Author Topic: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE (Read 86162 times)

Quitacet · « **Reply #360 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 03:23 PM »

Quote from: majoe on Sep 04, 2015 at 03:12 PM

tingin ko wala namang problema sa mga ganyang story kung ang plan ay maka compile ng scriptures na magiging guide sa pagtuturo at pagpapalaganap ng salita ng Diyos.

story meaning hindi talaga nangyari?

majoe · « **Reply #361 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 03:26 PM »

Quote from: bumblebee on Sep 04, 2015 at 03:16 PM

^Buti sana kung story lang e. Pano kung totoo nga yung nagyari kay Job? We have a story at his expense?

tutuo namang nangyari yan, hehe. kilalang kilala lang talaga ng Diyos si Job. ang reward naman kasi ni Job ay sa susunod na buhay^

bumblebee · « **Reply #362 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 03:32 PM »

Will you put your child to the test just prove your point to other people?

majoe · « **Reply #363 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 03:34 PM »

Quote from: bumblebee on Sep 04, 2015 at 03:20 PM

Wouldn't it be easier if he just asked God for forgiveness?

bumabalik balik lang yata tayo eh

i relate mo lang sa real life situation, makukuha mo na eh. meron talagang taong masama at nagpapakasama. nasasarapan eh, hehe.
pati nakasulat naman sa bible, tumitigas ang puso ng tao sa kasamaan lalu na pag paulit ulit ginagawa.

bumblebee · « **Reply #364 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 03:38 PM »

Quote from: majoe on Sep 04, 2015 at 03:34 PM

bumabalik balik lang yata tayo eh

i relate mo lang sa real life situation, makukuha mo na eh. meron talagang taong masama at nagpapakasama. nasasarapan eh, hehe.
pati nakasulat naman sa bible, tumitigas ang puso ng tao sa kasamaan lalu na pag paulit ulit ginagawa.

Yun nga, hindi na magbabago di ba? So strike him down already ng hindi na makadamay pa.

majoe · « **Reply #365 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 03:42 PM »

Quote from: bumblebee on Sep 04, 2015 at 03:38 PM

Yun nga, hindi na magbabago di ba? So strike him down already ng hindi na makadamay pa.

ulit lang, hehe.

panalo Gilas, wohoo !

barrister · « **Reply #366 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 03:59 PM »

Quote from: majoe on Sep 04, 2015 at 03:18 PM

di rin pala useless ang timeline nya. for almost 6,000 years, nakaka deceive sya ng maraming tao.

6,000 years lang?

YEC (Young Earth Creationist) ka pala sir, ha...

majoe · « **Reply #367 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 04:00 PM »

Quote from: bumblebee on Sep 04, 2015 at 03:38 PM

Yun nga, hindi na magbabago di ba? So strike him down already ng hindi na makadamay pa.

sige na, mag speculate na lang tayo

we don't really know what's between Jesus and Satan in God's kingdom. I think very special talaga si satan dun, sya nga ang may pinakamataas na rank sa mga angels. siguro katiwala rin sya dun.
tapos nung nandito sila lupa, nakita mo naman kung panu tuksuhin ni satan si Jesus, parang very casual lang. so, siguro na may something in between them kaya di agad magawang patayin na lang si satan.

majoe · « **Reply #368 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 04:02 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 04, 2015 at 03:59 PM

6,000 years lang?

YEC (Young Earth Creationist) ka pala sir, ha...

nope. 6,000 years from creation of adam yan.

4.5 billion years naman ang age ng earth

luis · « **Reply #369 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 04:15 PM »

Quote from: majoe on Sep 04, 2015 at 04:02 PM

nope. 6,000 years from creation of adam yan.

4.5 billion years naman ang age ng earth

ang laki pala ng knowledge or info gap natin in terms of chronological events leading to today.

barrister · « **Reply #370 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 04:21 PM »

Quote from: majoe on Sep 04, 2015 at 04:02 PM

nope. 6,000 years from creation of adam yan.

4.5 billion years naman ang age ng earth

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

That's an unusual belief. These days, they call that "Young Humanity, Old Earth."

Ang advocate niyan, si John Piper (Calvinist-Baptist), founder of Desiring God Media Ministries and desiringgod.org.

Quitacet · « **Reply #371 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 04:38 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 04, 2015 at 04:21 PM

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

That's an unusual belief. These days, they call that "Young Humanity, Old Earth."

Ang advocate niyan, si John Piper (Calvinist-Baptist), founder of Desiring God Media Ministries and desiringgod.org.

If I am not mistaken parang ganyan din kay Bro. Eli.

barrister · « **Reply #372 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 04:41 PM »

Hindi yata sir.

Nanonood ako lagi noon, nung hindi pa siya sikat. Si Brod Eli, naniniwala sa carbon dating for fossils, kasama ang human fossils.

Quitacet · « **Reply #373 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 04:44 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 04, 2015 at 04:41 PM

Hindi yata sir.

Nanonood ako lagi noon, nung hindi pa siya sikat. Si Brod Eli, naniniwala sa carbon dating for fossils, kasama ang human fossils.

ahhh. I heard him kasi saying na the 6 days as mentioned in Genesis could be millions of years

majoe · « **Reply #374 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 04:47 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 04, 2015 at 04:21 PM

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

That's an unusual belief. These days, they call that "Young Humanity, Old Earth."

Ang advocate niyan, si John Piper (Calvinist-Baptist), founder of Desiring God Media Ministries and desiringgod.org.

i don't think it's an unusual belief naman. like i said in other thread, the creation account is scientific and it supports the old age earth.

catholic pa rin naman ako at di ako aware sa teaching nila.

barrister · « **Reply #375 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 04:53 PM »

Catholic ka pala sir.

Personal belief na lang siguro. Wala kasing doctrine ang Catholic tungkol diyan.

Unusual na belief yan sir. Bakit unusual?

Pag sinabi mong wala pang 6,000 years ang humanity, you will have to reject radiocarbon dating results.

But you accept the age of the earth to be 4.5 billion years old.

Therefore, you accept carbon dating for the earth, yet reject carbon dating results for human fossils. Unusual, di ba?

barrister · « **Reply #376 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 04:54 PM »

Quote from: Quitacet on Sep 04, 2015 at 04:44 PM

ahhh. I heard him kasi saying na the 6 days as mentioned in Genesis could be millions of years

Ah, narinig ko rin yon.

Parang ang sabi niya, 4th day lang ginawa ang sun and moon, so 4th day lang nagkaroon ng 24-hour day.

Therefore, days 1 to 3, hindi 24-hour days. Hindi natin alam ang durations, pero puwedeng years, thousands of years, millions of years, etc.

From the creation of Adam until today, wala siyang sinasabing less than 6,000 years. Pero madalas siyang mag-discuss ng fossils, naniniwala siya na tama ang radiocarbon dating.

Quitacet · « **Reply #377 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 04:56 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 04, 2015 at 04:53 PM

Catholic ka pala sir.

Personal belief na lang siguro. Wala kasing doctrine ang Catholic tungkol diyan.

Unusual na belief yan sir. Bakit unusual?

Pag sinabi mong wala pang 6,000 years ang humanity, you will have to reject radiocarbon dating results.
But you accept the age of the earth to be 4.5 billion years old.

Therefore, you accept carbon dating for the earth, yet reject carbon dating results for human fossils. Unusual, di ba?

probably sa genealogy nya nacompute ang 6000 years from adam

Quitacet · « **Reply #378 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 04:59 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 04, 2015 at 04:54 PM

Ah, narinig ko rin yon.

Parang ang sabi niya, 4th day lang ginawa ang sun and moon, so 4th day lang nagkaroon ng 24-hour day.

Therefore, days 1 to 3, hindi 24-hour days. Hindi natin alam ang durations, pero puwedeng years, thousands of years, millions of years, etc.

From the creation of Adam until today, wala siyang sinasabing less than 6,000 years. Pero madalas siyang mag-discuss ng fossils, naniniwala siya na tama ang radiocarbon dating.

tama, sir. ganyan nga nabasa ko. prior to creation of sun and moon, not 24-hour day ang paliwanag nya sa prior days.

even sa dinosaurs, millions of years ang pagitan nila according to him, creation-wise

barrister · « **Reply #379 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 05:04 PM »

Quote from: Quitacet on Sep 04, 2015 at 04:56 PM

probably sa genealogy nya nacompute ang 6000 years from adam

It's impossible to compute the age of the human race using bible genealogies.

Yung mga YEC, mahilig gumamit ng genealogies.

Pero hindi puwedeng tumama yon, kasi ang genealogies sa bible ay kulang-kulang.

For example, puwedeng sabihin, A begat G. Pero yun pala, malayong grandchild lang si G. Ang tunay na family tree, A-B-C-D-E-F-G, pero sasabihin sa bible, G is the son of A.

May ibang verses na basis yan, kaya pinipilit ang 6,000 years nila.

Quitacet · « **Reply #380 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 05:06 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 04, 2015 at 05:04 PM

It's impossible to compute the age of the human race using bible genealogies.

Yung mga YEC, mahilig gumamit ng genealogies.

Pero hindi puwedeng tumama yon, kasi ang genealogies sa bible ay kulang-kulang.

For example, puwedeng sabihin, A begat G. Pero yun pala, malayong grandchild lang si G. Ang tunay na family tree, A-B-C-D-E-F-G, pero sasabihin sa bible, G is the son of A.

May ibang verses na basis yan, kaya pinipilit ang 6,000 years nila.

baka
chronogenealogy: http://creation.com/6000-years

barrister · « **Reply #381 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 05:13 PM »

Mali iyan sir.

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis_genealogies.html

Ang tanong mo dapat, bakit ba pinipilit nila yang 6,000 years na yan? Doon lilinaw yan.

Quitacet · « **Reply #382 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 05:17 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 04, 2015 at 05:13 PM

Mali iyan sir.

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis_genealogies.html

Ang tanong mo dapat, bakit ba pinipilit nila yang 6,000 years na yan? Doon lilinaw yan.

wait na lang si majoe, atty, for her basis. interesting din.

kaso nawalan ako ng gana magpopost kahit dun sa INC thread.

parang naguilty ako na kung anu-ano pinaguusapan natin dito tapos sa ibang bansa ganito nangyayari: https://www.facebook.com/lamis.ys/posts/382422661966793

barrister · « **Reply #383 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 05:30 PM »

Quote from: Quitacet on Sep 04, 2015 at 05:17 PM

kaso nawalan ako ng gana magpopost kahit dun sa INC thread.

Sayang lang oras mo doon sir.

Ewan ko ba doon sa iba, obvious naman sa title na para sa INC members yon, doon pa umaatake ng INC.

Bumabanat din ako sa INC, pero hindi naman sa thread na yon.

majoe · « **Reply #384 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 05:37 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 04, 2015 at 04:53 PM

Catholic ka pala sir.

Personal belief na lang siguro. Wala kasing doctrine ang Catholic tungkol diyan.

Unusual na belief yan sir. Bakit unusual?

Pag sinabi mong wala pang 6,000 years ang humanity, you will have to reject radiocarbon dating results.

But you accept the age of the earth to be 4.5 billion years old.

Therefore, you accept carbon dating for the earth, yet reject carbon dating results for human fossils. Unusual, di ba?

yes, nagkaroon ako ng personal belief mula ng nagbasa basa ako ng bible kasama syempre ang knowledge sa science

pero it does not affect naman ang pagiging catholic ko dahil tingin ko open minded na ngayon ang catholic church pagdating sa doctrines.

ang stand ko kasi pagdating sa carbon dating ng living things ay accurate lang sya up to 4000-5000 years and that is after the great flood. before kasi ng flood, iba ang condition ng earth. di natin masasabi na ang radiocarbon content sa atmospehre noon ay pareho pa rin after ng flood. nag iba talaga ang atmosphere natin. kaya kung mapapansin nyo sa bible, daang taon ang life span ng mga tao noon pero after ng flood, 120 years below na lang. and i believe, it has something to do with the radiocarbon content we are taking.

kaya kung gusto nyo mabuhay ng mahaba, bawasan ang radiocarbon intake, hehe.

majoe · « **Reply #385 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 05:51 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 04, 2015 at 05:04 PM

It's impossible to compute the age of the human race using bible genealogies.

Yung mga YEC, mahilig gumamit ng genealogies.

Pero hindi puwedeng tumama yon, kasi ang genealogies sa bible ay kulang-kulang.

For example, puwedeng sabihin, A begat G. Pero yun pala, malayong grandchild lang si G. Ang tunay na family tree, A-B-C-D-E-F-G, pero sasabihin sa bible, G is the son of A.

May ibang verses na basis yan, kaya pinipilit ang 6,000 years nila.

i just refer to jewish calendar which i believed to be more accurate. based din yun sa geneologies.
pati lugar at race nila mismo yung nasa bible kaya they know better

actually, it's 5,775 years na from creation of adam.

majoe · « **Reply #386 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 05:59 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 04, 2015 at 04:53 PM

Therefore, you accept carbon dating for the earth, yet reject carbon dating results for human fossils. Unusual, di ba?

btw sir, di ginagamit ang carbon dating sa pag determine ng age ng earth. sa living things lang applicable (fossils).

barrister · « **Reply #387 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 06:52 PM »

Tama ka sir. Radiometric pala for non-living things. Hindi ko rin masyadong alam yan, sa google ko lang nakukuha.

Mas malinaw na sa akin. So, for non-living things, ok sa iyo ang radiometric dating, but for animals and plants, you don't believe carbon dating is accurate.

Unusual pa rin

AFAIK, those who don't believe in carbon dating for humans, animals and plants also don't believe in radiometric dating for non-living things. Magka-partner kasi yon. Usually you believe both, or disbelieve both. Unusual yung belief in one but not the other.

Well anyway, kanya-kanya tayo ng belief.

majoe · « **Reply #388 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 07:04 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 04, 2015 at 06:52 PM

Tama ka sir. Radiometric pala for non-living things. Hindi ko rin masyadong alam yan, sa google ko lang nakukuha.

Mas malinaw na sa akin. So, for non-living things, ok sa iyo ang radiometric dating, but for animals and plants, you don't believe in carbon dating is accurate.

Unusual pa rin

AFAIK, those who don't believe in carbon dating for humans, animals and plants also don't believe in radiometric dating for non-living things. Magka-partner kasi yon. Usually you believe both, or disbelieve both. Unusual yung belief in one but not the other.

Well anyway, kanya-kanya tayo ng belief.

i believe both. may condition nga lang sa carbon dating. accurate lang ito pag ang result ay less than 5000 years ang nakuha . pag sobrang taas na, questionable na.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #389 on:** Sep 04, 2015 at 07:05 PM »

Hindi na kaya OT tayong lahat? Haha!