Author Topic: Speaker DIY'ers (Read 308509 times)

newbieforever · « **Reply #630 on:** Jan 02, 2014 at 08:08 PM »

Sorry to sound dumb but what kind of wire should be used to connect the driver (full range) to the terminal cup? Would regular speaker wire (ga 12) work?

Gino · « **Reply #631 on:** Jan 02, 2014 at 08:34 PM »

Same wire you will be using from speaker to amp.

newbieforever · « **Reply #632 on:** Jan 03, 2014 at 08:50 AM »

thanks for clearing that up sir gino!

tony · « **Reply #633 on:** Jan 03, 2014 at 09:10 AM »

Quote from: newbieforever on Jan 02, 2014 at 08:08 PM

Sorry to sound dumb but what kind of wire should be used to connect the driver (full range) to the terminal cup? Would regular speaker wire (ga 12) work?

most likely, the magnet wire in your speaker's voice coil is #30 to #28, so that a gage 22 to 18 is big enough, length is not even 1 meter from speaker terminal to the speaker box terminal jack itself....

but if you want to use #12, go ahead and do it...

newbieforever · « **Reply #634 on:** Jan 06, 2014 at 03:49 PM »

thanks sir tony! by your comment, i am assuming that speaker gauge (from driver to terminal) is not as critical as i initially thought. i think i still have some ga18 wires lying around so i guess i'll use those. :-)

now that's cleared up, i would also like to get your input on using two full range drivers in a single cabinet. would this be good idea? i have a pair of audio nirvana super 6.5 and a pair of vintage 8" alnico drivers from a fellow pdvd'er (http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,187316.0.html). any place where i can get speaker plans?

tony · « **Reply #635 on:** Jan 06, 2014 at 04:03 PM »

Quote from: newbieforever on Jan 06, 2014 at 03:49 PM

thanks sir tony! by your comment, i am assuming that speaker gauge (from driver to terminal) is not as critical as i initially thought. i think i still have some ga18 wires lying around so i guess i'll use those. :-)

now that's cleared up, i would also like to get your input on using two full range drivers in a single cabinet. would this be good idea? i have a pair of audio nirvana super 6.5 and a pair of vintage 8" alnico drivers from a fellow pdvd'er (http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,187316.0.html). any place where i can get speaker plans?

good choice.....

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=speaker+plans&oq=speaker+plans&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Gino · « **Reply #636 on:** Jan 06, 2014 at 04:23 PM »

Both are full range so why use in tandem? I'd choose one or build two sets of speakers to be used separately.

Be aware of your speaker's sensitivity ratings relative to each other if you insist on using both. You also need a crossover. Those are wide band speakers and for sure there will be overlaps. Depending on the outcome they may cause a bump or a dip in your response curve.

deist · « **Reply #637 on:** Jan 06, 2014 at 04:53 PM »

Quote from: tony on Jan 03, 2014 at 09:10 AM

most likely, the magnet wire in your speaker's voice coil is #30 to #28, so that a gage 22 to 18 is big enough, length is not even 1 meter from speaker terminal to the speaker box terminal jack itself....

+1 I remember suggesting to you CAT5e ethernet cable wires, there are 4 pairs of 24AWG stranded wires inside the CAT5e. You can use 1 strand or 2 for each speaker polarity or you can get carried away and use 2 pairs per polarity

I remember an advice from a full range speaker designer/manufacturer that copper wires are best used for FRs.

Quote from: newbieforever on Jan 06, 2014 at 03:49 PM

now that's cleared up, i would also like to get your input on using two full range drivers in a single cabinet. would this be good idea? i have a pair of audio nirvana super 6.5 and a pair of vintage 8" alnico drivers from a fellow pdvd'er (http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,187316.0.html). any place where i can get speaker plans?

I wouldn't put 2 different drivers in a single box. As Gino said, you need to use a crossover so that 1 pair will handle lows & another pair for the highs/mids but that will become multi-way, straying from the concept of full range which is a single driver to handle the entire audible spectrum.

Whatever you decide on pls keep us posted. Seek advice from the Audio Nirvana thread also, they are very happy with their setup and I haven't read any negative feedback so I'm pretty sure they will be more than willing to help you out with your AN project.

tony · « **Reply #638 on:** Jan 06, 2014 at 05:05 PM »

there is nothing to prevent you from putting two drivers in one cabinet or box,
the caveat is that there should be no interaction between the two and
they will function independently of each other....

deist · « **Reply #639 on:** Jan 06, 2014 at 05:11 PM »

Quote from: tony on Jan 06, 2014 at 05:05 PM

there is nothing to prevent you from putting two drivers in one cabinet or box,
the caveat is that there should be no interaction between the two and
they will function independently of each other....

Agree, kaya lang sir Tony the drivers are 6.5" & 8" I can just imagine how huge those boxes will be if you put them together in a single enclosure

tony · « **Reply #640 on:** Jan 06, 2014 at 05:15 PM »

Quote from: deist on Jan 06, 2014 at 05:11 PM

Agree, kaya lang sir Tony the drivers are 6.5" & 8" I can just imagine how huge those boxes will be if you put them together in a single enclosure

imagination lang....pero the idea sucks....

since ang tittle ng thread na ito ay Speaker DIY'ers , bakit hindi kung gusto nya gawin...

newbieforever · « **Reply #641 on:** Jan 06, 2014 at 05:37 PM »

sorry for initiating some conflict here. it was just a thought since i remember seeing dual driver box designs somewhere (can't seem to remember where). i do remember the drivers being isolated from each other internally though... again, it was just a random thought since i did have 2 pairs of drivers (and only one amp). i'll do some more research and keep you posted.

tony · « **Reply #642 on:** Jan 06, 2014 at 06:01 PM »

no need to say sorry, we diy'ers are allowed to go crazy sometimes

...that is where the fun is, being able to do what pleases you....

deist · « **Reply #643 on:** Jan 06, 2014 at 07:40 PM »

Quote from: newbieforever on Jan 06, 2014 at 05:37 PM

it was just a thought since i remember seeing dual driver box designs somewhere (can't seem to remember where). i do remember the drivers being isolated from each other internally though... again, it was just a random thought since i did have 2 pairs of drivers (and only one amp). i'll do some more research and keep you posted.

ah it must be a F.A.S.T. (full range and subwoofer technology) system. Basically you will use the full range driver to handle the highs & mids, crossed it over low so a separate subwoofer driver (specifically designed to handle constant cone excursion, yung tinatawag na "bayo") will take care of the lows (bass), in 2 separate boxes na pinagkabit so it will look like one floorstander. Pero meron din 2 SAME drivers in 1 box volume wired in parallel.

I understand this is gonna be your first full range build? my suggestion is to go the safe route and build a proven box design for your AN, why? because I want you to first experience full range drivers for what they are designed for; a single driver to handle the whole spectrum of sound. After building my Mark Audio full range speakers hindi ko na ginamit yung Wharfedale Dentons ko & after 2 weeks binenta ko na. For me my build is about 2 tiers level above the Dentons SQ wise (the build cost is also a couple of thousands cheaper

) I think i'm done with off-the-shelf speakers.

No need to apologize bro, we're just having a discussion here, idol ko yan si sir Tony, his knowledge in electronics esp tubes is very valuable to the community lalo na sa DIYers kasi hindi madamot yan mag-share ng alam nya

newbieforever · « **Reply #644 on:** Jan 08, 2014 at 05:46 PM »

thanks for the encouragement!

yes, this will be my first full range build. and yes, the ones i saw were indeed F.A.S.T. systems (spent the past couple of days researching). i'll probably look into those for my other set of drivers. but for now, i'll take sir deist's advise and build the AN as suggested by CommonSense Audio. :-)

and yes, crazy is fun sir tony!

tony · « **Reply #645 on:** Jan 08, 2014 at 05:54 PM »

DIY'ers can go as crazy as they like, they are not motivated by profit....

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #646 on:** Jan 08, 2014 at 07:25 PM »

Quote from: tony on Jan 08, 2014 at 05:54 PM

DIY'ers can go as crazy as they like, they are not motivated by profit....

Oo nga. Alam mo sana may mag-DIY anechoic chamber dito with the proper tools for measuring performances of the speaker DIY builds.

tony · « **Reply #647 on:** Jan 08, 2014 at 07:54 PM »

^that would be the height of craziness.....hayaan mo pag nanalo ako sa LOTTO gagawa tayo nyan....libre patesting...

odyopayl · « **Reply #648 on:** Jan 09, 2014 at 07:43 AM »

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Jan 08, 2014 at 07:25 PM

Oo nga. Alam mo sana may mag-DIY anechoic chamber dito with the proper tools for measuring performances of the speaker DIY builds.

Sir Nelson, anechoic chamber is just for the standard measurements of commercial speakers just to have universal reference. As far my experience with audio, speaker performance depends on the listening environment. Most audiophile gears doesn't have any bass and treble meaning in order to make them sounds good, everything should be match from source, interconnects, speaker cable and speakers and listening room.
DIY is fun in order to understand what really sounds are. I heard a set-up with a single raw driver that sounds full without a Sub. Everything should be well match. The good thing about DIY you can build system that can really matched your listening taste based on your listening room.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #649 on:** Jan 09, 2014 at 10:00 PM »

Quote from: odyopayl on Jan 09, 2014 at 07:43 AM

Sir Nelson, anechoic chamber is just for the standard measurements of commercial speakers just to have universal reference. As far my experience with audio, speaker performance depends on the listening environment. Most audiophile gears doesn't have any bass and treble meaning in order to make them sounds good, everything should be match from source, interconnects, speaker cable and speakers and listening room.
DIY is fun in order to understand what really sounds are. I heard a set-up with a single raw driver that sounds full without a Sub. Everything should be well match. The good thing about DIY you can build system that can really matched your listening taste based on your listening room.

I know. I meant performance, not sonic signature. Why, so you'll know, for one, how much power you would need to drive the speakers at different decibels. I know matching is important pero it doesn't start and end there. Anechoic chambers are not just for universal reference but it's one of the common ways of properly knowing, in terms of quantifiable data, how the speaker would perform. I'm talking physical movement etc. Not how it would sound.

newbieforever · « **Reply #650 on:** Jan 10, 2014 at 09:25 AM »

just curious.. are there local service providers who can professionally design speaker cabinets based on the actual driver as well as client needs (ie. not based on manufacturers specifications and recommendations).

markcrenz · « **Reply #651 on:** Jan 10, 2014 at 09:56 AM »

You can download speaker box calculators, free software marami dyan. Medyo kailangan lang tyaga aralin yun, but once you get the hang of it you can design your own box based on the TS parameters of any driver.

newbieforever · « **Reply #652 on:** Jan 10, 2014 at 10:30 AM »

Quote from: markcrenz on Jan 10, 2014 at 09:56 AM

You can download speaker box calculators, free software marami dyan. Medyo kailangan lang tyaga aralin yun, but once you get the hang of it you can design your own box based on the TS parameters of any driver.

would one need a background in electronics?

tony · « **Reply #653 on:** Jan 10, 2014 at 11:22 AM »

no....you will be doing woodworking...

markcrenz · « **Reply #654 on:** Jan 10, 2014 at 12:22 PM »

Quote from: newbieforever on Jan 10, 2014 at 10:30 AM

would one need a background in electronics?

No. But the ability to interpret frequency response graphs is necessary. Yun kasi ang graphical representation ng results that you will get after entering data in the software. Math proficiency is an advantage since maraming numbers involved.

Sample pic showing the software model of my DIY subs courtesy of the great sub builder threadlock. My Excel-based software (not shown) produced almost identical results. The bottom left graph can be interpreted as: theoretical 110 dB average SPL at 250 watts, -3.5dB/+1.2dB from 20hz-200hz, not accounting room gain & acoustic coupling of 2 subs.

notnimdab2009 · « **Reply #655 on:** Jan 11, 2014 at 06:42 AM »

ano pong diy speakers pede nyo ma recommend for karaoke system? budget po 8k. thanks.

qguy · « **Reply #656 on:** Jan 11, 2014 at 07:12 AM »

Might be cheaper to just buy ready made speakers from konzert and the like, not unless may special requirement ka.

Quote from: notnimdab2009 on Jan 11, 2014 at 06:42 AM

ano pong diy speakers pede nyo ma recommend for karaoke system? budget po 8k. thanks.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #657 on:** Jan 11, 2014 at 07:45 AM »

Quote from: qguy on Jan 11, 2014 at 07:12 AM

Might be cheaper to just buy ready made speakers from konzert and the like, not unless may special requirement ka.

Baka naman he's into the hobby of DIY din kaya he's asking for recommendations. If we will look at the videoke (for rent) system and copy it. he's gonna need a special midrange because usually nakikita ko, mga 6.5" - 8" ang midrange nila. But you're right, for the budget of 8k, konzert speakers coes into mind. Pero kulang pa kasi he would still need a subwoofer.

Gino · « **Reply #658 on:** Jan 11, 2014 at 09:26 AM »

A-audio may be able to do something with P8k.

newbieforever · « **Reply #659 on:** Jan 11, 2014 at 11:22 AM »

Quote from: markcrenz on Jan 10, 2014 at 12:22 PM

No. But the ability to interpret frequency response graphs is necessary. Yun kasi ang graphical representation ng results that you will get after entering data in the software. Math proficiency is an advantage since maraming numbers involved.

Sample pic showing the software model of my DIY subs courtesy of the great sub builder threadlock. My Excel-based software (not shown) produced almost identical results. The bottom left graph can be interpreted as: theoretical 110 dB average SPL at 250 watts, -3.5dB/+1.2dB from 20hz-200hz, not accounting room gain & acoustic coupling of 2 subs.

been reading through similar threads about speaker/cabinet design and it's all waaaayy over my head

. seems like a good thing to get into though! what's a good starting point (ie. book/website/articles/short courses) for a newbie like myself with absolutely no background? meron bang "speakers for dummies"

? how'd everyone here get started?