Author Topic: ONKYO AVR  (Read 536748 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline streetsmart

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,755
  • Life imitates movies ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #960 on: Aug 08, 2008 at 04:32 PM »
as i understand it, yung 6 position ng mic is for audyssey multi-eq, pag three positions lang ang calibration it's audyssey 2 eq.

Yes. There are different versions of Audyssey. Some can do 3 positions, others 6, others 8, others 32. I guess that the Onkyo 606 has the version with only 3 mic positions.
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline logan21

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 97
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #961 on: Aug 09, 2008 at 12:04 AM »
Yes. There are different versions of Audyssey. Some can do 3 positions, others 6, others 8, others 32. I guess that the Onkyo 606 has the version with only 3 mic positions.

so i guess 606's version of audyssey is not that good? hmm maybe i should just adjust my HT manually hehe  ;D
Certified Blu-ray Addict!!!

Offline iiinas

  • Kagawad
  • Trade Count: (+76)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,907
  • -> THXed <-
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #962 on: Aug 09, 2008 at 05:59 AM »
so i guess 606's version of audyssey is not that good? hmm maybe i should just adjust my HT manually hehe  ;D

the best ang manual adjustment. basta may gamit and knowhow.   :)

Offline logan21

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 97
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #963 on: Aug 09, 2008 at 03:03 PM »
the best ang manual adjustment. basta may gamit and knowhow.   :)

Hehe malamang ako trial and error hehe I'm not that experienced eh..  ::)
Certified Blu-ray Addict!!!

Offline iiinas

  • Kagawad
  • Trade Count: (+76)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,907
  • -> THXed <-
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #964 on: Aug 09, 2008 at 05:27 PM »
Hehe malamang ako trial and error hehe I'm not that experienced eh..  ::)

me too, thats why a lot of people praise the audyssey system, its the closest thing to getting a manually calibrated sound automatically. i have a 604. 2 eq din lang sa akin. the 1st time i set it up, the sound actually i did not like. but after asking around here, the thing to do after calibrating from audyssey is to set your speaker to small, then turn your sub's cross over to the max level and the receiver cross over setting to 80. and the sound now is very acceptable. try mo bago mag manual calibration.

Offline logan21

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 97
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #965 on: Aug 10, 2008 at 09:48 PM »
me too, thats why a lot of people praise the audyssey system, its the closest thing to getting a manually calibrated sound automatically. i have a 604. 2 eq din lang sa akin. the 1st time i set it up, the sound actually i did not like. but after asking around here, the thing to do after calibrating from audyssey is to set your speaker to small, then turn your sub's cross over to the max level and the receiver cross over setting to 80. and the sound now is very acceptable. try mo bago mag manual calibration.

Ok will try that! Thanks!  :D
Certified Blu-ray Addict!!!

Offline tambutsoo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 466
  • YO Wazzup :)
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #966 on: Aug 15, 2008 at 08:48 PM »

Onkyo 875

all i can say WOW grabe ang lakas talaga at ang ganda ng video upscale :)


perfect score

V = 10
A = 10


sweet :)
« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2008 at 08:54 PM by tambutsoo »

Offline danrd

  • Trade Count: (+25)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,194
  • Do it now while you still can!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #967 on: Aug 15, 2008 at 09:17 PM »
Congrats bro. I assure you - "You'll have more than what you've expected" ;)

Offline JAQY888

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,541
  • It's a bright new world ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #968 on: Aug 16, 2008 at 08:06 PM »

Onkyo 875

all i can say WOW grabe ang lakas talaga at ang ganda ng video upscale :)

perfect score

V = 10
A = 10

sweet :)

Congratz bro ... a few more tweaks and you will surely unleash the "hidden talents" of the 875 ...  ;D
50pv70;AX200E
NR-808;TX-8555;EX442;SuV85a
Dali-Ikon7;Paradigm-11;SVS-PB12+;B&W
RegaP3;OPPO;CDT15

Offline Topper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 218
  • Polk Audio
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #969 on: Aug 17, 2008 at 02:16 PM »

Onkyo 875

all i can say WOW grabe ang lakas talaga at ang ganda ng video upscale :)


perfect score

V = 10
A = 10


sweet :)

anyone have an idea how much the 875 goes for around here?

Offline ǝʞɐɾ ʎzzɐɾ

  • Trade Count: (+106)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,382
  • 13 x 3 = 1 O O !!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 50
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #970 on: Aug 17, 2008 at 02:23 PM »
Quote from: Topper
anyone have an idea how much the 875 goes for around here?

check this selling thread...
http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=81352.msg829638#msg829638
˙ ˙ ˙ ɯɐp - ıp - ɯɐp - ıp - ɯɐp

Offline Topper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 218
  • Polk Audio
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0

Offline ruth2art

  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 576
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #972 on: Aug 18, 2008 at 12:50 PM »
That's what I thought. You need a tripod, otherwise sira ang calibration. Kung wala ka, kuha ka lang sa CD-R King. Yung mura lang, ok na.

Set the mic at the level of your ears when you watch. Do at least 6 positions, in a circle of around 2 feet radius around the main listening position. But don't position the mic near the wall. It should be absolutely quiet when you do the calibration.
me too, thats why a lot of people praise the audyssey system, its the closest thing to getting a manually calibrated sound automatically. i have a 604. 2 eq din lang sa akin. the 1st time i set it up, the sound actually i did not like. but after asking around here, the thing to do after calibrating from audyssey is to set your speaker to small, then turn your sub's cross over to the max level and the receiver cross over setting to 80. and the sound now is very acceptable. try mo bago mag manual calibration.

I learned new things today. Will also try these out.
Thanks for sharing your expertise.. :D :D :D
"There is always, always, always something to be thankful for."

Offline MAtZTER

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,638
  • More POWER to your HT! literally ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #973 on: Aug 20, 2008 at 04:04 PM »

Onkyo 875

all i can say WOW grabe ang lakas talaga at ang ganda ng video upscale :)


perfect score

V = 10
A = 10


sweet :)

If you dont have a 1080p native display yet, save up for it, the 875's video capability will really shine even brighter.

Offline hi-fi heroes

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #974 on: Aug 20, 2008 at 05:59 PM »
any word on the successor of the 875 yet?

Offline leomar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 519
  • Newbie HD ready...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #975 on: Aug 21, 2008 at 03:44 PM »
wala po bang 12-volt trigger ang 875 para sa "main zone"? dun sa manual ng 875 na binabasa ko, may isang 12v trigger pero para lang ata siya sa "zone 2"? tama po ba?

Offline JAQY888

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,541
  • It's a bright new world ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #976 on: Aug 21, 2008 at 04:20 PM »
any word on the successor of the 875 yet?

new ONKYO AVRs will carry the -6 suffix. As for the "successor" of the 875, it's the new SR876.

For further info on the 876, and other new ONKYO AVRs,  CLICK HERE  ;D ;D ;D
50pv70;AX200E
NR-808;TX-8555;EX442;SuV85a
Dali-Ikon7;Paradigm-11;SVS-PB12+;B&W
RegaP3;OPPO;CDT15

Offline mercury724

  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 495
  • Ask 1 2 b 1
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #977 on: Aug 21, 2008 at 09:04 PM »
question lang po, is it normal that i crank up the volume to around 40 to 45 before i could hear sounds coming from the speaker? kasi pag nasa 35 or below walang sound lumalabas sa speakers unless i turn it up to 40  and up!  ???
Me U Cnt P@ss

Offline darkwing

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 574
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #978 on: Aug 22, 2008 at 01:15 AM »
yup ganun rin sa akin lols

Offline seymorebutts

  • Trade Count: (+38)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 289
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #979 on: Aug 27, 2008 at 12:27 AM »
hi, newbie here, anyone knows how much ( price range ) yung onkyo 805?

salamat

OT, do you always have to turn on your airconditioner when you use the AVR? like when listening just to music. TIA

Offline ǝʞɐɾ ʎzzɐɾ

  • Trade Count: (+106)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,382
  • 13 x 3 = 1 O O !!!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 50
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #980 on: Aug 27, 2008 at 06:23 AM »
˙ ˙ ˙ ɯɐp - ıp - ɯɐp - ıp - ɯɐp

Offline MAtZTER

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,638
  • More POWER to your HT! literally ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #981 on: Aug 27, 2008 at 12:23 PM »
new ONKYO AVRs will carry the -6 suffix. As for the "successor" of the 875, it's the new SR876.

For further info on the 876, and other new ONKYO AVRs,  CLICK HERE  ;D ;D ;D

Whats new with the 876?

Audessey dynamic EQ, additional HDMI out and ISF video calibration?
>:D

Offline iiinas

  • Kagawad
  • Trade Count: (+76)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,907
  • -> THXed <-
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #982 on: Aug 27, 2008 at 12:38 PM »
Whats new with the 876?

Audessey dynamic EQ, additional HDMI out and ISF video calibration?
>:D

sir matz, the new thx ultra 2 plus certification too.  :o :o :o
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2008 at 12:39 PM by iiinaslao »

Offline MAtZTER

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,638
  • More POWER to your HT! literally ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #983 on: Aug 27, 2008 at 01:07 PM »
sir matz, the new thx ultra 2 plus certification too.  :o :o :o

I see! With THX loudness plus as one of its new features. Cool.

http://www.thx.com/technologies/loudness_plus.html

What does the new Audessey dynamic EQ do?

Offline MAtZTER

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,638
  • More POWER to your HT! literally ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #984 on: Aug 27, 2008 at 02:30 PM »
Ok found it, along with whats ISF thingie:

With its continued excellence in sound reproduction, Onkyo has once again created a powerful, very versatile home theater receiver for the home theater enthusiast. With high-end features, exceptional surround-sound reproduction, and 1080p HD upconversion, the TX-SR876 THX Ultra2 7 x 140W 7.1-Channel Home Theater Receiver will take your home theater experience to new heights. It features 4-HDMI inputs and 2-HDMI (Ver. 1.3a) outputs enabling an effortless, high-bandwidth transfer of video and audio signals to the latest HDTV 1080p displays. In addition, Onkyo includes its exclusive Burr-Brown 192KHz/24-bit audio processing technology to create a wider, more enveloping surround-sound experience. It features built-in Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Pro-Logic IIx, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-ES, DTS Neo:6, DTS 96/24, DTS-HD (Master Audio/High-Resolution Audio), THX Ultra2 Plus Certification with THX Loudness Plus technology.

Moreover, this powerful receiver presents superb functionality that will be hard to match. Onkyo exclusives like High Current Power Supply (H.C.P.S.), three TI Aureus DSP chips, Dual Push-Pull Amplification, Wide Range Amplifier Technology (WRAT), Audyssey MultEQ XT Room Correction, VLSC Circuitry, and Optimum Gain Volume Circuitry offer the cleanest signal on the market. With multi-room outputs, XM/Sirius and HD radio capabilities, and connectivity to virtually any A/V source or playback component you can imagine, your entertainment choices are endless with the TX-SR876.

Key Features

• HDMI Switching x4 with 1080p HQV Reon-VX Upscaling
If you're looking to pump high-definition DVD playback into your HD displays or projectors, this receiver will do the job. It has a high-bandwidth processor capable of upconverting 720p/1080i and 1080p through the HDMI (Ver. 1.3a) output. The 1080p HD upconversion is achieved with a powerful HQV Reon-VX processing chip. HDMI supports standard, enhanced, or high-definition video, plus multi-channel digital audio on a single cable.

• High Current Power Supply (H.C.P.S.)
It features a Massive High Power Transformer for audio and video processing, which shields out unwanted magnetic fields. Built with over-sized capacitors capable of delivering breathtaking headroom, with an outstanding audio signal-to-noise.

• Three-Stage Inverted Darlington Circuitry
Three-stage inverted Darlington circuitry helps reduce distortion at the output stage. In conjunction with Push-Pull Amplification, this receiver realizes a highly efficient drive capability.

• 7.1-Channel and Digital Audio Decoding
This powerful receiver uses specific Dolby Digital and DTS codecs to reproduce an enveloping 7.1-Channel surround sound experience. The unit encodes Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Pro Logic II, Dolby Pro Logic IIx, DTS, DTS 96/24, DTS-ES Discrete/Matrix, DTS Neo:6, DTS-HD Master Audio/High-Resolution Audio, XM HD Surround, THX Ultra2 Plus Certification with THX Loudness Plus technology.

• THX Ultra2 Certified
THX Ultra2 specifications are designed to address the growing needs of the newest generation of home entertainment enthusiasts with smaller home theater environments. THX Ultra2 receivers also feature proprietary THX technologies, which accurately translate movie soundtracks for home theater playback. THX Loudness Plus, improves how you experience movies at lower volume levels. To counteract the loss or distortion of ambient and bass sounds at lower volumes.

• Audyssey MultEQ XT
For enhanced room acoustics, Onkyo's Audyssey MultEQ XT technology is included with this powerful receiver. Gathering measurements from up to eight positions, this technology detects speakers, and then sets levels, delays and crossovers, as well as measuring room acoustics. It is designed to work with home theater systems to create a larger, fuller listening area without distorting the sound.

• Audyssey Dynamic EQ
When the output volume is adjusted, this feature selects the best possible frequency response and surround sound levels with minimal audio distortion.

• Image Science Foundation (ISF)
This unique, video hub-type receiver employs ISF video calibration that offers the ability to reproduce exquisitely sharp video with superb color balance. It ensures that every input source is independently calibrated for your connected, compatible HD display. Moreover, it has been shown to improve energy savings in displays and projectors by up to 50%.

• Wide Range Amplifier Technology (WRAT)
It's the Wide Range Amplifier Technology (WRAT) that will fill your room with noise-free, impressively powerful, true-to-life sound. With a broader frequency range and lower harmonic noise entering the signal path, it's perfectly suited for new high resolution DVD-Audio and SACD formats.

• Vector Linear Shaping Circuitry (VLSC)
This receiver features Onkyo's exclusive Vector Linear Shaping Circuitry to mitigate signal noise. This exquisite digital-to-analog conversion circuitry includes five Burr-Brown 192KHz/24-bit audio DAC's, capable of reproducing an outstanding dynamic range of 123dB.

• Optimum Gain Control Circuitry
This receiver has the ability to adjust the gain allowing for less noise contamination especially at lower volumes.

• HD Component Video
With playback specifications that meet the standards of professionals, it features a component video output with 1080i high-definition upconversion.

• RIHD System Control
RIHD enables seamless system integration with other leading brand-name devices, including those with Panasonic VIERA Link2 and Toshiba CE-Link capability, and selected Sharp displays. With one remote control, you can control several functions, including Standby, Volume Command, and Direct Change.

• XM and Sirius Satellite Radio Ready
Simply plug an XM Passport System into the receiver's XM-Ready receiver, and activate the XM (optional) service to start receiving uninterrupted radio programming of your choice. Now, in conjunction with Neural Surround, XM Satellite Radio offers XM HD Surround, which provides 5.1-channel surround sound on selected programming.

• Remote Interactive (RI) Interface
Remote Interactive (RI) capability enables you to simply connect your iPod to your receiver through Onkyo's RI Dock option for the iPod (DS-A2). Your iPod effectively becomes another Onkyo component flowing through the receiver.

• Multi-Room Capabilities
With Powered Zone 2 and Zone 3 line outputs, this unit is capable of reproducing surround sound entertainment in your main room while you play back a completely different stereo source in 2 other zones.

• Color-Coding System
Onkyo takes the guesswork out of the installation process with an easy-to-use surround-sound channel color-coding system.

Offline danrd

  • Trade Count: (+25)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,194
  • Do it now while you still can!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #985 on: Aug 27, 2008 at 02:36 PM »
>:D >:D >:D >:D >:D


Mods paki block nga tong thread na to. . . . . . . . . . . on my handle only.  ;D ;D ;D

Offline iiinas

  • Kagawad
  • Trade Count: (+76)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,907
  • -> THXed <-
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #986 on: Aug 27, 2008 at 02:38 PM »
mukhang madaming mga gurus dito magbebenta ng kanilang 875 for this....  ;D ;D ;D


Offline streetsmart

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,755
  • Life imitates movies ...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #987 on: Aug 27, 2008 at 02:39 PM »
I am really curious about the "ISF video calibration." The description really doesn't say much. It could mean anything.

Is it an independent "Color Management System" for each input?
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline ricky

  • Trade Count: (+68)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,128
  • Duh?
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 544
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #988 on: Aug 27, 2008 at 02:51 PM »
WOW :o Kaya pala branded sya as KING OF AVRs ng Home cinema choice ;) ;) ;)

Offline iiinas

  • Kagawad
  • Trade Count: (+76)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,907
  • -> THXed <-
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: ONKYO AVR
« Reply #989 on: Aug 27, 2008 at 03:15 PM »
I am really curious about the "ISF video calibration." The description really doesn't say much. It could mean anything.

Is it an independent "Color Management System" for each input?

this feature is of course part of their top of the line integras. found this article on the net.  :D

Video Calibration Comes To Integra AVRs, Pre-Pro
By Joseph Palenchar -- TWICE, 8/21/2008 7:26:00 AM

Upper Saddle River, N.J. — Integra is taking video-display calibration technology out of the high-definition display and putting it into two A/V receivers (AVRs) and a preamp processor.

The $1,900-suggested DTR-8.9 and $2,600 DTR-9.9 AVRs are the industry’s first with embedded Imaging Science Foundation Certified Calibration Controls (ISFccc) protocols. The products will also be the first, or among the first, AVRs with built-in video-calibration technology, depending on other introductions at the CEDIA Expo.

Integra’s $2,000 DHC-9.9 preamp-processor, also incorporating ISF calibration, is among a handful of pre-pros with video-calibration technology. Anthem has such pre-pros, but they don’t use ISF technology.

All three Integra models ship in September and will be displayed at the Expo.

The introductions make it possible, Integra said, to individually optimize video signals for each video source connected to an AVR or preamp-processor without resorting to complex cable routing and customized remote-control macros. Such “workarounds” make system operation more complex for consumers, Integra contended.

Using the Integra components, installers can use a video-switching AVR or preamp-processor to select video sources, optimize video settings for each video source, and direct the video signal over a single HDMI output to a TV or projector. In contrast, in home theaters that combine other AVRs and video-calibrating TVs, installers can’t individually calibrate video settings for each video source unless they run a video cable or cables from each source to the TV, then separately run audio cables from each video source to the AVR or pre-pro, Integra explained. Without the additional cables, the TV would apply the same calibration setting to all of the multiple sources being switched in the A/V receiver or pre-processor.

In the new Integra components, all coarse-grain and fine-grain calibration adjustments correspond to the ISFccc protocols, and access to the adjustments will be restricted to ISF-trained calibration technicians who perform calibration services to consumers for a fee. Most of Integra’s installer accounts have ISF-certified technicians on staff, said sales director Keith Haas.

Integra “made everything simple by putting the calibration controls in the receiver and providing separate calibration memory for each input,” said Joel Silver, president and founder of ISF, which provides video calibration training and services. “Now, ISF-trained technicians can achieve a perfect match for all the sources and also provide the end user will simple, intuitive control over sources and switching."

For consumers and installers, Integra added, “the simplest and most reliable way to connect different video sources – DVD player, HD player, satellite TV, cable TV, etc. – is by using an A/V receiver or preamplifier to select the desired source and direct the video signal over a single output to the TV or projector. “

Multiple display makers incorporate ISF calibration tools in at least some of their models, Integra said. Those companies include Pioneer Elite, LG, Runco, Vidikron and Epson. Other brands and models also offer detailed levels of color adjustment but do not feature ISF calibration, a spokesman added. Sometimes these controls are easy to access by the end user, but in other cases, the person calibrating the set must know a secret set of commands to get into the hidden menus, he said.

With the three new products, Integra is expanding its selection of components equipped with HD Radio to four from three. All three new models feature HD Radio, joining a carryover $550 TUN-3.7 component tuner with optional HD Radio/satellite-radio tuning card. Two other HD Radio-equipped components, the $2,400 DTR-8.8 AVR and $1,600 DTC-9.8 pre-pro, will be dropped when the three new models ship.