Topic: Surplus amps

[Lord Foo]

Last time I was there a month ago there were 2 or 3 luxman integrateds I saw with the Duo-Beta circuits.  I saw the first in one of the stores dedicated solely to audio with stacks of sansui and other amps, VHS and CD players.  Another inside the complex. 

Okay i checked the stores inside the complex. I found a black Luxman L3. I brought it home with me.

I wonder what this unit can do.

Foo

[sandawa]

sir Foo, parang galit ka yata sa pera lately. dami mo nang Luxman, Sansui at Pioneer na binili these past weeks. mahal pa naman diyan sa Pier

[Lord Foo]

Nde naman galit sa pera pre.    Three brothers kami. nakikibili sa akin ung mga brods ko din. I just use "I" instead of "we" to simplify. Besides if you think about it, i bought a Yamaha rxv740 yamaha receiver and a set of Tannoys and Energy HT speakers about two years back and all the surplus purchases i have made is just a small fraction of what i shelled out at the time. And when we're done with appreciating the surplus units, they'd still fetch a good price since we bought them at bargain prices and have consulted the likes of Sandawa as to what is of good build and quality. All in all buying surplus units is IMHO a good decision during these "economically" challenged times.

I bought a Sony CDP 333esd kanina for my brod. As you recommended in another thread, the unit is a very good one. Would you know if it can work with a generic remote control? Now i want one for myself. 

regards,
foo.

[sandawa]

pareho tayo sir, may pinapasahan din akong mga kapatid sa Maynila. yung isa binili yung Musical Fidelity A-120 at Celestion SL-6 ko last year at P18K. ngayon naman kinukuha yung Thorens 320 ko at Epos 14 ng P20K. yun sigurong Thorens ibibigay ko, pero no way ang Epos. yung batang kapatid ko naman ina-arbor sa akin yung isang Sonic T-amp/Tono combo ko. ayaw pa nila ng Jap surplus kasi halata daw na sa Tokyo recycling centers galing. buti naman, kasi mabigat magdala nito sa Maynila. my Sansui Alpha 907 weighs 30 kgs!

true about your comment on brand new vs. surplus pricing. got hooked into surplus two years ago when i found out my Sansui Alpha 907 was being sold in UK at 2,000 British pounds (Hi-Fi Choice 1994), on the other hand, an amp made in UK i auditioned in Makati two years ago sold at P60K was in same Hifi Choice at price of roughly 400 British pounds (lumang mid-level model pala binebenta rito as upscale and at original brand new price - hi-hi-hi!). and to think Jap domestic models (100V) are technologically superior compared with same models sold internationally (120V or 240V).

POSTSCRIPT:

Yes the 333ESD would run on generic RCs. if you'd have tracking problems, PM me, its trimpots are easy to adjust provided the lasers are still okay.

[Lord Foo]

If you ever let go of that 907... put me at the top of your list... 

Here's the post of my brod re: the 333esd versus players from China...

"I burned identical CDs.
Connected a china made player to aux1 and the Sony to aux2.
Then set tone controls to flat. The sony wins hands down.
Sony provides Bass extension rather than emphasis.
Vocals from the Sony is more real, has less emphasis but clearer.
Now i know what 'manipis ung made in china' meant."

"Tataas electric bills ko. Di nakakapagod ung Sony na pakinggan kahit walang patayan maghapon..."


I really have to get one of those ESDs for myself. Gusto ko sana ung 337esd na may wood sa sides. hay!! wishful thinking. Now I use a pioneer 566k dvd player also for audio.

Foo

[markmlists]

Okay i checked the stores inside the complex. I found a black Luxman L3. I brought it home with me.

I wonder what this unit can do.

Foo

LordFoo, Galing mo naman maghanap! How much mo nakuha yung L3?
Thanks!

[wanderlust]

congrats to the new finds lordfoo. if you got the time post mo pics dito for us to appreciate more.

[Lord Foo]

Okay, the Marantz Esotec PM6 is now with my brother. I  didn't buy it before because it heated up at "egg fryng level  inordinately fast. But someone mentioned that the Class A amp runs very hot even when the amp is just turned on and is not working. Besides, the amp is not cosmetically pleasing with some parts already rusting. However, the seller sold it at half the price they normally sell a 300+ watt power consuming integrated amp.

I'll try to get some pics up soon.

[sandawa]

true. class A amps get very hot even without turning the volume up. the logic is that all components are "On", or prepared, when the signal comes in, unlike in class B/AB where electronic components are mostly on "standby" basis. thus, class A harnesses the amp's potential to reproduce what's recorded at high fidelity.

sir, Foo, have the DC offset and biases of the Pm-6 checked. those two generally have the solutions to amps that get too hot. there's a Marantz Esotec Pm-8 mk2 here that's worse. the problem is the biases swing radically resulting in two busted transistors everytime it's used for over an hour. can't trace where the problem is, but AK's Axel is so interested in it, he wanted me to describe everythig inside PM-8 Mark 2 for his The Vintage Knob website.

[bhongskie]

Hi guys, I've been quite tempted to join the surplus amp bandwagon after reading this thread.  My only problem is, I know nothing about the technical specs of an amp not even the terminology (am a newbie).  I did write out the models and brands of amps suggested here so I'll know what to look for at the pier. 

I wanted to set-up an audio only system.  I was actually set on purchasing a new NAD stereo amp but after reading this, I am leaning towards the surplus alternative.

Can you guys provide some tips on buying surplus amp at the pier?  Or better yet if any of you guys are planning to shop for an amp at the pier baka pwede makisabay para may expert akong kasama. 

Thanks in advance

[Narayan]

bhongskie,

sent you pm bro.

[bhongskie]

bhongskie,

sent you pm bro.

got your pm bro.  Thanks a lot!  I replied back through pm.

[Lord Foo]

Hi Bhongskie,

Were you able to get your surplus units at the pier? I hope one of the advanced Surplus geeks in the forum went with you.

I haven't been back at the pier for a while...naubos na budget ko ...heheh. But the last time i was there, I saw a Luxman LV102 in one of the stores. Check it out pre. Luxman's are always a good buy. The unit was cosmetically in tip top shape. I didnt auditioniit though. Besides wala na kong pambili.  I went for a low priced bookshelf at the time and a Sony CD ES337 player.

If you haven't gone there yet. Dont get the Toshiba CDPs even if they offer it to you at a low price. namimili ung mga un ng CDs. Dont buy immediately from the stores beside the road. Check out also the stores inside the covered market. They sell at lower prices because they do not have a good location.

[bhongskie]

Hi Lordfoo,

Thanks for the reply and the tip!  I haven't been to the pier yet bro.  But I already had a listen to the Sony TA-F333ESX and a Sansui AU-607 courtesy of Narayan.  He invited me and a friend for a listen last Saturday at his place.  Those amps are really good.  Only regret was that we we're not abe to hook up those amps with Narayan's MS914 iba kasi naka set-up dun.  Yung 914 kasi one of my options for the speaker set.

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to joining the experts here when they decide for a trip to the pier just so I can see other models and compare them to the amps I've seen and heard at Narayan's.


Narayan,

Thanks bro for accomodating us!  Will communicate with you once I finally decide on a purchase.

[Lord Foo]

Number1, a fellow forum member is I believe selling a Sony TAF555ESXII amp.
http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=23866.20

A Sansui AuD607 is good but a Sansui AUD707 is better while the Top of the Line AUD907 is the best. Also there are versions of these amps or releases. I have both a Sansui 707 AUDGExtra and an AUDXDecade. The AUDXdecade is in my opinion much better sounding than the Gextra.

I was able to get two Luxmans at the pier at 3 thou each. You have to use every bargaining trick you know to push down the price. (That's the part I enjoy also...the haggling to get a better price.)

re speakers, okay naman IMHO ung mga modern speakers but a lot of them are now being produced in China, Malysia, Mexico etc. I've heard it said that these are inferior in quality to the old speakers made in Japan, England or the US. As for my personal experience, I have an MX Tannoy bookshelf that I bought brand new less than a year ago and I am not using it anymore. It was made in China. I have matched it with two older bookshelves i have recently aqcuired at less than half the cost and the vintage bookshelves run rings around the Tannoy. (a 32 year old Kef104ab and a Victor SX3). What I am saying is that the hunt for excellent vintage speaker is an enjoying experience in itself for me...and I save a few pesos in the process. And madaming factors to consider in buying speakers aside from pesos...your listening room characteristics, your personal taste...your other equipment.

Gandahan mo rin ung source mo sir....kahit anong ganda ng amp and ng speaker...kung mediocre ung source mo...wala din. The best CDPlayers as per advice from the gurus in this forum are the Sony ES models so I went for those units and IMHO they are right.

[m0b1u5]

i've been to the marketplace... there's a good looking Sansui Alpha 707XR gold color but with a higher tag price of 8K!  The wooden (?) sides are still intact and looked good.  Haven't tried to audition though.  Sony 555ESJ was also sighted.

check it out na lang...

just sharing...

[sandawa]

i hope the Pier traders don't read this. that Alpha 707XR's price could be reasonable and it's worth an audition - if the unit is in perfect condition. the 707XR came out in Japan in 1993 and is rated at roughly 120 to 130wpc. it could run with ease even at 2 ohm load (very few amps could do that) up to 300wpc. it was retailed at about 200,000 yen (roughly $1,900) during the early '90s. if i were in Manila and it's in good condition, i'll buy it at that price. more backgrounder on that unit's price history: the Alpha 607MRX, a lower version of the successor series of that model, was retailed in the US at $1,750 in 1997. the US auction market (Orion bluebook/eBay) still quotes Alpha 607MRX at $600 used - about the same price as AU-X1 and AU-X11. the Alpha 707XR should cost more than the Alpha607MRX.

[agmjr]

sir i am looking for a surplus amp that could drive my 25W bass shaker? any recommendations? ty po

[sandawa]

almost any surplus amp could do that. remember, surplus Jap domestic amps are of higher quality compared with same models they sold internationally. my impression is that these surpluses, if in A-okay condition, are even better in quality than new production amps of similar categories, Brit- or Yankee-made.

[agmjr]

sir sandawa, the bass shaker manual says not to exceed the 25w rms? ok lang ba yung amps sa pier? sori if ot? ty po

[sandawa]

even 200wpc RMS amps hardly use 25wpc RMS (continuous). i'm using a 160wpc amp on my 60-watt floorstander and i hear better results than using lower-powered amps. usually, we use from 2 to 10wpc lang even at loud volumes (this would depend a lot on room environment and efficiency of the speakers hooked). the reason for the extra wattage is to capture the dynamics coming out of classical/orchestral pieces, especially pipe organs and other power-hungry low frequency parts. your bass shaker would easily match with 25 to 50wpc or even up to 100wpc surplus amps costing from P1.5K to P3.5K there at the Pier.   

[agmjr]

sir sandawa,
ty po sa quick reply

[fweyd]

ano kayang ok na surplus amp to drive 2 Bass Shakers and 1 DQ-12 ? 

kasi from the DVD Player's Sub Out .. kakabit ko sya sa (i dont know what INPUT) amp tapos nakakabit yung 2 Bass Shaker at isang DQ-12..

also..

san yung pier ? 

[Jairus]

I went back to the pier last Saturday to scout for an amp (armed with the Niji list in the car  and my test CDs).  After going around the outlets, I narrowed down my choices to the following:

1.  Alpine/Luxman LV101 - though this is not in the niji list, I still included this as the Luxman's are higly recommended by the gurus here.  Had a listen to this and the mids and high sounded good and clear pero parang kulang sa weight yung bass.  I'm also a bit dissapointed with its weight which is quite light and when I peeked through its grills parang medyo maliit l yung transformer niya.  Gurus, ganito ba talaga deign ng Luxman?
2.  Sony TA333ESX - Saw this inside the covered mall area and mukhang ok pa yung condition ng unit.  Asking was a bit high so I didn't bother to listen to it.  Just listed it down anyway just in case I can't find a better bargain.
3.  Sansui AUD-507X
4.  Sansui AUD-607F Extra
- Saw these last two units in the same shop along the road (I think among the shops I visited there, it has the biggest inventory of amps and CDPs).  Although, I know that the AUD-507x is the smaller brother of the much sought after AUD907x, I opted to get the 607F-Extra even if its P500 more than the 507x's price because of the following:
-higher power rating
-wood panel of the 607F-Extra is still intact
-much heavier build
-Tested both with the same source and material and I liked the 607F better.

I'm disappointed not to find a Sony ES series CDP so I settled for Sansui CDP which read all my p-disk/CDR/Orig test materials and hooked up to the 607F sounded excellent  Since I got the 2 units from the same shop, I was able to haggle the price a little bit lower .

I felt I had a good deal with these purchases and this was confirmed when I hooked it up with my 15-year old JVC component bookshelves.  The sound was full, the mids are clear, the hihgs are just right, and it has ample bass...I can't believe I'm listening to my old mini-component bookshelves.  Just out of curiosity, I played the same material (which BTW is track 4 of Audiophile Voices I) in my HK/Diamond 8.3 set-up and it only edged my all-surplus finds by a small margin in the bass region (which is understandble because the 8.3s are towers).

I felt especially good also about the Sansui CDP x317r (not in the niji list) because it sounded better than Denon DCD 1500 and it read all CDs so inspected it more thouroughly this time...and my, I was surprised 9and a bit disappointed) to find out printed at the back "Made in Taiwan"  Anyway, did I say it sounded great?

[agmjr]

i was in the pier last saturday and i was also able to test the luxman 101 and denon pma 390 side by side with each other. ok naman pareho sa akin pakinig but i settled for the denon kasi medyo luma na masyado yung luxman and sira yung isang input terminal ng luxman.  they've got the same price btw. medyo mahal kuha ko but i still presisted kasi sabik na ako ma set-up ang baa shaker ko.  anyway  happy ako

[sandawa]

1.  Alpine/Luxman LV101 - though this is not in the niji list, I still included this as the Luxman's are higly recommended by the gurus here.  Had a listen to this and the mids and high sounded good and clear pero parang kulang sa weight yung bass.  I'm also a bit dissapointed with its weight which is quite light and when I peeked through its grills parang medyo maliit l yung transformer niya.  Gurus, ganito ba talaga deign ng Luxman?

...2.  Sony TA333ESX - Saw this inside the covered mall area and mukhang ok pa yung condition ng unit.  Asking was a bit high so I didn't bother to listen to it.  Just listed it down anyway just in case I can't find a better bargain...

...I felt especially good also about the Sansui CDP x317r (not in the niji list) because it sounded better than Denon DCD 1500 and it read all CDs so inspected it more thouroughly this time...and my, I was surprised 9and a bit disappointed) to find out printed at the back "Made in Taiwan"  Anyway, did I say it sounded great?

nice finds. i'm not a guru, also a student trying to learn from posts here, but i'll venture reactions on your inquiries:

1. Luxman is definitely a good brand but small/light transfo, unless a digital amp, indicates low power/cost amp. the heavier transfo usually indicates the manufacturer did not cut on cost. most of the times, heavy transfos coupled with high-power capacitors translate to deep clean bass.

2. Sony ES amps are good and still highly regarded in international audio enthusiast forums such as Audio Karma. in such forums, Jap domestic models (what we refer to here as surplus) are highly respected due to superior quality with respect to components used (affordability of the Japanese was once higher compared with the Americans')

3. the Sansui CDP you got was probably made after the original Sansui closed shop and the brand sold to other investors. the last CDP series produced by Sansui Japan, i think, were the Alpha series. don't be sad, if your x317 works well, good sound/reader, you still got a bargain.

the bottom line, however, is that you got a good deal (unless you were overpriced). the AU-D607F, rated at 80wpc, is equivalent to AUD-7S in the US distributed back in early '80s and originally sold at about $480 (retailed at close to P15K here brand new before 1985 -- $1=P25).

[Jairus]

Thank you Sandawa.  I'm very happy with my purchases.  The CDP is really good (despite being taiwan-made): the cd loading transport is pretty solid and stable and the entire unit is in mint condition and it sounded great.  Kaya nga I bought it agad kahit na I was bent on getting an Es series Sony.

The 607 F is also in pretty good condition with the wood panels still intact.  I opened it up and medyo madami ng alikabok and it seems wala pa namang napalitan na parts.  I didn't try to clean it yet kasi baka may masira. What is the best way to clean it ba?

My only complaint with the amp I got are the binding posts: it cannot accept banana plugs (kaya hindi ko siya na-test with my Wharfs kasi naka bi-wire ako and hassle mag kalas) and parang lumutong na yung iba plugs na parang bibigay na.  Can I change the binding posts with newer ones? Where can I have this done?  Thanks!

[sandawa]

i usually brush the amp's innards, then vacuum (car vacuum) the remaining dust, and WD40 spray cleaner for the connections, especially the volume/selector knobs/switches. if you can get hold of a Deoxit spray cleaner - still only available in the US i think - it's better. i think you'll be alot happier if you'll hook your 607F with your Diamond.

some members here are capable of replacing the traditional speaker terminals at the back of the amp with banana-type ones. if you have a soldering iron, and you know sources in Raon, replacement of terminals is fairly simple. in my case, i simply use appropriate Monster Cable connectors - spade for small binding posts, or gold pins for spring type - without any modification. for my vintage speakers, i did change all the terminals to banana-types.

[fweyd]

ano kayang ok na surplus amp to drive 2 Bass Shakers and 1 DQ-12 ? 

kasi from the DVD Player's Sub Out .. kakabit ko sya sa (i dont know what INPUT) amp tapos nakakabit yung 2 Bass Shaker at isang DQ-12..

also..

san yung pier ? 

waaah! help 

[H a n $]

waaah! help 

Bro san ka mangagaling?? familiar ka Manila Cathedral lapit na sya dun.