Author Topic: My dream theater  (Read 400120 times)

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Offline frootloops

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #360 on: Jul 22, 2008 at 03:37 PM »
This only shows how powerful your system is sir steetsmart.  ;)  Imagine even the exhaust fan inside the CR is rattling... :o  watch out for leaking faucets next time.  :D

A fellow member was at my house for a dinner get together last Sunday, and based from his first hand experience with your audio system (of course aside from the Sony Pj)...and the very good room dimension (kasya daw poste ng Meralco sa taas ng ceiling mo) , it was one of the best AQ he had ever heard. Forget about the old model of speakers you have....it is the result that counts.  ;)

Haayy...kelan kaya ako makakarating dyan.... ;D

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #361 on: Jul 22, 2008 at 03:57 PM »
Haayy...kelan kaya ako makakarating dyan.... ;D

Christmas party EB.  ;D Nagpaplano kami ni pchin.  ;D

As long as you come in proper costume. Darth Vader? Terminator? Shrek?  ;D ;D
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline frootloops

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #362 on: Jul 22, 2008 at 04:04 PM »
R2D2 sana. Nyahaha!  ;D  Sige sir, I hope it pushes through.  Sagot ko ano.............Bluray compilation ng HOT pics since the start.  :o   ;D

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #363 on: Jul 22, 2008 at 04:07 PM »
R2D2 sana. Nyahaha!  ;D  Sige sir, I hope it pushes through.  Sagot ko ano.............Bluray compilation ng HOT pics since the start.  :o   ;D

Nakupo! Pwedeng Kris Kringle o kaya grand raffle prize yun!  ;D
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline Mr.H

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #364 on: Jul 22, 2008 at 10:39 PM »
Wow!!  2 Paradigm Servo-15!!! :o  :o
matindi lalo ang HT room nyan!!! ;D
Congrats sir Mark!!!  ;)

(wala po bang pic's?)  :D
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Offline iiinas

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #365 on: Jul 23, 2008 at 03:32 PM »
Christmas party EB.  ;D Nagpaplano kami ni pchin.  ;D

As long as you come in proper costume. Darth Vader? Terminator? Shrek?  ;D ;D

matindi yan sir mark, costume eb!  ;D

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #366 on: Jul 23, 2008 at 03:51 PM »
Wow!!  2 Paradigm Servo-15!!! :o  :o
matindi lalo ang HT room nyan!!! ;D
Congrats sir Mark!!!  ;)

(wala po bang pic's?)  :D

Sige, post ako pics. Baka weekend na para kasama ang 3 bagong bass trap.

Post din ako ng chart which shows bass frequency response with only one sub vs two subs. Malaki difference. Much flatter with 2 subs, and that's the main reason why you get 2 subs.
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #367 on: Jul 23, 2008 at 03:56 PM »
matindi yan sir mark, costume eb!  ;D

May thread na dito on Xmas party. Iniisip namin ni Paul that it will be better to have a party in an HT, rather than a restaurant. Kasya naman 20 sa HT ko. We can have HT-related contests.

Pero iniisip pa rin namin. Ang gulo kasi nun.  ;D ;D
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline iiinas

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #368 on: Jul 23, 2008 at 04:03 PM »
May thread na dito on Xmas party. Iniisip namin ni Paul that it will be better to have a party in an HT, rather than a restaurant. Kasya naman 20 sa HT ko. We can have HT-related contests.

Pero iniisip pa rin namin. Ang gulo kasi nun.  ;D ;D

oo nga, kawawa naman yung ht nyo. pero mababait naman kami, we wont mess up your gears! hehehe  ;D ;D ;D

Offline blackd70s

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #369 on: Jul 23, 2008 at 06:19 PM »
bro street!

baka may input ka about proper/suggested placement for 2 subs .  i have 2 digm as well though not like you awesome servo. at the moment my ps1200 is at the right side while the ultracube is on the left. both are set at 80hz, phase is at zero.

your suggestion(s) will be appreciated.


thanks! :D
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #370 on: Jul 23, 2008 at 07:54 PM »
You should set LPF to 120 hz. Not 80 hz. Then paandarin mo 1 sub & do test tone. Kunin mo SPL level with Radioshack meter or equivalent. Tapos do the other sub & set it at same level, using gain control of sub. After that, u will need instruments or your ear to optimize location. Ingat! Congrats sa baby!
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Offline kefq

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #371 on: Jul 24, 2008 at 07:31 AM »
Mark ganda naman nyan bass traps mo. Parang kailan lang naka rolyo pa yang speaker cloths na black, ngayon in action na. Pwede ba pa demo  :)

Offline blackd70s

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #372 on: Jul 24, 2008 at 11:15 AM »
You should set LPF to 120 hz. Not 80 hz. Then paandarin mo 1 sub & do test tone. Kunin mo SPL level with Radioshack meter or equivalent. Tapos do the other sub & set it at same level, using gain control of sub. After that, u will need instruments or your ear to optimize location. Ingat! Congrats sa baby!

will try this bro! hahanap lang ako ng sound meter! thanks! but moving forward bro if you wont mind im building my new house at up village. pag nasa finishing na pupuntahan kita para sa suggestions mo ha. tia! woooohoooo!
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #373 on: Jul 24, 2008 at 11:36 AM »
will try this bro! hahanap lang ako ng sound meter! thanks! but moving forward bro if you wont mind im building my new house at up village. pag nasa finishing na pupuntahan kita para sa suggestions mo ha. tia! woooohoooo!

Sure. U can come over any time, basta weekend siguro. You can also post questions in the "Building a Dedicated HT" thread.

By the way, I forgot to mention that after you set the gain controls of the subs para equal sila, then you have to run the 2 subs together and make them equal in SPL to the other speakers, using naman the level control in your AVR.
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #374 on: Jul 28, 2008 at 07:34 AM »
I've recently done a few things which have improved the bass response in my HT. The proximate cause of the first improvement was the 3rd death of my Velodyne HGS-15 sub. I decided to let it rest for a while and I got a 2nd Paradigm Servo-15 v2 sub. I like this sub cuz its big (I need a big sub for my big HT), it goes low (for some reason, the Velo couldn't go that low) and it has a built-in servo mechanism that prevents it from being overdriven.

Here are the 2 Digms flanking the Stratus Silver center speaker. The subs are actually quite non-descript. Big black boxes.



Second project was to build and install more bass traps. I was so impressed with the first 4 traps that I thought that 7 should be better than 4.  ;D So I did 3 more 8-foot traps and installed them at the junction between ceiling and wall. The result, as expected, is an incremental improvement which is smaller than the original improvement. While the bass was previously quite tight, it is now even tighter. I refer to the bass of the big drums - kick drum, kettle drum - and the lower octaves of the bass guitar. Obviously, any improvement in music shows up in movies as well, which are generally easier to reproduce.



I thought it would be interesting to show the following frequency response charts (sorry for the bad pictures but you should still get the idea). This first one shows the response with only one subwoofer (crossover at 80 hz), no audyssey correction and no Velo SMS-1 correction. You will notice that there is a big peak at 40 hz and somehow, the whole region from 20 to 32 hz is depressed.



This second chart shows the response with 2 subwoofers, a cut by the SMS-1 at 40 hz (there are actually 2 cuts, including a notch filter at 40 hz) and audyssey room correction. The difference between the 2 charts is like night and day. You may also notice that the curve is not absolutely flat, but this is because Audyssey considers the acoustic character of not just the main listening position but the immediate surrounding area as well (cuz you do 8 mic positions). Another thing you notice is that there seems to be a sub-sonic filter at 20 hz. In practice though, I am pretty sure that the response goes below 20 hz - this is the subsonic bass which you can't hear but which you can feel.

When you listen, the result is pretty impressive. A very tight and accurate bass. An even respose across the bass frequencies.

Next bass project will be tougher. Repair the Velo HGS-15 and integrate it with the 2 Digms. This is actually not easy. I hope I can get it to work.

No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline iiinas

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #375 on: Jul 28, 2008 at 07:39 AM »
I've recently done a few things which have improved the bass response in my HT. The proximate cause of the first improvement was the 3rd death of my Velodyne HGS-15 sub. I decided to let it rest for a while and I got a 2nd Paradigm Servo-15 v2 sub. I like this sub cuz its big (I need a big sub for my big HT), it goes low (for some reason, the Velo couldn't go that low) and it has a built-in servo mechanism that prevents it from being overdriven.

Here are the 2 Digms flanking the Stratus Silver center speaker. The subs are actually quite non-descript. Big black boxes.



Second project was to build and install more bass traps. I was so impressed with the first 4 traps that I thought that 7 should be better than 4.  ;D So I did 3 more 8-foot traps and installed them at the junction between ceiling and wall. The result, as expected, is an incremental improvement which is smaller than the original improvement. While the bass was previously quite tight, it is now even tighter. I refer to the bass of the big drums - kick drum, kettle drum - and the lower octaves of the bass guitar. Obviously, any improvement in music shows up in movies as well, which are generally easier to reproduce.



I thought it would be interesting to show the following frequency response charts (sorry for the bad pictures but you should still get the idea). This first one shows the response with only one subwoofer (crossover at 80 hz), no audyssey correction and no Velo SMS-1 correction. You will notice that there is a big peak at 40 hz and somehow, the whole region from 20 to 32 hz is depressed.



This second chart shows the response with 2 subwoofers, a cut by the SMS-1 at 40 hz (there are actually 2 cuts, including a notch filter at 40 hz) and audyssey room correction. The difference between the 2 charts is like night and day. You may also notice that the curve is not absolutely flat, but this is because Audyssey considers the acoustic character of not just the main listening position but the immediate surrounding area as well (cuz you do 8 mic positions). Another thing you notice is that there seems to be a sub-sonic filter at 20 hz. In practice though, I am pretty sure that the response goes below 20 hz - this is the subsonic bass which you can't hear but which you can feel.

When you listen, the result is pretty impressive. A very tight and accurate bass. An even respose across the bass frequencies.

Next bass project will be tougher. Repair the Velo HGS-15 and integrate it with the 2 Digms. This is actually not easy. I hope I can get it to work.



great update sir mark to an already outstanding set-up!  ;D

btw, what equipment did you use to generate the bass data?  ???

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #376 on: Jul 28, 2008 at 07:42 AM »
The other recent addition was the now-ubiquitous Popcorn. Here it is sitting on top of the Velo SMS-1:



After the initial euphoria of ownership and watching high-def films which are almost indistinguishable from BD (helped of course by my video processor which upscales the 720p to 1080p and adds fine detail, etc.), + pretty good audio as well, you realize that there are a few issues:

1. Video or audio stutter. In about 20% of the flims, it was so bad that the films were not watchable. In others, they would appear 2 or 3 times during a film. Perhaps not that a big a deal but its annoying.

2. Remote sucks big-time. No ergonomics.

3. No rewind. Slow fast-forward. No chapters. But there are work-arounds. You can go to 10%, 20%, 30%, etc. of the film quickly through the numeric keypad. You can also go to a specific time point.

4. If you stop the film, you can't restart from the point you stopped.

Having said all of this, Popcorn is pretty good! Effective way to reduce BD purchases.  :)
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #377 on: Jul 28, 2008 at 07:45 AM »
great update sir mark to an already outstanding set-up!  ;D

btw, what equipment did you use to generate the bass data?  ???

It's the Velodyne SMS-1 which you can see, sitting below the Popcorn. It's essentially a parametric equalizer with a built-in Real-Time-Analyzer (RTA). There are actually much cheaper work-arounds. You can use a Behringer Feedback Destroyer and use the REW software which you can download free from the net, but the SMS-1 is more convenient.
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Offline iiinas

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #378 on: Jul 28, 2008 at 08:16 AM »
The other recent addition was the now-ubiquitous Popcorn. Here it is sitting on top of the Velo SMS-1:



After the initial euphoria of ownership and watching high-def films which are almost indistinguishable from BD (helped of course by my video processor which upscales the 720p to 1080p and adds fine detail, etc.), + pretty good audio as well, you realize that there are a few issues:

1. Video or audio stutter. In about 20% of the flims, it was so bad that the films were not watchable. In others, they would appear 2 or 3 times during a film. Perhaps not that a big a deal but its annoying.

2. Remote sucks big-time. No ergonomics.

3. No rewind. Slow fast-forward. No chapters. But there are work-arounds. You can go to 10%, 20%, 30%, etc. of the film quickly through the numeric keypad. You can also go to a specific time point.

4. If you stop the film, you can't restart from the point you stopped.

Having said all of this, Popcorn is pretty good! Effective way to reduce BD purchases.  :)

you are spot on there sir mark.

issue 1 has to do with how the encoders encode their materials into mkv (matroska containers). personally i experienced more of those issues when viewing 1080p materials, thats why i usually get the 720p materials which minimizes the stutters from 2-3/movie to 1 to none at all.

the resume function in the next firmware will hopefully address issue 4. (its in syabas' to do list already).

Offline alvinthx2

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #379 on: Jul 28, 2008 at 08:21 AM »
I've recently done a few things which have improved the bass response in my HT. The proximate cause of the first improvement was the 3rd death of my Velodyne HGS-15 sub. I decided to let it rest for a while and I got a 2nd Paradigm Servo-15 v2 sub. I like this sub cuz its big (I need a big sub for my big HT), it goes low (for some reason, the Velo couldn't go that low) and it has a built-in servo mechanism that prevents it from being overdriven.

Here are the 2 Digms flanking the Stratus Silver center speaker. The subs are actually quite non-descript. Big black boxes.



Second project was to build and install more bass traps. I was so impressed with the first 4 traps that I thought that 7 should be better than 4.  ;D So I did 3 more 8-foot traps and installed them at the junction between ceiling and wall. The result, as expected, is an incremental improvement which is smaller than the original improvement. While the bass was previously quite tight, it is now even tighter. I refer to the bass of the big drums - kick drum, kettle drum - and the lower octaves of the bass guitar. Obviously, any improvement in music shows up in movies as well, which are generally easier to reproduce.



I thought it would be interesting to show the following frequency response charts (sorry for the bad pictures but you should still get the idea). This first one shows the response with only one subwoofer (crossover at 80 hz), no audyssey correction and no Velo SMS-1 correction. You will notice that there is a big peak at 40 hz and somehow, the whole region from 20 to 32 hz is depressed.



This second chart shows the response with 2 subwoofers, a cut by the SMS-1 at 40 hz (there are actually 2 cuts, including a notch filter at 40 hz) and audyssey room correction. The difference between the 2 charts is like night and day. You may also notice that the curve is not absolutely flat, but this is because Audyssey considers the acoustic character of not just the main listening position but the immediate surrounding area as well (cuz you do 8 mic positions). Another thing you notice is that there seems to be a sub-sonic filter at 20 hz. In practice though, I am pretty sure that the response goes below 20 hz - this is the subsonic bass which you can't hear but which you can feel.

When you listen, the result is pretty impressive. A very tight and accurate bass. An even respose across the bass frequencies.

Next bass project will be tougher. Repair the Velo HGS-15 and integrate it with the 2 Digms. This is actually not easy. I hope I can get it to work.



Mark,

Very nice implementation of acoustic traps. Now, isn't it more worthwhile to upgrade the room with both passive and active solutions than spend a ton of money on new equipments (decent components to start with)?
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #380 on: Jul 28, 2008 at 08:43 AM »
Mark,

Very nice implementation of acoustic traps. Now, isn't it more worthwhile to upgrade the room with both passive and active solutions than spend a ton of money on new equipments (decent components to start with)?

Alvin, I have heard 2 good quotes which are relevant to what you say.

The first is from Chris Kyriakakis, Chief Tech Officer of Audyssey who lamented that some people will pay tons of money for a DAC which will actually provide a very tiny amount of improvement and then they put the DAC in their acoustically-challenged room which provides 10x more distortion than the cheaper DAC.

The second was: Placing good speakers in a bad room is like driving a Porsche 901 through ice and then blaming the Porsche for the poor road handling.

 :) :)

Actually, I am still working on my seat positions. I moved the seats almost 2 feet forward. I think I want to bring them back again - better soundstage - and then get a bigger screen.
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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #381 on: Jul 28, 2008 at 09:00 AM »
Mark great upgrade.

Pinagpahinga mo na ba yung velo mo?

Kelan kaya namin pwede mapakingan ulit yang HT mo :-)

jay

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #382 on: Jul 28, 2008 at 09:05 AM »
Mark great upgrades......  :o :o :o

Another huge Digm of an upgrade......and another dime (very efficient) of an upgrade in those bass traps

Congrats!!!!


Having said all of this, Popcorn is pretty good! Effective way to reduce BD purchases.  :)

Mark, Ill pm you the instructions on how to download "files".   You are gonna need hard disc space!!!!

Tama ka Mark, medyo mababawas yung BD purchases.....mga must own na lang inaabangan ko (mostly reference quality).
« Last Edit: Jul 28, 2008 at 09:25 AM by Munskie »

Offline Munskie

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #383 on: Jul 28, 2008 at 09:10 AM »
Alvin, I have heard 2 good quotes which are relevant to what you say.

The first is from Chris Kyriakakis, Chief Tech Officer of Audyssey who lamented that some people will pay tons of money for a DAC which will actually provide a very tiny amount of improvement and then they put the DAC in their acoustically-challenged room which provides 10x more distortion than the cheaper DAC.

The second was: Placing good speakers in a bad room is like driving a Porsche 901 through ice and then blaming the Porsche for the poor road handling.

 :) :)



This really makes sense.    ;)

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #384 on: Jul 28, 2008 at 10:01 AM »
Mark great upgrade.

Pinagpahinga mo na ba yung velo mo?

Kelan kaya namin pwede mapakingan ulit yang HT mo :-)

jay

Pahinga lang muna velo. Dadalhin ko sa speaker repair shop na recommend ni Alvin sa Dau.

Txt ka lang kelan mo gusto dumaan. May improvement talaga from the last time. I learned a few more things din bout the DVDO video processor. Ngayon, lahat ng sources ko ay may unique settings through the DVDO kaya mas maganda rin ang pq.
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Re: My dream theater (June 08 upgrade)
« Reply #385 on: Jul 28, 2008 at 10:02 AM »
Mark, Ill pm you the instructions on how to download "files".   You are gonna need hard disc space!!!!

Tama ka Mark, medyo mababawas yung BD purchases.....mga must own na lang inaabangan ko (mostly reference quality).

Thanks sa PM! May bago na namang pag-aaralan.  :)
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Re: My dream theater (July 08 upgrade)
« Reply #386 on: Jul 29, 2008 at 12:01 PM »
I forgot to mention my interesting solution to the CR door which was shaking with heavy LFE material.

The carpenter tightened the hinges and door knob pero may ingay pa rin so we glued a small piece of rubber on the door jamb (parang sa refrigerator) so the door has to be pulled tightly to close it. More specifically, we used a small piece of tsinelas material. Perfect!  ;D
Interesting how a tsinelas can make such a big improvement in a high-tech HT. Kahit hindi Havaianas, galing pa rin.  ;D
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline dts-HD 3D

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Re: My dream theater (July 08 upgrade)
« Reply #387 on: Jul 29, 2008 at 07:14 PM »
More specifically, we used a small piece of tsinelas material. Perfect!  ;D
Interesting how a tsinelas can make such a big improvement in a high-tech HT. Kahit hindi Havaianas, galing pa rin.  ;D

This is SPARTANNNN!!!!!  :D :D :D . . . buti tsinelas lang katapat nung rattle sir.

E di sarap ulit-ulitin ng C. Dion concert . . . lalo pa may 2nd Servo-15 na.
« Last Edit: Jul 29, 2008 at 09:01 PM by dts-HD »

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Re: My dream theater (July 08 upgrade)
« Reply #388 on: Jul 29, 2008 at 07:43 PM »
Luther, mahina pala ang C. Dion concert sa LFE. Kala ko malakas but it doesn't really go that deep. Baka pwede pa ang Destiny's Child in Las Vegas. Soldier.

Anyway, the Spartan (same brand tayo) is a big thing kasi wala na rattle kahit gaano kalalim ang bass. Ang galing!

Kaya nga si Alvin at si Marvin dapat maghanap din saan ang rattle nila at maghanda ng Spartan! Hehe!! E pinaghirapan ko rin ito!
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

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Re: My dream theater (July 08 upgrade)
« Reply #389 on: Jul 29, 2008 at 07:57 PM »
hehe . . . may tatalo pa pala sa opening ng 'Heart will go on' ni C. Dion  :o

cge sir, hanap nga ako copy ng Destiny's Child . . . para masubukan yang Soldier kung gano kalakas at kababa.  ;)