Topic: PLASMA MANUAL CALIBRATION NOT ALLOWED

[Clondalkin]

And this calibration is referring only to the basic settings and not adjusting the RGB. right? So if several members here vouch that the calibrator only used the basics, what is the problem of Pana? ...or reminder lang yun? Kasi correct me if Im wrong, wether the calibrator is from an authorized or unauhtorized dealer as long as he does not touch the RGB, then there's no problem.

The calibrator himself should be the one to confirm this.  Bakit "time-out" mode?  Advance calibration is actually desirable as long as the calibrator knows exactly what he's doing. 

Not the RGB but the Service Menu.  Sa PJ readily accessible ang RGB settings diba?   I think you can do white balance adjustments with some Hitachi TVs without going into the service menu.

I think a TV owner is not supposed to know how to access the Service Menu.  And even if he knows how to and has got the device to unlock it, he is not supposed to touch it.  If that is allowed in the first place, then that would have been included in the Owner's Operating Manual.  Has anyone seen an Operating Manual describing how to use the Service Menu and explaining what each parameter within the Service Menu represent?  It looks like a very long and detailed blood test result.

I'm wondering if it is OK for a color blind to do grayscale calibration? 

OT.  Sorry Froots. In-edit mo pala while I was typing.

[frootloops]

Ang bilis mo!.....binalik ko na.   

[ninjababez®]

barrister thanks for the clarification bro ..

OT.  Sorry Froots. In-edit mo pala while I was typing.

hehehe sakin din...

[streetsmart]

I'm wondering if it is OK for a color blind to do grayscale calibration? 

Yes. Even if you are color blind, as long as you have the proper instruments and software, you can do a proper grayscale calibration.

[surg]

boss, di ko alam kung na intindihan mo since mukhang matalino naman po kayo para mag tanong pa ng ganun or meron ka lang gustong palabasin.... basic remote lang yan boss MT. ^^)

boss, I assure you naintindihan ko at wala ako gustong palabasin. I'm just pointing out that even "authorized seller" pala also offer calibration and not only spyderman so manual calibration DEFINITELY WOULD NOT void warranty as claimed by Panaphil ERGO the warning of Panaphil is just a lot of BUL****

[barrister]

I don't see how the terms and conditions of a printed warranty officially issued by Panasonic Philippines can be validly modified by a mere internet forum post by an employee.

Can anybody cite a provision on an official Panasonic Philippines warranty that prohibits calibration?  O sige, isama na natin ang service menu.  Can anybody cite a provision on an official Panasonic Philippines warranty that prohibits adjustment of the service menu?

In my opinion, the printed warranty is controlling.  An employee's forum post cannot validly enlarge or modify it.

If the terms and conditions of the official warranty expressly or impliedly include a service menu prohibition, then an employee's warning merely clarifies and emphasizes the prohibition that already exists.  But if no service menu prohibition can be found on the official printed warranty, then an employee's pinoydvd post prohibiting it is nothing but a waste of this site's bandwidth.

[ninjababez®]

do you think it would help if i ask a guy from abenson and automatic center about this? (knowing they have limited knowledge about tweaking) 

[R1DVD]

When my plasma was calibrated, only the brightness, color, contrast, and color temperature were adjusted using the unit's remote control only, guided by the spyder software and sensor attached to the screen.  Medyo matagal din yung process (around 30 minutes), pero after the calibration, when I compared it sa default settings, kaunti-kaunti lang ang nabago.  I thought to myself, Pioneer is really great kasi out of the box, yung default setting niya ay halos malapit na rin sa calibrated settings. I didn't see him modifying the grayscale and RGB setting.  I even asked him, "hindi mo ba ia-access ang service menu " (curious kasi ako how to access it ), sabi niya di raw nila ginagalaw yun. That's why I don't understand the fuzz about spyder calibration.  I don't know about Panasonic TV.  Maybe other Panasonic owners can shed light kung paano cinalibrate ang plasma nila.

[lomi]

Based on my experience using Panasonic AE500 projector, the bulb got busted (after a few days) when I adjusted the advance settings (note: not just RGB though, inlcuding the Gammas and others).  So it is possible to shorten the life of the set when you override the default advance settings.

Although adjusting the RGB shouldn't cause problems IMO.  And it's already common for new sets of TVs.  

[Carlo777]

When my plasma was calibrated, only the brightness, color, contrast, and color temperature were adjusted using the unit's remote control only, guided by the spyder software and sensor attached to the screen.  Medyo matagal din yung process (around 30 minutes), pero after the calibration, when I compared it sa default settings, kaunti-kaunti lang ang nabago.  I thought to myself, Pioneer is really great kasi out of the box, yung default setting niya ay halos malapit na rin sa calibrated settings. I didn't see him modifying the grayscale and RGB setting.  I even asked him, "hindi mo ba ia-access ang service menu " (curious kasi ako how to access it ), sabi niya di raw nila ginagalaw yun. That's why I don't understand the fuzz about spyder calibration.  I don't know about Panasonic TV. Maybe other Panasonic owners can shed light kung paano cinalibrate ang plasma nila.

Same as yours sir, just a sensor attached to the screen and settings were adjusted via remote. No big deal bec. if you don't like results of the calibration you could simply switch back to default with just a press of a button. (calibration done for LX80,PV8,PV80)

[barrister]

do you think it would help if i ask a guy from abenson and automatic center about this? (knowing they have limited knowledge about tweaking) 

I doubt it.  Those guys will be just as useless.  If the Panasonic Phil. employee himself was useless, how could the big chain sales rep do any better?

Based on my experience using Panasonic AE500 projector, the bulb got busted (after a few days) when I adjusted the advance settings (note: not just RGB though, inlcuding the Gammas and others).  So it is possible to shorten the life of the set when you override the default advance settings.

Maybe the damage to the bulb was caused by something else.  The mere fact that the bulb got busted after calibration does not automatically mean that it was the calibration that caused it.

That's "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" ("After this, therefore because of this"), a logical fallacy which states, "Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one." 

[lomi]

Maybe the damage to the bulb was caused by something else.  The mere fact that the bulb got busted after calibration does not automatically mean that it was the calibration that caused it.

That's "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" ("After this, therefore because of this"), a logical fallacy which states, "Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one." 

Maybe.  That's why I said only a possibility.  The bulb was working properly before the calibration and had a run of about 200hrs.  I calibrated it using DVE and was not satisfied with the basic RGB, brightness, sharpness etc. so I tweaked the advance settings to get what I want.  And few days later, the bulb died on me.  But I want to set the record straight that the unit (projector) itself was not damaged nor malfunctioned after the bulb died and I only replaced the broken bulb with a new one and everything is working properly (Advance settings are back to factory defaults and only basic settings are calibrated). 

[barrister]

But I want to set the record straight that the unit (projector) itself was not damaged nor malfunctioned after the bulb died and I only replaced the broken bulb with a new one and everything is working properly. 

It's good to know that the unit itself was fine.

Maybe the old bulb had a factory defect?

[lomi]

It's good to know that the unit itself was fine.

Maybe the old bulb had a factory defect?

buti na lang nga kung hindi lagot ako haha 
I can't say it was a defect cause it's working properly.  I just want to tweak it as best I could get.  Di ko kasi makuha yung color match sa DVE on basic calibration lang. 

[Clondalkin]

I spoke with 3 Panasonic Japan technical support people.   Why 3?   I want to know if their reply would be consistent.  Here are the summary of what these 3 people explained, as I understood.  Pasi-simplehin ko nlang sentences para wala nang playing with semantics.  If you dont trust my Japanese, that's not my concern. 

1.  They cannot discuss about service menu access by an owner through technical support, but mentioned that service menu is primarily used for Service or Repair, not for fine tuning of a "TV in good working condition."

2.  An owner can make as much manual adjustments as the Operating Manual describes. 

3.  Service menu must only be accessed by authorized Panasonic personnel, if and when necessary.

4.  Panasonic Japan reserves the right to void any warranty claims if any unauthorized person modifies settings within the service menu.  The final decision can only be made once the (defective) TV is inspected by Panasonic Japan Service Center.

5.  I asked "will you do professional calibration on my TV?" - to which Panasonic Japan replied manual picture settings are available for the owner to adjust according to his/her taste.

6.  I asked "what if I dont find the available manual settings enough?" - to which Panasonic Japan repeated "an owner can make as much adjustments as the Operating Manual describes."

Ok so please be resourceful and talk to a right person in Panasonic Phil.

[whiteb16a]

When my plasma was calibrated, only the brightness, color, contrast, and color temperature were adjusted using the unit's remote control only, guided by the spyder software and sensor attached to the screen.  Medyo matagal din yung process (around 30 minutes), pero after the calibration, when I compared it sa default settings, kaunti-kaunti lang ang nabago.  I thought to myself, Pioneer is really great kasi out of the box, yung default setting niya ay halos malapit na rin sa calibrated settings. I didn't see him modifying the grayscale and RGB setting.  I even asked him, "hindi mo ba ia-access ang service menu " (curious kasi ako how to access it ), sabi niya di raw nila ginagalaw yun. That's why I don't understand the fuzz about spyder calibration.  I don't know about Panasonic TV.  Maybe other Panasonic owners can shed light kung paano cinalibrate ang plasma nila.

The same thing was done on my Pana 42PV8 before. Calibration or should I say optimization(?) was done via the unit's remote. The service menu wasn't even accessed. My optimized settings (after the so called calibration) wasn't that far from my default settings. However, due to the varied color, brightness, etc of many films I watch I still would have to do adjustments to suit my taste. It was unfortunate for me not to witness the Spyder calibration when it was done on the PV8, but I will see to it that I won't be missing it on the PV80. I'd love to see what Spyder calibration really is.

[iiinas]

I spoke with 3 Panasonic Japan technical support people.   Why 3?   I want to know if their reply would be consistent.  Here are the summary of what these 3 people explained, as I understood.  Pasi-simplehin ko nlang sentences para wala nang playing with semantics.  If you dont trust my Japanese, that's not my concern. 

1.  They cannot discuss about service menu access by an owner through technical support, but mentioned that service menu is primarily used for Service or Repair, not for fine tuning of a "TV in good working condition."

2.  An owner can make as much manual adjustments as the Operating Manual describes. 

3.  Service menu must only be accessed by authorized Panasonic personnel, if and when necessary.

4.  Panasonic Japan reserves the right to void any warranty claims if any unauthorized person modifies settings within the service menu.  The final decision can only be made once the (defective) TV is inspected by Panasonic Japan Service Center.

5.  I asked "will you do professional calibration on my TV?" - to which Panasonic Japan replied manual picture settings are available for the owner to adjust according to his/her taste.

6.  I asked "what if I dont find the available manual settings enough?" - to which Panasonic Japan repeated "an owner can make as much adjustments as the Operating Manual describes."

Ok so please be resourceful and talk to a right person in Panasonic Phil.

crystal clear naman ang sagot ng tatlong pana jap sa inyo, sir clondalkin. if only the pana phil guy had put it that way. eh di malinaw sana. 

[Clondalkin]

crystal clear naman ang sagot ng tatlong pana jap sa inyo, sir clondalkin. if only the pana phil guy had put it that way. eh di malinaw sana. 

Malinaw silang mag-Japanese and very polite (as usual).

Personally, I thought they were being diplomatic when they said the final decision on whether warranty is void or not can only be made after their own service center diagnose the problem.

[iiinas]

Malinaw silang mag-Japanese and very polite (as usual).

Personally, I thought they were being diplomatic when they said the final decision on whether warranty is void or not can only be made after their own service center diagnose the problem.

thats the japs for you. very courteous and diplomatic. 

[streetsmart]

I spoke with 3 Panasonic Japan technical support people.   Why 3?   I want to know if their reply would be consistent.  Here are the summary of what these 3 people explained, as I understood.  Pasi-simplehin ko nlang sentences para wala nang playing with semantics.  If you dont trust my Japanese, that's not my concern. 

1.  They cannot discuss about service menu access by an owner through technical support, but mentioned that service menu is primarily used for Service or Repair, not for fine tuning of a "TV in good working condition."

2.  An owner can make as much manual adjustments as the Operating Manual describes. 

3.  Service menu must only be accessed by authorized Panasonic personnel, if and when necessary.

4.  Panasonic Japan reserves the right to void any warranty claims if any unauthorized person modifies settings within the service menu.  The final decision can only be made once the (defective) TV is inspected by Panasonic Japan Service Center.

5.  I asked "will you do professional calibration on my TV?" - to which Panasonic Japan replied manual picture settings are available for the owner to adjust according to his/her taste.

6.  I asked "what if I dont find the available manual settings enough?" - to which Panasonic Japan repeated "an owner can make as much adjustments as the Operating Manual describes."

Ok so please be resourceful and talk to a right person in Panasonic Phil.

This is the exact response I would have expected. Having said that, I would still calibrate grayscale through the Service Menu. Huge difference. 

[Clondalkin]

This is the exact response I would have expected. Having said that, I would still calibrate grayscale through the Service Menu. Huge difference. 

Im having bad headaches watching (some kinds of) high def marathon.  Could that be attributable to un-calibrated grayscale or the "some kinds of" issue?   

Seriously, I'm very curious to find out how a professionally calibrated plasma would look compared to my custom settings.  Pero wala akong kilalang calibrator dito.  Wala yatang professionally calibrated HDTVs sa typical Japanese households.      Mas maselan talaga Pinoy lalo na kapag member ng PinoyDVD.   

[frootloops]

Im having bad headaches watching (some kinds of) high def marathon.  Could that be attributable to un-calibrated grayscale or the "some kinds of" issue?   

Seriously, I'm very curious to find out how a professionally calibrated plasma would look compared to my custom settings.  Pero wala akong kilalang calibrator dito.  Wala yatang professionally calibrated HDTVs sa typical Japanese households.      Mas maselan talaga Pinoy lalo na kapag member ng PinoyDVD.   

Bro, if you wish to calibrate your Plasma without adjusting the greyscale, how about getting the Avia disc in which you can order on-line? I guess calibrating your plasma and PJ is the same. I manually calibrated my plasma just by using the THX Optimizer available at my Indiana Jones Trilogy Boxset. With your resourcefulness, I'm pretty sure you can get one. 

Now with my PJ re-calibrated just recently, I had to invite a fellow member for his expertise, we used the AVIA disc which I find very elementary to use. Noticeable talaga yung result, almost night and day in terms of details. Now I stopped thinking about getting an upscaler.   

to which Panasonic Japan replied manual picture settings are available for the owner to adjust according to his/her taste.

...dati ganito lang ka-simple ang buhay natin. 

[surg]

Bro, if you wish to calibrate your Plasma without adjusting the greyscale, how about getting the Avia disc in which you can order on-line? I guess calibrating your plasma and PJ is the same. I manually calibrated my plasma just by using the THX Optimizer available at my Indiana Jones Trilogy Boxset. With your resourcefulness, I'm pretty sure you can get one. 
Now with my PJ re-calibrated just recently, I had to invite a fellow member for his expertise, we used the AVIA disc which I find very elementary to use. Noticeable talaga yung result, almost night and day in terms of details. Now I stopped thinking about getting an upscaler.   

...dati ganito lang ka-simple ang buhay natin. 

Sir, R3 po ba yun Indiana Jones Trilogy boxset nyo? If yes, how did you do it?

[frootloops]

Sir, R3 po ba yun Indiana Jones Trilogy boxset nyo? If yes, how did you do it?

R3 sir, you just have to follow the steps which will guide you to get the correct PQ, but this one only requires a blue film for the HUE part,(hue nga ba?) which I found out na incomplete, unlike the AVIA which includes a red,blue and green film (parang selophane) which gives a more accurate detail in calibrating.

[barrister]

Thanks to sir Clondalkin.  At last, a reliable explanation.

I spoke with 3 Panasonic Japan technical support people.   Why 3?   I want to know if their reply would be consistent. 

Tama yan!

If you dont trust my Japanese, that's not my concern. 

I have absolute faith in your Japanese. 

1.  They cannot discuss about service menu access by an owner through technical support, but mentioned that service menu is primarily used for Service or Repair, not for fine tuning of a "TV in good working condition."

2.  An owner can make as much manual adjustments as the Operating Manual describes. 

3.  Service menu must only be accessed by authorized Panasonic personnel, if and when necessary.

That is consistent with what the experienced users know.  The service menu is intended to be hidden from the user, to ensure that only authorized Panasonic technicians can access it.   

4.  Panasonic Japan reserves the right to void any warranty claims if any unauthorized person modifies settings within the service menu.  The final decision can only be made once the (defective) TV is inspected by Panasonic Japan Service Center.

That's logical.  If the unit's defect has nothing to do with the service menu, then the issue of whether or not the user accessed it is irrelevant. 

It is not accurate to say that mere access of the service menu automatically voids the warranty.  The usual warning is that accessing the service menu "may" invalidate the warranty; which means that accessing the service menu may invalidate the warranty only where the damage was caused by the user's unauthorized service menu modifications.   

That's why Panasonic Japan said their service center will first inspect the unit, determine what caused the damage, then finally decide whether or not the service menu modification was the cause of the damage.

Ang matindi talaga, si panaphil.  Mag-calibrate ka lang daw, void na warranty mo.    Iyan ang sabi niya, ha.  Wag nyong dagdagan ang post niya ... 

5.  I asked "will you do professional calibration on my TV?" - to which Panasonic Japan replied manual picture settings are available for the owner to adjust according to his/her taste.

6.  I asked "what if I dont find the available manual settings enough?" - to which Panasonic Japan repeated "an owner can make as much adjustments as the Operating Manual describes."

The way I understand it, they meant that you can calibrate all you want, just don't touch the service menu.

Panasonic Japan avoided answering questions 5 and 6 directly, but the message is clear enough.   Maybe they were just being polite...