Topic: 6.1 & 7.1 speaker setup?

[kt]

magkaiba ba pag setup ng 6.1 sa 7.1? wen kelangn ng surround center pag 6.1 lang ba? kasi parang ganito dba?
6.1:
FL___C___FR

SL___SC___SR

7.1:
__FL___C___FR

SL___________SR
__SBL____ SBR

tama po ba? or iba-iba din setting pag 7.1? tnx

[krets pulpol]

correct! tama ang diagram

ang difference lang nyan yun center sa likod, mono kasi pag 6.1, yung 7.1 may left and right ang back center.

and yung 7.1 discrete lahat ang channels nyan. 

[kt]

bro krets! so if u go 6.1 setup edi u nid a surround center dba? then wat if u wanted to go 7.1? edi di na magamit yung dating surround center? n pano na setting mo nun sa avr since most dvds are DTS/DD5.1 lang? so mag matrix ka nalang yung mga neo:6 etc?

[krets pulpol]

yep, pwede pa naman, bili ka nga lang ng isa pa ehehe loko lang.    most center channels nakahiga so mahirap maglagay pa ng isa.  so it's better to get a smaller set of speaker (left and right) for the surround back if your set-up is 7.1.  yep matrix na, unless discrete 6.1 channels yung dvd pero bihira i.e. gladiator r1  harman-kardon has logic7 feature for 7.1, thx has their own also.

depende rin sa application yan, kung malaki talaga home theatre room mo, mas maganda 7.1 set-up.  yung 6.1 pwede from small to mid size rooms.  7.1 sa small rooms overkill na eh pero pwede pa rin.

[arthurallanj]

Pwedeng makisabat?  If your source is discrete 6, like the DTS-ES, both the surround back left (6th ch) and surround back right (7th ch) will be sharing the same signals, but will be different from the Surround left (4th ch) Surround right (5th ch). If your source is 5 channels, the SBL and SBR will have the matrixed audio of the Surround left and Surround right. AFAIK, only DTS-ES offers 6 channels of discrete signals, Dolby Digital-EX encoding is just matrixed. Also, to date, I haven't found any DVD movies encoded in 7 discrete channels, so, okay lang muna na 6 speakers ka lang. We still don't know if someday may dadating na DVD movies encoded in 7 discrete channels. So most amps with 7 channels of discrete amplification is more for future proofing. Just my own thoughts. 

[kt]

bro krets & art! yup i know konti palang yung may discrete 6.1. im also just future proofing my system n thinking ahead...hehe so ok na muna ko mag 5.1. antay nalng ako pag dami ng sources ng 6.1 & 7.1 if ever magkaroon!   sayang kasi pag nag 6.1 ako then bglang lumabas na mga 7.1 formats eh. para bawas sa gastos n upgrade! at least 7.1 ready na avr natin! hehe...

sino po ba naka 6.1/7.1 setup dyan?

[MAtZTER]

I read somewhere that a 7.1 setup is better because of the way our brain interprets sound coming from 2 directions behind our ears, as opposed to 1 source directly behind us.

Anyway, when I started this hobby, I bought a 6.1 receiver and since I had 2 extra 4 ohm speakers I found at home. I connected the 2 in series (with Arthurallanjr's advice  ) to make it a 7.1. This makes the 2 speakers 8 ohms equivalent and it wont stress the receiver. But on the other hand, the 6th channel is only used about 10% of the time, so not much to worry about.

Now I am using an all channels driven 7.1 receiver, so no need to do that anymore.

7.1:
__FL___C___FR

SL___________SR
__SBL____ SBR

tama po ba? or iba-iba din setting pag 7.1? tnx

Bro, you could check out my 7.1 speaker placement here

[krets pulpol]

bro krets & art! yup i know konti palang yung may discrete 6.1. im also just future proofing my system n thinking ahead...hehe so ok na muna ko mag 5.1. antay nalng ako pag dami ng sources ng 6.1 & 7.1 if ever magkaroon!   sayang kasi pag nag 6.1 ako then bglang lumabas na mga 7.1 formats eh. para bawas sa gastos n upgrade! at least 7.1 ready na avr natin! hehe...

sino po ba naka 6.1/7.1 setup dyan?

most of the receivers nowadays are 6.1 capable, it depends on you if you'll be getting a 7.1 and i don't see anything wrong with that.  pwede mo pa rin kasi ikabit sa 5.1 setup.  and for me depende rin sa room na paglalagyan mo, kung medyo malaki ng konti talaga mas maganda nga 7.1.  but here's the thing, did you notice surrounds getting used that often compared to fronts and center?  from my experience, there are only certain dvds with good separation and surround experience (enveloping in other terms).  kahit kasi lumabas yung discrete 7.1 dvds, i think the current receivers won't be able to process discrete 7.1 channels kasi hanggang 6.1 pa lang ang encoding ng dolby and dts (dolby-ex and dts-es) unless they develop anytime soon.  puro matrix lang ang surround back unless it's a discrete 6.1 encoded movie.  i read somewhere there's a 9.1 set-up but i guess that's too much unless you have a real theatre inside your own home.

a small pair of speakers will do for the surround back 

   

[av_phile1]

Just some thoughts on the subject:

It's tempting to dive into 6.1 or 7.1 just because you have an extra pair of speakers stashed in the attic.   But you really won't achieve the advantages promised by 6.1 and 7.1 if your new or extra speakers are not timbre-matched with your current 5.1 speakers and properly adjusted for delay and level compensation relative to your sweet spot. 

People who bought timber-matched 5.1 speakers for their 5.1 receivers 3-4 years ago would have difficulty timber-matching new speaker additions today for a new 6.1 or 7.1 receiver.   That's because the speaker models have changed or superceded with newer designs.  Not entirely impossible, just difficult.   Same problem will rear itself down the road with newer recievers with N more channels. 

The hardware is really getting a bit beyond what the software can deliver.  There are many flagship receivers out there with 9.1 or 10.1 capabilities, mostly offering what is called "height" channels to give better vertical directionality.  But are there DVD players that have 6.1 or 7.1, much less 9.1?  And even if using the digital connection, there are so few materials out there with discrete 6.1 or 7.1 channels. 

For me, and for now,  the important thing in surround set-ups is to get the right speaker placement, timber-matching, channel delay and volumes right relative to the listener.   A properly set-up 5.1 can often sound more enveloping and immersive than a 6.1 or 7.1 that's not properly configured.  Don't let the number of speakers that your new receiver can handle dictate your configuration.  The  best value can be had investing on good  5.1 speakers than spreading it thin on a 6.1 or 7.1 in the same price range. 

But I can understand the thrill of hearing a discrete back center or back stereo pair.  It reminds me of the first time I listened to a discrete surround pair when 5.1 was just a starting.  I too ended up with a hodge-podge of speakers for frontn center and rear with my first HT set-up.  But getting it done right later was a revelation of sorts. 

Just be careful not to be suckered into getting quanity over quality.  Future proofing is a good move when buying.  But I have my doubts with regards receivers. With the ever changing technologies in audio and video, merely getting the most number of channels may not be the way to go.  There are many limitations of receivers, especially in the entry levels,  that I personally find difficult if not impossible to future proof against technological obsolescence or even listening style changes.   

And once you have a 6.1 or 7.1 receiver, there's always the urge to fill up all the vacant speaker terminals, if only to savor what the new channles have to offer.  I guess there'd be no harm done doing that.  I've encountered questions about what back center speakers should be and what happens upgrading to stereo back in 7.1.  Getting another speaker identical to the center back is often the answer I see in some forums.  I think this is also the more cost-effective solution, rather than getting a stereo pair and junking the center back.  Whatever added speakers you want to put in, just like making a 5.1 timber-matched, it would be a good idea to have the same standards for 6.1 or 7.1 or higher.  Just my thoughts.

[kt]

bro kretz, matz & av! tnx for the very helpful infos!

hehe well i agree na its very tempting to go the 6.1/7.1 esp if your avr has 2 more free channels...so if ever in a 6.1/7.1 setup n your source is just 5.1...then u have to use the matrix/neo:6/etc function right? so isnt it just matrixed just like the PLII wc turns the 2ch to 5ch wc is also a bit inacurate? tnx agn guys!

[alistair]

so if ever in a 6.1/7.1 setup n your source is just 5.1...then u have to use the matrix/neo:6/etc function right? so isnt it just matrixed just like the PLII wc turns the 2ch to 5ch wc is also a bit inacurate? tnx agn guys!

Exactly, which is why I limited myself to a 5.1 amp/receiver. Instead of going for a 6.1/7.1 receiver from popular manufacturers, I opted for the entry-level receiver of a more respected brand.

There are few DVDs encoded in either Dolby Digital EX, THX ES or DTS-ES - and I don't own any of them (yet). Even then, if I'm not mistaken Dolby Digital EX and DTS-ES are matrix-encoded in the first place - that is, the surround back channel information is encoded into the surround left and surround right channels.

The only true 6.1 or 7.1 encodings I know of are Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete - and how many DVDs have you seen out there have that?

[edit]

Let me correct myself, meron din palang Dolby Digital Surround EX which features discrete 6 or 7.1 channels.

[kt]

bro alistair! yup sbrang konti palng ng sources with discrete 6.1....

can som1 clarify po na "in a 6.1/7.1 setup n your source is just 5.1...then u have to use the matrix/neo:6/etc function right? so isnt it just matrixed just like the PLII wc turns the 2ch to 5ch wc is also a bit inacurate?" coz its like DD5.1/DTS/discrete 6.1(DTS ES)  vs.  PLII/Neo6. syempre mas clear po ang distiction sa real discrete formats dba?

[Kevlar]

6.1 & 7.1 speaker setup?

5.1 is all you need. Really! 
Too much of a good thing can be bad... 

Seriously, I find 6.1, 7.1 and up systems superfluous
and unecessary.  You can achieve ALL KINDS
of surround effects and complete 360 degree
envelopment/coverage with just 5.1.

Two surround speakers placed in a near 180-degree
angle behind your back can accurately reproduce
whatever lateral(side) and rear/back effects of movies
there are whether they be 5.1 6.1, 7.1 or whatever.

In addition, lateral(side) and rear(back) imaging
for 5.1 systems can frequently be superior to 6.1 and 7.1.
The reason is because in 6.1/7.1 systems, the rear(back) channel(s)
can easily throw off the imaging created by the lateral(side) surround
channels and vice-versa.  It's so much easier to mess up lateral(side)
and rear(back) imaging with a 6.1 or 7.1 system than a 5.1 system.
The brain is just not very good at localizing images at the back.

You may have properly set up the correct channel levels and delays
for your four surround channels but even slight differences in surround
sound encoding from one source material to another can throw of an
otherwise good imaging capability of a well calibrated 6.1/7.1 system.

This will mean you will have to occassionally adjust your four surround
channel levels for good imaging everytime you switch from one 6.1/7.1 movie
to another as not all of them have the same channel level balance for
the lateral surrounds and back surrounds.  In short, 6.1/7.1 is just
so easy to mess up that even with a well calibrated system, changing
the source can be all you need to throw off the imaging of an otherwise
well-calibrated system.
 
Just an opinion. 

- Kevlar

[kt]

bro kevlar! yup i agree its hard to configure n setup! n additional gastos pa! hehe so for now 5.1 muna ko...

share naman guys yung may 6.1/7.1 setup dyan...

[jerix]

the benefits of a 6.1 or 7.1 setup may not be true to all HT environment which is the very reason why you have them in the first place. To my mind it all depends on how large your HT area maybe. Hence, having a 5.1 maybe the best for a significantly small HT area and it becomes overkill to use a 7.1 setup in the same. under said environment, it is true that too much of a good thing can be bad.

another thing, the need of another set of surround to your back also depends on the power of the amp to deliver the signal. A generic 5.1 HT with only a 20 w surrounds may not be able to envelop and create the fly around effects- so this condition may warrant the inclusion of another set of surrounds in the center, if technically possible.

[kt]

bro jerix yup tama ka dun! kaso  tempting lang din kasi to try lalo na if your avr is 7.1 ready dba? n so far kasi konti pa nga lang 6.1 sources.

is it ok ba if i go 6.1 pero pang surround speakers parin gamitin ko? kasi im thinking if u go 6.1, u nid to have another center for the rear dba? then if u upgrade to 7.1, di na magamit yung rear center mo...

[jerix]

bro i think the center surround channel does not strctly require a center type of speaker. In fact for DVD-A having similar type of speaker for all channels is recommended. Me, i use the BS type for my surround center left and right, similar to the left and right surrounds. I have a 36 sqm HT area and i feel that i am benefiting from it. Though my surrounds are not the exotic ones, they're all 10" and they can give heavy bass which is good for music purposes.

[kt]

bro! wat yung BS type for surround mo? n ok yan ha 10" for surrounds! i use kasi bipolars for my L & R rears eh...

[jerix]

I think these are regular direct radiating speakers (not so sure with that term) these are my vintage speakers which I bought 20 years ago from my first salary kaya u see the sentimental value for which reason i cant just set aside, dispose or put to rest 

[kt]

bro jerix thats cool vintage pa!

[kt]

btw guys wat wud happen if i set the dts-es 6.1 audio on the avr even if my setup is just 5.1?

[krets pulpol]

btw guys wat wud happen if i set the dts-es 6.1 audio on the avr even if my setup is just 5.1?

none!  it would still be 5.1, try mo ilipat yung center mo sa likod (experiment lang if you want the effect) 

[kt]

wont it be sort of lacking since dapat 6.1 output ng system but i onlt have 5.1?

[krets pulpol]

ndi!  temporary lang of course, try mo lang ma feel kung may surround back kung gusto mo yung effect.  then kung gusto mo, bili ka ng isa pang center 

[kt]

bro krets onga gastos ulit! hehe