Topic: NCAA / UAAP 2015

[SiCkBoY]

So brader, you find nothing wrong when say, Danding Cojuangco directly gives money to a HS player and his dependents, so as to influence the player to commit to play for the DLSU Seniors?

That's like vote-buying. What do we always say when it comes to vote buying? Take the money, but vote as you will. Mali ba ang voter if he does that?

[DVD_Freak]

One professor said to the class, "We professors cannot prevent you from graduating. We can only delay."

So diplomas are already a "given".

It depends on the personal stand of the professor in that matter. That has nothing to do with the school, based on what I've seen.

Do these professors also give the same concession/consideration to all students? Meaning wrongfully pass them as well?

May compensation/renumeration pa rin, just not in monetary form but in the form of quality education.

But remuneration is in monetary form.  Remuneration is not quality education.

[newwaveboy]

That's like vote-buying. What do we always say when it comes to vote buying? Take the money, but vote as you will. Mali ba ang voter if he does that?

So, you do find it unethical (or illegal) as well ...... like me, like many in the thread and like the US NCAA and many other countries.

As to vote-buying, I don't even care if the vote-seller even votes (or not) for the one who paid him - the mere fact that he/she accepted money during elections isn't right for me.

[SiCkBoY]

So diplomas are already a "given".

Unless you get kicked out, wala naman age limit sa pag aaral.

Do these professors also give the same concession/consideration to all students? Meaning wrongfully pass them as well?

Again, it's a personal stand of each professor, not a school policy.

But remuneration is in monetary form.  Remuneration is not quality education.

Well, just delete renumeration from what I said.

[DVD_Freak]

Nung college, wala akong maalala. They don't even check for attendance.

Meron pa rin attendance according to the DLSU handbook....

2.6.
Students render themselves ineligible for a passing grade in a given
course for the trimester if they are absent from class for more than
two and a half times the number of class meetings in a week, such
as: more than 12 1/2 times in a class meeting five times a week;
more than 10 times for a class meeting four times a week; more
than 7 1/2 times for a class meeting thrice a week; more than five
times for a class meeting twice a week; more than 2 1/2 for a class
meeting once a week.

[DVD_Freak]

Unless you get kicked out, wala naman age limit sa pag aaral.

Meron na ba na kick out sa DLSU na heavily recruited player in the school's history?

Again, it's a personal stand of each professor, not a school policy.

So there's double standard for star athletes and normal students then as far as professors are concerned... meaning "unofficial" double standard.

Well, just delete remuneration from what I said.

Kaso my point is specifically and particularly remuneration.

[SiCkBoY]

^Pero wala naman sweldo si Kobe Paras. Pinag aral lang sya.

[SiCkBoY]

I really just don't understand why putting a kid on a scholarship to groom him to join a preferred school is unethical or unfair.

If unethical, which ethical boundaries are violated? If unfair, who are the aggrieved parties?

[newwaveboy]

^Pero wala naman sweldo si Kobe Paras. Pinag aral lang sya.

No offense bro, I don't think that Danding Cojuangco will only provide tuition money to Kobe & Andre Paras. 

[SiCkBoY]

No offense bro, I don't think that Danding Cojuangco will only provide tuition money to Kobe & Andre Paras.

But that's not based on fact, and we can't just keep on assuming that everyone is corrupt. At least the scholarship was admitted. So if we base everything on facts, is it still unethical? Unfair?

[steelcrazy]

Let's face it. Those young talents needed funds to develop them into better athletes.

Kung si Michael Christian Martinez announced in public that he needed private sponsorships to continue his training in the field of ice skating since the gov't has no funds to help him out even if he will represent the entire Philippines in all his international competitions.
Nobody cared except SM since they needed Micheal to promote their ice skating arenas.

Now if any of your talented young sons or daughters who will be noticed as having the potentials of making it big in the future are being offered financial assistances, scholarships and sponsorships by tycoons for the cause of developing and polishing those talents and in return promoting them, will you not agree?
Of course being elders, everybody wants a bright future for his and her off springs so if the opportunities are being offered there's no reason not to grab the best offer of them all.

[leomarley]

Nung college, wala akong maalala. They don't even check for attendance.

May limit. Naaalala ko noon sa UST hanggang 3 absences lang pwede or else incomplete.

[newwaveboy]

But that's not based on fact, and we can't just keep on assuming that everyone is corrupt. At least the scholarship was admitted. So if we base everything on facts, is it still unethical? Unfair?

Yup, even if it's just the tuition fee itself, services or any benefit that will cause influence or lead the recruit to a preferred school - is considered unethical and illegal by the US NCAA ....... it should be the same here.

[DVD_Freak]

Let's face it. Those young talents needed funds to develop them into better athletes.

Kung si Michael Christian Martinez announced in public that he needed private sponsorships to continue his training in the field of ice skating since the gov't has no funds to help him out even if he will represent the entire Philippines in all his international competitions.
Nobody cared except SM since they needed Micheal to promote their ice skating arenas.

Now if any of your talented young sons or daughters who will be noticed as having the potentials of making it big in the future are being offered financial assistances, scholarships and sponsorships by tycoons for the cause of developing and polishing those talents and in return promoting them, will you not agree?
Of course being elders, everybody wants a bright future for his and her off springs so if the opportunities are being offered there's no reason not to grab the best offer of them all.

I don't think receiving around P60K in monthly "allowances" counts as funds to develop them into better athletes.  Correct me if I am wrong, yun P60k na yun ginagamit yan on everything and zero ang napupunta to develop them into better athletes.  Pwede siguro sa cell phones, laptops, gadgets....dates na rin siguro.     Yun case ni Michael Christian Martinez totoo na siguro napupunta na yun sa training niya.  Malamang reimbursement method yun or yun check ng sponsor niya nakapangalan dun sa kailangan niya for training. 

Of course no parent naman will deny if someone will sponsor everything para sa child mo through athletics.  Biruin mo.... may condo na, may P60K monthly, may kotse pa, hindi na kailangan pumasok sa school at sigurado nang may diploma ka.     Wala nang paghihirapan pa!  San ka pa!  And there's nothing inherently wrong with that?  Bale wala na yun tinuturo ng mga magulang natin na kailangan paghirapan natin ang lahat ng gusto nating makamit. 

[SiCkBoY]

Yup, even if it's just the tuition fee itself, services or any benefit that will cause influence or lead the recruit to a preferred school - is considered unethical and illegal by the US NCAA ....... it should be the same here.

This is what I want to understand. We can't just say that it's unethical in the US NCAA ergo, it should also be unethical here. The circumstances and environment in the US could be totally different and their reasons for disallowing such sponsorships may be totally inapplicable here.

[newwaveboy]

Simply put, the right thing shouldn't be limited by boundaries ...... it's unethical everywhere, but it's only illegal when the governing bodies acts on it.

The US NCAA chose to put strict rules regarding recruitment - the main rule is clear; HS recruits aren't supposed to be swayed by anyone affiliated with any school, via money, benefits, services, etc. 

The rules may not be totally effective, (heck, there are still violators even to this day), but the attempt to create a LEVEL PLAYING field is there.

Here's a very recent Charles Barkley interview regarding NCAA recruitment - Sir Charles might have some conflicting opinions on the rules (he admits to receiving cash as a HS player), but he acknowledges the presence of such rules in the NCAA.

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/charles-barkley-got-money-under-110000328.html

[steelcrazy]

I don't think receiving around P60K in monthly "allowances" counts as funds to develop them into better athletes.  Correct me if I am wrong, yun P60k na yun ginagamit yan on everything and zero ang napupunta to develop them into better athletes.  Pwede siguro sa cell phones, laptops, gadgets....dates na rin siguro.     Yun case ni Michael Christian Martinez totoo na siguro napupunta na yun sa training niya.  Malamang reimbursement method yun or yun check ng sponsor niya nakapangalan dun sa kailangan niya for training. 

Of course no parent naman will deny if someone will sponsor everything para sa child mo through athletics.  Biruin mo.... may condo na, may P60K monthly, may kotse pa, hindi na kailangan pumasok sa school at sigurado nang may diploma ka.     Wala nang paghihirapan pa!  San ka pa!  And there's nothing inherently wrong with that?  Bale wala na yun tinuturo ng mga magulang natin na kailangan paghirapan natin ang lahat ng gusto nating makamit. 

I'm sure before one is offered that huge amount of sponsorship eh pinaghirapan na ng bata para mapansin sya at hangaan.
Now after one receives that kind of sponsorship, one has to work double hard in order to live up to the expectations of the sponsors.
Hindi rin madali ang magsponsor. It's like gambling coz one cannot be sure everything will turn out right.

[DVD_Freak]

I'm sure before one is offered that huge amount of sponsorship eh pinaghirapan na ng bata para mapansin sya at hangaan.
Now after one receives that kind of sponsorship, one has to work double hard in order to live up to the expectations of the sponsors.
Hindi rin madali ang magsponsor. It's like gambling coz one cannot be sure everything will turn out right.

While high school students do dream of making it in the PBA, never pa yata nasa consciousness ng bata ang "kumita" ng pera in exchange for playing basketball. It's more of the parents yata who negotiate with a school's patron. When these kids play, they play for the love of the game and the admiration of fans plus generally being popular.  I don't think these 15, 16 year olds work hard para mabigyan ng condo, car, a monthly of P60K and an automatic diploma even w/o studying.  Kung aalukin mo nga naman ng ganun, sinisilaw mo ng maaga sa mga materialistic na bagay.

[leomarley]

ganito lang yung sa akin. if you are playing in an amateur league, then you're not supposed to take favors and payments for your services.

[mattia]

^ All points are valid, especially on values in accepting outrageous perks.

These, however, are not done to all players.  They are the exceptions to the rule. Just the Tengs, Ravenas, Bobby Ray Parks or just those who excel and have the potential to become star players.  The other lesser players receive, well, less. 

This is also to counter the possibility of falling prey to the game fixing syndicates.  The easiest to target are the skilled players who are poor and not well off and who don't get enough benefits from the school.  Again, madaming ganyan.  Some coaches I know are complaining.  May mga handlers yun mga "star" players nila. Very difficult to deal with since these players just want to get their daily meals, survive and help their poor families. When they get offered P50,000 para ihulog ang laro, what can they do?   They don't care about the future as all they want is to alleviate their current pathetic plight. 

Bottom line, pera para lang talaga lahat.  Secondary na yun pride and glory for the school.  Very sad indeed.

[steelcrazy]

^ All points are valid, especially on values in accepting outrageous perks.

These, however, are not done to all players.  They are the exceptions to the rule. Just the Tengs, Ravenas, Bobby Ray Parks or just those who excel and have the potential to become star players.  The other lesser players receive, well, less. 

This is also to counter the possibility of falling prey to the game fixing syndicates.  The easiest to target are the skilled players who are poor and not well off and who don't get enough benefits from the school.  Again, madaming ganyan.  Some coaches I know are complaining.  May mga handlers yun mga "star" players nila. Very difficult to deal with since these players just want to get their daily meals, survive and help their poor families. When they get offered P50,000 para ihulog ang laro, what can they do?   They don't care about the future as all they want is to alleviate their current pathetic plight. 

Bottom line, pera para lang talaga lahat.  Secondary na yun pride and glory for the school.  Very sad indeed.

In short just swallow the principles and be practical. Pag may dumating na grasya one should just take it bastat legal.

Actually those tycoons shed out lots of money to lure talents to represent and give glory to the establishments they own so I one is offered, then he is expected to give his best to promote it.

Just look at SM, they invested on NU and after some years of patience, they finally achieve what they want and that's to be #1 in UAAP basketball and even in the cheer dance they won back to back.
This is only the 1st step for NU to be recognized as one of the elite schools in the field of sports and I'm sure they will be aiming for education next and make NU one of the elite schools at par with Ateneo and DLSU.

[Oloap]

In short just swallow the principles and be practical. Pag may dumating na grasya one should just take it bastat legal.

Yes, and with this kind of thinking, of the general population not just of the players and their parents, it is no wonder that our country is going to the dogs. Evident in our elections.

Sorry for the OT.

[newwaveboy]

ganito lang yung sa akin. if you are playing in an amateur league, then you're not supposed to take favors and payments for your services.

+ 1TB

Taken from a Bleacher Report article (re: US NCAA recruitment violations) :

" College sports are sports at their purest level, without the addition of professional ego, pay for play ...... In a world littered with professional sports, it should be the desire of those at the collegiate level to keep this level pure"

[newwaveboy]

Yes, and with this kind of thinking, of the general population not just of the players and their parents, it is no wonder that our country is going to the dogs. Evident in our elections.

Sorry for the OT.

Well said ...... and do not apologize for OT, it's much relevant to the thread.

[SiCkBoY]

Yes, and with this kind of thinking, of the general population not just of the players and their parents, it is no wonder that our country is going to the dogs. Evident in our elections.

Sorry for the OT.

In logic, this argument is called "poisoning the well."

[steelcrazy]

In logic, this argument is called "poisoning the well."

Actually there's nothing to argue but just to accept the fact that both parties want to benefit from each other.
Products and establishments need endorsers and those endorsers can be as young as babies and as old as grannies.
The point is if there's an offer, AN IRRESISTABLE OFFER, who will ever decline and stick to his principles and end up with nothing?

Jeron Teng graduated from Xavier High, Xavier doesnt have a college and he needs to choose a school for college.
NU gave him an offer and so did DLSU which made the sweeter offer.
He and his family chose DLSU. Did they make the wrong choice?
Of course not since we all know playing and representing an elite school in DLSU is already a great honor.

Another example is Manny Pacquiao. KIA from no where made him an offer of being a playing coach in the PBA. Of course we all know Pacquiao doesnt have the knowledge and more the experience in pro basketball but he still grabbed that opportunity so what's wrong with that?

Bastat hindi illegal, take all you can agad.
Be practical.

[Verbl Kint]

Manny Pacquiao is a professional athlete.

Jeron Teng is a student and a minor.

[DVD_Freak]

In short just swallow the principles and be practical. Pag may dumating na grasya one should just take it bastat legal.

So never mind the principles basta may pera kuha agad.

Actually there's nothing to argue but just to accept the fact that both parties want to benefit from each other.

In other words.... gamitan.

The point is if there's an offer, AN IRRESISTABLE OFFER, who will ever decline and stick to his principles and end up with nothing?

So money is everything.

Bastat hindi illegal, take all you can agad.
Be practical.

Basta legal, pagkakitaan mo na as much as you can.



You mean there is nothing wrong with all of these?     I don't know ha!  Hehehe!  Parang to sum it all up.... pabayaan mo na yun prisipyo mo kung nagugutom ka naman.  So ibenta mo na yun sarili mong prisipyo at sulitin mo yun pagkakakitaan mo.  Essentially ibenta mo na yun kaluluwa mo in exchange naman mayaman ka or malaki ang kinita mo..... And I guess there's nothing wrong with that?   

[anya618]

2 Star Player ng UUAP, may silent rivalry; pakitang-tao lang ang pagkakaibigan?

sino kaya ito? 

[questforthegoodlife]

2 Star Player ng UUAP, may silent rivalry; pakitang-tao lang ang pagkakaibigan?

sino kaya ito? 

Kiefer and Jeron. Mama Teng has been trying to get better deals with advertisers for the Teng Brothers packaging them as a 2 for 1 deal sometimes just to get ahead of the other camp.