Topic: UFC thread..where the big boys play...

[raider125jeigh]

just watch the replay of travis vs fab..... verdum seems to be really confident and the quick jab and great footwork sealed the deal....

[VenoM_Unleashed]

Bukas na ...

UFC 172 weigh-in results: Jon Jones, Glover Teixeira official for title fight
http://mmajunkie.com/2014/04/ufc-172-live-and-official-weigh-in-results

Magkakaroon kaya ng bagong champion sa LHW?

[reenoip]

ufc 172 na bukas.. bugbugan na.. 

[XanderCage]

ufc 172 na bukas.. bugbugan na.. 

shet buti napaalala mo. haha.

[reenoip]

shet buti napaalala mo. haha.

 

[kane]

Wala talaga makatalo kay bones. Closest was Gus talaga. Si Cormier kaya?

[Ninja Assasin]

parang ginagawa na ni Greg Jackson scoring machine si JBJ. si Gustaffson next??

[Gino]

Awesome show. Sulit.

[VenoM_Unleashed]

Iba talaga galaw ni Bones Jones, iba din ang gulang kahit bata pa 

Move up na sa HW and challenge Cain Velasquez or move down and challenge Chris Weidman.

[disturbed]

bagay tlga ke Jones ung Bones na nick..sa haba nya yung elbows ang pinang hhook..lol

[reenoip]

bagay tlga ke Jones ung Bones na nick..sa haba nya yung elbows ang pinang hhook..lol

naaawa ako kay teixeira kahapon.. pinakain ng pinakain ng siko.. 

[hotrod]

Ang kulet din ng open hand technique ni jones, tinatakpan nya yung face ni glover 

One aspect of Jones' game this is not very admirable is his use of the open hand jab. While impossible to speak with certainty, it really looks like Jones is attempting to poke his opponents in the eye with his out stretched fingers. This is a known tactic on the part of Jones and he gets far too much leeway from referees on it , and provides a prime example of why any confirmed eye poke should be an automatic point deduction, regardless of warnings or if the referee can discern intent.

[VenoM_Unleashed]

^ Yun ang sinasabi ko na gulang, may warning na si Bones sa ref for doing that sabi ng ref he will deduct a point, pero hindi na deduct ng point nun ginawa nya ulit yun. Sana ang ginawa ni Teixeira nun nilagay ulit yung fingers sa mukha nya, nag pa poke sya sa eye para natuluyang mabawasan ng point si Bones at hindi na ulit gawin kasi delikado sya ma-disqualified. Kaso kulang din sa gulang si Teixeira. But I don't blame Bones for doing that, kasama talaga sa laro or laban 'yung gulang.

[ziggy zuggy]

Iba talaga galaw ni Bones Jones, iba din ang gulang kahit bata pa 

Move up na sa HW and challenge Cain Velasquez or move down and challenge Chris Weidman.

he cant go down. -20lbs on his frame is too much
if he goes up, he loses a lot of his advantages(reach, relative strength:weight, relative power:weight)
the only thing he keeps is his versatile striking and creative submissions. Talagang pang LHW lang si jones

[VenoM_Unleashed]

^ Hindi na bago sa fighters ng UFC 'yung transition sa ibang weight class. Si Spider Silva from MW lumaban thrice sa LHW. Si Lyoto Machida from LHW lumipat sa MW. Si Dan Henderson, sabay hinawakan 'yung belt sa dalawang weight classes sa Pride FC.

Doon nga magkaka-alaman kung gaano kalupit si Bones kung kaya nya hawakan 'yung dalawang belt. Si Anthony Pettis 'yun ang plano eh.

[XanderCage]

only way for jones is to go up, di pwede down to middleweight, he is too huge to join the 185lbs class.

[ziggy zuggy]

^ Hindi na bago sa fighters ng UFC 'yung transition sa ibang weight class. Si Spider Silva from MW lumaban thrice sa LHW. Si Lyoto Machida from LHW lumipat sa MW. Si Dan Henderson, sabay hinawakan 'yung belt sa dalawang weight classes sa Pride FC.

Doon nga magkaka-alaman kung gaano kalupit si Bones kung kaya nya hawakan 'yung dalawang belt. Si Anthony Pettis 'yun ang plano eh.

The issue isn't about whether its doable or not, its about his capabilities in that division
He wont do it because his HW career wont be spectacular as his LHW
This guy's goal is to cement his name in history; and he wont get there by fighting at HW where majority of his advantages over LHW fighters are minimized(reach advantage shortened from 22cm-28cm down to 14-19cm; strength:weight; power:weight)
Why would he go for a HW career with blemishes and possibly no championship, when the LHW guys knocking at his door are still enough keep his name shining

Differences between Jones and Silva:
Anderson moved up because he didnt have legit competition in his division(as early as 07, he was far ahead of #1,2,3..). Jones' #1 to #10 are all solid contenders

[VenoM_Unleashed]

The issue isn't about whether its doable or not, its about his capabilities in that division
He wont do it because his HW career wont be spectacular as his LHW
This guy's goal is to cement his name in history; and he wont get there by fighting at HW where majority of his advantages over LHW fighters are minimized(reach advantage shortened from 22cm-28cm down to 14-19cm; strength:weight; power:weight)
Why would he go for a HW career with blemishes and possibly no championship, when the LHW guys knocking at his door are still enough keep his name shining

Differences between Jones and Silva:
Anderson moved up because he didnt have legit competition in his division(as early as 07, he was far ahead of #1,2,3..). Jones' #1 to #10 are all solid contenders

Simple lang, for greatness.

Why would Anthony Pettis challenge a very dangerous fighter like Jose Aldo kung meron nanaman syang Belt? Jon "Bones" Jones name is already cemented, sino pa ba kailangan nyang labanan sa LHW, eh halos lahat ng nasa top rankings tinalo na ni Bones. Si Gustafsson ang no. 1, ang bago lang si Cormier (No. 4) saka si Anthony Johnson (No. 9). Mas mase-semento siguro pangalan ni Bones kung tatalunin nya din nya 'yung who's who ng ibang division.

Pwede din naman catch-weight.

Edit:

Gusto naman pala ni Bones
Jon Jones Targets Permanent Move to Heavyweight and Super Fight with Cain Velasquez
Posted on November 27, 2013 by Erik Fontanez
http://www.mmaweekly.com/jon-jones-targets-permanent-move-to-heavyweight-and-super-fight-with-cain-velasquez

But Dana White has other plans
Jon 'Bones' Jones far away from superfight, says Dana White
http://www.pressconnects.com/article/20140430/SPORTS/304300049/Jon-Bones-Jones-far-away-from-superfight-says-Dana-White?nclick_check=1

“The other thing is, Jon Jones is 26 years old. As he continues to get older, he will have a harder and harder time making 205 (pounds), which would eventually probably force him up to heavyweight..”

[VenoM_Unleashed]

Ang kulet din ng open hand technique ni jones, tinatakpan nya yung face ni glover 

UFC champ Jon Jones mocks fans, embarrasses self
https://ph.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mma-cagewriter/ufc-champ-jon-jones-mocks-fans--embarrasses-self-190901258.html

[ziggy zuggy]

Jon Jones Targets Permanent Move to Heavyweight and Super Fight with Cain Velasquez
Posted on November 27, 2013 by Erik Fontanez
http://www.mmaweekly.com/jon-jones-targets-permanent-move-to-heavyweight-and-super-fight-with-cain-velasquez

PR

lol goodluck fighting against Velasquez, Dos Santos, Big Foot
Jones: +15/20cm reach, -50lbs

He can still keep shedding to 205 till late 20s/early 30s ... top athletes experience a severe decline in that ability in their mid to late 30s

the real concern re: age is his ability to gain muscle mass in as short time
even if we were severely optimistic about it, and put him at +4lb lbm/month that still takes him out of the LHW scene for a year(gain lbm = can't fight/defend LHW; and in that transition period, he won't be fighting t3 HWs because he'd be too small)

but again, that +4lb lbm/month is SEVERELY OPTIMISTIC
that's the #of an unregulated bber while BULKING, and on various supps

a more realistic number for a competing athlete at the top aged mid20s would be 2.5lb lbm/month
at that rate he'll be ready in 1.5-2 years


despite all that, i'd like to see him go up to HW and fight bigfoot and hunt
I want to see how he handles a few taps from those behemoths who walk through quite a few hits
arlovski-jones would be a bore. I like arlovski more than I do jones, but I think arlovski would lose that one

[VenoM_Unleashed]

Daniel Cormier is a natural HW but went down to LHW, he is lined up to fight Bones, Cormier is the HW Grand Prix Champion of Strikeforce, he defeated Big Foot and Josh Barnett. Mas madali ata mag dagdag ng timbang kesa mag bawas ng timbang. Just like you, I'd like to see Bones try his skills at the HW division or MW Division, I'd like to see a "super fight", naudlot kasi 'yung GSP vs Silva o kaya yung Silva vs Jones dati.

[ziggy zuggy]

Daniel Cormier is a natural HW but went down to LHW, he is lined up to fight Bones, Cormier is the HW Grand Prix Champion of Strikeforce, he defeated Big Foot and Josh Barnett. Mas madali ata mag dagdag ng timbang kesa mag bawas ng timbang. Just like you, I'd like to see Bones try his skills at the HW division or MW Division, I'd like to see a "super fight", naudlot kasi 'yung GSP vs Silva o kaya yung Silva vs Jones dati.

cormier is closer to a lhw than a hw
he's just been fighting small all these years, kind of like velasquez, couture and hendo(uy, all wrestlers haha)
mas madali magtanggal ng weight(lbm at bf) kesa magdagdag ng lbm(but not bf); and for jones, he'll definitely look to add lbm and not just bf in order to be on a level playing field with hws

shedding off weight being very difficult is a common belief because of boxing; which doesnt always apply to mma or other sports where the duration of a competition is shorter than 20mins*1*; this is especially true for competitions/weight classes without an upper weight limit*2*(ie, old school tournaments, heavyweight divisions)

*1* shedding off weight for nonHW boxers is difficult because they're already at a low bf% even out of competition and training. nonHW Boxers are on average closer to 5% bf all through out the year(compeition, training, off) compared to other competition sports(you'll see more 15 bf% mma fighters than boxers); due to the nature of boxing; which requires a greater degree of endurance, stamina or cardio(10-12 rounders for 30-36 mins) compared to mma's 15-25mins

*2* hw guys dont have to worry about an upper weight limit; hence to gain an advantage they go for more muscle mass, regardless of bf. The enemy then is stamina; which they offset with fewer volume or actions/min. Their primary concern then is to gain as much muscle mass as they can without it being a severe hindrance

[VenoM_Unleashed]

^ Then Bones can also fight small in the HW division just like Cormier. I'm just trying to say, kung kaya ng ibang fighters mag transition from one weight division to another, kaya din siguro ni Bones. Hindi naman porket lamang sa timbang ang kalaban ibig sabihin llamado na sya sa laban.

[XanderCage]

kaya nya yan. brandon vera nga pabalik balik ng HW at LHW dati. pero mas maliit pa kay Jon Jones yun.

[ziggy zuggy]

^ Then Bones can also fight small in the HW division just like Cormier. I'm just trying to say, kung kaya ng ibang fighters mag transition from one weight division to another, kaya din siguro ni Bones. Hindi naman porket lamang sa timbang ang kalaban ibig sabihin llamado na sya sa laban.

yup that's true
but its not the smartest career decision given his goal of being an all time great.
What's great about jones is that he hungers for greatness.. that hunger fuels his training --leading to the various disciplines and knowledge(a recent example is jones-glover wherein jones demonstrated various TKD techniques) or the past 3-4 fights wherein he displayed various bait-counter techniques like silva and machida does(although not to the level that silva does  )



the reason jones picked out velasquez' name for the PR superfight was because velasquez is one of the smaller hws; and for the pedigree
scenario 1) superfight doesnt actually happen
scenario 2) superfight with velasquez happens: velasquez wins -- not a big loss to jones "cain is a great champ, losing to him isn't shameful" he retreats to lhw where he probably had to drop the title
scenario 2a) jones didnt have to drop his lhw title for the superfight -- continues to defend his lhw title against strong contenders ... great, no change except for a big 1 on his loss sheet...
scenario 2b) jones had to drop his lhw title, has to work his way back in 2 fights(he's now closer to his 30s, and in a few years he will consider going back up to hw again... leaving him with 3-5 title defenses before moving up again
scenario 3) superfight with velasquez happens: jones wins -- great, doesnt tarnish his record -- does he consider staying at HW?
scenario 3a) jones stays at HW and has to bulk even more to prepare himself against MUCH bigger guys; but the depth isnt quite the same as lhw division(despite ufc's mid 2000 scramble for more, bigger guys) succeeding wins against Heavies will be met with criticism(he's not as great of a champ, he only gets to fight a handful of truly great hws -- think dana's criticism of fedor, and mid 2000 ufc hw div)
scenario 3b) jones doesnt go for HW and is now in limbo between lhw and hw .. basically wasted 1-2 years preparing


based on jones' eq --what we see in the octagon(him trying to negate threats and trying to prove a point where his ego is at stake -- wrestling with sonnen, dirty boxing with glover) and his last social network blunders; the velasquez superfight comment was partly a kneejerk reaction to the "gustaffson won" support. He definitely has eyes on HW div but not in 2-4 years; but I think he let that one out TOO EARLY because of the gustaffson support and the fact that velasquez was still a champ at that time and was unable to respond(should it have been an official challenge that all 3 parties(fertitas-jones-velasquez agrees to). He probably wouldnt have said that if a much bigger guy was holding the belt, like say dos santos or silva or overeem

bottomline: jones definitely can fight at heavyweight
questionable: jones becoming dominant at hw just as he did in lhw and keeping his luster
once again: "its not the smartest career decision given his goal of being an all time great."


Xander: we all know why vera was competing at heavyweight before lol


edit: masyado mahaba post ko ginawa ko nalang spoiler yung probable scenario ng career ni jones

[ziggy zuggy]

I just read, Josh Barnett is back in the UFC
have you guys been watching him outside the octagon?
any "reports/rumors" of him still doing peds?

[VenoM_Unleashed]

^ Olats si Baby Face Assassin sa huling laban nya sa UFC kay Travis Browne. Nag shoot sya for a double leg takedown, while doing that, binagsakan sya ng series of elbows ni Browne, tulog si Barnett.

Ganda ng laban kahapon Matt Brown vs Erick Silva, pwedeng candidate for fight of the year, brutal. Na stretcher si Silva after the fight.

[ziggy zuggy]

oh, so lumalaban na pala siya sa ufc
i thought he was just 'about to return' I didnt get to see those fights

outside of ufc though, have you seen him? post ufc+pride, di ko na siya nakikita
in your opinion mukha ba kaya niya makipagsabayan sa mga mas bata at mabilis na hws? I saw him in the t5 on the hw standings


thanks for the info

[VenoM_Unleashed]

^ Barnett fought twice already in the UFC, the other fight was with Frank Mir which Barnett won via TKO. Some say illegal 'yung elbow ni Travis Browne kay Barnett sa huling laban nila sa UFC.

He was doing well in Strikforce, sya 'yung bet ko na manalo sa Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix kaso talo sya kay Cormier via UD.

If you still remember the  classic fight between Pedro Rizzo vs Barnett in the UFC, nagrakoon sila ng rematch sa Affliction Banned, nakabawi si Barnett, he knocked Rizzo cold.

I think Barnett can still compete in the HW division, I believe he is more effective when he utilize his wrestling skills, kaso parang gigil mag pa impress si Barnett sa UFC kaya more on striking 'yung ginagamit nya.

[ziggy zuggy]

^ Barnett fought twice already in the UFC, the other fight was with Frank Mir which Barnett won via TKO. Some say illegal 'yung elbow ni Travis Browne kay Barnett sa huling laban nila sa UFC.

He was doing well in Strikforce, sya 'yung bet ko na manalo sa Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix kaso talo sya kay Cormier via UD.

If you still remember the  classic fight between Pedro Rizzo vs Barnett in the UFC, nagrakoon sila ng rematch sa Affliction Banned, nakabawi si Barnett, he knocked Rizzo cold.

I think Barnett can still compete in the HW division, I believe he is more effective when he utilize his wrestling skills, kaso parang gigil mag pa impress si Barnett sa UFC kaya more on striking 'yung ginagamit nya.

nice, thanks for the summary dude