Topic: Comparisons of Receivers

[maximusmeridius]

Racio,

I think you should give Harman Kardon receivers a try.  In my opinion, they better Denon, Yamaha and Marantz receivers especially in the sonics department.  In case you are not aware, Harman/Kardon is under the Harman Group which includes high quality brands such as Mark Levinson, Proceed, Lexicon, Revel, Infinity and JBL.

Regarding speakers, both of your choices are good.  It just boils down to personal preference, like anything in audio, if not in life.  I like sonuses better than B&ws and Dynaudios.  I like its natural and warm sound as well as its excellence in the PRAT (pace, rythm and timing) department.  If you want to be involved in the music and be seduced, then get the sonus.  If you want to hear sound with accuracy, then the get the others.

Good luck.

[levi]

Pare welcome to PinoyDVD,

  Good Luck and happy hunting.

levi

[Racio]

rtsy,

Well, budget constraints are my primary reason why I’m doing this slowly. The li’l missus ain’t particularly sold on the idea that I’m getting back to my old hobby again.

You’re right about the Dyns. They were using an rxv1000, if memory serves me right. But they also pointed out that they were still in the process of breaking the speakers in. In fact, I’m using Dyns driven by a McIntosh amp in my car for the past 5 years. My mobile fidelity setup’s highs are silky smooth, excellent mids, but it’s kinda lost down low. BTW, the previous generation of Sonus was using Dyns. I’m not completely sure what they are using with new series but the current tweeters look the same as Dynaudio’s 1” soft domes.

Yes, it was at AudioVisual at Shang. With a Denon 3802 I think. It’s just a shame they didn’t have the Veritas 2.1 for me to audition. I was really bowled over with the 2.3’s. I’m only in the market for bookshelf speakers, so floor standers are out of reach for me at this point in time.

From what I’ve read (professional reviews as well as consumer ones at AudioReview), the Sonus come extremely recommended. Then a couple of days ago, I was finally able to audition the Tino’s at Upscale. Wow, wow and wow!    The mid frequency reproduction is truly out of this world. Highs were satin. It sounded truly lifelike. It never sounded artificial at all…phenomenal. The only speaker that felt “right”! I’m sure you know what I mean. I was so taken aback; I made the downpayment right away.

I’m still waiting for the Marantz SR6200 to arrive at Listening Room so that I can audition both of ‘em. Until then, the Sonus are reserved under my name. (hehe)  

And now, with all my anticipation, I can hardly sleep at night! Yeesh! I can’t remember the last time I felt like this!  

- Racio

[Racio]

Maximusmeridius,

Dude, how much are the Harman’s locally? Especially the AVR7500? Since you’re at it, could you also post the name of the shop and their phone number? Thanks. Someone (from this forum) told me that the Harman’s and Marantz’s have similar if not the same internals. Admittedly, I’m in no position to confirm this, could this be true?  

I’ve a copy of Sound&Vision’s ’02 buyers guide and it reads that the 7500 is only a 5 channel amp with 100W/ channel. The Marantz 6200 with 105Wx6 @ 8 ohms is going for P33,000 (I’m still trying to negotiate the price though). The Denon 2802 (around 100Wx6 @ 8 ohms) is around P40 grand. I really hope the Harman’s are less expensive than this.

I’d love to see and hear a rigid comparo test among these three AVRs. Anyone out there willing to do this?  

- Racio

Hey pareng Lev, thanks for the invite to this forum! Konting pasensya pa sakin pare, until I finalize my purchases na lang tapos hindi na kita muna kukulitin ulit. Thanks for your evocations dude. I really appreciate it.  

[striderhiryu1]

Racio - you auditioned the SF Concertino Home in Upscale Mega (or Parksquare?).  Magkano na ba ang selling price nila.

I almost bought the SF Grand Piano (Php 103,000 less 20% - sale yata that time)  about 2 years ago but my wife didn't let me.  I'm getting this setup in a few years (once I'm back home)

SF GP Home  (mains)
SF Solo Home (center)
SF GP (rears)

BTW, the May 2002 issue of SGHT reviewed SF GP Home/Solo/Wall (almost a reprise of their review about 2 years ago)

TIA!

[levi]

Hey pareng Lev, thanks for the invite to this forum! Konting pasensya pa sakin pare, until I finalize my purchases na lang tapos hindi na kita muna kukulitin ulit. Thanks for your evocations dude. I really appreciate it.  

Pare congrats and no problemo. Finally nakabili ka na din ng Marantz and your very happy with it. At least you followed my advise to stretch your budget and get a better model. It will make you happy for a long time rather than getting something cheaper but you will regret for a long time. If you need help just call me.

[levi]

Racio,
     Denon or Marantz? I think it is a very close call. Between receivers within a related price range, you should look for the features, the aesthetics (whether you love it's looks) and sheer gut feeling. The sound quality between 2 receivers within the same price range is almost comparing apples with apples. I think there is a mere 5%-10% difference in sound quality and for most, it's a psychological difference.
     I also had the same dilemna last year when comparing the CDM1NT and Sonus Faber Concertino. It all boils down to which "characteristics" you prefer and suits your listening style. I for one chose the Sonus Faber Concertino but let your ears and eyes decide.

Characteristics :
CDM1NT : musical purity where there is almost a cleansing sound to it's clarity, more analytical, more detail, has deep soundstage and very open in the upper frequencies (NAUTILUS?). Suits LIVE, ACOUSTIC music.

Concertino : more emotional and involving sounding, less detail, openness in the mids. Suits vocal jazz and piano/violin led music.

       Im also selling my Sonus Faber Concertino if you are interested in an audition, PM me. Good luck on your search. Whichever speaker you purchase, you won't be dissapointed! Just my 2 cents.

Manila

Manila,

   I was able to test the tinos and concerto and I really like the sound. If  only I have the budget, I would also like to get the SF. I have one question about these speakers. Do they have enough bass for normal easy listening in a 30 sq meter room? I dont need powerful and deep bass but I dont want mid and highs only. Thanks

levi

[dvdfan]

Racio,

I wouldn't buy any electronics that do not have a service center and distributor in the Philippines. Amplifiers today are more complicated and needs a good service center to fix.

From what I know, Marantz used to be brought in by Philips but not anymore.

So, if ever Listening room sells marantz. It may be coming from the gray market.

thanks!

[maximusmeridius]

Racio,

I think the new Harman Series (7500, 5500, 4500, etc.)is not yet available locally.  Perhaps in a few months???

The Harman receiver that is in your price range is the AVR5000.  I think its Suggested Retail Price is P36,500.  It is still 5.1 unlike the Marantz and the Denon which are already 6.1.  But when do we stop adding channels?  It's really a marketing ploy in my opinion.  Next year, i'm sure the "in" thing will be 7.1 or 8.1.

Regarding their power rating, I'm not sure if Marantz's 105watts is for 1khz or for 20-20khz.  H/K is rated at 70watts while the Denon at 90watts, both for 20-20Khz.  However, H/K receivers take pride in their High Current capablitiy.  The H/K AVR5000 produces a whopping 45 amperes.  

I'm not sure how much the AVR7000 sells, perhaps it's in the 50s.

I have no comment on the similiraties of Marantz and H/K receivers as I have not personally compared their internals.

Oh, to listen to the H/K AVR5000, call Architectural Audio at 811-6715.  They are located in the New World Hotel.

Good luck.

[Racio]

Striderhiryu1,

It was at Mega. I’m getting the Tinos from them for P35T and the Solos for P25T, but this is only at 15% discount. I can’t recall the list price on the GPs. I guess I was simply overwhelmed by the Tinos that I forgot to ask.

I think I’m getting a little rusty in haggling for prices since you mentioned that they can still go lower at 20% discount, thanks for the info dude, I’m going to play hardball with them this time around when I pickup my speakers on Tuesday.  

I’ll surely grab an issue of that magazine. I often get to read the reviews on the net. There are actually a lot of professional reviews out there, sorta reprints from magazines themselves. E-coustics.com is a good source.

- Racio

[Racio]

dvdfan,

Yup, it’s grey market alright. I’m pretty aware of the risks involved. But for what it’s worth, I asked Oliver’s supplier a guarantee that if there’s any defect on the Marantz that might come up for the next twelve months, he would give me a clean swap of the same model but with a brand new one. Let’s hope he’s true to his word. Anyway, I’ve known Oliver for years now, and he has never screwed me on a deal yet.  

- Racio

[dvdfan]

Racio,

Better  do a contract and let them sign it.  It is easy to sell and give you all the sales pitch but as soon as you buy and they can not service, the problem comes in... but why take the risk?

Since you are updating your system, better get a 6.1 channel receiver. The 6.1 is not a marketing ploy, it is simply audio technology getting better to recreate the true 360 surround system. Remember, that you can not recreate 360 degrees surround without having a back speaker.

7.1 is already available today with the Denon AVCA11SE.
My preference is the Denon over marantz primarily because it gets better reviews and is known for an amp that sounds good for both audio and video.

While your at it make sure you are going to buy a Dolby Prolig II..  Its WORTH IT!!!

[Racio]

maximusmeridius,

Thanks for the info dude. Yeah, Levi did mention to me the merits of the high amperage rating of the H/K receivers. I’ve read good reviews about this capability and for now, I can’t find fault in them except for their premium prices (w/c in effect justifies its cost). Although I already own a Marantz SR6200, I still feel that I need to listen to the H/Ks just to have a somewhat baseline for comparison’s sake (so a trip back to Makati must be in order then). I actually prefer their black/silver finish over the gold -only option finish of the Marantz and Denons. The black finish is not available locally except for the Onkyo’s (I think).

The multiple channels thing does seem to be a never ending issue and I also find it to be bordering on futility. But I think we’re reaching its peak already from what I read.

Actually, I banked on the Marantz 6200 due to the 6.1 capability among its other features (having the most bang-for-buck was the biggest factor). In fact, I’m still at 5.1 and I don’t intend to go 6.1 until I get to have a larger listening room. That’ll be a year or so from now if I’m lucky. When that time does come, what I eventually plan to do is reduce the Marantz avr to a pre-amplifier only and hook it up to a proper amplifier, preferably with a higher output (hopefully a used 200Wx6 amplifier if I can find one… it’s still free to dream right?   ).

Later then,
- Racio

[Racio]

dvdfan,

Well dude, I actually made them write the guarantee on my receipt, not in so many words though.  

The Marantz is in fact a 6.1 channel avr and does have DPL2 decoder capability. Furthermore, it has SRS “Circle Surround” w/c some reviewers' claim to be a lot better than DPL2. Interesting huh?  

Perhaps when Oliver Pe and his brother Jeff would carry the new Denon receivers again, (they have the really old ones in stock) we could expect them to perform a head-to-head test using the least variables for us.  

Thanks for your input.
- Racio

[striderhiryu1]

Racio - the 20% off was during a mall wide sale (and on the olders SF Concerto models) or something so I think the 15% discount is normal  (same with the parksquare branch).  And that was 2 years ago when the US$ 1 = PhP40.

I remember during the demo that the SF GP was driven by a very good amp (forgot the model) so you may want to audition this first with the amp you're tring to match them with.

good luck!

[Racio]

Oh...2 years ago huh. Right, it was at only P40=$1 then....  

Since I already have the Marantz SR6200 with me, I'm bound to do the audition with the Sonus.

Thanks! - Racio  

[symon]

Hello, I'd like to know your comments on which is the better receiver: the Denon AVR-2802 or the Yamaha RX-V530. I think both are in the same level (price and features wise). Someone told me that the Yamaha is better for audio (music) while Denon is better for HT.

[manila]

Manila,

   I was able to test the tinos and concerto and I really like the sound. If  only I have the budget, I would also like to get the SF. I have one question about these speakers. Do they have enough bass for normal easy listening in a 30 sq meter room? I dont need powerful and deep bass but I dont want mid and highs only. Thanks

levi

Levi,
    A 30 sq mtr room is fairly reasonable for a Concertino. For easy listening, the Concertino sounds full and without a back to back comparo with a floorstander, you will be hard pressed finding the lack in bass a flaw. One other thing the frequency of a concertino goes down to 50hz add another 5hz or lower depending on the room interaction. The lowest note on a bass stringed guitar goes down to 50hz.
    More than not, you will hear frequencies around the 40hz but of course at say a -3db or more. anything below that might not be audible on the Concertino but to whoever is familiar with sub bass frequencies 35hz and below would tell you it is a mere perception unless boosted.
    I am not saying floorstanders are worthless, a full range floorstander will give you the lowest notes on PIPE ORGANS etc. But a person listening to a good bookshelf speaker like the Concertino will find it sounding adequately full unless all-out bass and decibels are required. Also, when you have heard of the Concertino with vocals, piano and strings, you will all but forget the weaknesses and get emotionally involved with the music itself. Just my 2 cents..

Manila

[Furry]

Symon, from what i know, the price of Denon 2802 is much, much higher than the RX-V530. (more than 10k difference) You should consider that too There are Yammie lovers here as well as Denon but it will be entirely up to you. I really had a hard time deciding between Denon and Yammie but I have no regrets with the denon 1802. I may not have 6.1 but i won't probably need the rear center channel 'coz of space constraints in the room. Good luck on your choice! The RX-V530 seems a good buy though

[levi]

Manila,

   Thanks for the info. I guess its one of my future prospect for a separate stereo setup. I just want a full sound from a single pair of speaker.

[levi]

Hello, I'd like to know your comments on which is the better receiver: the Denon AVR-2802 or the Yamaha RX-V530. I think both are in the same level (price and features wise). Someone told me that the Yamaha is better for audio (music) while Denon is better for HT.

Hello Symon,

   I think the counterpart of Yammie 530 is Denon 1802. You could try Electronics Depot, they carry both brand so you can make a side by side comparison. Know what you need like Inputs,DSP, Processing, power, looks, service, Price, speaker matching, etc. Just my 1 cent.

levi

[Racio]

Symon,

Well, I was in the same boat just a couple of weeks ago. I learned of the pending new wave of Yammies coming in so I researched a bit in anticipation.

However, I must point out that you’re not exactly right on the money here. Perhaps you’re referring to the Denon 1802 rather than the 2802. Reason being is that the avr1802 and rxv530 are in the PHP23-26T range, while the avr2802’s are going for around PHP39T. Both the 1802 and the 530 are 5 channel avrs (75Wrms x 5 for the former and 65Wrms x 5 for the latter @ 8 ohms) so they should fit in nicely for a level comparison.  

I believe it’s the rxv730 which would be the closest competitor to the 2802. Unfortunately, the former won’t be available locally until a couple of months or so (this is what I’ve been told).  

There are no reviews yet available for the X30 Yams since they’re practically brand new on the market. I demoed the new Yams for only a short period at Listening Room last week. Since they have speakers hanging all around their shop, they can instantly set up a gear on a whim. Upon hearing them, it confirms my presupposition that they maintain to exhibit the same sonically dynamic characteristics as with the older generation they’ve replaced. This is actually very good for HT in most cinematic mediums but just so in stereo mode IMHO. In this respect I tend to side with the Denon’s when it comes to musicality where balance and a broad spectrum is high on the list.  

To be fair, please take this opinion with “tons” of salt given that it wasn’t really a decent audition on the new Yams. There are still too many variables and no proper baseline for comparison during my first encounter with them. Anyhow, on the brighter side, the 530's feature DTS-ES Matrix 6.1 (vs. 5.1 with the 1802) capability via “rear center phantom mode” (no need for a center rear driver...interesting indeed!)    .  Also, it has 6 inputs (vs. 5) for external signal processing (a "future proofing" feature). With 21 DSP modes and plus “Silent Cinema”, "Quad Field Cinema" and “Virtual Cinema” modes there’s no denying that this is an all out HT extravaganza that could drive a techie freak in tears.    

Hope this helps. - Racio

[symon]

Yup, thanks for the correction, it's the 1802 vs the 530. Thanks for the replies, I guess it's all up to the individual to audition the receivers (it's up to one's preferences). Thanks for all the info.

[levi]

Bringing this up for DVDfan

[tony_montana]

Hi Racio,

     Sorry the model you we're looking for are out of stock...

     I'll inform you as soon as it's available....

Can you help me find a buyer for Denon AVC - A1SR? I'll give you the best price... Thanks

-Tony_M

[Racio]

MARANTZ is coming out sooon!!!

42" PLASMA TV for 289K
6.1 CHANNEL AVR starting at 22K
5.1 DPL-II  starting at 14.9K!!!

42" Plasma for P289K? That's a "steal" compared to the Samsung's right? That sounds to be a perty interestin' deal yo got there partner! (giddyup)  

Unfortunately at 289 grand, I've to wait until I hit the lotto jackpot or 'til I suddenly get elected as congressman of QC,    at which point, it would definitely be in my very short "short list".  

[Racio]

Hi Racio,

     Sorry the model you we're looking for are out of stock...

     I'll inform you as soon as it's available....

Can you help me find a buyer for Denon AVC - A1SR? I'll give you the best price... Thanks

-Tony_M

That's okay. I'll call you back soon. Thanks! - Racio

[rtsy]

SF. I have one question about these speakers. Do they have enough bass for normal easy listening in a 30 sq meter room? I dont need powerful and deep bass but I dont want mid and highs only. Thanks

Levi,

I have the 'Tinos.  Keep 'em close to the rear wall (no more than 3 ft) and each other (no more than 7-8ft) and you will be rewarded with decent bass...not the ones you need for techno, big band, and really large orchestras, but for my type of music (jazz vocals, some pop, some rock, quartet/quintet classicals) it's more than enough.

Surf through Audio Asylum and look for posts made by Hyperion.  He's a Pinoy Sonus Faber meister.  Read his posts about SF set-up carefully.  And try to ignore his posts on matching components for the SF or else like me, you'll end up dreaming of stuff you cannot afford (e.g., Conrad johnson tube amps, Audio Note silver speaker cables, Naim, etc.).  ;-)

[killer_eyes]

question lang po

which one is better? considering almost the same price
yamaha 430 or denon avr682? im planning to buy this week end tnx

[hyperion]

Hey Russ!

LTNS! aw shucks ... pinu-plug mo pala ako rito hehehe. Ey, musta ka na? I got a REL sub!