Author Topic: Ultra-Low Power HTPC's for under 18k (Read 15554 times)

Verbl Kint · « **on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 03:27 PM »

I am curious as to what is the best build possible for an ultra-low power HTPC on a budget.

It should be able to do 1080p playback and consume less than 90w while on 60% system load. It would also be best if the components can easily be sourced within Metro Manila.

The reason I ask is to build a rig that can rival an NMT in Meralco frugality.

Any suggestions?

AC · « **Reply #1 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 04:22 PM »

INTEL Dual-Core Atom 330 945GC (ITX/ATX) 3870
kingston 2gb ddr2 800 ram 1050
seagate 500gb hd 2950
total 7870
case options
case#1 (will not look as sleek as the astone but have better reading/burning performance for the dvdrw)
Zeal mini-ITX w/ 180w PSU 1300
LG dvdrw x22 1250
total 10420

case#2 (will look better.. slim htpc look but mas maganda performance ng desktop dvdrw)
Astone Enforcer Mini slim ITX w/ 150 psu 1400
samsung L632 slim dvdrw (laptop dvdrw) 1800
total 11070

dm1179 · « **Reply #2 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 04:27 PM »

Quote from: AC on Mar 05, 2009 at 04:22 PM

INTEL Dual-Core Atom 330 945GC (ITX/ATX) 3870

kasali na ba ang motherboard dito? ano mga I/O ports niya for video and audio? is a video card needed?

AC · « **Reply #3 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 04:31 PM »

that is price for chip and board napo.. built in video nadin yun lang nga limited expansion niya..
walang pci/pcie

sa us.. meron na itx mobos that you can put c2d procs with pcie/pci but para magamit yung pcie/pci option.. dapat zeal yung case..

AC · « **Reply #4 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 04:33 PM »

ito po itsura..
correction.. meron pala ito pcie

hubes · « **Reply #5 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 04:35 PM »

kaya na ba yun 150-180 w na ps?

AC · « **Reply #6 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 04:50 PM »

yup.. actually yung 150 watts kayang kaya kahit pa.. yung c2d..

meron kasi ako nakitang mga itx mobos na naka c2d E8400 1tb hd...

atom po super matipid yan..

yung dual core na atom only 8watts at maximum..

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/D945GCLF2_atom_330/ <-- yan po review
check the conclusion at the last page..

Clondalkin · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 05:30 PM »

Can someone please post link(s) that proves undoubtedly that a Dual Core Atom can play high bitrate 1080p files flawlessly; not few-minute samples but full length movies?

If someone has tried Dual Core Atom 1080p playback without any hiccup during the entire length, could you please post the technical info of the file?

Can I stress test anyone's Dual Core Atom for a few hours when I visit the Philippines in April?

fredmontano · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 06:21 PM »

Of course the Little Falls 2 (dual core Atom ) can play mkvs provided that they are below the 20 MBps bitrate and using the ever efficient Coreavc codec. Fernandomontalban has successfully tested this type of rig as a full pledged HTPC connected to a SDTV. He posted his results somewhere on the HTPC thread.

Clondalkin · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 07:27 PM »

Quote from: fredmontano on Mar 05, 2009 at 06:21 PM

Of course the Little Falls 2 (dual core Atom ) can play mkvs provided that they are below the 20 MBps bitrate and using the ever efficient Coreavc codec. Fernandomontalban has successfully tested this type of rig as a full pledged HTPC connected to a SDTV. He posted his results somewhere on the HTPC thread.

If that is the technical requirement, then Dual Core Atom will play ALL mkvs available.

But is Fernando Montalban the only proof in this site? Been reading "she loves me, she loves me not" posts from various sites about the 1080p capabilities of the Dual Core Atom. Mala "WDTV Syndrome".

I've got a very wide selection of 1080ps that can prove the limits (or lack of it) of this baby. Anybody wants to put his Dual Core Atom to actual tests? I can give you something nice in return.

epic_journey · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 07:34 PM »

ano po common bitrate ng MKV files -- 720p at 1080p?

Verbl Kint · « **Reply #11 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 07:56 PM »

The above rig should come up to about 50 to 55w at 60% load.

Palitan na rin ng green power/series components (HDD, memory, etc) and you can even see a further reduction (as much as 10w).

Meron na ba tong HDMI ports? Tingin ko puwede pa to dagdagan ng TV Tuner for DVR use.

Ang pinaka importante lang talaga is that it should be able to play 1080p videos flawlessly.

Clondalkin · « **Reply #12 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 09:30 PM »

Quote from: epic_journey on Mar 05, 2009 at 07:34 PM

ano po common bitrate ng MKV files -- 720p at 1080p?

difficult to say what the common numbers are but most 720ps ripped from high def disks should be covered within 4-8Mbps range, lower than that for high def TV series compressed from TV recording. hence any system with P4 or equivalent can play 720p. highest Ive watched is about 18.5Mbps (filesize is about 20GB） thus the 20Mbps ceiling covers everything I've seen so far. because X.264 is highly efficient in terms of compression, I think it's unlikely to find an mkv exceeding 20Mbps, and even if possible, is a waste of memory.

epic_journey · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 09:45 PM »

Quote from: Clondalkin on Mar 05, 2009 at 07:27 PM

I've got a very wide selection of 1080ps that can prove the limits (or lack of it) of this baby. Anybody wants to put his Dual Core Atom to actual tests? I can give you something nice in return.

abangan ko result ng testing. if the dual-core atom can prove its capability, then i would join the bandwagon.

AC · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 10:04 PM »

wala ako solid proof.. but according sa tpc itx users kaya eh..

actually.. balak ko din nga magbuo ng isang budget htpc for our family room... kaya naghahanap ako..

Verbl Kint · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 10:51 PM »

I think I have a spare slim HD DVD / DVDRW combo drive lying around, which might prove quite useful for this rig.

Verbl Kint · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 05, 2009 at 11:53 PM »

Here's an alternative we can use:

Intel DG45FC mini-ITX P6000
- Supports Intel Core 2 Duo, upto 1333Mhz FSB
- Intel G45 (ICH10) Chipset
- HDMI and DVI output
- 2 x DDR2 667/800 RAM (4GB max)
- Intel GMA X4500HD graphics chip upto 256MB
- Intel High Definition Audio (8 channels)
- 1 x SPDIF
- 1 x GBLAN
- 6 x USB 2.0 ports
- 4 x SATA 3.0 Gb/s ports
- 1 x eSATA port
- 1 x PCI-E 1x slot

AC · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 06, 2009 at 01:00 AM »

wow maganda yan.. kayalang wala sa pilipinas.. magkano po yan?

dm1179 · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 06, 2009 at 03:12 AM »

Quote from: Verbl Kint on Mar 05, 2009 at 11:53 PM

Here's an alternative we can use:

Intel DG45FC mini-ITX P6000
- Supports Intel Core 2 Duo, upto 1333Mhz FSB
- Intel G45 (ICH10) Chipset
- HDMI and DVI output
- 2 x DDR2 667/800 RAM (4GB max)
- Intel GMA X4500HD graphics chip upto 256MB
- Intel High Definition Audio (8 channels)
- 1 x SPDIF
- 1 x GBLAN
- 6 x USB 2.0 ports
- 4 x SATA 3.0 Gb/s ports
- 1 x eSATA port
- 1 x PCI-E 1x slot

@P6,000 this costs almost double than the Emaxx, Gigabyte, or Asus AMD780G boards. supported CPU does not include the Intel Atom:

http://processormatch.intel.com/CompDB/SearchResult.aspx?Boardname=DG45FC

raptor · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 06, 2009 at 12:25 PM »

The Intel Atom based ITX motherboard is a suspect on HD audio ... it seems that there is no HDMI and digital sudio out (coax or fiber optic)

Verbl Kint · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 06, 2009 at 01:41 PM »

Quote from: dm1179 on Mar 06, 2009 at 03:12 AM

@P6,000 this costs almost double than the Emaxx, Gigabyte, or Asus AMD780G boards. supported CPU does not include the Intel Atom:

http://processormatch.intel.com/CompDB/SearchResult.aspx?Boardname=DG45FC

This board is not for the Atom, it's actually for the Core2Duo.
Intel DG45FC mini-ITX 6000
Intel Pentium (dual core 45nm) E5200 3295
kingston 2gb ddr2 800 ram 1050
seagate 500gb hd 2950
Zeal mini-ITX w/ 180w PSU 1300
LG dvdrw x22 1250

Total is P15,845. Pasok pa rin sa budget.

Around 85w to 89w at 60% load, pero since mas powerful siya sa Atom, at may onboard video, it can possibly play .mkv's on 35% to 50% load, which would put it at around 60w to 70w.

AC · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 06, 2009 at 02:08 PM »

ang problema lang po.. is.. hindi siya available sa pilipinas.. kung hindi malakas nga sana yan..

dm1179 · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 06, 2009 at 03:59 PM »

eto kaya magandang abangan? under 18k kaya ito? considering Acer X1200 SFF is P17,880.

Asus EEE Box 206 with HDMI and ATI 3450HD (256MB)

http://www.engadget.com/photos/hdmi-equipped-asus-eee-box-206-eyes-on/

Verbl Kint · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 06, 2009 at 04:53 PM »

Quote from: AC on Mar 06, 2009 at 02:08 PM

ang problema lang po.. is.. hindi siya available sa pilipinas.. kung hindi malakas nga sana yan..

From my original post about the Intel DG45FC mini-ITX:

http://www.tipidpc.com/viewitem.php?iid=2529798

P6,000 ang presyo.

AC · « **Reply #24 on:** Mar 06, 2009 at 05:48 PM »

ic.. meron na pala dito.. maganda nga yan.. 4500

fernando_montalban · « **Reply #25 on:** Mar 07, 2009 at 04:20 PM »

Quote from: AC on Mar 05, 2009 at 04:33 PM

ito po itsura..
correction.. meron pala ito pcie

PCI slot lang meron yung D945GCLF2, not PCIE

Quote from: Clondalkin on Mar 05, 2009 at 05:30 PM

Can someone please post link(s) that proves undoubtedly that a Dual Core Atom can play high bitrate 1080p files flawlessly; not few-minute samples but full length movies?

If someone has tried Dual Core Atom 1080p playback without any hiccup during the entire length, could you please post the technical info of the file?

I'm not sure how high is high but it is more than capable of playing 1080p.
For me, it plays the videos flawlessly. Then again, I'm not a videophile and may not notice minor faults during video playback. If you want, you can PM me details of what type of testing you want to see and of course how to get the data you want.

Quote from: raptor on Mar 06, 2009 at 12:25 PM

The Intel Atom based ITX motherboard is a suspect on HD audio ... it seems that there is no HDMI and digital sudio out (coax or fiber optic)

Unfortunately, this is true

. My setup is connected by VGA cable towards the HDTV and for audio, a 3.5mm headphone jack to aux input on my HT only.

Quote from: Verbl Kint on Mar 05, 2009 at 11:53 PM

Here's an alternative we can use:

Intel DG45FC mini-ITX P6000
- Supports Intel Core 2 Duo, upto 1333Mhz FSB
- Intel G45 (ICH10) Chipset
- HDMI and DVI output
- 2 x DDR2 667/800 RAM (4GB max)
- Intel GMA X4500HD graphics chip upto 256MB
- Intel High Definition Audio (8 channels)
- 1 x SPDIF
- 1 x GBLAN
- 6 x USB 2.0 ports
- 4 x SATA 3.0 Gb/s ports
- 1 x eSATA port
- 1 x PCI-E 1x slot

The thing is, I've read bad reviews about this board. It has something to do with heat issues with the NB and the entire overall build quality. Not to mention the price.

fernando_montalban · « **Reply #26 on:** Mar 08, 2009 at 02:55 PM »

By the way... I saw this available locally from another forum and I think it is within your requirements, bundle price at 15k+. All you need is an hd (add sa total price, under 18k pa rin I think). For me, this is a good buy; price, performance and ultimately size wise since mini-itx. I have the same casing, it looks great on my TV rack, very small and stylish. Not sure about power consumption though, can someone look into it? And I've heard good reviews about the 780G chipset with on board HD3200 graphics used for HTPCs.

PROC: AMD LE-1640 2.7GHz 45WATTS

BOARD: J&W 780G-SP128MB
http://www.jwele.com/motherboard_detail.php?419#_spec
- Integrated ATI Radeon™ HD 3200 Graphics
- DirectX® 10 3D graphics, Vista™ Aero Ready
- AM3 ready
- Supports AMD® Phenom™ Quad-Core Processors (65W max. is strongly recommended)
- Built-in 128 MB Local Frame Buffer (Side-port memory)
- Supports ATI Avivo™ HD technology and built-in Universal Video Decoder (UVD) which leverages CPU consumption when play HD movie, hence power-saving
- Designed with 100% high quality solid capacitors and components to ensure high performance and great longevity
- One PCI-Express slot for expansion
- Two DDR2 SO-DIMM slots for extensible upgrade
- 7.1+2 Channel High-Performance HDA Codec with Content Protection

HSF: 1U CPU cooler (LOW PROFILE)

MEMORY: 2GB Team Elite DDR2 667

CASING: APEX Casing w/ 300W PSU

Clondalkin · « **Reply #27 on:** Mar 09, 2009 at 09:56 AM »

Hi Fernando Montalban. Are you based in Metro Manila? Which area? Thanks.

red_one · « **Reply #28 on:** Mar 09, 2009 at 10:05 AM »

i read from another forum that Emaxx AMD780G-PRO is just a re-branded J&W 780G. i downloaded the J&W manual and it is indeed the same with Emaxx.

J&W 780G board:

Emaxx 780G board:

fernando_montalban · « **Reply #29 on:** Mar 09, 2009 at 03:10 PM »

Quote from: red_one on Mar 09, 2009 at 10:05 AM

i read from another forum that Emaxx AMD780G-PRO is just a re-branded J&W 780G. i downloaded the J&W manual and it is indeed the same with Emaxx.

J&W 780G board:

Emaxx 780G board:

These boards are another alternative.

Although, The J&W 780G that I posted earlier has a different Rear I/O with spdif in/out and esata and ultimately smaller, ITX board. These J&W and emaxx boards are MATX boards, it is bigger than ITX. Same chipset and on board graphics though. The feature set of the J&W I posted is better, I think.

Then again, the ITX J&W board is only an option when you want to build a really small HTPC. There are a lot of matx boards that are cheaper and have almost the same features, just like what red_one posted.