 26, 2004 at 08:58 AM »


pre ito ang reference ko ng japanese integrated amps:

list #1
list #2
list #3

patience lang pre, sooner or later may maliligaw din... pag ginamit mo agad yung 4k/5k mo wala ka na pambili kung may lumabas na high-end.

yung onkyo 917 mas bago pero parehas lang sa specs ng mas luma na 817 at 819... kung marantz hintayin mo na lang yung PM-94 iba yata kasi ang design nung lower models eh... narinig ko na rin yung PM-80, parang ok naman hindi lang sya standout, compare namin sa hafler DH-220 mas maganda ang hafler...

naka-B4 ka pre bagay dyan sansui alpha907 pero unahan kita hehehe  ;D

pre ok na ba yong   Victor AX-Z911 sa 5K?

Offline av_phile1

  • Trade Count: (+22)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,597
  • Cheers from a movie and music lover
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #586 on: May 26, 2004 at 10:10 AM »
Mga bossing, I am a neophyte when it comes to surplus amps... But I got so interested upon reading all your posts...

Please bear with me with these questions:

1. How does these surplus amps sounds compared with the mini-compo available in the market today, like sony, jvc and phillips?
2. If I will opt to buy one surplus amps can I use the speakers of my components coz I have currenly four of them right now?
3. Speaking of sound quality which is better sounding, the Branded surplus speakers which is more or less using the technology of the 80's or itong mga bagong speakers ngayon na di naman masyadong high-end pero using the latest technology?

Yung lang po at maraming salamat....

(1)  Admittedly those mini-compos you see at Abenson and SM appliance can look and sound impressive at first sight.  But a jap surplus integrated of a known brand that is still is excellent working condition is a steal, to say the least.  I mean between a fresh P45T JVC compo and a P5T Sansui alpha or au series amp that still works, i consider it a no brainer to choose the latter.   Most of the amps, integrateds, receivers and players at the pier WERE mid-to-flagship models of the past and had commanded steep prices for their import versions.  Some were actually my "dream" amps 10 years ago. 

(2)  If the speakers are rated 8 ohms, there shouldn't be a problem using them in the interim.  Knowing most separate Japanese amps are rated from 6-8-16 ohms, you could have some mismatch if the compo speakers are rated 4 ohms which they usually are.

(3) Speaker technology hasn't really been as revolutionary as  those digital processors have been over the last 10 years.  In fact many audiophiles find 30 ++ year old speakers to sound just as excellent if not better than many newer speakers at a fraction of the cost. That is on the assumption those speakers had been well cared for by their owners.  I've seen some Pioneer, Yamaha and Technics speakers at the pier that looked original with well-maintained cabinetry.     In terms of sonic quality, they can be at par with many entry and mid level speakers of today.  Some were flagship models of the past that are a steal today. Just have them tested for buzzes and rattles at high volumes typical of old speakers.

Offline akyatbundok

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,641
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #587 on: May 26, 2004 at 12:10 PM »
pre ok na ba yong   Victor AX-Z911 sa 5K?

marami ako nakita niyan sa pier 4k lang... ;D

in case susubukan mo 'pre, try mo i-test yung digital inputs kung gumagana pa... yun ang main feature niya.

Offline j_albert22

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,003
  • SARS LUMAYO KA
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #588 on: May 26, 2004 at 12:18 PM »


marami ako nakita niyan sa pier 4k lang... ;D

in case susubukan mo 'pre, try mo i-test yung digital inputs kung gumagana pa... yun ang main feature niya.


yup gumagana pa coz ginamit nya as a front channel sa HT

Offline akyatbundok

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,641
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #589 on: May 26, 2004 at 12:51 PM »
ahhh hehehe.... na-curious din ako sa modelo na 'to kasi nasa website siya kasama ang mga high-end amps.

main selling point is the built-in 16-bit DAC... it shortens the analog signal path to about 0.5m... they also claim to do some high-speed switching at the DAC level to mimic a Class A amp (?) at 120wpc 6ohms.

the higher model AX-Z921 seems to have a better DAC (18-bit).... but i'm most curious about the "K2 Interface" mark at the front panel.... it's the same technology JVC uses to manufacture XRCD's.... i don't know what the K2 interface does, but in the 90's Victor released a CD player/DAC combo that has a K2 interface and it cost 1.4million yen.

Victor XL-Z1000A/XP-DA1000A CD player/DAC

« Last Edit: May 26, 2004 at 12:54 PM by akyatbundok »

Offline kimpao

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,094
  • Gulaman-gulaman!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #590 on: May 26, 2004 at 12:54 PM »
ahhh hehehe.... na-curious din ako sa modelo na 'to kasi nasa website siya kasama ang mga high-end amps.

main selling point is the built-in 16-bit DAC... it shortens the analog signal path to about 0.5m... they also claim to do some high-speed switching at the DAC level to mimic a Class A amp (?) at 120wpc 6ohms.

the higher model AX-Z921 seems to have a better DAC (18-bit).... but i'm most curious about the "K2 Interface" mark at the front panel.... it's the same technology JVC uses to manufacture XRCD's.... i don't know what the K2 interface does, but in the 90's Victor released a CD player/DAC combo (XL-Z1000A/XP-DA1000A) that has a K2 interface and it cost 1.4million yen.

Oh! ayan ka nanaman! :o 4k isang pares na ng telefunken 12ax7 yun ah ::) may sukli ka pa pang meryenda sa jollibug. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline akyatbundok

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,641
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #591 on: May 26, 2004 at 12:59 PM »
pre OT ayus sa CD player no... sana may maligaw nyan sa pier... tutal sasabihin ng mga tao dun -- ano ba yan ang cheap ng tatak "Victor" !!  hehehehe parang kotse pala ang presyo.

telefunken ba?  hintayin ko na lang maging 4sale yan sayo... sana makahanap ka ng mullard!! hehehe  ;D

Offline j_albert22

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,003
  • SARS LUMAYO KA
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #592 on: May 26, 2004 at 01:04 PM »

Oh! ayan ka nanaman! :o 4k isang pares na ng telefunken 12ax7 yun ah ::) may sukli ka pa pang meryenda sa jollibug. ;D ;D ;D ;D

yan ka nanaman walang pakialaman medyo nagsurf lang naman kami ni roger nga high end Integrated amp hehehehe nagtatanong kc ako dahil marami akong nakitang AMP don sa binilihan ko nag CDP....di po kami bibili tsaka alang pambili di katulad mo DONNNNNNNNNN...............................peace  :P :P

Offline H a n $

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,450
  • Gulaman time!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #593 on: May 26, 2004 at 04:25 PM »
J_albert,

 ;D ;D ;D high blood ka?? >:D

Offline D0Hbert

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 190
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #594 on: May 26, 2004 at 08:23 PM »
To those interested in collecting really vintage amps, just saw a classic, Sansui AU-777D. This is the first ss model sansui released after ending production of their tube amps, read somewhere that this model number's tonal quality was specifically designed to mimic that of tube amps. First quoted price was 4,000. Pwede pang babaan to 3,000 malamang. Parang transistor radio ang dials, merong bias adjustment for treble, mid and bass, 35watts per channel lang. One more thing, ang linis pa ng itsura, nanduon na sya sa dulo, malapit na ng BPI ba yon? lampas pa ng tindahan na merong stacked speakers sa labas.

Offline kid

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,550
  • Certified Kwela Boys
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #595 on: May 27, 2004 at 11:14 AM »
mukang yummy yan ah...... have you tested it bro?

lagyan natin ng pics



« Last Edit: May 27, 2004 at 12:40 PM by punk_kid »

Offline Superman

  • Trade Count: (+138)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,157
  • Master Showman Presents...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 366
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #596 on: May 27, 2004 at 11:36 AM »
guys...those with the sansui hybrid amps...keep them...in singapore it retails at around S$500...or about Php15k above...you're lucky to have those...akyat, bro...do you still have them???
« Last Edit: May 27, 2004 at 11:37 AM by Superman »
Fyne|EAR|Hana|Technics|SAEC|Wiim|Western Electric|Audiolab|Acrolink|Oyaide|Oppo|Tellurium

Offline akyatbundok

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,641
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #597 on: May 27, 2004 at 11:41 AM »
yup bro, i still have the sansui ss and luxman hybrid... wow mahal pala benta dyan sa singapore.

i wish i had a contact in japan who can bring home some amps...

in yahoo auctions i saw a sansui au-alpha707i selling for Y2,000 or roughly P1,000 and it still looks new.



how about this alpha707XR?  isang lapad lang or roughly P5,000 and looks newer.... its bnew price is Y170,000 or around P80,000... 130wpc, SN 110db

« Last Edit: May 27, 2004 at 12:06 PM by akyatbundok »

Offline j_albert22

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,003
  • SARS LUMAYO KA
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #598 on: May 27, 2004 at 01:03 PM »
J_albert,

 ;D ;D ;D high blood ka?? >:D

di ako highblood hehehe nagpapaliwanag lang

Offline Jolam1431

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Surplus amps
« Reply #599 on: May 27, 2004 at 02:05 PM »
Sir AV_Phile1 salamat po sa reply...

After reading the posts about the surplus amps you guys got me interested  ;D ...  Kaya lang it seems I dont have lot of choices in here kasi when I made rounds with the different surplus stores here in Iligan City, Mindanao... Wala akong nakita na worthy of a second look... Gas-gas na lahat naka display at parang medyo malayo duon sa mga iponopost niyo dito..

May nakita po ako in one of the pawnshops here na naka-auction na "Luxman Surround  Amplifier for 3.5K di ko pa na audition but just in case is this a good buy?