Topic: NAD CD Player

[taggart]

A 1-2 year old preowned Rotel CD player is another option.  Nice thing about these preowned expensive stuff is that ,in general, they are well taken cared of by their owners.  Neither abused nor misused, virutually maintaining their pristine conditions.  Ofcourse there are exceptions. 

agree po ako dyan...bought a couple of 2nd hand stuff posted here and they're working well for the price.     

[taggart]

if i had encountered the same problem as mYki, i would have gone to the NCR of DTI and filed a complaint against the dealer and the distributor to enforce my rights under the Consumer Code of the Philippines. with a leverage complaint on their face, i'm sure they will immediately replace the unit instead of hiring a lawyer to defend their cause which would be more costly to them. remember, filing a complaint with the DTI doesn't cost a penny - a letter-complaint with attachment of a photocopy of the receipt will do. 

thanks din for the tip sir.  pag ginanyan ako will know what to do hehe. 

[av_phile1]

if i had encountered the same problem as mYki, i would have gone to the NCR of DTI and filed a complaint against the dealer and the distributor to enforce my rights under the Consumer Code of the Philippines. with a leverage complaint on their face, i'm sure they will immediately replace the unit instead of hiring a lawyer to defend their cause which would be more costly to them. remember, filing a complaint with the DTI doesn't cost a penny - a letter-complaint with attachment of a photocopy of the receipt will do. 

What I heard is that the DTI works to protect the industries and the commercial establishments.  Not the consumers.   That's why the department is called Trade and Industries.  I was tempted to do what you said you'd do last year with my own bout with 5th Ave.  A lawyer friend told me it's useless as they'll only send you on a wild goose chase, so to speak.  The industries have money to bribe the DTI for protection, consumer complainants have none.   I think you're better off with this NGO group called Consumers Union of the Phils.  Is it still alive?  Consumerisim is never active in this country.  Not even close to the consumer rights advocacy in the 70s USA.  That's why local dealers and merchants can always laugh all the the way to the bank depite their defective merchandise and their disregard for warranties with total impugnity.   

The senate is said to be working on a bill called anti-lemon law, meant  to protect consumers, acknowledging the very limited role of the DTI and exsting laws for consumer protection. 

[av_phile1]

Also I would like to think that a community like Pinoy DVD should be able to exercise some clout over these vendors with unsavory aftersales practices.   I also would like to think that this community can go to the aid of its members who are unjustly aggrieved.  That's why problems like those of myKi are aired and given disucssion merits in this forum.  Or at least prevent the same injustice from happenning to other members.

Boycotting products of such errant vendors is one muscle we can flex.   That probably won't do much damage, considering that very few audiophiles are members of this community.  But at least they'd know we mean business as a community  who can come to the aid of its  members or prevent such injustice to happen to fellow members.  Just a suggestion.

[Garp]

Consumers Union of...Pinoydvd? Ngek.  No to boycott but yes by all means lets warn prospective buyers of the risks when buying from the same distributor.

[av_phile1]

Na...forget it. I guess those distributors just carry gears too appealing for PinoyDVDers to boycott.  Warning others will hardly matter.  It's the attitudes of these vendors that should change.  Nothing but a boycott will make them realize their folly.  But that's too much to ask.  The next time someone airs a similar plaint, i'll just shrug my shoulders.  Afterall, it's passive consumers that allow such vendors to laugh all the way to the bank at our expense.   

[kimpao]

i plan to get a cd player. but your LIMITED warranty is limiting me. will it be possible for you to post how can one MISUSE a cd player?

kinda wondering why using cd-r's are considered as mis-use when in fact it's written clear in the manual or even NAD's website boldly says that you can  use it with cdrs'.  from NAD's website, writeup about c521bee and c542
 
"Creating one’s own favourite compilation CD-R and CD-RW’s on a CD Recorder is becoming ever more popular, and unlike ordinary CD players, the C521BEE will easily play these discs."

the manual it says that

"CD-R & CD-RW AUDIO DISCS
The C 521BEE can play back CD-R & CD-RW audio discs that have been
recorded on a computer or CD-recorder. The quality of CD-R audio discs
varies widely which may affect playability.
Some factors that affect playability:
• The quality of the disc itself. Generally speaking, CD-R & CD-RW
blanks from well-renowned companies give better results than
unbranded ones.
• The quality of CD-recorder or computer CD re/writer. Some
recorders and writers produce better results than others.
• The CD-R & CD-RW was created with high-speed writing. In general,
the quality of a CD-R & CD-RW is better when produced at a lower
speed against a higher speed on the same recorder or re/writer.
DISC PLAYABILITY
This CD Player is designed to play musical program material only, on CD,
CD-R, and CD-RW discs recorded in the 16 bit 44.1 kHz PCM Compact
Disc format. It is not designed to play any other disc format, or discs with
data or pictures.
WARNING: Attempting to play discs with non-musical programs may
result in damage to your playback system.

nothing says that it "may result in damaging your player". 

[redkoji]

What is Limited Warranty of NAD products

Studio System's brand being carried such as NAD has 1 year  warranty as against labor and parts. However, this does not extend to any damaged or defects resulting to misuse, tampering, neglect or abuse and other natural causes ( Example : The unit was infested by insects or it has been soak by water due to poor rain water drainage of house or the area has been flooded )

All units that will be claiming warranty are subject to pre-evaluation to determine the cause of such defect or damage. As per experience, there are a lot of cases that the items that have been tampered by the customer or have been subject to misused. If that will be the case then the warranty is voided. Yes if sa US po nangyari such incedent, walang tanong tanong and they will replaced it immediately. This is the same reason why this stuff are more expensive in the US or even Australia. Distributors or Manufacturer are passing on the expenses of such irresponsible claiming of warranty to customer without them knowing that.

To all our customer, we advice then to have it brought directly to us since this will lessen the time travel from dealers to us. Beside, since most of this unit are no longer in good condition package, further damage can occur during the transportation and this is no longer our responsibility. We also ask some questions to determine the extent of the damage was caused by the customer itself or inherent defect.

As to being responsible distributor, we are trying to follow  the international standard of customer service. However there are cases that we cannot do so because situation here in the Philippines are not as the same as in other countries.

Like in the case of the T-752, "BUG" in the operating system, all of its buyers have been properly treated. There are buyers which opted the have the problematic chip be replaced and we have done it without any charged. There are some who opted for a refund and we did just that. And there are some who opted to upgrade to higher model and we also honor such incident. Unlike MASS MARKET BRANDS, we do not stock parts since this will add on the cost of operation, which will be later pass-on to consumer. Mass Market brands minimally pass this to consumer because of the scale or quantity they are selling here in our Country. We wish it will be the same for NAD, but its not.

In the CD Player case, the charges of P4,500.00 is not yet final since we have not yet received the costing from NAD. The result of this is pending depending on NAD action to our request. There are times that we waved our expenses or just charged the duties imposed by the government.


We hope this clarify the matter and if you have further questions please post it through the General section.. 

[redkoji]

In the used of CD-R's and CD-RW as misuse?

There is such as thing called international standard in the manufacturing of CD-R, CD-RW and DVD-R.
However with the influx of Generic CD's and DVD's quality problems occur.

At NAD, CD-R or CD-RW which follows international standard will be played easily...however we cannot guarranty if that will be the case on generic CD-R and CD-RW....this will fall as misuse  caused by Cd-R and CD-RW
.

[jcob]

sir redkoji let's stick to the case of sir myki. may we ask for an expalnation why it was not covered by your so called "LIMITED WARRANTY". From my reading, I believed there was no misused, abused or tamperring of the product. Maybe you should change the title to NAD "VERY LIMITED WARRANTY".

[Garp]

Na...forget it. I guess those distributors just carry gears too appealing for PinoyDVDers to boycott.  Warning others will hardly matter.  It's the attitudes of these vendors that should change.  Nothing but a boycott will make them realize their folly.  But that's too much to ask.  The next time someone airs a similar plaint, i'll just shrug my shoulders.  Afterall, it's passive consumers that allow such vendors to laugh all the way to the bank at our expense.   

Whether or not to boycott should be decided at the individual level. Contrary to being merely passive, I'm arguing for more active fact-finding on the part of the buyer. Let the buyer beware as they say. I'm not going to go around this forum and tell people boycott to this distributor. Instead, ok here are the facts..here's a great product but the dealer has lousy service, now decide for yourself, is NAD such a good value investment that you're willing to accept the risk of lousy post-sales service?

[audioslave]

In the used of CD-R's and CD-RW as misuse?

There is such as thing called international standard in the manufacturing of CD-R, CD-RW and DVD-R.
However with the influx of Generic CD's and DVD's quality problems occur.

At NAD, CD-R or CD-RW which follows international standard will be played easily...however we cannot guarranty if that will be the case on generic CD-R and CD-RW....this will fall as misuse  caused by Cd-R and CD-RW
.

yun naman pala eh!! don't use inferior or generic CD-Rs and CD-RWs. or else they will fall under the "misuse clause" thus giving them reasons to void your LIMITED WARRANTY. i also recalled a long time ago that my NAD C521i had difficulty reading these inferior CD-Rs costing between P7.00-P15.00. but if i plugged in the branded ones, they can be swiftly read just like an ordinary CD. from then onwards, i stopped buying CD copies in CD-Rs and only use original recorded CD softwares.

in short, don't scrimp on CD-Rs or if you have the means, buy your music in CDs. if you indulge yourself in this kind of hobby, be prepared to spend, otherwise, just buy yourself a DVD Player and play your music in CD-Rs.

DVD Players are more forgiving

[jcob]

In the used of CD-R's and CD-RW as misuse?

There is such as thing called international standard in the manufacturing of CD-R, CD-RW and DVD-R.
However with the influx of Generic CD's and DVD's quality problems occur.

At NAD, CD-R or CD-RW which follows international standard will be played easily...however we cannot guarranty if that will be the case on generic CD-R and CD-RW....this will fall as misuse caused by Cd-R and CD-RW
.

Sir, I'd like to let you know that I'm using this kind of CD-R's and CD-RW with my Pioneer DVD player. It's not even a CD player, I'm using it almost 2 to 3 hours a day for more than 2 years with this kind of CD's and I have'nt had any problems.

If a NAD CD player cannot do this I think your product is inferior as compared to my Pioneer, at least in the durability issue. Your NAD  may sound good, but how long it will last (6 months - too short) I'd rather look for other brands. By the way my  Pioneer is only 1/3 of the price of your CD player.

[redkoji]

sir redkoji let's stick to the case of sir myki. may we ask for an expalnation why it was not covered by your so called "LIMITED WARRANTY". From my reading, I believed there was no misused, abused or tamperring of the product. Maybe you should change the title to NAD "VERY LIMITED WARRANTY".

Dear Jcob,

If the user said that he has not misused, abused or tampered the product, then theres no problem we shall honor the warranty. However, the case of his unit is not yet final and the charged of P4,500.00 is subject to changes depending our request to NAD itself. Moreover, we clearly inform him that this is rough estimate since NAD doesn't have standard pricing issued for every parts in their products. So far we have not yet received a reply for such item. In the meantime, we have provided a brand new unit for him to used, since we don't have a similar model being displayed for our disposal.

As per policy of NAD or most manufacturer in the US, if the product has inherent defect it shall show within 90 days from purchased and immediate replacement maybe done, after initial pre-evaluation.

The so called "Very limited warranty" is the same policy being carried by any mass market brand here in the Philippines....Just like to ask if any distributor here have provided service unit at the distributors expense?

[Garp]

Redkoji,

Glad you're here to give your side of things. Ok, let me see if I understand this. I'm confused by your posts. Are you saying that you're waiting for NAD to pronounce judgement on whether or not the unit was misued? If it shows that it wasn't misued, then the warranty becomes in effect then mYki gets back the P4,500 plus a new or refurbished player?

[jcob]

Dear Jcob,

If the user said that he has not misused, abused or tampered the product, then theres no problem we shall honor the warranty. However, the case of his unit is not yet final and the charged of P4,500.00 is subject to changes depending our request to NAD itself. Moreover, we clearly inform him that this is rough estimate since NAD doesn't have standard pricing issued for every parts in their products. So far we have not yet received a reply for such item. In the meantime, we have provided a brand new unit for him to used, since we don't have a similar model being displayed for our disposal.

As per policy of NAD or most manufacturer in the US, if the product has inherent defect it shall show within 90 days from purchased and immediate replacement maybe done, after initial pre-evaluation.

The so called "Very limited warranty" is the same policy being carried by any mass market brand here in the Philippines....Just like to ask if any distributor here have provided service unit at the distributors expense?

Maybe you can point NAD to this thread and have your request granted, so that MYKI won't have to pay anything.

It's true most distributors here don't provide service unit or even worst totally ignore you. But that's not the point, besides your player is much more expensive than most mass market brands. And I have'nt read or heard any other brands or dealers with similar case  as that of  myki, except for the one mentioned by sir av_phile1. Should this thing happens to other mass market brands we'll also talk about it. At this point, none.

Don't get me wrong, we just want protection from the things we'd like to buy. Did'nt you notice, there's a lot of members here who would like to buy your product, specially this CD player. If I were the owner of Studio Systems, I'll rather absorb the 5k pesos than to be bad mouth by members of a big community such as this forum or website. 5K I'm sure kayang kayang kitain yan, but the damage cause by this (wether you're right or wrong) may not be erased.

I hope you understand what I meant.

[bumblebee]

In the used of CD-R's and CD-RW as misuse?

There is such as thing called international standard in the manufacturing of CD-R, CD-RW and DVD-R.
However with the influx of Generic CD's and DVD's quality problems occur.

At NAD, CD-R or CD-RW which follows international standard will be played easily...however we cannot guarranty if that will be the case on generic CD-R and CD-RW....this will fall as misuse  caused by Cd-R and CD-RW
.

i can't see how generic cdr's can damage a cd player. either the player reads it or not. that's it.

[redkoji]

As for the finality of the damaged CD player in question, we shall post its results in this web site, in layman's term....Moreover, we have not collected a single centavo from the user.....

In regards to our service, Studio Systems personnel came different multi-national companies and we are trying to adopt best policy we been into that is fitting for the industry we are right now. We always put in our minds that we also a consumer and its normal to ask responsibile questions and complaint.

[synchro]

....Just like to ask if any distributor here have provided service unit at the distributors expense?

Listening in Style bro.  A few years ago when our A/V processor's remote control broke down they lent us a brand new, completely sealed high end model Yamaha A/V receiver...no questions asked.  Our A/V processor back then was 3 years old and its warranty has lapsed already but the people in Listening went the extra mile and lent us a brand new Yamaha service unit aside from facilitating the repair of the defective part of our A/V receiver.  Since then we bought many types of gears from them....amps, speakers, cables, CD's and what have you.  we are very happy with their customer service. To me that plays a very big part in obtaining future business from your present customers.  If they are happy...they will keep coming back.

Here is another case of going the extra mile to please the customer... If i remember it correctly, PDVD member MYKI (yes...of the NAD brouhaha  ) just recently bought a brand new pair of Dynaudio speakers from LIS. after a week or so of using it in his place, he found out that the speakers that he bought were kinda small for his application so he decided to return them and trade up to the next higher model.  guess what?  LIS people agreed and he only paid for the price difference between the two speaker models. is that good service or what?

redkoji

is it possible for us PDVD consumers to buy brand new speakers from your shop and if we dont like how they sound after a week or so would you be willing to replace them to a higher or lower model in your lineup and we will only get to pay for their price difference?   

[Gino]

Well, we can rant all we want, non-Nad users as well as I can see. But regardless of all the arguments presented thus far, one thing is very clear, you better think twice before buying a NAD product in this country. It is quite clear that NAD owners will not have the piece of mind now. It is also not surprising that a few barely used NAD products have made it to audio specialty shops for resale. Is the word getting around? Ah, something to watch.

And, oh, also pass around that NAD cannot play cd-rs. That certainly limits your market. Excellent work man.

[av_phile1]

What is Limited Warranty of NAD products

Studio System's brand being carried such as NAD has 1 year  warranty as against labor and parts. However, this does not extend to any damaged or defects resulting to misuse, tampering, neglect or abuse and other natural causes ( Example : The unit was infested by insects or it has been soak by water due to poor rain water drainage of house or the area has been flooded )

That should clear the air.  So it's ONE YEAR PARTS and LABOR.  So what is that nitwit that myKI talked to saying only 6 months parts and 1 year labor???

Every warranty has such statements.  But what is your competence to determine that a unit has been MISUSED and ABUSED?   Who are you to question the customer?  And how dare you insult a customer by making such an hasty judgement that he misued and abused an equipment? 

It seems you and your ilk will always hide behind such clauses.  That's the most prudent business practice.  But certainly far from being customer oriented.  That is why inspite of such clauses, US dealers just replace defective or non-working units.  No Questions Asked.  As long it falls within the warranty period.  PERIOD.  They do not have to second guess the customer.

All units that will be claiming warranty are subject to pre-evaluation to determine the cause of such defect or damage. As per experience, there are a lot of cases that the items that have been tampered by the customer or have been subject to misused. If that will be the case then the warranty is voided. Yes if sa US po nangyari such incedent, walang tanong tanong and they will replaced it immediately. This is the same reason why this stuff are more expensive in the US or even Australia. Distributors or Manufacturer are passing on the expenses of such irresponsible claiming of warranty to customer without them knowing that.

Excuse me, that is not "irresponsible claiming of warranty."   That is the reuslt of enlightened consumer protection in first world  countries that uphold and protect the right of the consumer against profit oriented businesses like you.  Now I understand where you and your kind are coming from.  You have to subject the customer to some kind of Gestapo questioning.  Don't ever claim that you are customer oriented.

We also ask some questions to determine the extent of the damage was caused by the customer itself or inherent defect.

By what standards will you determine this?  How presumptuous.  Such attitudes are presicely what predicated consumer advocacy groups in the 70s US.

As to being responsible distributor, we are trying to follow  the international standard of customer service. However there are cases that we cannot do so because situation here in the Philippines are not as the same as in other countries.

In other words you take the most caution against your own race.  You belittle Filipino consumers and assume the worst.  You insult the intelligence of Pinoy audiophiles who buy expensive products and treat them as if they were buying cheap products.  And assume they'll put one over you when claiming warranties.   How revealling.   You prefer to protect your business by assuming the worst from your clients. Thank you.

Like in the case of the T-752, "BUG" in the operating system, all of its buyers have been properly treated. There are buyers which opted the have the problematic chip be replaced and we have done it without any charged. There are some who opted for a refund and we did just that.

You should distinguish between a product RECALL and individual warranty claim.  It doens't give you merit that you replaced a proven LEMON.  Most likely you got the directive from your NAD principal.  A defective component that has been recognized to be common to a paritcular brand merits nothing less than a product recall.  Many cars in in Europe and the US do that.

A warranty claim for something that has failed during a warranty period is a true test of what customer-oriented aftersales service is all about.  And you failed miserably.

And there are some who opted to upgrade to higher model and we also honor such incident. Unlike MASS MARKET BRANDS, we do not stock parts since this will add on the cost of operation, which will be later pass-on to consumer. Mass Market brands minimally pass this to consumer because of the scale or quantity they are selling here in our Country. We wish it will be the same for NAD, but its not.

What a lame excuse.  A company's internal policies and procedures are not the concern of consumers.  When they pay for a gear, they are assured that its attending warranties will be honored.  They don't care whether you stock parts or not.  Your price is supposed to take care of that.  Now you're telling us that because you don't stock parts and your price is lower than in Australia and the US, your customers should expect lousy aftersales?

In the CD Player case, the charges of P4,500.00 is not yet final since we have not yet received the costing from NAD. The result of this is pending depending on NAD action to our request. There are times that we waved our expenses or just charged the duties imposed by the government.

This is another lame excuse.  A simple long distance call to the NAD head office is enough to give you a price list of their parts and a DHL delivery thereof.  But that would be asking too much from a dealer who will not go the extra mile for a customer.  I find it funny that you should even brag about waving expenses or duties.  YOU should at ALL times.  The customer is NOT supposed to pay anything when claiming warranties during the warranty period.  

[redkoji]

In regards to service....

We have some policy that we follow but this is not absolute because we always consider customer satisfaction. The policy we create are flexible and meant only as guide so that there will not be chaos in our operations.

We have previous customer that his unit was a very old NAD which came from Singapore and needed repair. The cost of the repair is around P3,500.00. The owner is willing to have it repair because of its sentimental value for him. Due to miscommunication from NAD, the parts was sent to a different country, thus the repair was delayed. When the repairing was done...we gave our service as FREE as for the inconvenience he had suffered.

As to upgrading a unit, we have encountered some cases like it....to some of the cases we do allow but to some cases we don't....We intend to give our customer brand new units...miski sabihin po natin na this was just opened and used for 3 hours....it will not be considered as brand new...if we are going to sell it to another customer medyo at the same standard pricing medyo unfair po sa kanya....to avoid such incident, there are times that we let the customer used our display unit for 4 days....especially the higher price models in his own place...pag nagustuhan nya then his ordered brand new units will be scheduled for delivery. Medyo selective lang nga po kami since, we are at risk here na baka biglang mawala yun at tangay ang amin products....and the same time limited lang po yun demo units namin because we don't want this to affect our operational cost....we are concerned with our cost because all our transaction are legal....we pay the right taxes....then we intend to lower our selling price....kaya po mahirap magbalance...we hope you understand our situation.

[av_phile1]

i can't see how generic cdr's can damage a cd player. either the player reads it or not. that's it.

I totally agree. 

But that may be beside the point. 

Assuming for a second that generics are the culprit, ff the dealer can somehow time-travel in the past and visit the customer's home and catch the customer in the act of feeding a generic CD-R into the player, then he can rightly conclude that the customer indeed used generic CD-Rs and arguably proclaim misuse.

[redkoji]

As for now, we thank all your commentaries regarding our policy on customer service....or non-customer service if you like to call it that way...we shall consider all things you have said and consider it in our operation.

Technical evaluation for the CD Player in questions shall be posted soon.

[obey]

I still think that the relevant question to the dealer is " Will playing generic cd-rs be able to destroy a cd player's DAC?". 

[redkoji]

I still think that the relevant question to the dealer is " Will playing generic cd-rs be able to destroy a cd player's DAC?". 

We shall also be publishing the effects on non standard CD-R and CD-RW in future post.

[bumblebee]

We shall also be publishing the effects on non standard CD-R and CD-RW in future post.

being a software guy, i can only think of one. and that's about readability. either info is read or not.

the ff is from NAD's FAQ section.

Why does my CD player not play CD-R and CD-RW discs? back to top

Many people are baffled, and often frustrated, by the fact that CD-Rs (recordable CD's) will not always play back on CD players. And CD-RWs ("rewritable" CD-Rs) almost never play back on a conventional CD player. Some discs will play on some players but not others. Often there is no correlation between the price of the CD player and its ability to read CD-R's. Older CD players were designed before the advent of CD-R and are less likely to work. The problem occurs because of "defects" or missing information on the CD-R, or incompatibility between recorder and player. Unlike the older analogue recording technology, in which incompatibilities would manifest themselves as poor sound quality, digital recordings that are not "perfect" just won't play.

So why do some players play certain discs even with defects and yet others don't? It often boils down to the type of defect. The data stream is created by shining a laser at the spinning disc focused on a shiny substrate under the plastic outer sheathing. The shiny layer has tiny pits that interrupt the reflection and create the data stream; think of a strobe light that can very quickly change its rate of flashing. The types of defect encountered can include the reflectivity (is it shiny enough?), the depth of the pits, the width of the pits, the rate of spiral, and whether the outer plastic sheathing is blocking the reflection (scratch or smudge). A player that can read through a smudge may be foiled by shallow pit depth, and a player that can read a shallow pit may have trouble with pits that are poorly shaped, etc. Some players can "get a read" on some defects but not others.

All CD players employ error correction circuitry to "cover up" any missing information. This circuitry works by looking at the information both before and after the defect, and filling in with "probable" information. Since the missing information is usually short in duration, we don't notice that we are listening to probable rather than exact information. If too much information is missing, the player will mute until it starts receiving a good data stream again. This makes a "clicking" or "popping" sound as the player quickly mutes and unmutes.
Defects are far more prevalent on CD-R's than on regular CD's. Why? Because a prerecorded CD is made from a precision master and the reflective layer is stamped giving a very accurate (usually) pit shape and profile. CD-R and CD-RW also have a different (lower) reflectivity than regular CD's, requiring a different laser characteristic to properly read them. And since they are "burned in" using a laser to alter the surface of the substrate, the size, shape, and depth of the pits is not as precise. The quality of the blank disc also plays a major role in the quality of the final product, as does the speed at which the disc is recorded. A general recommendation cannot be given on which blank discs to use, since each CD recorder has its own requirements.

Not surprisingly, the machine that recorded the CD-R will give the most accurate playback.

Some tips for making compatible CD-R's

1. Use high quality blanks (there are "reject" discs available at low prices).

2. For best results use "professional grade" blank CD-R discs. These have been verified not to have defects.

3. Record at 1X speed. High-speed recording results in more defects. If making the disc on a computer drive, remember to "finalize" the disc. Discs that are not finalized will not have the requisite information for a CD player to recognise the disc as a valid disc.

the defects mentioned pertained to defects in the data stream w/c results from the use of inferior media and the player reacts to this accordingly (mutes and unmutes).

no mention of physical damage anywhere.

[mYKi]

As for the finality of the damaged CD player in question, we shall post its results in this web site, in layman's term....Moreover, we have not collected a single centavo from the user.....

You know, this thread is becoming to get ugly. Let's all relax.

Redkoji, you have to coordinate well with your dealer, Sights and Sounds. You mentioned that you have not collected a single centavo from me. You're right since Sights and Sounds collected 450,000 centavos (P4,500) before they can release the replacement unit. Also, they didn't give me the box and packaging. No problem.

Also, when I talked to Sights and Sounds, they said they only have 6 months warranty on parts, 12 months on labor for NAD. This was in fine print in their own warranty card which somehow overrides your 1 year limited warranty which you are claiming.

They said that my unit went over the 6 months warranty by a few days so I have to pay the P5,000 for parts. You said that I was still covered by warranty, but that I misused my unit by using inferior CD-Rs. You also mentioned that it was specifically caused when I was playing a CD-R and that an error happened, and that I let the error continue for a long period of time. I told you I have no recollection of such thing happening. Unless my cd player can talk and lie, I don't know how you were so sure of what caused the breakage.

Anyway, thank you since I am now enjoying the wonderful sound of my cd player again. If NAD International contacts you and they decide to shoulder the $80 for you, will I still be able to get a refund of my P4,500?

I understand your point. You want to keep your costs down so you can still be competitive with the smugglers. And I hope you understand our point that we want exceptional service like that in the U.S. for exceptional name brands like NAD.

As for Listening in Style, I have to agree that they give exceptional service. They made me replace my Dynaudio Audience 42 into a 52 no questions asked.

Also, with Samsung, my DLP TV had this very slight defect wherein I would see internal reflections during dark scenes. My TV was 3 months old and they replaced it with a brand new unit. They also gave me a service unit for a week since they ran out of stock of the DLP. After 1 year and 1 month, the color wheel in my DLP started to make noise. It was already after the 1 year warranty. Guess what? They replaced the mirror wheel and all internal fans for free! And it was after the warranty period. After that, I'm hooked to Samsung. I just bought a second TV for my kids and it's a Samsung.

I'm still hoping that NAD International assists you. Ms. Karen Pritchard sent me an e-mail that she forwarded my concern to the Sales Manager, Mr. John Tan.

[jcob]

clearly these are excuses this distributor normally give to their ignorant client. I just don't know how  they can  come-up with a technical report if the whole Audio circuit of the CD player was burned. I bet even the designer of that CD player wouldn't know specifically what cause or causes the problem.

[j3d]

shoot out na to ng mga standard cdr and non standard cdr....