Topic: Question on the Holy Trinity

[bumblebee]

That's what I said. Nawala ako dun sa "sin-based". Pinapalabas mo kasi na for me, mutually exclusive yung common sense at "sin-based".

[jerix]

We believe that the "The Word" in the Bible is Jesus Christ.

John 1:1-14

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In verse 1, the Bible tells us that the Word (Jesus Christ) is God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Here in verse 2, it tells us that Jesus is the Creator

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

In verse 14, it tells us that Jesus the God the Creator become flesh.

Bro -- my problem with the cited verses is that I cannot read the answer to my question which is:

"The moment she conceived Jesus, what happened to that God the son whom that God the creator was talking to even before such an event? Was that God the son also flesh just like the one conceived  by Mary?"

[dpogs]

Its in verse 14, it become flesh.

[barrister]

I asked that because whether we like it or not, that cell on the womb of Mary was that God on the flesh and that God on the flesh whom God the creator was talking with before birth. He could not be different from that God on Mary's womb because if that was the case, there will be 4 Gods during the event.

God the Son became flesh.

It does not mean God the Son changed and became a man. It means the Son was manifested in the flesh.  God the Son only took the form of a man, but He is still by His very nature God the Son.

If an angel took the form of a man, the angel would still be an angel.  Only the form would be human, but the true nature remains an angel.  If you wear a lion costume, you wouldn't become a lion, you would still be a man.



The original Greek in John 1:14 says "egeneto."  It means to come into being or into manifestation.

Thus, 1 Tim. 3:16 clarifies:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The original Greek is "phaneroo," which means to appear or to make visible.

Therefore, 1 Tim. 3:16 says God the Son was "manifest" in the flesh, meaning He appeared to us as a man. 

It means God the Son merely appeared on earth as a human, but His nature remained God the Son.

That is why Col. 2:9 says: For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. The visible bodily form is human, but in Him is the fullness of the Deity.

Compare that with an ordinary man.  In the case of ordinary men, the visible bodily form is human, but in the body is still human, not God.  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? (1 Cor. 2:11)  In the ordinary man is the spirit of man, not the fullness of the Deity.



That is why Phil. 2:6-8 says about Christ:

Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.  And being found in appearance as a man,  he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!

- Christ is in His very nature God.

- He is equal to God, but He did not consider this equality as something to be used to His own advantage.

- He was made in human likeness.  Not a human, but only in the likeness of a human.  If He were already human, then He would by nature already appear human, so why would He still have to take human likeness?

- He was in the appearance of a man.  Not a man, but only in the appearance of a man.  A God would have to take the appearance of a man, because He is not a man in His very nature. 



He is God who took the appearance of a man and by doing so became "manifest in the flesh."

[Nelson de Leon]

Sir bumblebee, I think what they meant was, what causes you to repent and para kanino ang repentance. Ewan ko kung tama ang intindi ko.

[bumblebee]

Sir bumblebee, I think what they meant was, what causes you to repent and para kanino ang repentance. Ewan ko kung tama ang intindi ko.

Sir, obvious naman sagot dyan. I don't know what else they want, to be honest. If one does something bad, repent. Hindi ko naman siguro kailangan pa ng bible para malaman at maisagawa yan di ba?

[barrister]

Tama nga naman. 
 
Pinipilit lang nilang ipasok ang bibliya. 
 
For example, sinampal mo yung kapitbahay mo.  Later, you regret what you did, apologized to the neighbor, then never did it to anyone else again.
 
Ewan ko naman kung kailangan mo pa ng King James Version doon.

[dpogs]

The question kasi is how to be saved. Sabi niya "repent". When ask where he got the idea he said he never get it from anyone or anything it is common sense. So parang ang nagsabi sa kanya ng way ofs salvation is his common sense.

[barrister]

Kung ganon, dapat walang "salvation" sa usapan.  Otherwise, magkakaroon ng spiritual and religious aspect.
 
Saved from what? 
 
Does he believe that man has to be saved from anything?

[panzimus]

ang take ko sa argument ni bumblebee vs dpogs, pTrader at DVD_Freak na common-sense and Bible/God:
ang sinasabi ni bumblebee about repentance (or doing good) is based on morals. because this is the right thing to do. this is not based because you want to be saved or you want to be in heaven or you don't want to go to hell. it is purely because that's what his morals tell him. i myself like this thinking, you're doing good things without the fear of being punished but because this is the moral thing to do.

[panzimus]

and wala akong nabasa sa post ni bumblebee na kaya sya nagrerepent is para sa salvation

[dpogs]

and wala akong nabasa sa post ni bumblebee na kaya sya nagrerepent is para sa salvation

yes. he said "repent." then modified/edited it later.

ang take ko sa argument ni bumblebee vs dpogs, pTrader at DVD_Freak na common-sense and Bible/God:
ang sinasabi ni bumblebee about repentance (or doing good) is based on morals. because this is the right thing to do. this is not based because you want to be saved or you want to be in heaven or you don't want to go to hell. it is purely because that's what his morals tell him. i myself like this thinking, you're doing good things without the fear of being punished but because this is the moral thing to do.

and where is our moral based to? for some, stealing for survival is a moral thing to do. for some, having multiple sex partner is not morally wrong.

that is why I am asking him, where did he based his belief when it comes to way of salvation? common sense?

[DVD_Freak]

ang take ko sa argument ni bumblebee vs dpogs, pTrader at DVD_Freak na common-sense and Bible/God:
ang sinasabi ni bumblebee about repentance (or doing good) is based on morals. because this is the right thing to do. this is not based because you want to be saved or you want to be in heaven or you don't want to go to hell. it is purely because that's what his morals tell him. i myself like this thinking, you're doing good things without the fear of being punished but because this is the moral thing to do.

If that's the case, hindi na siya repentance.  By its very nature repentance is having regret or remorse for wrongdoing.  How can you repent if you did not do anything wrong and just doing what is right?

[panzimus]

yes. he said "repent." then modified/edited it later.

sinabi nga nya "repent" but di nya sinabi na repent "for salvation".

[panzimus]

Repent, not because you want to be saved, but because it's the right thing to do.

Sir, obvious naman sagot dyan. I don't know what else they want, to be honest. If one does something bad, repent. Hindi ko naman siguro kailangan pa ng bible para malaman at maisagawa yan di ba?

at ito naman yung sagot ni barrister about it:

Tama nga naman. 
 
Pinipilit lang nilang ipasok ang bibliya. 
 
For example, sinampal mo yung kapitbahay mo.  Later, you regret what you did, apologized to the neighbor, then never did it to anyone else again.
 
Ewan ko naman kung kailangan mo pa ng King James Version doon.

so nagrerepent si bumblebee sa mga wrong doings nya which i think is tama naman.

[DVD_Freak]

so nagrerepent si bumblebee sa mga wrong doings nya which i think is tama naman.

I think nag aasume ka na sir.  Hindi sinabi ni bumblebee na he is repenting sa mga wrongdoings niya.  Ang sabi niya in general hindi siya....

If one does something bad, repent. Hindi ko naman siguro kailangan pa ng bible para malaman at maisagawa yan di ba?

Hindi niya sinasabing siya.

Pero eto sabi niya sa sarili niya....

No. I repent because common sense tells me it's the right thing to do.

Hindi niya sinabing nagrerepent siya kasi may wrongdoing siya.

[dpogs]

sinabi nga nya "repent" but di nya sinabi na repent "for salvation".

when asked what a sinner can do to be saved: he said "repent."

when asked where he got that idea: he said "because of common sense".

[panzimus]

I think nag aasume ka na sir.  Hindi sinabi ni bumblebee na he is repenting sa mga wrongdoings niya.  Ang sabi niya in general hindi siya....
Hindi niya sinasabing siya.

Pero eto sabi niya sa sarili niya....
Hindi niya sinabing nagrerepent siya kasi may wrongdoing siya.

Sir, obvious naman sagot dyan. I don't know what else they want, to be honest. If one does something bad, repent. Hindi ko naman siguro kailangan pa ng bible para malaman at maisagawa yan di ba?

hindi pa ba yan yung repent sa wrongdoings? kailangan pa ba talaga sabihin specifically o ilagay specifically yung name nya or sabihin nya na "when I do something bad, I repent"? I just read between the lines and basing sa flow ng conversation. pero if you think I'm assuming, I respect your view. ang mas makakapagsabi naman talaga kung tama or mali "assumption" ko is si bumblebee.

[DVD_Freak]

hindi pa ba yan yung repent sa wrongdoings? kailangan pa ba talaga sabihin specifically o ilagay specifically yung name nya or sabihin nya na "when I do something bad, I repent"? I just read between the lines and basing sa flow ng conversation. pero if you think I'm assuming, I respect your view. ang mas makakapagsabi naman talaga kung tama or mali "assumption" ko is si bumblebee.

If you have the time to read his post....you'll see a pattern na never assume or jump to conclusions right away.   

[bumblebee]

The question kasi is how to be saved. Sabi niya "repent". When ask where he got the idea he said he never get it from anyone or anything it is common sense. So parang ang nagsabi sa kanya ng way ofs salvation is his common sense.

Nope. Your question was "kung naniniwala akong mapupunta sa impyerno ang makasalanan, paano mase-save ang tao?". Ayaw ko nga sanang sagutin yun tanong mo kasi loaded ng assumptions na hindi ko naman sinang-aayunan. Ilang beses ko rin namang inulit na I don't think about salvation. Pero pinipilit mo pa rin

[dpogs]

Nope. Your question was "kung naniniwala akong mapupunta sa impyerno ang makasalanan, paano mase-save ang tao?". Ayaw ko nga sanang sagutin yun tanong mo kasi loaded ng assumptions na hindi ko naman sinang-aayunan. Ilang beses ko rin namang inulit na I don't think about salvation. Pero pinipilit mo pa rin

yup. and you answered "repent." and after a while you modified your answer. ang ayaw mong sagutin na tanong eh sabi mo malinaw at naiintindihan mo ang teaching kaya ang tinanong ko at ayaw mong sagutin is ito

"Since malinaw at alam mo ang teaching and you "repent many times". Sigurado ka na ba na maliligtas ka?" at ang sagot mo lagi is "You don't think about your salvation"... pero sa tanong na "papaano maliligtas ang isang makasalanan?" ang sagot mo lang ay "repent." which is ayon sa iyo "galling sa iyong common sense".

kaya nga ang naging conclusion ko is... since you worry to much what is in this earth rather than what is in above, maybe the Word of God has been choke in your heart.

[bumblebee]

hindi pa ba yan yung repent sa wrongdoings? kailangan pa ba talaga sabihin specifically o ilagay specifically yung name nya or sabihin nya na "when I do something bad, I repent"? I just read between the lines and basing sa flow ng conversation. pero if you think I'm assuming, I respect your view. ang mas makakapagsabi naman talaga kung tama or mali "assumption" ko is si bumblebee.

Tama assumptions mo sa posts ko sir. And tama rin na sabihing repent lang, because repenting implies we did something wrong. Napakasimple naman hindi ba?

Ang intindi yata kasi nila, nung sinabi kong repent, kailangang mag-repent kahit walang kasalanan.

[bumblebee]

yup. and you answered "repent." and after a while you modified your answer. ang ayaw mong sagutin na tanong eh sabi mo malinaw at naiintindihan mo ang teaching kaya ang tinanong ko at ayaw mong sagutin is ito

"Since malinaw at alam mo ang teaching and you "repent many times". Sigurado ka na ba na maliligtas ka?" at ang sagot mo lagi is "You don't think about your salvation"... pero sa tanong na "papaano maliligtas ang isang makasalanan?" ang sagot mo lang ay "repent." which is ayon sa iyo "galling sa iyong common sense".

kaya nga ang naging conclusion ko is... since you worry to much what is in this earth rather than what is in above, maybe the Word of God has been choke in your heart.

Common sense lang naman talaga. If you ask, "kung naniniwala ka na mapupunta makasalanan sa impyerno, ano gagawin mo?" E di repent. And don't skip the "kung naniniwala ka" part

[dpogs]

ulitin ko ulit:

ano ang common sense sa iyo... ang mag-repent, tama ba? you are repenting because it is common sense.

ngayon common sense din bang sabihin na "ang way of salvation is repent"?

[jerix]

God the Son became flesh.

It does not mean God the Son changed and became a man. It means the Son was manifested in the flesh.  God the Son only took the form of a man, but He is still by His very nature God the Son.

If an angel took the form of a man, the angel would still be an angel.  Only the form would be human, but the true nature remains an angel.  If you wear a lion costume, you wouldn't become a lion, you would still be a man.



The original Greek in John 1:14 says "egeneto."  It means to come into being or into manifestation.

Thus, 1 Tim. 3:16 clarifies:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The original Greek is "phaneroo," which means to appear or to make visible.

Therefore, 1 Tim. 3:16 says God the Son was "manifest" in the flesh, meaning He appeared to us as a man. 

It means God the Son merely appeared on earth as a human, but His nature remained God the Son.

That is why Col. 2:9 says: For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. The visible bodily form is human, but in Him is the fullness of the Deity.

Compare that with an ordinary man.  In the case of ordinary men, the visible bodily form is human, but in the body is still human, not God.  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? (1 Cor. 2:11)  In the ordinary man is the spirit of man, not the fullness of the Deity.



That is why Phil. 2:6-8 says about Christ:

Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.  And being found in appearance as a man,  he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!

- Christ is in His very nature God.

- He is equal to God, but He did not consider this equality as something to be used to His own advantage.

- He was made in human likeness.  Not a human, but only in the likeness of a human.  If He were already human, then He would by nature already appear human, so why would He still have to take human likeness?

- He was in the appearance of a man.  Not a man, but only in the appearance of a man.  A God would have to take the appearance of a man, because He is not a man in His very nature. 



He is God who took the appearance of a man and by doing so became "manifest in the flesh."

So atty., follow up. Taking off from your explanation, the God the son before the birth of JC was in a form of spirit. Correct? The God the son only manifested in flesh later when he was born through Mary?

Does it mean also that that God the creator could have gotten himself a wife so that they bore that God the son who was manifested in flesh during the eventful Christmas. Right?

[bumblebee]

ulitin ko ulit:

ano ang common sense sa iyo... ang mag-repent, tama ba? you are repenting because it is common sense.

ngayon common sense din bang sabihin na "ang way of salvation is repent"?

Let it go dpogs

[barrister]

So atty., follow up. Taking off from your explanation, the God the son before the birth of JC was in a form of spirit. Correct? The God the son only manifested in flesh later when he was born through Mary?

Yes.

Does it mean also that that God the creator could have gotten himself a wife so that they bore that God the son who was manifested in flesh during the eventful Christmas. Right?

No, the Father could not have gotten Himself a wife for the purpose of bearing the Son.

The Son was God in the beginning.  The Son existed from the beginning.  The Son and the Father were together since the beginning.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. (John 1:1-2)

Why would the Father want a wife to bear His Son, when the Son had already existed since the beginning? 

the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. (Ps.2:7)

The Father begat the Son.  The Son has no mother.  The Father has no wife.

[dpogs]

Let it go dpogs

just amaze... that when it comes to salvation.. you rely on your own "common sense"...

[bumblebee]

just amaze... that when it comes to salvation.. you rely on your own "common sense"...

Ang kulit, hindi ko nga iniisip yung "salvation" ko e. I have better things to do

[dpogs]

Ang kulit, hindi ko nga iniisip yung "salvation" ko e. I have better things to do

oh yes yes... better things than your own salvation... got it...