Author Topic: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines  (Read 84860 times)

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Offline bumblebee

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1380 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 01:28 PM »
is being 'Agnostic' or 'Atheist' the same as "blaspheme against the Holy Ghost" - the unforgivable sin?

I don't think so because the atheist is not part of that group, right?
« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2015 at 01:29 PM by bumblebee »

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1381 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 01:37 PM »
is being 'Agnostic' or 'Atheist' the same as "blaspheme against the Holy Ghost" - the unforgivable sin?

Taken from:
https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2012/10/what-is-the-unforgivable-sin/

Quote
“If you’re worried that you may be guilty of the unforgivable sin, you almost certainly are not,” Rick Cornish aptly points out in his book Five Minute Theologian. “Concern about committing it reveals the opposite attitude of what the sin is. Those who might be guilty wouldn’t care because they have no distress or remorse over the possibility.”
Jesus talked about the unforgivable sin in Matthew 12:31-32: “And I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”
Let’s face it – that’s a very sobering teaching! But let’s put it into context. Note that Jesus didn’t address his comments to his disciples or a mere crowd. He was talking specifically to Pharisees who had personally witnessed his miracle of completely and instantly healing a blind and mute demon-possessed man (Matthew 12:22). Rather than acknowledging the obvious fact that Jesus was exercising divine powers, the Pharisees were so spiritually depraved that they attributed his power to Satan (v. 24).
“Their problem was not blind ignorance, but willful rejection,” pointed out Cornish. “That deliberate refusal to believe, even though knowing the truth, seems to be what Jesus called the unforgivable sin.”
As the Quest Study Bible puts it, “Jesus gave the solemn warning in these verses to people whose hard-heartedness placed them on the brink of disaster. Blasphemy against the Spirit evidently is not just a one-time offense; rather, it is an ongoing attitude of rebellion – a stubborn way of life that continually resists, rejects and insults the Holy Spirit. This is what makes it, in effect, an eternal sin (Mark 3:29). Blasphemy against the Spirit is not unforgivable because of something done unintentionally in the past, but because of something being done deliberately and unrelentingly in the present.”
So if you’re an authentic Christian, don’t spend time fretting over whether you have accidentally committed this unforgivable offense. “There is no biblical evidence that a genuine Christian can commit this (unforgivable) sin,” says the Apologetics Study Bible. “Fear that one has done so is probably a good sign that one hasn’t, for full-fledged apostasy is a defiant rejection of everything Christian and lacks the tender conscience that would be worried about such an action.”

Another point of view:

Quote
Question: "What is the unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin?"

Answer: The case of the “unpardonable sin/unforgivable sin” or “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30  and Matthew 12:22-32 . The term “blasphemy” may be generally defined as “defiant irreverence.” We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God or willfully degrading things relating to Him. It is also attributing some evil to God, or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case of blasphemy, however, is a specific one called “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit” in Matthew 12:31 . In this passage, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that He was possessed by the demon Beelzebub (Matthew 12:24 ). In Mark 3:30 , Jesus is very specific about what exactly they did to commit “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.”

This blasphemy then has to do with accusing Jesus Christ (in person, on earth) of being demon-possessed. There are other ways to blaspheme the Holy Spirit (such as lying to Him, as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-10 ), but the accusation against Jesus was the blasphemy that was unpardonable. This specific unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today.

The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. John 3:16  tells us, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” The only condition in which someone would have no forgiveness is if he/she is not among the “whoever” that believes in Him. Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6 ). To reject the only means of salvation is to condemn oneself to an eternity in hell because to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.

Many people fear they have committed some sin that God cannot or will not forgive, and they feel there is no hope for them, no matter what they do. Satan would like nothing better than to keep us laboring under this misconception. The truth is that if a person has this fear, he/she needs only to come before God, confess that sin, repent of it, and accept God’s promise of forgiveness. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9 ). This verse assures us that God is ready to forgive any sin—no matter how heinous—if we come to Him in repentance. If you are suffering under a load of guilt today, God is waiting with His arms open in love and compassion for you to come to Him. He will never disappoint or fail to pardon those who do.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/unpardonable-sin.html#ixzz3SpJC4aaJ

I don't think so because the atheist is not part of that group, right?

I think so sir. But its really logical. If you don't believe in the God of Christianity, then it's logical that you are commiting a serious sin from the Christian God's point of view and therefore do not have salvation. But then again it's not of importance to the atheist or unbeliever kasi they don't believe in said faith. How can you be saved by a God you don't believe?

And same goes I think for the muslims. If you do not believe in thier God Allah, then you are considered an infidel, and of course, walang salvation. Ang difference lang probably is as Christians, you are so commanded to love your enemies including atheists, unbelievers and theists.  :-*
« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2015 at 01:45 PM by Nelson de Leon »

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1382 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 01:56 PM »
I think so sir. But its really logical. If you don't believe in the God of Christianity, then it's logical that you are commiting a serious sin from the Christian God's point of view and therefore do not have salvation. But then again it's not of importance to the atheist or unbeliever kasi they don't believe in said faith. How can you be saved by a God you don't believe?

And same goes I think for the muslims. If you do not believe in thier God Allah, then you are considered an infidel, and of course, walang salvation. Ang difference lang probably is as Christians, you are so commanded to love your enemies including atheists, unbelievers and theists.  :-*

I don't get this, we cannot fault people for not believing, can we?

Offline luis

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1383 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 01:57 PM »

as Christians, you are so commanded to love your enemies including atheists, unbelievers and theists.  :-*

+1  :)

Offline leomarley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1384 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 02:08 PM »

ah okay! I believe there is a higher being but I dont want to be associated to ANY religion at all, though I have high respect for all of them...

You sound more like an agnostic theist rather than just a theist.

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1385 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 03:53 PM »
I don't get this, we cannot fault people for not believing, can we?

Yes sir. You're correct with the word we meaning tayo. But it's not we sir, it's the Deity who is faulting people for not believing.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1386 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 03:56 PM »
Yes sir. You're correct with the word we meaning tayo. But it's not we sir, it's the Deity who is faulting people for not believing.

So for the Deity, anyone not believing is damned?

Offline dpogs

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1387 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 04:02 PM »
So for the Deity, anyone not believing is damned?

John 3:16

There still hope. :)
« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2015 at 04:06 PM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1388 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 05:09 PM »
So for the Deity, anyone not believing is damned?

That's what it says sir. Based on christian scriptures, we must be sinless if we are to die and be with the Lord. However, it is impossible for us to be sinless because everyday na lang, we always sin. Sin of omission, sin of coveting, lying etc. And the Lord knows that for sure. Hence, in the old testament, puro offerings ang ginagawa ng mga israelites. The best calf, cow, bull at kung anu-ano pa to please the Lord. However, imagine a God being perfect, it was not enough. So the Lord, sent Jesus Christ, who was from the very beginning, predestined to die for our sins. Imagine a God being, sending His only Son, for us humans to teach us how to live in His way, and to die for the sins of others. Now that is true Love! You can somehow picture this as a father whose son was convicted of murder by the court and was sentenced to death. As a father that we are, if given a chance to take our son's place in the death chamber, we definitely would, in order to give our son a chance in life.
Then of course, since Jesus was also a Diety, He was resurrected and went back to the Heavenly realm. And since it was Jesus who died at the cross for the sins of man, in order for us the have that salvation, we must first accept Jesus Christ to be our Savour from sin. Hence the assurance of eternal life in the heavenly realm.

John 3:16

There still hope. :)

That is why it is written:

John 3:16 New International Version (NIV)

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

In connection with these verses:

John 14:6 New International Version (NIV)

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

sidenote:

Apologies kung medjo na-OT ako dito sa thread na ito.
« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2015 at 05:11 PM by Nelson de Leon »

Offline shrek7

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1389 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 08:57 PM »
You sound more like an agnostic theist rather than just a theist.
grabe! Di ko na naman alam yun, hehehe, sir leomarley kindly enlighten me kung ano po yung agnostic theist. TIA

Offline leomarley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1390 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 09:11 PM »
simple answer from wikipedia:

Agnostic theism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. An agnostic theist believes in the existence of at least one deity, but regards the basis of this proposition as unknown or inherently unknowable.

there are different types of agnostics kasi. there are the agnostic theist, agnostic atheist, apathetic agnostic (thinks a deity may exist that doesn't care about it's creation), strong agnostic (strictly believes that the existence of a deity is unknowable), and weak agnostic(waiting for evidence).

since you believe there is a higher being but don't believe in any form of religion then you are an agnostic theist. i'm somewhere between an apathetic and weak agnostic.

Offline shrek7

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1391 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 09:14 PM »
An agnostic theist is thus a person who relies on a sort of faith: they believe in a god without the sort of evidence that would entail knowing that their god exist.

sir, mukhang di po yata ako ganito, I know my God and have constant communication and good relationship with him...

Offline leomarley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1392 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 09:16 PM »
oh ok, so theist ka nga. hehe

so just to be clear, you believe in the christian God but does not necessarily believe in christian dogmas?
« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2015 at 09:19 PM by leomarley »

Offline shrek7

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1393 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 09:24 PM »
simple answer from wikipedia:

Agnostic theism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. An agnostic theist believes in the existence of at least one deity, but regards the basis of this proposition as unknown or inherently unknowable.

there are different types of agnostics kasi. there are the agnostic theist, agnostic atheist, apathetic agnostic (thinks a deity may exist that doesn't care about it's creation), strong agnostic (strictly believes that the existence of a deity is unknowable), and weak agnostic(waiting for evidence).

since you believe there is a higher being but don't believe in any form of religion then you are an agnostic theist. i'm somewhere between an apathetic and weak agnostic.
thanks for the answer sir! Really appreciate it, iba lang siguro ang belief ko sa diyos ko, may kahalong science, math, bible, feng shui at marami pang iba! Hahaha!

Offline shrek7

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1394 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 09:33 PM »
oh ok, so theist ka nga. hehe

so just to be clear, you believe in the christian God but does not necessarily believe in christian dogmas?
my God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, i also believe in some christian dogmas, though I also believe in some, taoists, budhist, scientologists dogma's. Halo halo, thats why I respect them all.

Offline barrister

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1395 on: Feb 26, 2015 at 10:30 PM »
my God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, i also believe in some christian dogmas, though I also believe in some, taoists, budhist, scientologists dogma's. Halo halo, thats why I respect them all.

You might be surprised, but I believe that according to the bible, God is omnipotent, but He is not omniscient or omnipresent. 

This view is controversial, and it will require a very complex analysis.

Offline shrek7

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1396 on: Feb 27, 2015 at 02:15 AM »

You might be surprised, but I believe that according to the bible, God is omnipotent, but He is not omniscient or omnipresent. 

This view is controversial, and it will require a very complex analysis.
@ sir barrister

i respect yung paniniwala mo sir!  Pero Ganyan pala sir ka-limited ang pagkakakilala mo sa kanya. (sorry, wrong reply yung kanina, di tlaga konek yun, intended for someone else)
« Last Edit: Feb 27, 2015 at 12:00 PM by shrek7 »

Offline barrister

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1397 on: Feb 27, 2015 at 07:55 AM »


Hindi yata kami nagkaintindihan... :D
« Last Edit: Feb 27, 2015 at 07:55 AM by barrister »

Offline sirhc

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1398 on: Feb 27, 2015 at 08:15 AM »

You might be surprised, but I believe that according to the bible, God is omnipotent, but He is not omniscient or omnipresent. 

This view is controversial, and it will require a very complex analysis.

Care to expound on that atty? I'm just curious, would being not omniscient and omnipresent would negate his being omnipotent? By the definition itself, an omnipotent being can technically be able to know everything and be everywhere.
Never stop learning.

Offline barrister

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1399 on: Feb 27, 2015 at 09:09 AM »
Care to expound on that atty? I'm just curious, would being not omniscient and omnipresent would negate his being omnipotent? By the definition itself, an omnipotent being can technically be able to know everything and be everywhere.

 
My beliefs are based on the bible.  Therefore, I restrict myself to the discipline of confining the concept of omnipotence as defined in the bible, not as defined in a dictionary or an encyclopedia.
 
I can't discuss it fully on this thread, since this thread is about atheism/agnosticism.  But I'll be glad to expound if you will kindly repost your question here: http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,141525.1170.html
 
In the meantime, here's a brief overview:
 
1. God is not omnipresent.  He is in heaven; he is not "everywhere."
 
2. God is not omniscient.  He knows what we are thinking, but He does not know beforehand what we are going to think.
« Last Edit: Feb 27, 2015 at 09:12 AM by barrister »

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1401 on: Jul 08, 2015 at 07:23 PM »

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1402 on: Jul 27, 2015 at 11:15 AM »

Offline DVD_Freak

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1403 on: Jul 27, 2015 at 11:25 AM »
Is he likewise a comedian Klaus?

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1404 on: Jul 27, 2015 at 12:48 PM »
You don't know who Penn Jillette is? You're missing out!

Offline DVD_Freak

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1405 on: Jul 27, 2015 at 01:27 PM »
You don't know who Penn Jillette is? You're missing out!

Yeah I don't.  So is he a comedian as well?

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1406 on: Jul 27, 2015 at 02:48 PM »
Yeah I don't.  So is he a comedian as well?

Sort of, kind of. He's more known as a magician actually along with his partner Teller. Here they are in action.

They also had a documentary/reality show called Penn & Teller: Bullsh*t where they do a lot of debunking of stuff (from paranormal claims to ridiculous political movements).

Offline bosyo

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1407 on: Sep 06, 2015 at 08:27 PM »
Looking a test track @ YT for my 5" speaker to tests the lows
Until I found a rap song and I liked the lows and notice/heard he was talking about religion.

Listen to the song carefully/closely
No fun intended

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBsA2ETp7JA

WARNING: There are some BAD or ALL words in the lyrics
« Last Edit: Sep 06, 2015 at 10:00 PM by bosyo »
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