Topic: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines

[dpogs]

Sir, I'm still trying to take you seriously, but which one is it?

Atheists must follow a moral standard, or

Atheists do not have the capability to be moral?

Atheist and Theist on the first place has different view of morality.

Morality according to Theist (and in most cases - statistically wise - in the philippines - Christians) consult their bible or a standards set by God

Morality according to Atheist has no basis (correct me if I am wrong) of morality. and if you believe that what makes human different from animals is to discern moral and imoral (dito na tayo magkakalabuan).

Atheists must follow a moral standard

Yes. Atheist must folow a set of universal standard, where this set of universal moral standard since (correct me again if i am wrong) atheist as i see them... tend to adjust theri sense of morality in their sorroundings.

Atheists do not have the capability to be moral?

What I believe? God created human in His own image. meaning with sense of God. you are right... we are a rational being... know what is moral and immoral. but as you can see... there is another force in our belief. If there is God... then there is Satan... this so called SAtan blinded humanity so that they cannot clearly see what is differentiate moral to immoral acts. Because of this blindness, we cannot discern what is right and wrong but still we are aware that there is God. That is why Bible was written to remind us what is right and wrong and to set a standard of morality in humankind.

Its not only the atheist sir. its the whole humankind.

[alistair]

but in the Bible there are only two species: human and animals.

I see. All the animals that Adam named, and all animals that went on Noah's Ark belong to the same species.

and in nature there are only two things that exist: living and non-living, positive or negative, north pole or south pole, action and reaction, right and wrong

Ok. Two things. Which two things again? "Humans" and "animals", right?

I'm confused.

and in the Bible there are only two fources that exist: good and evil. God and Satan. if you are not God's then your Satan's

Two forces: good and evil.

I guess these forces cause apples to fall from trees, right? It must be good (or is it evil?) for an apple to fall from the tree.

And I guess somehow electromagnetism can be derived from good and evil. The batteries on my cellphone are good, but the photons that show nudie pictures on my laptop are evil. Somehow.

as simple as that. No need to explain things in different perspective.

Gotcha.

This is my belief as a creationist. because when we makes things complicated it only just show how foolish we are.

I honestly admire your simple outlook on life.

Now, does everyone else believe the same things you do?

Should everyone else believe the same things you do?

If believe in Santa Claus, and I say, those who don't believe in Santa Claus are naughty because Santa's not watching them, therefore, we should make a law that says only those who believe in Santa Claus can have presents on Christmas, because it's as simple as that, no need to explain—would you still take me seriously?

[alistair]

Morality according to Atheist has no basis (correct me if I am wrong) of morality.

Sir, honestly, there's no need to try and correct you anymore. It's as simple as that. No need to explain from a different perspective. You don't even want to listen.

you are right... we are a rational being... know what is moral and immoral.

I'm sorry, sir, but I'm not sure of that anymore.

I think you're beginning to convince me that some people are completely irrational (QED) and cannot tell right from wrong.

[sardaukar]

If believe in Santa Claus, and I say, those who don't believe in Santa Claus are naughty because Santa's not watching them, therefore, we should make a law that says only those who believe in Santa Claus can have presents on Christmas, because it's as simple as that, no need to explain—would you still take me seriously?

I guess only if you have a Santa Claus bible. Or any sufficiently old Santa book. Well, maybe not even then...

[indie boi]

Does cleavage immoral: yes

With all due respect, a woman's cleavage is a god-given part of her. Are you telling me all of the women in your church had elective radical mastectomy? That's some strong faith, sir.

[dpogs]

i mean women purposely displaying their cleavage to public.

[indie boi]

i mean women purposely displaying their cleavage to public.

So hindi sila pwedeng magswimming? As far as I know, wala pang swimsuit na turtleneck.

[alistair]

They can't accept evolution because it's not in the bible but if people get sick, they suddenly go to doctors who, from what I know, never got their education from the bible.

Some religious refuse to bring their sick children to doctors, insisting on prayer or "It's all up to God's will".

[bumblebee]

Meron namang cleavage display na tastefully done.

Indie, meron. Yung officemate ko, ganun yung speedo nya

[indie boi]

Some religious refuse to bring their sick children to doctors, insisting on prayer or "It's all up to God's will".

Yup, Christian Scientists, who I collectively think are a french fry short of a Happy Meal.

[indie boi]

Meron namang cleavage display na tastefully done.

Indie, meron. Yung officemate ko, ganun yung speedo nya

Oh, yeah, meron nga.   Pero bakat pa din yung hulma ng breasts, which, I think is still immoral.

[alistair]

So hindi sila pwedeng magswimming? As far as I know, wala pang swimsuit na turtleneck.

Puwede sir, pero kailangan naka burqini.

[alistair]

Meron namang cleavage display na tastefully done.

Sir, personally, I think all cleavage display is tastefully done.

[indie boi]

Puwede sir, pero kailangan naka burqini.

Looks like Islam and Fundamentalist Christianity actually have a lot of things in common. 

[bumblebee]

Sir, personally, I think all cleavage display is tastefully done.

Di naman lahat. Yung ke Madam Auring and the likes, hindi.

[sardaukar]

dpogs,

Have you considered my question already?

So you're perfectly fine with this passage?

Deuteronomy 13:7-11
'If your brother, the son of your father or of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the spouse whom you embrace, or your most intimate friend, tries to secretly seduce you, saying 'Let us go and serve other gods' unknown to you or your ancestors before you, gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near you or far away, anywhere throughout the world, you must not consent, you must not listen to him; you must show him no pity, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. No, you must kill him, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of all the rest of the people following. You must stone him to death, since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God.'

Find it moral?

[choy]

I agree sir.

So is Creation 'science'.

At least evolutionary science is consistent with biology, genetics, geology, archaeology, paleontology, and a whole bunch of other -ologies.

surprisingly, if you look at the order of creation, its not far off from what evolution and the big bang is proposing.  and remember that Genesis was written 4000 years ago

first day, let there be light.  big bang
second day, separation of the waters above from the waters below, creation of the heavens, the universe.  of course the ancients thought the blue in the sky is the same water as the blue below, but thats according to their 2500BC knowledge.  still not far off, you float in space as you float in water
only the third and fourth days are off since the land of the earth came before the stars and the sun
fifth day, all other living things
sixth day, man


you have to admit, for such an ancient civilization to figure out the order thats pretty close to how modern scientists see the order to be.  other creation stories aren't as feasible as the one in Genesis

[indie boi]

only the third and fourth days are off since the land of the earth came before the stars and the sun

But I thought the Bible is infallible?

[dpogs]

Some religious refuse to bring their sick children to doctors, insisting on prayer or "It's all up to God's will".

I still believe sa katagang "Nasa Diyos ang awa, nasa tao ang gawa."


If a person prays to God to give him/her knowledge or wisdom to pass the board exam and then dont even try to review. Do you think God will answer his/her prayer?

A man earnestly praying to have a very understanding, kind and loving wife. And then, wala pa rin siyang makitang asawa. Why... the woman na para dapat sa kanya is praying to have a very understanding, kind and loving husband. Lesson: bakit ka hihingi ng asawa na mabait samantalang ikaw hindi mabait, ipagkakaloob ba sa iyo ng Panginoon iyon?

A PDVD member praying na magkaroon siya ng bluray player and then do nothing not even working. God did not taught us to be lazy on the first place.

[indie boi]

A man earnestly praying to have a very understanding, kind and loving wife. And then, wala pa rin siyang makitang asawa. Why... the woman na para dapat sa kanya is praying to have a very understanding, kind and loving wife.

You just described a religious lesbian sir.   

[dpogs]

oops... typo error... instead of wife... husband... stand corrected. thank you.

[alistair]

surprisingly, if you look at the order of creation, its not far off from what evolution and the big bang is proposing.  and remember that Genesis was written 4000 years ago

first day, let there be light.  big bang
second day, separation of the waters above from the waters below, creation of the heavens, the universe.  of course the ancients thought the blue in the sky is the same water as the blue below, but thats according to their 2500BC knowledge.  still not far off, you float in space as you float in water
only the third and fourth days are off since the land of the earth came before the stars and the sun
fifth day, all other living things
sixth day, man

Honestly, sir, I get what you're saying and I have to admit that, to some extent I'm inclined to agree.

However, I can't reconcile the Genesis creation account and a young earth or young universe. All the math and physics and astronomy and cosmology I've read point to a Universe and an Earth that's older that 10,000 years old.

All the historical records around the time of Christ (Biblical, Roman, Greek, Chinese) do not point to living dinosaurs walking the earth around that time. Yet, some Creation 'science' (such as the Creationist Museum) insists that Man co-existed with the dinosaurs. We even have some children's coloring books claiming Jesus rode on dinosaurs. This, I find absurd.

you have to admit, for such an ancient civilization to figure out the order thats pretty close to how modern scientists see the order to be.  other creation stories aren't as feasible as the one in Genesis

Aliens?

[alistair]

Di naman lahat. Yung ke Madam Auring and the likes, hindi.

I humbly stand corrected.

[dpogs]

dpogs,

Deuteronomy 13:7-11
'If your brother, the son of your father or of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the spouse whom you embrace, or your most intimate friend, tries to secretly seduce you, saying 'Let us go and serve other gods' unknown to you or your ancestors before you, gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near you or far away, anywhere throughout the world, you must not consent, you must not listen to him; you must show him no pity, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. No, you must kill him, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of all the rest of the people following. You must stone him to death, since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God.'

Find it moral?

Have you considered my question already?

Just read this link: http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-deuteronomy-13-6-11.htm

Its like depending your own country. Its like depending yourself from possible death attack.

If you read carefull Deut. 13.

[choy]

Honestly, sir, I get what you're saying and I have to admit that, to some extent I'm inclined to agree.

However, I can't reconcile the Genesis creation account and a young earth or young universe. All the math and physics and astronomy and cosmology I've read point to a Universe and an Earth that's older that 10,000 years old.

All the historical records around the time of Christ (Biblical, Roman, Greek, Chinese) do not point to living dinosaurs walking the earth around that time. Yet, some Creation 'science' (such as the Creationist Museum) insists that Man co-existed with the dinosaurs. We even have some children's coloring books claiming Jesus rode on dinosaurs. This, I find absurd.
Aliens?

well, the official Church stand on this is that they don't subscribe to the Creationist view nor to the Evolutionary view.  what they advice believers is that no matter what they believe in how the world came to be, the most important thing is that we believe it all originated from God, and happened by His will.

that is the official stand of the Church

so if you're Catholic, you don't have to believe in Creationism to be in communion with Church beliefs

[alistair]

Just read this link: http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-deuteronomy-13-6-11.htm

Its like depending your own country. Its like depending yourself from possible death attack.

If you read carefull Deut. 13.

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."
- Matthew 7:12

So, would you welcome the Catholic Inquisition burning you at the stake after excommunication? After all, if you're willing to kill your brother,

"Then do to him as he intended to do to his brother. You must purge the evil from among you."
- Deut 19:19

[indie boi]

Just read this link: http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-deuteronomy-13-6-11.htm

Its like depending your own country. Its like depending yourself from possible death attack.

If you read carefull Deut. 13.

So it really is moral and justifiable.

[dpogs]

I still believe in death penalty.

If that is the capital punishment back then.... so be it.

But according to Paul... if our life was threatened, our faith was threatened and our life is at stakes.... if there is a possiblity of scape then scape... if not then be ready to defend yourself.


to murder an innocent people is immoral and sin.

[sardaukar]

Glad we don't live in those times anymore or dpogs could have already killed us for what we've been doing here, nay, he would have been morally obligated to kill us.

[darth mond]

when it comes to moral issue... i consult the Bible.

Does homosexuality immoral: yes
Does abortioni immoral: yes
Does adultery immoral: yes
Does showing your private parts in public immoral: yes
Does kissing before marriage immora: yes
Does pre-marital sex immoral: yes
How about RH bill: i always believe a safe sex practice (natural way) between two legal couples but not abortion of course. and i disagree taking pills not on its moral issue but on its possible negative effect sa katawan ng misis ko.
Does cleavage immoral: yes

using internet: not
using internet to view pornography: yes
using electricity: not
using electricity to use for our carnal desires: yes
reading magazines: not
reading playboy: yes

but when in doubt dont do it.


universal set of moral standard. there must exist in the whole world, mapa theist man o atheist must follow universal set of moral standard.

question: where do we base our moral standard. suggestion ko: bible

if other religion disagree: why not try culmination of all moral belief ng lahat ng religion and since atheist claimed that they are not a religion... their moral view will not be included.

Sir, is masturbation immoral? also pornography? Also kissing before marriage? and looking at cleavage? If that's the case, I fear for all my friends. Mahilig kasi sila sa ganyan eh. yung iba mga taga pinoydvd pa.