Author Topic: harman/kardon avr  (Read 364845 times)

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Offline ArchitecturalAudio

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #180 on: Apr 06, 2003 at 11:33 AM »
Symon,

Enjoy your new toy.  Please feel free to call us should you have any questions.

Cheers,

Architectural Audio

Offline H a n $

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #181 on: Apr 06, 2003 at 12:47 PM »
Archi audio,

Sir can you text me price of HK5500 and 4500 thanks?? sir 0916-7300331
« Last Edit: Apr 06, 2003 at 12:56 PM by Hans Adriane »

Offline symon

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #182 on: Apr 08, 2003 at 09:58 AM »
Symon,

Enjoy your new toy.  Please feel free to call us should you have any questions.

Cheers,

Architectural Audio



Thanks, I'm really satisfied with the set-up. My only question is, how would I know if the "break-in" period is over na?

Offline ArchitecturalAudio

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #183 on: Apr 08, 2003 at 10:32 AM »
Hi Symon,

You'll only know when the sound ceases to improve.  It will probably take 50 hours before it starts to settle down slowly.  Usually, when its new, the sound is slow, less detailed yet a bit harsh.  With use, the sound becomes faster, more upbeat, exhibits wider and deeper soundstage and becomes smoother.

Have Fun,

Architectural Audio

Offline symon

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #184 on: Apr 08, 2003 at 03:12 PM »
Hi Symon,

You'll only know when the sound ceases to improve.  It will probably take 50 hours before it starts to settle down slowly.  Usually, when its new, the sound is slow, less detailed yet a bit harsh.  With use, the sound becomes faster, more upbeat, exhibits wider and deeper soundstage and becomes smoother.

Have Fun,

Architectural Audio

Yup! that's what I noticed. Kala ko nga hindi compatible speaker and receiver, or pangit yun audio cables ko. Pero after a while, the sound improved, naging mas 'swabe.' I even told my friends about it and they said it was just my imagination! hehehe!

Offline Qman

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #185 on: Apr 08, 2003 at 03:14 PM »
boss symon,

anong match mong speakrs sa hk mo :D

Offline symon

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #186 on: Apr 08, 2003 at 03:34 PM »
custom made speakers from nirv/anthony

Offline Qman

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #187 on: Apr 08, 2003 at 03:44 PM »
he he he ;D

pareho pala tayo boss symon, kaso wala pa akong surround at sub sa pag-uwi ko pa lang makukuha kay nirv at anthony of A-Audio. di ko kasi alam kung saan ko ilalagay eh kya binitin ko muna ang bili kaya tuloy nabitin ako sa tunog.  

galeeng talaga ng harman.......  kulang pa nga sa break in sa pakinig ko pro ang layo na ng tunog niya sa mini component set up ko. ;D


Offline symon

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #188 on: Apr 08, 2003 at 05:15 PM »
Yup, kinwento ka nga sakin ni epoy eh! :) Ako, kulang nlang ako ng center speaker at sub.

Offline enygma

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #189 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 07:08 AM »
meron na palang hk5550. i saw it in hk website. 7.1 na siya at ang usa model niya is iyung avr 525. you can adjust the crossover settings (bass management) of all your speakers. mas maseset mo ng maganda iyung bass ng system mo. the only problem is ang laki ng power consumption niya. max. of 1040 W.  :o plantsa na iyon ha. and it weighs 20 kg. bigat niya at siguradong mabigat din ito sa bulsa. ito bale ang match ng nad t762. matagal pa siguro ito bago lumabas sa pinas. patok na naman sigurado ito sa mga gustong mag-upgrade. iyung nga lang siguradong lalaki ang bayad natin sa kuryente kapag nagkataon. don nga lang sa hk5500 ko ang laki ng improvement, not only with sounds but also with my electric bill. lumaking bigla rin. almost 1/3 ang tinaas. ok lang at least satisfy naman ako sa new toy ko. hahahaha  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: Apr 09, 2003 at 07:09 AM by enygma »

Offline john5479

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #190 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 07:52 AM »
you can always buy a HK PA2000 amp to make it 7.1.features with the hk 5550 are almost the same with the hk 5500 with exception of the no. of channels :)

Offline ariel

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #191 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 09:10 AM »
at least HK is not over-rating their receivers/amplifiers.
some brands are claiming to have 5X100watts/ch pero and consumption nya is less than 500watts. i don't know how the output got bigger than the input power.

Offline enygma

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #192 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 09:44 AM »
i noticed that if you're going to add an additional amplifier (hk pa2000) to your hk5500 to make it 7.1, mas ok pa ito since the total power consumption would be less than 1000W which is in hk5550 its max. consumption is above 1KW. hk pa2000 power consumption is less than 300W. di pa gaanong mabigat ang load ng receiver mo if you'll just add another amplifier. para yatang may cooling fan na rin iyung hk5550.  :D

Offline Courage

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #193 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 12:51 PM »
Pag nag uupgrade ka nang bagong Amp..nag uupgrade din ang bill sa kuryente ehehehehe
Walang Setup

Offline john5479

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #194 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 01:52 PM »
Exactly, less strain on the receiver, with the 5550 tingin ko dapat me dedicated outlet siya, mahirap maagawan ng kuryente considering its single transformer is powering 7 channels plus the processing..too much strain in my opinion.

Offline jofkevski

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #195 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 02:22 PM »
Exactly mga bro - plantsa na ang ang 5550. In fact, mas malaki pa consumption nyan sa aircon, and aircon needs separate breaker and outlet for that purpose. Pero, ito e kung halos i-full blast mo na si harman sa near full rating nya.

As I said nga, Harman is class A amp, only about 25% efficient than the likes of NAD and Jap amps (about 85-95%). Meaning, sa 1000watts mo (max consumption) 250Watts lang ang music. yung 750 watts mo, tinapon lang ni Harman sa heat dissipated. This is the characteristics ng class A amp.

Kaya yung 1000watts ni harman (using 25%efficient amp), pareho lang yan sa 250watts ng efficient amp.

So that's Harman-Kardon amp design. Buti na lang, may fan (for forced cooling) na si 5550 para mabawasan ang wear and tear ng transistor sa sobrang init.

Offline Qman

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #196 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 02:37 PM »
Exactly mga bro - plantsa na ang ang 5550. In fact, mas malaki pa consumption nyan sa aircon, and aircon needs separate breaker and outlet for that purpose. Pero, ito e kung halos i-full blast mo na si harman sa near full rating nya.

As I said nga, Harman is class A amp, only about 25% efficient than the likes of NAD and Jap amps (about 85-95%). Meaning, sa 1000watts mo (max consumption) 250Watts lang ang music. yung 750 watts mo, tinapon lang ni Harman sa heat dissipated. This is the characteristics ng class A amp.

Kaya yung 1000watts ni harman (using 25%efficient amp), pareho lang yan sa 250watts ng efficient amp.

So that's Harman-Kardon amp design. Buti na lang, may fan (for forced cooling) na si 5550 para mabawasan ang wear and tear ng transistor sa sobrang init.

I see ganoon pala iyon.. tenx for the infor sir jofkevski :D

Offline H a n $

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #197 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 02:55 PM »
Sir,

kung totoo pala yan di mas malaki pa electric bill ko ngayon hehehe pag Harman pero kung satisfied ka sa sound Okie Okie pa rin  ;D ;D

Offline enygma

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #198 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 03:04 PM »
Exactly mga bro - plantsa na ang ang 5550. In fact, mas malaki pa consumption nyan sa aircon, and aircon needs separate breaker and outlet for that purpose. Pero, ito e kung halos i-full blast mo na si harman sa near full rating nya.

As I said nga, Harman is class A amp, only about 25% efficient than the likes of NAD and Jap amps (about 85-95%). Meaning, sa 1000watts mo (max consumption) 250Watts lang ang music. yung 750 watts mo, tinapon lang ni Harman sa heat dissipated. This is the characteristics ng class A amp.

Kaya yung 1000watts ni harman (using 25%efficient amp), pareho lang yan sa 250watts ng efficient amp.

So that's Harman-Kardon amp design. Buti na lang, may fan (for forced cooling) na si 5550 para mabawasan ang wear and tear ng transistor sa sobrang init.

maybe this is one of the reasons kung bakit di kagad naglabas ang harman ng 7.1 in one receiver. di na feasible especially sa consumer kung lalakihan mo pa ng load iyung receiver mo. kaya they decided to make a 5.1 receiver upgradeable to 7.1. less strain from the receiver and if you decide to go 7.1. choice na bale ng consumer iyon kung gusto nilang lumaki electric bill nila. hehehe but then again since naglabas na halos lahat ng manufacturer ng 7.1 receiver, harman decided to make a 7.1 receiver. i think na di na malaki ang difference kung sakaling maglabas ng bagong model ang harman especially sa maximum power output na kaya niyang ibigay. it would be more sa features rather than RMS power it can give.

Offline Qman

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #199 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 03:11 PM »
kung me class A amps ano ano naman ang mga Class B amps.  Malaki ba diperensya? ???

Offline Philander

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #200 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 03:30 PM »
Qatarman,

Sent you a PM.

Offline Qman

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #201 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 04:11 PM »
tenx philander,

very informative ... ;D

Offline jofkevski

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #202 on: Apr 09, 2003 at 05:53 PM »
kung me class A amps ano ano naman ang mga Class B amps.  Malaki ba diperensya? ???

You can check my post on page 7 of this thread for some more distinction between class A and class B amps. FYI

Offline john5479

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #203 on: Apr 10, 2003 at 02:22 AM »
umm..I don't think h/k receivers run on class A amps, they might be more of class AB. NAD i think uses class B or AB, if NAD amps were 85% to 95% efficient then it wouldn't generate much heat and there wouldn't be a need for a big power supply or even a fan, small heat sinks would do. most (not all) japanese amps use IC's thus they are lighter since the power supply is not that big, smaller heat sinks, lighter weight (relatively speaking). Maybe some reviewers refer hk's amps close to class A operation.

Pure Class A solid state amps that would run on 70 watts would be quite big, heavy and generate a lot of heat. a good example is pass labs aleph series, they have a 60 watt per channel stereo amp running on class A that consumes 300 watts (this is just an amp, no preamp sections etc.) :o the preamp is separate, in receivers most of the time the power supply is shared so when it is idle or running its not just the amp being powered but the other elements in the receiver as well. If you would like to run for example 5 at 70 watts channels on class A operation then it would consume much more watts and the power supply would be a lot bigger :o and thats just for the amp section. Btw rotels rsx 1055 amp (5x75w) consumes 860 watts.

I am not an expert at this nor am I dissing harman kardon's sound, I like it  ;D If there was a stock of the Hk 5500 when I bought my receiver baka yun ang nabili ko but  the amps on harman kardon receivers are not using pure Class A, they generate more heat than usual due to their avoidance in using fans for cooling. As long as an amp is not 100% efficient then it will generate heat. I wouldn't complain on this anyway because like I've said I like the way HK sounds, I also like how my receiver sounds and it doesn't matter whatever topology its amplifier design uses..its the end result that matters. just my .0001 cents :)

« Last Edit: Apr 10, 2003 at 02:52 AM by john5479 »

Offline jofkevski

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #204 on: Apr 10, 2003 at 12:33 PM »
Thanks john. I am beginning to appreciate this discussion. I hope this would lead us to understand how HK really works. I am trying to recall the site which discusses harman amp design.

Anyway, all amps generate heat. The difference is that class A amp, upon turning on, will start eating up power and release this power as heat. Upon increasing sound level on music will the heat get more pronounced.

You can verify this also by looking at the specs of harman kardon (end page of your manual). Take for example the 3550 in stereo mode (2 channels), at idle (as in no music being played but just in an "on" position), this amp consumes 72watts already. Based on actual test, 3550 can pump up to 100watts in stereo (max). This is equivalent to 580watts max power consumed. At least, HK is honest on these figures as well. So this is partly why they also need high current power supply.

ClassB amp is different in that, in idle mode, hardly will the heat be noticeable or pronounced. When you start pumping music and increase the sound level, the heat will begin to build up - but again, not as intense as in class A amp.

It so happen that I have a Yamaha amp which I can switch between class B and class A (or so called class A turbo by Yamaha). At idle, class A setting emit so much heat in my amp - which explains an exhaust fan on top (and which also explains fan on hk5550 to aide their big heat sinks and big casing) - but i dont mind it because it produces a smooth sound regardless of levels. At its normal amp setting, the scenario while idle is different, the heat is none or not that much.

Will post the site later as soon as I locate the URL.

Offline john5479

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #205 on: Apr 10, 2003 at 01:43 PM »
my receiver also heats up even when idle, my previous marantz also heats up when idle..only when you start watching or listening to music does the heat really pick up..which is due to both having high current designs.  what i'm just pointing out is that the amps in the h/k receiver are not pure class A, it may be class A to a certain degree but switches to B to generate more power, amps that are class A/B give more power to speakers running in class B rather than pure class A. I'm sure when your yamaha amp (which is a class A/B amp) is using class A it produces lesser but much cleaner, clearer power. There is this amp from pioneer which was from the late 70's that can operate on class A and AB. On class A it can give 20 watts per channel, but on B it can go up to 70, siyempre mas maganda yung sound pag class A even if its "lesser" :)

Hk has an integrated amp (HK 670) that gives 70w x 2 and is quite compact. It also generates a lot of heat similar to its receivers but its not running on pure class A its either A/B or B, an amplifier running on pure class A giving 70 watts per channel will be twice or maybe thrice the size.

As for the hk 5550 it should come with a fan because the heat generated from 7 amps running at the same time may not be compensated by heatsinks alone (it might be possible but the heatsinks would be quite big, the casing will not be compact anymore), another thing baka masira kaagad yung other components sa receiver like the processor, DACs etc.

I am not sure if my NAD receiver runs on class A/B or B but it also generates a lot of heat, you should feel it after watching the Matrix  :) that's where the fan kicks in to sort of cool it down because the other components might break down due to the heat, na complaint ng iba kasi in some medyo maingay yung fan. NAD is also conservative in its figures like harman and what its states for specs are just the minimum power, it also runs on 100 watts per channel continuous in stereo mode with dynamic power to spare. Please, NAD should not be put in the same league as some japanese companies entry level receivers.

I also had a hk receiver previously so I know how it generates heat and how it sounds, yun nga ang napapansin sa bahay e, the receivers that I buy can double as heaters...buti di ko pa inuumpisahan audio setup ko hehehe.

Basically they are similar in thinking on the way amps should work, give more current to speakers, hence the mammoth power consumption and high current design. because its the sound that matters  ;DLike I said I don't think the amps in the receivers run in pure Class A but that does not mean that it sounds bad which is what I keep reiterating. Cheers! ;D
« Last Edit: Apr 10, 2003 at 01:55 PM by john5479 »

Offline Qman

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #206 on: Apr 11, 2003 at 02:27 AM »
anyone owned HK AVR3000?  any comments.

Offline john5479

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #207 on: Apr 11, 2003 at 06:27 AM »
qatarman: the avr2000 and avr3000 are quite close in power rating, the only difference is that the avr3000 has 5.1 inputs and outputs I think :) sound quality..its a harman c'mon hehehe

Offline Qman

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #208 on: Apr 11, 2003 at 11:02 AM »
yap john,

na auditioned ko na itong avr3000 eh gulat ako dahil 5.1 na rin sya not to sure about the rating though....

oo nga pala harman yon ....... galeng tunog :D

Offline enygma

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Re:harman/kardon avr
« Reply #209 on: Apr 11, 2003 at 02:41 PM »
i've asked archie audio abt the price of hk5550 and whoa!!! 24k more than the price of the 5500. it's better to add an additional amplifier dahil mas mura pa siya and less strain from the receiver and electric bill.  ;D hehehe to those interested in 5550 baka sa september pa raw ang dating nito.  :D
« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2003 at 02:42 PM by enygma »