Topic: 60w/ch - is this "enough"?

[DTNS]

would a 60w/ch AVR be enough for a 5.1 speaker system? (4 satellites, center channel, subwoofer)  would it be loud enough?

btw, my room is about 18sqm.

[Nelson de Leon]

Kung satellites, as in small speakers lang, (nearly the same sa mga HTiB), yes, kayang kaya na. Your AVRs power efficiency would be dependent sa speakers na gagamitin mo. Though it would be much better if you post the brand, model and specs of your speakers para sure. Baka mamaya yun satellite sa iyo, huge floorstander na sa amin. 

[JojoD818]

Satellites or floor standers it won't really matter, what matter's is your speakers sensitivity. If your speakers are sensitive enough then those 60 Watts would be more than enough.

Or you can set all your speakers to small and let your sub handle the bottom end.

[Nelson de Leon]

Satellites or floor standers it won't really matter, what matter's is your speakers sensitivity. If your speakers are sensitive enough then those 60 Watts would be more than enough.

Or you can set all your speakers to small and let your sub handle the bottom end.

Paano ito? 94 db tukayo. 

[DTNS]

Kung satellites, as in small speakers lang, (nearly the same sa mga HTiB), yes, kayang kaya na. Your AVRs power efficiency would be dependent sa speakers na gagamitin mo. Though it would be much better if you post the brand, model and specs of your speakers para sure. Baka mamaya yun satellite sa iyo, huge floorstander na sa amin.  

I am considering the JBL Cinema 300 5.1 and the Harman Kardon AVR 156.


JBL Cinema 300 Product Specifications

Brand Name: JBL
Speaker Type: System
Color Name: Black
Frequency Response Curve: 32Hz - 20kHz
Audio Sensitivity: 89 dB
Impdedance: 8
Crossover Description: Variable
Speaker Driver Material Type: PolyPlas

* Voice-matched speakers
* Dual midrange center speaker
* 150-watt powered subwoofer Fast-moving 8-inch (200mm) woofer
* Down-firing bass driver

Harman Kardon AVR 156 (specs from http://uk.harmankardon.com)

Audio Specifications and Features:

Stereo Power   60W per channel, two channels driven @ 8 ohms, 1kHz
Multichannel Power (all channels driven)   60W per channel, two channels driven @ 8 ohms, 1kHz
Amplifier Type   
High Instantaneous Current Capability:   25 Amps
THD:   0.07% @ 8 ohms
Ultrawide Bandwidth Design @ 1W (+0dB / –3dB)   10Hz – 130kHz
Signal-to-noise Ratio (IHF-A)   100 dB
Slew Rate   40V/μsec
Input Sensitivity/Impedance   200mV/47k ohms

*for some strange reason, amazon.co.uk posts the HK AVR 156 as having 70W per channel.

[joko11]

Paano ito? 94 db tukayo. 

sa sarili kong pagkakaintindi kung mataas ang sensitivity ng speaker ibig sabihin madali nga syang idrive.pero hindi nangangahulugan na hindi sya hihingi ng mataas na wattage kung kinakaylangan

[raider125jeigh]

HK 60w per channel can competer with other brand that has 80w per channel
check ka ng mga review meron iba na may mga lab results

that 60w per channel when driven 5 channels operates below 60w

[Stagea]

The AVR 156 would suit those satellite speakers just fine. You're supposed to run bass redirection with this set at a highish cross point anyway, so you'd need far less power from your amp.

 Just remember that this set is not meant to play at high volume levels. I expect the sub to run out of steam well before the receiver would with movie material.

[JojoD818]

sa sarili kong pagkakaintindi kung mataas ang sensitivity ng speaker ibig sabihin madali nga syang idrive.pero hindi nangangahulugan na hindi sya hihingi ng mataas na wattage kung kinakaylangan

yun overall spl na makukuha mo sa 60W sa isang 84db ay iba sa 94db na speaker. yan sinasabi mo na pag hingi pa ng karagdagan wattage ay may kinalaman pa sa power handling ng speaker.

[joko11]

yun overall spl na makukuha mo sa 60W sa isang 84db ay iba sa 94db na speaker. yan sinasabi mo na pag hingi pa ng karagdagan wattage ay may kinalaman pa sa power handling ng speaker.

upang matapatan mo ang spl ng isang mataas na sensitivity na speaker kumpara sa mas mababang sensitivity iaangat mo ng kaunti ang pihitan ng volume.hindi ba nangangahulugan ito ng mas mataas na konsumo na kinakaylangan?

[JojoD818]

upang matapatan mo ang spl ng isang mataas na sensitivity na speaker kumpara sa mas mababang sensitivity iaangat mo ng kaunti ang pihitan ng volume.hindi ba nangangahulugan ito ng mas mataas na konsumo na kinakaylangan?

parang yan na din yun sinabi ko sa huling post ko. kung mataas ang sensitivity ng speaker ng TS eh di kasya na yun 60W ng AVR niya.

[muypogi]

Better check your specs when looking at potential AVR.  Ratings must be ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN . . . just by looking at the HK 156 specs you posted seems that it is not 60 x 5. . . though mataas yung current capability niya, pero most likely 2 channels driven.

Stereo Power   60W per channel, two channels driven @ 8 ohms, 1kHz
Multichannel Power (all channels driven)   60W per channel, two channels driven @ 8 ohms, 1kHz
Amplifier Type   
High Instantaneous Current Capability:   25 Amps
THD:   0.07% @ 8 ohms
Ultrawide Bandwidth Design @ 1W (+0dB / –3dB)   10Hz – 130kHz
Signal-to-noise Ratio (IHF-A)   100 dB
Slew Rate   40V/μsec
Input Sensitivity/Impedance   200mV/47k ohms

Contrast this with a NAD all in one player:

http://nadelectronics.com/products/av-receivers/VISO-FIVE-DVD/CD-Surround-Sound-Receiver


5 x 45 Watts, 20Hz-20kHz, with <0.08% THD into 8 Ohms, all channels driven simultaneously (NAD Full Disclosure Power)
5 x 60 Watts FTC power

[RU9]

if you want to go really loud, you better start with sensitive speakers (90dB or above sensitivity)

Q: What does a speaker's sensitivity rating tell me, and why is it important?

A: A speaker's sensitivity rating (sometimes called efficiency) tells you how effectively the speaker converts power into sound. The higher the number, the more efficient the speaker, and the louder the sound it creates with a given input signal.

An efficient speaker helps you maximize your available wattage. Believe it or not, a 3 dB increase in speaker sensitivity produces the same audible increase in volume as doubling your amplifier power. So when you're shopping for speakers, it always pays to check the sensitivity spec — especially if you have a lower-powered receiver or amp.

[RU9]

Also  consider this:


A 4ohm load actually draws twice the amplifier
current (and hence power) of an 8ohm model for
the same volume control setting. So for true
comparison subtract 3dB from the sensitivity
of a 4ohm to reveal its real conversion efficiency
compared with an 8ohm model.

From HiFI Choice May 1993

[markcrenz]

the 60w/ch @ 1khz indicates less available power at the lower frequencies. you can use 89dB speakers but only at moderate listening levels in your 18 sqm room. of course you can play it loud but at the expense of distortion.

[DTNS]

I probably won't be using it at too loud volumes. (magagalit nanay ko at ang kapitbahay. )

[raider125jeigh]

I probably won't be using it at too loud volumes. (magagalit nanay ko at ang kapitbahay. )

un naman pala eh hehehe

pwede na yan

[DTNS]

un naman pala eh hehehe

pwede na yan

hehe! thanks!   

naisip ko malakas na rin siguro ang 60w/ch. ang HTIB na Logitech Z-906 THX-certified, 67w/ch na. so malakas na rin siguro to.

[joko11]

hehe! thanks!   

naisip ko malakas na rin siguro ang 60w/ch. ang HTIB na Logitech Z-906 THX-certified, 67w/ch na. so malakas na rin siguro to.

kung enaf na sayo yung htib ng logitech.im pretty much sure enaf na rin sayo tong avr with 60w/ch. you need double power rating just to double spl lang without distortion kung trip mo magpatugtog ng malakas

[markcrenz]

you actually need 10x power to have an apparent doubling of sound level. 2x power raises the volume by only 3 dB

[joko11]

you actually need 10x power to have an apparent doubling of sound level. 2x power raises the volume by only 3 dB

a yes tama tama.10x just to double the trouble
thanks for clarifying king mark

[muypogi]

hehe! thanks!   

naisip ko malakas na rin siguro ang 60w/ch. ang HTIB na Logitech Z-906 THX-certified, 67w/ch na. so malakas na rin siguro to.

Well, ano yung 67wpc nung Logitech . . . RMS continuous power or Peak ? World of difference. . .Saka HTIB will pale in comparison to even a basic 2 channel setup. . .

[markcrenz]

nawala bilib ko sa thx when they started certifying those x.1 systems that can barely reproduce 30 hz and rate power at 5% distortion. 

[joko11]

nawala bilib ko sa thx when they started certifying those x.1 systems that can barely reproduce 30 hz and rate power at 5% distortion. 

money talks king mark

[Nelson de Leon]

nawala bilib ko sa thx when they started certifying those x.1 systems that can barely reproduce 30 hz and rate power at 5% distortion. 

Di kaya iba ang standards ng thx rating for those? Ang alam ko, iba iba din ang standard nila depending on the application ng speakers.

[DTNS]

nawala bilib ko sa thx when they started certifying those x.1 systems that can barely reproduce 30 hz and rate power at 5% distortion. 

maraming speakers na walang thx-certification pero mas maganda ang tunog sa thx-certified.

[qguy]

WOW !!!

 pa share naman ng mga models na yun

nawala bilib ko sa thx when they started certifying those x.1 systems that can barely reproduce 30 hz and rate power at 5% distortion. 

[rthirtyfourgtr]

share ko lang, an unbiased (at least IMO) write-up regarding THX Certification:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles/technical-topics/what-it-means-and-how-to-use-it.html

[JojoD818]

kung enaf na sayo yung htib ng logitech.im pretty much sure enaf na rin sayo tong avr with 60w/ch. you need double power rating just to double spl lang without distortion kung trip mo magpatugtog ng malakas

Mali po yun double this, double that sir.

you actually need 10x power to have an apparent doubling of sound level. 2x power raises the volume by only 3 dB

Ito ang tama. Log kasi ears ng humans.

[rthirtyfourgtr]

Di kaya iba ang standards ng thx rating for those? Ang alam ko, iba iba din ang standard nila depending on the application ng speakers.

correct, kaya nga there are different performance categories: Certified Multimedia (PC speakers), I/S Plus Systems (HTIBs), Select2, and Ultra2

take note that THX PC speakers are designed for near-field personal use, with the front LCR only 27" away, while surrounds about 54" behind as per THX recommendation. not intended to be a substitute for HTIB.

maraming speakers na walang thx-certification pero mas maganda ang tunog sa thx-certified.

perfectly true. the definition of better/worse sounding would depend from person to person though...