Author Topic: NAD CD Player (Read 109241 times)

av_phile1 · « **Reply #330 on:** Mar 04, 2005 at 01:43 PM »

Quote from: obey on Mar 04, 2005 at 12:39 PM

I still think that the relevant question to the dealer is " Will playing generic cd-rs be able to destroy a cd player's DAC?".

You may want to independently research on this issue. So far I have not encountered any reputable white paper or technical write-up that claims they do. I have no idea what is meant by standard and non-standard CD-Rs and RWs. ALL CD-Rs, CD-RWs and CD-ROMs, whether generic or branded, conform to the Philips/Sony Yellow Book. If not, they will not record. And if they can't record, they will not play. And the player will simply reject them, any player.

Admittedly there are CD-Rs that will play on one machine but not on others. That's more a function of the laser's power ability to read certain dyes in CD-Rs.

bumblebee · « **Reply #331 on:** Mar 04, 2005 at 01:47 PM »

Quote from: j3d on Mar 04, 2005 at 01:42 PM

shoot out na to ng mga standard cdr and non standard cdr....

tapos flame wars uli

parang generic and branded cables

av_phile1 · « **Reply #332 on:** Mar 04, 2005 at 02:27 PM »

Quote from: mYKi on Mar 04, 2005 at 01:33 PM

And I hope you understand our point that we want exceptional service like that in the U.S. for exceptional name brands like NAD.

You hit it right on the head - something dealers probably don't understand. Their priorities are keeping the cost low. That includes mimimizing warranty claims.

redkoji · « **Reply #333 on:** Mar 04, 2005 at 03:36 PM »

Dear Mr. mKYi,

We stand by our word, that we have not collected any single centavo from you nor we have billed Sights & Sounds for the estimate. The P5,000 is the maximum repair cost cap, and it is just a ball park figure. Maybe, its an error for our part to give such figure, but this is the standard maximum limit we want to set for any charges we give to our customer. But relatively, none of our customer have been charged with that rate.

As for immediate charging, we have only one rule, which covers the non-warranty product (coming from other countries or the warranty has already lapsed). We charged the customer P350.00 as for pre-evaluation cost. This is non-refundable, but will be credited to the bill of the customer when he decided to have it repaired. This policy was only enforced 2nd half of 2004, but most of the time being waived, if the customer brought the unit to our office.

In regards for the warranty, all the brands we carry have 1 year Free labor and parts. There are cases we waived this rule, if we see that lapsed period is not that long. So far, most of the units we have repaired are old customer units, the oldest is 12 years old model. As for the new models it is less than 0.06% of our total unit sold, have come back to us for any repair. The warranty given is based on the date of Invoice that dealer have given you, not on the date we have sold the unit to the dealers.

As to having a brand new unit be given to you temporarily while you are waiting to have your unit be repaired, it is Mr. Ronald of Studio Systems that instructed Sight & Sounds. That decision, was reached even if Studio has not yet received your unit. As for the conversation with you and Mr. Ronald, there was wrong information that was sent to him. This is the reason, when you ask him that about no audio out on the analog, he told you, that technical part will be answered by his technical staff. As for the payment you have given to Sight & Sounds, we will persuade them to return the payment.

As to other end-user of NAD, we encourage you to bring your unit directly to us to avoid in the delayed of having it delivered back to us. Moreover, some questions shall be immediately answered and lessen miscommunication.

As for our after-sales service, we are continuing our efforts to improved it. We acknowledged that is still far from what we have conceptualized under NAD. Others might think that we are just merely considering in keeping to cost low, but our overall objective is far more than that. The benefit for our customer might not be obvious for now, but its realization will be sooner.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #334 on:** Mar 04, 2005 at 04:02 PM »

Quote from: redkoji on Mar 04, 2005 at 03:36 PM

As for the new models it is less than 0.06% of our total unit sold, have come back to us for any repair.

My goodness, napakaliit naman pala ng percentage ng returns, hindi ninyo pa mapaligaya yung customer sa aftersales. You should ask your boss to send all of your sales and operations staff to a customer management seminar and learn by heart and deed about Delighting the Customer or Exceeding Customer Expectation.

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The warranty given is based on the date of Invoice that dealer have given you, not on the date we have sold the unit to the dealers.

OFCOURSE, no distributor counts the warranty start on the sale to dealers. Only the date on the sales receipt to customers.

Quote

As to having a brand new unit be given to you temporarily while you are waiting to have your unit be repaired, it is Mr. Ronald of Studio Systems that instructed Sight & Sounds.

Uy, bago yun ha. Temporary lang pala. I thought myKi got a brand new replacement for 4.5T. Ibabalik pa pala after ma-repair yung old.

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That decision, was reached even if Studio has not yet received your unit. As for the conversation with you and Mr. Ronald, there was wrong information that was sent to him. This is the reason, when you ask him that about no audio out on the analog, he told you, that technical part will be answered by his technical staff. As for the payment you have given to Sight & Sounds, we will persuade them to return the payment.

Return the payment. Period. The replacement unit remains in myki's hands And we'll forget about this brouhaha.

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As for our after-sales service, we are continuing our efforts to improved it. We acknowledged that is still far from what we have conceptualized under NAD. Others might think that we are just merely considering in keeping to cost low, but our overall objective is far more than that. The benefit for our customer might not be obvious for now, but its realization will be sooner.

Yup, maybe. Your objective may be higher than keeping the cost down. But it certainly hasn't come up to speed as far as being customer-oriented is concerned. Try harder. You can start now. Not sooner.

obey · « **Reply #335 on:** Mar 04, 2005 at 05:11 PM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Mar 04, 2005 at 01:43 PM

So far I have not encountered any reputable white paper or technical write-up that claims they do. I have no idea what is meant by standard and non-standard CD-Rs and RWs. ALL CD-Rs, CD-RWs and CD-ROMs, whether generic or branded, conform to the Philips/Sony Yellow Book. If not, they will not record. And if they can't record, they will not play. And the player will simply reject them, any player.

Admittedly there are CD-Rs that will play on one machine but not on others. That's more a function of the laser's power ability to read certain dyes in CD-Rs.

Exactly what my point is Av_phile1

redkoji · « **Reply #336 on:** Mar 04, 2005 at 06:55 PM »

Thanks for your comments Mr. Av_phile1, rest assured all things that was stated here in the site shall be consider for our future after-sales service operation.

As per No Audio Out on Analog defect of the CD-Player case of mKYi, we shall issued a technical report on it and the earliest will be next week.

On the CD-R and CD-RW causing damaged to the player a separate report will also be issued on it.

We acknowledged that wrong information was given to Mr. Ronald during phone conversation with Mr. mKYi and that?s the reason why, Mr. Ronald said to Mr. mKYi, ?that part his Technical staff will answer his question on the No Audio Out.? .
We don?t judged our customer nor hide through those warranty clauses. If we make
Mr. mKYi feel that way during conversation with one of STUDIO personnel its not our intention and we apologized for that.

bruno · « **Reply #337 on:** Mar 04, 2005 at 09:27 PM »

Manufacturers should be enthusiastic in dealing with these kind of incidents, as this will provide vital information on improving their products' reliability on future models.

levi · « **Reply #338 on:** Mar 05, 2005 at 02:45 AM »

I think enough has been said. Lets go back to the topic and just wait for further developments. Everyone is hoping for a win-win situation.

mYKi · « **Reply #339 on:** Mar 05, 2005 at 07:52 AM »

Levi,

I agree. Sights and Sounds is also to blame for all the miscommunication but it is only Studio System who is bearing the flak. Ceasefire na muna.

Redkoji,

If my other NAD player breaks, I'll surely go direct to you. I suggest that you have a custom warranty card that you can print and include with the unit to inform the owner where your service center or office is. We hope that your customer service and coordination with your dealers will improve based from this experience. I'm sure you understand that if I bought a P4,000 Kenko player I wouldn't even mind about service, but a P20,000 NAD player makes me feel that I deserve better service.

Again, I'm hoping for a win-win situation. I'll contact Sights and Sounds if I can get my P4,500 back. Grabe naman sa garapal itong Sights and Sounds! I even bought my entire B&W set from them, as well as 1 dvd player and 2 nad cd players! They got my money even if you haven't billed them! I will never buy from them again. Not to mention that they don't have the best price but since Shangri-La is very accessible to me, I buy there.

dakila7 · « **Reply #340 on:** Mar 05, 2005 at 05:52 PM »

i agree with myKi... this topic is becoming an eyesore... sagwa nang basahin eh, besides Myki had let this slipped a couple of pages ago... it seems that there are posters here who trivialize the matter too much. guys (specially the mods) let's put an end to this thread this isn't going anywhere -- o ang makisawsaw pa dito KSP na.

peace out.

j3d · « **Reply #341 on:** Mar 06, 2005 at 11:50 AM »

Quote from: dakila7 on Mar 05, 2005 at 05:52 PM

i agree with myKi... this topic is becoming an eyesore... sagwa nang basahin eh, besides Myki had let this slipped a couple of pages ago... it seems that there are posters here who trivialize the matter too much. guys (specially the mods) let's put an end to this thread this isn't going anywhere -- o ang makisawsaw pa dito KSP na.

peace out.

Imo this is a good discussion, not an eyesore. This is where you learn about warranties and all about consumer protection. Be thankful that you're not experiencing any problems with your stuff kung ano baka ikaw ang nagbigay buhay sa thread na to ndi si myki. This is no laughing matter.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #342 on:** Mar 07, 2005 at 09:53 AM »

I agree with j3d. Myki can let it go, he has his reasons. But for as long as there are dealers out there who prefer to mock warranty claims by assuming their customers are so stupid as to misuse and abuse their merchandise, you won't hear the end of it from me.

And it is precisely this passive attitude of customers that allow such customer-apathetic dealers to walk all the way to the bank at your expense with impugnity. In the US and Europe, customers will most likely haul such offensive dealers to the courts. And consumer rights are so strong there because there were people in the past who cried foul over such unfair practices, sufficiently loud enough to merit legislation. No wonder consumerism is non-existent in this country. Piinoys seem to prefer to gloss over "eyesores."

Gino · « **Reply #343 on:** Mar 07, 2005 at 12:49 PM »

I totally agree. Let's remember that this experience and the direction the thread went is not only relevant to the original complainant. It is relevant to other manufacturers as well. Learn from this.

Though it may appear as an eyesore, well certainly not to me, one can see a positive turn of events for for the complainant.

taggart · « **Reply #344 on:** Mar 07, 2005 at 04:33 PM »

can't agree more with the last 3 posts...this thread rules! let's hope NAD int'l resolves this in a satisfactory manner so i don't need to say a prayer everytime i use my NAD player.

redkoji · « **Reply #345 on:** Mar 09, 2005 at 06:20 PM »

We do welcome any complains being address here and we don't think its an eyesore.

You may all know that most of the brands we carried here in the Philippines has no prioir distributor. Some of them went here to investigate our capability in taking care of their brand. We believe they are satisfied that we are capable in doing so.

There are some misgivings in our operation, however its not the rule.

Reymer · « **Reply #346 on:** Mar 10, 2005 at 12:30 AM »

Natatakot

na tuloy ako gamitin NAD C542 ko which I bought last December.

I would like to share my experience with my Pioneer dvd player. It also carried 1 year warranty, and 10 DAYS (Nad guys, pls. read) BEFORE THE WARRANTY EXPIRED, it broke down. The unit wouldnt turn ON (I knew it was my fault because I forgot to unplug the unit for 2 DAYS). But nevertheless, I immediately brought it to the Pioneer service center in Buendia. After 7 DAYS the unit was repaired. They even showed me the NEW POWER SUPPLY UNIT (they replaced the whole power supply circuit board rather than repair it.) that they installed BEFORE THEY CLOSED AND SEALED THE UNIT. I WAS NEVER CHARGED A SINGLE CENTAVO. That was 2 years ago and my player is still OK. NAD GUYS, KAYA NYO BA 'YON?

kimpao · « **Reply #347 on:** Mar 10, 2005 at 01:14 AM »

Quote from: Reymer on Mar 10, 2005 at 12:30 AM

Natatakot na tuloy ako gamitin NAD C542 ko which I bought last December.

I would like to share my experience with my Pioneer dvd player. It also carried 1 year warranty, and 10 DAYS (Nad guys, pls. read) BEFORE THE WARRANTY EXPIRED, it broke down. The unit wouldnt turn ON (I knew it was my fault because I forgot to unplug the unit for 2 DAYS). But nevertheless, I immediately brought it to the Pioneer service center in Buendia. After 7 DAYS the unit was repaired. They even showed me the NEW POWER SUPPLY UNIT (they replaced the whole power supply circuit board rather than repair it.) that they installed BEFORE THEY CLOSED AND SEALED THE UNIT. I WAS NEVER CHARGED A SINGLE CENTAVO. That was 2 years ago and my player is still OK. NAD GUYS, KAYA NYO BA 'YON?

Now that is what I call aftersales support.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #348 on:** Mar 10, 2005 at 09:42 AM »

Quote from: redkoji on Mar 09, 2005 at 06:20 PM

We do welcome any complains being address here and we don't think its an eyesore.

You may all know that most of the brands we carried here in the Philippines has no prioir distributor. Some of them went here to investigate our capability in taking care of their brand. We believe they are satisfied that we are capable in doing so.

There are some misgivings in our operation, however its not the rule.

The capability to distribute/sell is entirely different from the capability to provide aftersales technical support to the delight of customers. In other countries, incidences like this that reach the brand's head office is enough to warrant stripping the local dealer of any right to distribute the brand unless they can rectify their anti-customer attitudes.

In genral, High End brands have high performance reliability. Their MTBF are often very high. Their dealers know this. People who buy expensive stuff generally DO NOT abuse or misuse as they know the value of their products and bought them for their peformance and heir-loom potentials. So that the few incidences of defects, (lemons do occur even among the finest and most expensive stuff) the responsible dealer attend to it with the greatest dispatch not only to protect the name, but because they know these things happen only in a blue moon, so warranty cost would not be any objection. Outright replacement is the best a customer-oriented dealer can take to delgiht a customer. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

In the case of NAD, it is so obvious that the dealer acted as if the merchandise was a cheap Raon product presumably bought by a stupid customer who presummably misused the unit with the suspcion that the customer would put one over them in claiming the warranty. Thus, they question the customer and made the customer go through the effort of shelling out money just to get a replacement.

redkoji · « **Reply #349 on:** Mar 10, 2005 at 02:37 PM »

I do admire Mr. AV-Phile for his forwardness in expressing his opinion.

However, we believed that we have not assume that Mr. mYKi as a stupid person...nor we mistreated him during our conversation with him.

As for our capability and we do to our customers and the extra service we made for them...We guess its improper for us to say it here as a defensed for this incident.We only know that we treat fairly every customer that we have....sometimes even the customer which have not bought from us.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #350 on:** Mar 10, 2005 at 04:30 PM »

Redkoji,

You do not need to be defensive about your actions as they speak for themselves based on the narrative of myki. I have no intentions of siding with him. But it's just too bad that nothing you have said so far makes me doubt the veracity of myki's ordeal as narrated. I do not doubt your effort at being courteous and graceous with every customer, entertaining them whether or not they bought from you. And being polite turning down a warranty claim. It's your aftersales policies that I question. And the results are pretty obvious. The product failed to operate six months into the one-year warranty period. Outright replacement is demanded from the situation. Or at the very least, expeditious repair to restore the unit back to shape. At no cost to the customer. Your failed in both. You have an excellent product that is too expensive to merit the ridiculous ordeal and expense myKi went through. You yourself bragged that only 6% of your products get problems. That's an excellent statistics by any standard. And yet you could not even replace one defective product within that 6% to correct what should not have happened in the first place. Preferring to insinuate that the customer abused the product, invoking the warranty disclaimer on abuse and asking the customer to shell out 4.5T for a replacement. You call that extra service?

jcob · « **Reply #351 on:** Mar 10, 2005 at 05:18 PM »

All I can say is "Ang bagal umaksyon ng NAD Distributor dito". That alone is poor customer service. Has this been resolved already? What's the status of sir MYki's warranty claim? nabalik naba pera nya?

Baka naman umabot na ng 100 mark yung thread na ito bago ma resolve completely yung issue na ito, kakahiya naman kay sir Myki, proud na proud pa naman sya sa NAD CD PLAYER nya. Dapat nga bayaran nyo pa sya, inspite of all the bad experience, he still give praises on the NAD CD player.

levi · « **Reply #352 on:** Mar 10, 2005 at 09:42 PM »

All points taken. Pls stick to the topic. This is my 2nd Warning!

Philander · « **Reply #353 on:** Mar 11, 2005 at 07:53 AM »

Quote from: levi on Mar 10, 2005 at 09:42 PM

All points taken. Pls stick to the topic. This is my 2nd Warning!

Is is possible to split the topic? Retain all NAD CD player concerns then gather all NAD after sales support feedbacks and make another topic?

av_phile1 · « **Reply #354 on:** Mar 11, 2005 at 10:53 AM »

Perhaps this should have been done earlier. The "off "topics are taken up also in the general section. So there's duplicaton.

Personally, I think when you talk about a product and its features, aftersales support and dealer support is part of the product definition. In my previous employment, the evaluation of computer hardware always take into account the reputation of the dealer's aftersales and the experience of current users with that product and it's aftersales. One lousy aftersales incident or remark from a user can put that product down the shortlist, no matter how glorious the specs are. The analogy may be overkill; afterall, unix machines and mainframes really require so much more aftersales support than CD players.

But the logic behind the product definition can be extended - that any product of complex design requires aftersales support commensurate to the product's integrity. In short- one that will do justice to the name. So for me, a discussion of a product's aftersales support can be appropriate in the discussion of the product's features. But I have no objection creating another thread for this.

mYKi · « **Reply #355 on:** Mar 11, 2005 at 10:24 PM »

GREAT NEWS!

Studio Systems has sent me a PM that they have asked Sights and Sounds to return the P4,500 that they got from me. Studio Systems has coordinated with NAD International and they decided to replace my defective unit for free. Yes, I agree that it took a rather long time for the decision but as they say... better late than never!

Thank you PinoyDVD guys for backing my position that we consumers deserve good after-sales service. I'm sure we will all benefit from this exercise.

Thank you Ronald from Studio Systems for acting on my case. What I experienced was surely a big hassle but I hope that this incident will only improve your service so other NAD fans can be treated better in the future. My faith in your company and NAD has been restored. I accept your sincere apologies for the troubles.

Thank you Mr. John Tan, NAD Sales Manager, for responding to my e-mails and addressing my concerns.

Thank you NAD engineers for creating the C542. I loved the sweet sound of this baby the first time I heard it, bought it, and I still love the sound after my heartbreak and reunion with it. I guess it's also a bit fun breaking-in this player once again.

Sights and Sounds, I will never buy from you again.

levi · « **Reply #356 on:** Mar 11, 2005 at 10:53 PM »

Quote from: Philander on Mar 11, 2005 at 07:53 AM

Is is possible to split the topic? Retain all NAD CD player concerns then gather all NAD after sales support feedbacks and make another topic?

Yes, but I allowed some discussions regarding the aftermarket sales because its quite related. After hearing all sides I think that would be enough and if some members wont stop then that is the time they can create their own thread for further discussions.

levi · « **Reply #357 on:** Mar 11, 2005 at 11:00 PM »

Quote from: mYKi on Mar 11, 2005 at 10:24 PM

GREAT NEWS!

Studio Systems has sent me a PM that they have asked Sights and Sounds to return the P4,500 that they got from me. Studio Systems has coordinated with NAD International and they decided to replace my defective unit for free. Yes, I agree that it took a rather long time for the decision but as they say... better late than never!

Thank you PinoyDVD guys for backing my position that we consumers deserve good after-sales service. I'm sure we will all benefit from this exercise.

Thank you Ronald from Studio Systems for acting on my case. What I experienced was surely a big hassle but I hope that this incident will only improve your service so other NAD fans can be treated better in the future. My faith in your company and NAD has been restored. I accept your sincere apologies for the troubles.

Thank you Mr. John Tan, NAD Sales Manager, for responding to my e-mails and addressing my concerns.

Thank you NAD engineers for creating the C542. I loved the sweet sound of this baby the first time I heard it, bought it, and I still love the sound after my heartbreak and reunion with it. I guess it's also a bit fun breaking-in this player once again.

Sights and Sounds, I will never buy from you again.

Good to hear that Myki, More power to Studio System and NAD.
I hope this is the end and lets go back to NAD CD Players.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #358 on:** Mar 14, 2005 at 12:00 PM »

Quote from: mYKi on Mar 11, 2005 at 10:24 PM

GREAT NEWS!

Studio Systems has sent me a PM that they have asked Sights and Sounds to return the P4,500 that they got from me. Studio Systems has coordinated with NAD International and they decided to replace my defective unit for free. Yes, I agree that it took a rather long time for the decision but as they say... better late than never!

Glad to hear they relented. A simple phone call to NAD's home office would have sufficed and this episode would not have lasted so long. I hope this serves to teach them how to be customer-oriented in future warranty claims.

taggart · « **Reply #359 on:** Mar 14, 2005 at 03:14 PM »

Quote from: mYKi on Mar 11, 2005 at 10:24 PM

GREAT NEWS!

Studio Systems has sent me a PM that they have asked Sights and Sounds to return the P4,500 that they got from me. Studio Systems has coordinated with NAD International and they decided to replace my defective unit for free. Yes, I agree that it took a rather long time for the decision but as they say... better late than never!

Thank you PinoyDVD guys for backing my position that we consumers deserve good after-sales service. I'm sure we will all benefit from this exercise.

hey myki that's great news alright! glad to hear NAD international set things right. now all they got to work on is faster coordination between them and their distributors. after all is said and done, looks like i'll be shunning just one company after all.(Sights & Sounds)

going back to the cd player...any more opinions on this player vs other new players?