Author Topic: Non-Catholic  (Read 71732 times)

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Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #150 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 01:08 AM »
Colossians 2

1 I want you to know how much I am struggling for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally.

2 My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ,

3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.

5 For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how orderly you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.

6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,

7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ,

12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

The book of Colossians 2 was written by Paul while in prison in Rome. Though Paul had never visited Colossae, the church who was founded by Epaphras from Paul's missionary travels, was infiltrated by people attempting to combine paganism and secular philosophy with christian doctrine.  Paul confronts these false teachings in his letters and affirms sufficiency in Christ.

Offline barrister

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #151 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 01:41 AM »
Galatians 5:1 states that we Christian believes in Christ have a total liberty from the law. We are now in the age of grace.

Collosians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

since we are now in the age of grace let no man judge us according to what we eat or drink, or whether we observed the sabbath day...

Yes, we are at liberty from the law of Moses. But we are not at liberty from the law for Christians.  That's how the verses should be understood.

Christians were commanded to abstain from blood.  Yet you say it's ok to eat blood.  That doesn't make sense.


and if that freedom of ours will cause others to stumble in theri faith then we have a choice to limit that freedom thus not eating some food particularly food offered/sacrificed to idol, blood, etc...

instruction in Acts 15 regarding "abstaining from specific foods" simply means that

"The church leaders were exhorting the new Gentile believers to make a clean break from their old lifestyles and not offend their Jewish brothers and sisters in the church.
The instructions were not intended to guarantee salvation but to promote peace within the early church. <quoted>"

So you are saying that the Gentile Christians were prohibited from eating blood so as not to offend the Jews who became Christians?

Why prohibit only 3 foods? Dapat bawal din ang pork, hito, pusit, hipon, etc. Di ba ayaw maka-offend ng Jews? E di dapat bawal din lahat.

You missed the point of Acts 15.


===================================



Ganito ang scenario prior to Acts 15:

The Jews who became Christians believed that the Gentiles who became Christians should also follow all Jewish law.

Thus, they insisted that the first step for Gentiles to become Christians should also be the first step to become a Jew, namely, circumcision.

The question now is, should Gentiles be circumcised first before they become Christians?

Now we go to Acts 15.

Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts 15:1-5)


Now we are at the Council of Jerusalem to resolve the question. They debated the issue, then Peter, Barnabas and Paul speak:

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.
(v. 6-12)


Peter scolded the Jews for forcing the Jewish yoke on the Gentiles. Peter's view is that salvation is by faith, through the grace of our Lord, and not by works of Jewish law. Following the laws of Moses does not give us salvation. Therefore, both Jews and Gentiles are saved by faith through grace, equally and without discrimination.

Then here comes the decision of the Council, announced by James:

19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The reason? So as not to make it difficult for Gentiles who are turning to God. Why require Gentiles to follow laws that will not give them salvation anyway?

The next step of the apostles was to send news of the Council's decision to the other Gentiles.

So they chose Paul and Barnabas to send a letter:

22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.

24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.


Farewell. (v. 22-29)

The letter announces the Council's decision to the other Gentiles.

The reason for the decision? So as not to make it difficult for Gentiles who are turning to God.  It was for the benefit of the Gentiles, not the Jews.

Meron bang sinasabi diyan na ang reason ay for the benefit of the Jews, para hindi ma-offend ang Jews?

You are adding meaning that is not there.
 
 
==================================
 
 
Answer these questions and the deeper understanding will make it clearer:
 
Related questions:

Bakit bawal sa Kristyano ang kumain ng dugo?

Ano ang ibig sabihin ng: (a) pagkain na inalay sa diyos-diyosan, at (b) hayop na binigti?
« Last Edit: Jul 29, 2015 at 01:58 AM by barrister »

Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #152 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 02:37 AM »
kaya iyon lang ang pinagbawal ng council dahil sa isa ito sa mga practice na madalas ginagawa ng mga Gentiles/pagan - feast, fiestas, festivals, na kung saan laging may kainan..... those practices are closely related to idolatry - eating blood/etrangled animals/food sacrifice to idol/sexual immorality... and take note... this council na bumuo ng ganoong instruction para sa mga Gentiles ay hindi pa kasali dito sa Paul which i believe hindi approve sa instruction na iyon (I Corinthians) but paul gladly received the instructions. Paul also the one teaches that circumsion have no bearing in terms of salvation.

these instruction just only shows that despite being free from law some of us still remain religious (clinging to tradition passed unto us)... so these instruction was made to settle some differences between Gentiles and Jews Christians...

Paul specifically says that if eating of these foods will cause borhters or newly converts to stumble (doubt) then better not eat them... pero walang nagsabi na sinful ang kumain ng blood sa new testament... it is an instruction by the jerusalem council to the Gentiles christian...

sabi pa nga ni Paul kung naimbitahan tayong kumain sa isang pagan feast just eat without asking for your consience sakes... kahit alam mo naman na madalas may dugo ang kakainin mo kasi its a pagan feast...

There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline tony

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #153 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 04:49 AM »
Boss Tony, mismo yang phrases na yan ang still and forever will be my Belief....as I've said before am not a devout one but those phrases are the pillars of my Faith.

Speaking of Dinuguan meron ako kakilala....INC pero their family business is a well known resto and one of their specialties are  Gotong Batangas (soup made of coagulated blood and internal part of beef)  and dinuguan hehehehe.

it took 85 years before the new testament of the bible was written,
by then the powers that be had a lot to say about how the book was to be written...
meanwhile between those times, Peter and the other disciples already had established their ministries...

it saddens me to see these Johnny come lately'es preach as if they knew....
surely they can recite the bible verbatim....
but the RC is rich with traditions and practices already in place....
even before the new testament was written down....
of course some of those practices are what may be called questionable....
but they are practices not doctrines....
but as long as we do not lose sight of the basic doctrines by which the Church was established,
then nasa tuwid na daan na tayo...
« Last Edit: Jul 29, 2015 at 04:57 AM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tony

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #154 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 04:54 AM »
kaya iyon lang ang pinagbawal ng council dahil sa isa ito sa mga practice na madalas ginagawa ng mga Gentiles/pagan - feast, fiestas, festivals, na kung saan laging may kainan..... those practices are closely related to idolatry - eating blood/etrangled animals/food sacrifice to idol/sexual immorality... and take note... this council na bumuo ng ganoong instruction para sa mga Gentiles ay hindi pa kasali dito sa Paul which i believe hindi approve sa instruction na iyon (I Corinthians) but paul gladly received the instructions. Paul also the one teaches that circumsion have no bearing in terms of salvation.

these instruction just only shows that despite being free from law some of us still remain religious (clinging to tradition passed unto us)... so these instruction was made to settle some differences between Gentiles and Jews Christians...

Paul specifically says that if eating of these foods will cause borhters or newly converts to stumble (doubt) then better not eat them... pero walang nagsabi na sinful ang kumain ng blood sa new testament... it is an instruction by the jerusalem council to the Gentiles christian...

sabi pa nga ni Paul kung naimbitahan tayong kumain sa isang pagan feast just eat without asking for your consience sakes... kahit alam mo naman na madalas may dugo ang kakainin mo kasi its a pagan feast...



amen, praise God....

hindi nga naman ang pumapasok sa bibig mo ang nakasasama,
bagkus ang lumalabas sa bibig mo sapagkat nanggagaling sa puso...
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline AppleMan

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #155 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 05:36 AM »
The question is ang DUGO ba ay PAGKAIN ? ANg UTOS huwag kakain ng DUGO kapag sinabi bang HUWAG eh hindi BAWAL ?
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Offline sovrain

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #156 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 08:08 AM »
Madugo pala ang usapang dinuguan ;D andami ko na tuloy i backread sa tanong ko ;D ;D pero yung dinuguan na pato(duck) (not the itik)....masarap talaga.. ;D
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Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #157 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 08:35 AM »
Ano kaya mangyayari dun sa mga "Kristyano" na patuloy kumakain ng dinuguan? Mapupunta kaya kami sa langit? ;D

Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #158 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 08:48 AM »
Ano kaya mangyayari dun sa mga "Kristyano" na patuloy kumakain ng dinuguan? Mapupunta kaya kami sa langit? ;D

Good news is salvation doesnt depend on what we eat, or drink, or whether we observed not the holidays/sabbath days... :):):)
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline sovrain

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #159 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 09:28 AM »
Ano kaya mangyayari dun sa mga "Kristyano" na patuloy kumakain ng dinuguan? Mapupunta kaya kami sa langit? ;D
;D ;D ;D
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Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #160 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 09:41 AM »
Good news is salvation doesnt depend on what we eat, or drink, or whether we observed not the holidays/sabbath days... :):):)

Talaga? E, bakit pa ipinagbawal, no bearing naman pala? O baka naman merong special place sa langit yung mga masunurin?

Offline pekspert

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #161 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 09:53 AM »
 
Ano kaya mangyayari dun sa mga "Kristyano" na patuloy kumakain ng dinuguan? Mapupunta kaya kami sa langit? ;D
hindi mapupunta ka sa ER ;D ;D
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Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #162 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 10:45 AM »
Talaga? E, bakit pa ipinagbawal, no bearing naman pala? O baka naman merong special place sa langit yung mga masunurin?

Even good works (example: pagiging masunurin) have no part when it comes to salvation. :)
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #163 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 10:48 AM »
Even good works (example: pagiging masunurin) have no part when it comes to salvation. :)

Really? So, marami ka palang LGBT makikita sa langit? :)

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #164 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 10:56 AM »
Really? So, marami ka palang LGBT makikita sa langit? :)

well i believed that if you are a true Christian you will stop practicing homosexuality... and yes... all (including homosexual) can go to heaven... wala naman sinasabi sa Bibliya na dahil sa homosexual ka, o heterosexual, o makasalanan ka ay di ka na pupunta sa langit... remember ibinigay ni Jesus ang kanyang buhay para sa ating mga makasalanan :):):)


pahabol: kung good works lang naman ang pag-uusapan well lahat ng tao ay walang pag-asang makapunta sa langit.
« Last Edit: Jul 29, 2015 at 11:00 AM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline barrister

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #165 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 10:58 AM »
The question is ang DUGO ba ay PAGKAIN ? ANg UTOS huwag kakain ng DUGO kapag sinabi bang HUWAG eh hindi BAWAL ?

Tama rin yan.

Ang mga Israelites, hindi tinuturing na food ang dugo. 

Kaya pag sinabing nilinis na lahat ng pagkain, hindi kasama doon ang dugo, kasi hindi nga pagkain ang dugo.
« Last Edit: Jul 29, 2015 at 11:06 AM by barrister »

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #166 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 11:24 AM »
well i believed that if you are a true Christian you will stop practicing homosexuality... and yes... all (including homosexual) can go to heaven... wala naman sinasabi sa Bibliya na dahil sa homosexual ka, o heterosexual, o makasalanan ka ay di ka na pupunta sa langit... remember ibinigay ni Jesus ang kanyang buhay para sa ating mga makasalanan :):):)


pahabol: kung good works lang naman ang pag-uusapan well lahat ng tao ay walang pag-asang makapunta sa langit.


Yun naman pala e. E bakit pinipilit mo pang magbago ang LGBT, mapupunta rin naman pala sa langit :)

Offline tony

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #167 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 11:41 AM »
^maraming ganyan na, pagkatapos magpatanggal ng
genitals na pang lalake at nagpaka bakla,
aba eh hinipo ng holy sprit at ngayon straght na ulit,
wala na nga lang instrumento...
maramng ganyang kuwento.....
sana si Klaus hipuin ng Holy spirit....
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #168 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 11:43 AM »
Yun naman pala e. E bakit pinipilit mo pang magbago ang LGBT, mapupunta rin naman pala sa langit :)

isa sa katibayan na tayo ay tunay na pupunta sa langit ay ang pagbabago ng ating buhay... di ba sabi ko kanina sa post... kung totoong Kristiyano ang isang tao hindi siya mananatiling gumawa ng kasalanan... hindi siya mananatili sa paulit ulit na kasalanan... merong pagbabago sa kanyang buhay...

pero huwag nating kalimutan na porket napakabuti ng isang tao ay siguradong sa langit siya pupunta hindi ganoon iyon...

saka isa ang lahat ay may pagkakataong magbago... kasi sinasabi ng iba wala na daw pag-asang magbago kasi ganoon na talaga daw sila... hindi ganoon iyon... anumang bagay na mali ay maaaring itama...
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #169 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 12:08 PM »
isa sa katibayan na tayo ay tunay na pupunta sa langit ay ang pagbabago ng ating buhay... di ba sabi ko kanina sa post... kung totoong Kristiyano ang isang tao hindi siya mananatiling gumawa ng kasalanan... hindi siya mananatili sa paulit ulit na kasalanan... merong pagbabago sa kanyang buhay...

pero huwag nating kalimutan na porket napakabuti ng isang tao ay siguradong sa langit siya pupunta hindi ganoon iyon...

saka isa ang lahat ay may pagkakataong magbago... kasi sinasabi ng iba wala na daw pag-asang magbago kasi ganoon na talaga daw sila... hindi ganoon iyon... anumang bagay na mali ay maaaring itama...

Pinapagulo mo naman e :) Oo at hindi lang. Gay, hindi nagbago, namatay. Langit ba o hindi?

Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #170 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 12:18 PM »
Not only for gays but this applies to everyone... If that person is a true christian then he/she ir going to heaven.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline tony

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #171 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 12:25 PM »
^walang makapagsasabi nyan, it is between the gay and his God...
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #172 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 12:33 PM »
^walang makapagsasabi nyan, it is between the gay and his God...

Tama yan... And we can only tell if a person have genuine faith is by his/her work or by his/ her testimonies.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline tony

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #173 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 12:45 PM »
Only God knows what is in our heart of hearts.....
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline barrister

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #174 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 01:11 PM »
Only God knows what is in our heart of hearts.....

That's correct.
 
It's ok to speak in general as to who will not go to heaven.  For example:
 
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor. 6:9-10)
 
But it's not right to say specifically, "I will go to heaven; you will go to hell," because only God knows the answer to that specific issue. 
 
Iba kasi ang judgment ng Diyos sa judgment ng tao. 
 
Sa batas ng tao, ignorance of the law excuses no one from compliance therewith.  Bakit?  Kasi kung puwedeng excuse ang ignorance, e di lahat na lang sasabihin na hindi niya alam na bawal.  Hindi na malaman ng judge kung totoo yon o nagsisinungaling lang ang accused, kasi hindi naman mind-reader ang judge.
 
Pero sa batas ng Diyos, ignorance of the law is an excuse.  Bakit?  Kasi alam ng Diyos ang iniisip natin, hindi katulad ng judge na tao.  Alam din ng Diyos kung in good conscience na hindi mo alam ang batas Niya, o sinasadya mo lang na huwag alamin para ka makalusot.
 
Kaya kung ang tanong, itong bading na ito, makakarating ba siya sa langit?  Ang tamang sagot ay "Ewan ko, Diyos lang ang nakakaalam."
« Last Edit: Jul 29, 2015 at 01:14 PM by barrister »

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #175 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 01:17 PM »
^Di ba atty may verse sa Bible na "no laws, no sin" principle?

kaya kahit di nakilala si Kristo because of location and time  (early Filipinos before the Bible became known here) can be saved according to the laws of their hearts (conscience)

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #176 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 01:29 PM »
Not only for gays but this applies to everyone... If that person is a true christian then he/she ir going to heaven.

Pinagulo mo na naman e : Gay, Kristyano, nagsisimba. Merong bf o partner. Namatay. Pupunta ba sa langit?

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #177 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 01:37 PM »
Pinagulo mo na naman e : Gay, Kristyano, nagsisimba. Merong bf o partner. Namatay. Pupunta ba sa langit?

kung ako ang Diyos oo, mas dadalhin ko pa sa impyerno yung:

Straight, nagsisimba, naglilimos sa pulubi pero pag may birthday nagvivideoke hanggang madaling arawsa typical neighborhood set-up.
« Last Edit: Jul 29, 2015 at 01:38 PM by Quitacet »

Offline oweidah

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #178 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 03:33 PM »
ano ba TRUE christian na pupunta sa langit?
ayan na naman ang exclusivity...kami lang ang may K
=away gyera

Offline rascal101

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #179 on: Jul 29, 2015 at 03:38 PM »
kung ako ang Diyos oo, mas dadalhin ko pa sa impyerno yung:

Straight, nagsisimba, naglilimos sa pulubi pero pag may birthday nagvivideoke hanggang madaling arawsa typical neighborhood set-up.

Mahirap sabihin ang mga bagay na hindi puwedeng mangyari.