Post by: kojie on Feb 29, 2008 at 08:54 PM
Quote
"James Randi offered US$ 1 million to anyone who can prove that a pair of $7,250 Pear Anjou speaker cables is any better than ordinary (and also overpriced) Monster Cables. Pointing out the absurd review by audiophile Dave Clark, who called the cables 'danceable,' Randi called it 'hilarious and preposterous.' He added that if the cables could do what their makers claimed, 'they would be paranormal.'"
wow thats alot of money :D
Post by: Ctlim on Mar 02, 2008 at 10:32 AM
there are alot of good cables... most of which are way way overpriced.
Post by: pekspert on Mar 02, 2008 at 02:28 PM
Post by: jerix on Mar 03, 2008 at 09:02 AM
They may have some difference -- but that difference does not always suggest that what you hear from the expensive cable is the better one. Many listeners always conclude that the more expensive cable they have is better by heaven and earth because they want to justify that their purchase was not a waste of money.
Post by: fnvillafuerte on Mar 03, 2008 at 01:42 PM
Post by: -sniper- on Mar 03, 2008 at 03:08 PM
but i think it is a question of would it work better than the cheap, non-branded cables? not necessarily. although having expensive cables will be good for your ht's "resume/bio-data", personally, i see it as impractical. there could be a difference in sound quality but it is very much negligible. unless you are gifted with an extremely sensitive ear, you would hardly notice the difference. i use non-branded and inexpensive (more appropriate than saying it is cheap :)) cables and i have no complaints as regards the sound quality.
just my take on the topic...:)
Post by: Ctlim on Mar 03, 2008 at 03:35 PM
the bigger the gap the more audible the difference. but as you get to more expensive stuff... you just have to be more practical if you have budgets.
if open budget then the more impractical it is, the better it feels. hehehehe ;D
Post by: Superman on Mar 03, 2008 at 05:57 PM
Post by: MAtZTER on Mar 03, 2008 at 05:59 PM
Post by: kojie on Mar 03, 2008 at 11:01 PM
just my POV.
Post by: diy_master on Mar 05, 2008 at 12:20 AM
Post by: av_phile1 on Mar 05, 2008 at 02:55 AM
Post by: RU9 on Mar 05, 2008 at 08:00 AM
Audiophiles can't see difference
Post by: RU9 on Mar 05, 2008 at 08:17 AM
Speaker Wire
"Iconoclast: One who attacks established beliefs or institutions. And who created these institutions? And who established these beliefs in place of the truth?"
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire.htm#wiretable
Post by: esuante on Mar 05, 2008 at 08:40 AM
Thanks
Post by: ericag_ph on Mar 05, 2008 at 09:27 AM
MonsterCable vs.CoatHanger (http://digg.com/hardware/MonsterCable_vs_CoatHanger_Audiophiles_can_t_see_difference/)
Audiophiles can't see [hear] difference
Post by: av_phile1 on Mar 05, 2008 at 09:35 AM
MonsterCable vs.CoatHanger (http://digg.com/hardware/MonsterCable_vs_CoatHanger_Audiophiles_can_t_see_difference/)
Audiophiles can't see difference
On double blind testing, they can't. ;D
A reverse testing was done where the tester announced cable A is hardware variety while cable B is an exotic cable costing 100x. All the audiophiles in the test said cable B was better.....all the while the tester never changed cables using only the hardware variety. This test clearly established the psychological powers of suggestion of using expensive stuff. ;D
Post by: ATJr. on Mar 05, 2008 at 10:50 AM
I believe they work --- but they work just like ordinary cables.
They may have some difference -- but that difference does not always suggest that what you hear from the expensive cable is the better one. Many listeners always conclude that the more expensive cable they have is better by heaven and earth because they want to justify that their purchase was not a waste of money.
dito ako..... ;D
if you spend 5k on cables and use it on an amp that cost 5k, then that is the height of folly.. :'(....but, if you spend that much on an amp that costs say 5M, they i would say okey lang yan.... ;D
Post by: kojie on Mar 05, 2008 at 11:03 AM
MonsterCable vs.CoatHanger (http://digg.com/hardware/MonsterCable_vs_CoatHanger_Audiophiles_can_t_see_difference/)LMAO
Audiophiles can't see difference
But did you manage to check out the original post ?
Quote
For the record, my first stereo speakers (noise makers) were Bose 901's (back in the 60's when they were the rage). From there I went to ESS Heil airmotion transformer A-1's, then the mighty corner Klipshhorns with center Belle Klipshorn, next came Theater Jensen A-5, then moving on to DQ-10-A's, then to Electrovoice 10-B's, then Martin Logan SL-3's and now a custombuilt $50,000.00 speaker system designed and built by Dennis Dean, Ph.D., an acoustical/audio engineer who fortunetly happens to be my brother.
:o
Post by: ǝʞɐɾ ʎzzɐɾ on Mar 05, 2008 at 11:33 AM
Post by: threadlock on Mar 05, 2008 at 11:55 AM
Post by: ATJr. on Mar 06, 2008 at 09:20 AM
Sorry I do not believe in expensive cables. Generic cables of proper gauge is sufficient for me. :D
you are indeed very wise sir! ;D
Post by: esuante on Mar 06, 2008 at 06:33 PM
The answer is that sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't, and that when it does, it's a purely subjective question whether the improvement in sound or picture is really worth it. Because we've seen some rather odd products being sold and some rather strange claims being made, we feel it might help to take a quick, common-sense look at the cables in your a/v system and ask what they do and whether, and why, it matters.
This is where things turn subjective. Better cables will deliver cleaner signals throughout your a/v system; that's a fact, which can be objectively proven.
Post by: av_phile1 on Mar 06, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Post by: esuante on Mar 07, 2008 at 05:47 AM
http://www.acrolink.jp/english/products/6n_a2050_2.html
http://www.belden.com/07Markets/07_Entertainment.cfm
http://www.kimber.com/
This sites might help you and understand that expensive wires really works. You would be encountering products like Oxygen Free, StressFree Cables etc
Post by: reynold on Mar 07, 2008 at 02:56 PM
Be practical, why spend so much for a cable kung halos di mo rin naman maririnig ang pagkakaiba sa ordinary cables, or may marinig kamang improvement pero konti lang at di naman worth it sa ginastos mo, imo ;)
Post by: Brian_mico on Mar 07, 2008 at 05:45 PM
for me, only audiophiles with sharp ears nababagay ang mga mamahaling cables na yan, pero kung isa ka lang sa mga nagpapaka-audiophile tulad ko, hehe wag na lang :)
Be practical, why spend so much for a cable kung halos di mo rin naman maririnig ang pagkakaiba sa ordinary cables, or may marinig kamang improvement pero konti lang at di naman worth it sa ginastos mo, imo ;)
ang galeng galeng mo naman preng Reynold.. agree with you ;D ;D ;D
many true/serious audiophiles can't distinguish expensive vs generic cables thru blind test.... at kung meron mang difference malaki na ang 10% ...
kung marami kang molah.. cge bili lang yung pinakamahal ha.. ;D ;D ;D
Post by: synchro_01 on Mar 07, 2008 at 05:51 PM
Post by: reynold on Mar 07, 2008 at 07:46 PM
ang galeng galeng mo naman preng Reynold.. agree with you ;D ;D ;D
many true/serious audiophiles can't distinguish expensive vs generic cables thru blind test.... at kung meron mang difference malaki na ang 10% ...
kung marami kang molah.. cge bili lang yung pinakamahal ha.. ;D ;D ;D
Ganyan talaga ang reasoning ng mga salat sa salapi, hahaha ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Superman on Mar 07, 2008 at 10:02 PM
This is the Key!
I have used (and tried) both budget and expensive (meaning P10,000 and above)...some would work, some would not, what matters is SYSTEM MATCHING! I have tried using P50,000++ cables BUT does not match my system and those generics even sound better...
Post by: allan1836 on Mar 08, 2008 at 01:25 AM
Naturally, whenever the subject of premium cabling for home a/v systems comes up, the important question arises: does wire really matter?
The answer is that sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't, and that when it does, it's a purely subjective question whether the improvement in sound or picture is really worth it. Because we've seen some rather odd products being sold and some rather strange claims being made, we feel it might help to take a quick, common-sense look at the cables in your a/v system and ask what they do and whether, and why, it matters.
This is where things turn subjective. Better cables will deliver cleaner signals throughout your a/v system; that's a fact, which can be objectively proven.
You said it! "subjective " is the key word. I use a Diamond 9.1 worth 5.5T (pesos nga lang ;D) and speaker/ic wire and power cables about 2T (pesos uli!) I can also hear a lot of instrument details!!! Soundstaging is also awesome ( I can pick out the drummer, guitarist etc. also). But I don't get paranoid watching movies, though, I get thrilled with exciting scenes. :D
My point is whether you have a megabuck system and cables or an entry level system, the appreciation and enjoyment is within yourself. I tend to believe that when you believe or assume to believe that a thing works, then it really works!! It's not the price tag nor the technology that should be the factor (though a lot of audiophile snobs embrace this criteria) but one's satisfaction and contentment.
Probably, objectively, one can prove a certain cable is cleaner through sophisticated lab equipments but on actual usage on a average home with little acoustic treatment, It will be very hard to define or substantiate how clean is clean among cables. ;)
Just my opinion ...
Post by: Lancito on Mar 08, 2008 at 01:30 AM
Post by: allan1836 on Mar 08, 2008 at 01:56 AM
I'd buy an IWC if I had money pero if wala, a swatch would suffice. Both would still tell me the time.
Exactly my point. :) Though the IWC might give a more 3 dimensional time ! :D But I was intrigue by the "stressfree" cables, sana meron din stressfree wife !! ;D
Post by: Weng! on Mar 08, 2008 at 04:11 AM
I'd buy an IWC if I had money pero if wala, a swatch would suffice. Both would still tell me the time.
korek, and both are made in switzerland ;D
Post by: ATJr. on Mar 08, 2008 at 05:07 AM
Ganyan talaga ang reasoning ng mga salat sa salapi, hahaha ;D ;D ;D
oo nga, kung salat ka na nga sa pananalapi, tapos bibile kapa nyang cexotic cables, baka naman magutom ang pamilya mo....just go for the affordable ones....be practical ika nga....anyway you miss nothing in terms of performance.... ;D
Post by: esuante on Mar 08, 2008 at 10:36 AM
Post by: pabili on Mar 08, 2008 at 11:57 AM
http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf
http://www.acrolink.jp/english/products/6n_a2050_2.html
http://www.belden.com/07Markets/07_Entertainment.cfm
http://www.kimber.com/
This sites might help you and understand that expensive wires really works. You would be encountering products like Oxygen Free, StressFree Cables etc
Eh sir, yung ke belden medyo makatotohanan po - saka talagang matagal ng gumagawa ng kable yan sa mga telecomms applications.
Yung kay acrolink, ewan ko lang po. Kasi alam ko marami ng anomalya tungkol diyan sa mga 6N copper. Maganda ang sinabi kung talagang ginawa. Pero yung mga balita, binili lang sa mga cheap manufacturer saka lang tinatakan, at ibenta ng mahal. Pwede pa nga hong pagtalunan kung makakakuha ka ng 6N sa pabrika nila (mas mahirap pa yan kung wala naman silang pabrika talaga). Maganda sa papel - I mean sa papel, hindi sa wire.
Yung kay audioquest, tama naman sinabi niya don, yun lang medyo nasobrahan (ng todo po) - yung audio na tinutukoy nya don, sa high power broadcasting - hindi home audio. Parang pinalalabas niya don, parang broadcast size yung home audio power. Totoo po yung mga nakasulat doon, yun nga lang, di totoo sa home audio applications. Yung mga di naaral ang broadcast audio, yung yung napapaniwala at napapabili ng mga ito.
Yung kimber, medyo pinaghalong kuwento at katotohanan, pinaghalong broadcast at bahay - parang audioquest din sila. Parang nagpagupit po kayo ng buhok at may bonus na kwento sa mga nanggugupit.
Yung high current cable po - gauge size lang ang usapan diyan.
yung break-in po, baka burn-in po. wala pong ganyang bagay. burn-out ang alam ko - yung nasobrahan sa kuryente, natunaw kasama ng insulator.
Maganda ho yung suggestion ng isang naringgan ko dito, ginawa ko, effective.
once in a while, tanggalin nyo yung mga audio connections nyo (monthly), bombahan nyo ng WD40 ba yon (o HD40 o RD40 o LD40) saka nyo isaksak ulit - parang bumili na kayo ng high end wire nyan - stress free na rin si wire, kasi medyo tutuklabin nya yung mga oxidation sa mga contact ng wires which causes high resistance to your high current flow.
Post by: JojoD818 on Mar 08, 2008 at 12:24 PM
if you don't hear any difference then be very thankful... you don't have to spend so much to satisfy your ears.
and don't forget to respect the other guy's decision to get the expensive cable, whether he hears something or nothing is up to him. let him savor the moment and respect him by learning when to speak and when to shut up.
Post by: ǝʞɐɾ ʎzzɐɾ on Mar 08, 2008 at 12:31 PM
and don't forget to respect the other guy's decision to get the expensive cable, whether he hears something or nothing is up to him. let him savor the moment and respect him by learning when to speak and when to shut up.
i second sir jojod818...
Post by: av_phile1 on Mar 08, 2008 at 12:44 PM
if you see someone using expensive cables then be very quiet and listen... he may have heard something that made him get that expensive cable, then try so very hard to find out for yourself if you can hear it also.
if you don't hear any difference then be very thankful... you don't have to spend so much to satisfy your ears.
and don't forget to respect the other guy's decision to get the expensive cable, whether he hears something or nothing is up to him. let him savor the moment and respect him by learning when to speak and when to shut up.
Yup, that should be the most prudent thing to do as it's part of social etiquette.
But this thread asks for your belief. And I suppose one has to substantiate his/her belief when you aver to it on a forum like this. And the real risk there is that a thread like this can develop into attacking each other's beliefs. ;D And we all know that in this hobby, cables can be such a contentious subject. We've had so many cable wars in the past. Maybe this one will yet become cable wars 2008. ;D
Post by: XXXyzledge on Mar 08, 2008 at 02:13 PM
if you see someone using expensive cables then be very quiet and listen... he may have heard something that made him get that expensive cable, then try so very hard to find out for yourself if you can hear it also.
if you don't hear any difference then be very thankful... you don't have to spend so much to satisfy your ears.
and don't forget to respect the other guy's decision to get the expensive cable, whether he hears something or nothing is up to him. let him savor the moment and respect him by learning when to speak and when to shut up.
+1 for sir Jojo!!!
for me, kanya-kanyang trip yan.....
walang apakan ng trip! ;D
seriously, imho, synergy is also a factor....
synergy with ur other gears that is...
if u have class A system (amps cdp etc)
would u dare use ordinary wires on it?
;D
Post by: streetsmart on Mar 09, 2008 at 08:01 AM
Maganda ho yung suggestion ng isang naringgan ko dito, ginawa ko, effective.
once in a while, tanggalin nyo yung mga audio connections nyo (monthly), bombahan nyo ng WD40 ba yon (o HD40 o RD40 o LD40) saka nyo isaksak ulit - parang bumili na kayo ng high end wire nyan - stress free na rin si wire, kasi medyo tutuklabin nya yung mga oxidation sa mga contact ng wires which causes high resistance to your high current flow.
You should use a "Contact Cleaner" like "Electra," not just WD40.
Aside from minimizing corrosion, you also make sure that your connections are tight. Kasi with all the vibration + whatever, many connections tend to loosen over time. Masama tunog kasi d nga tight.
In my experience, if you do this regularly, you get no cable problems. I've been doing this more than 10 years with my system and I have never had a cable problem. *Knock on wood.* ;D
Post by: ATJr. on Mar 09, 2008 at 09:06 AM
Quote
Maybe this one will yet become cable wars 2008.
hindi naman siguro, kasi mukhang natuto na mga tao, they are singing quite a different tune...they are becoming more practical these days....which is good.... ;D
this is the beauty of open disscusions, you can see the best of both worlds, without having to spend so much... ;D
and to those who are able to save money because they refrained from buying those exotic cables, bili naman kayo ng dvd dito.... ;D
Post by: allan1836 on Mar 09, 2008 at 02:29 PM
hindi naman siguro, kasi mukhang natuto na mga tao, they are singing quite a different tune...they are becoming more practical these days....which is good.... ;D
this is the beauty of open disscusions, you can see the best of both worlds, without having to spend so much... ;D
and to those who are able to save money because they refrained from buying those exotic cables, bili naman kayo ng dvd dito.... ;D
Tama kayo sir, the best and noticeable upgrade to a system is a high quality software, whether, for audio or video. :)
Post by: audiojunkie on Mar 09, 2008 at 04:58 PM
Post by: pabili on Mar 10, 2008 at 11:23 AM
hindi naman siguro, kasi mukhang natuto na mga tao, they are singing quite a different tune...they are becoming more practical these days....which is good.... ;D
this is the beauty of open disscusions, you can see the best of both worlds, without having to spend so much... ;D
and to those who are able to save money because they refrained from buying those exotic cables, bili naman kayo ng dvd dito.... ;D
Medyo nahahalata na rin po pala ninyo! Medyo maganda rin naman paminsan minsan, itsa challenge ang mga paniniwalang 'yan - for their benefits din naman yan.
Post by: jerix on Mar 10, 2008 at 11:44 AM
Post by: ATJr. on Mar 10, 2008 at 03:45 PM
Medyo nahahalata na rin po pala ninyo! Medyo maganda rin naman paminsan minsan, itsa challenge ang mga paniniwalang 'yan - for their benefits din naman yan.
nowadays, they call it "synergy", i can live with that, hindi na siguro mauulit yung time na kinumog si "joffkevsky"........ ;D ;D ;D
Post by: kojie on Mar 11, 2008 at 12:00 AM
Just my observation and my .02 cents. :)
Post by: fnvillafuerte on Mar 11, 2008 at 12:00 PM
IMO, kung may difference talaga with really expensive cables then siguro they would have shown sound graphs with comparison with the lows, mids and high of a good quality cable made by belden compared monster cables. Medyo mahirap lang kse sa topic na ito is that walang real scientific proof that everyone can backup. Manufacturers can prove the difference in build quality but how about the sonic differences? Unlike sa other technologies which show the difference between different brands. For example Computer Video cards which they can compare with frame rate test of various games or a simple 3dMark. With Memory modules they test the bandwidth with synthetic benchmarks.... etc
Just my observation and my .02 cents. :)
True. Kaya nga ako, I buy expenseve (but not exceeding 1Kpesos) cables not for better sound but for durability, tightness of connection and good looks. Compared kasi generic na cables (P35-P100) vs cables costing P350-P1,000, malayong mas matibay at mahigpit kumapit yung mas mahal kasi makapal at quality materials ang ginamit. Saka ang copper na ginamit sa mas mahal na cables ay mas puro at OFC pa kaya iwas-corrosion. Isa pa, ang ganda ng harap ng gears natin, pag sinilip sa likod, maganda ring tingnan kung pulido ang mga interconnects na ginamit.
Post by: kojie on Mar 11, 2008 at 01:38 PM
True. Kaya nga ako, I buy expenseve (but not exceeding 1Kpesos) cables not for better sound but for durability, tightness of connection and good looks. Compared kasi generic na cables (P35-P100) vs cables costing P350-P1,000, malayong mas matibay at mahigpit kumapit yung mas mahal kasi makapal at quality materials ang ginamit. Saka ang copper na ginamit sa mas mahal na cables ay mas puro at OFC pa kaya iwas-corrosion. Isa pa, ang ganda ng harap ng gears natin, pag sinilip sa likod, maganda ring tingnan kung pulido ang mga interconnects na ginamit.
Yep ako rin i didn't buy the cheapest ones bec. i wanted one with good build quality and yung nakikita ko na mukhang matibay, pero yung hindi very expensive. I also don't agree with speaker wire burn-in, unless somebody can show me that there is lesser resistance when cables are used for a couple of weeks. :D
Post by: kojie on Mar 11, 2008 at 01:50 PM
In this case monster would be the cheaper one(~$149 per 10 feet). hehehe
Post by: ycire on Mar 12, 2008 at 08:02 AM
Post by: ycire on Mar 12, 2008 at 09:53 AM
Post by: newbie pa rin on Mar 12, 2008 at 10:44 AM
rule of thumb is alot certain percentage of the whole cost.
Say heres the cost of your gears
Fronts - 35K
Center - 20K
surrounds - 20K
Screen - 40K
Player - 20K
Poweramp - 25K
Receiver - 30K
Budget for interconnects and cables - 7.5K or 5% of the whole cost
Does expensive cable work?
Do you mean if its cheap I wont hear any sound since its cheap it will not work.
or do you mean expensive cable sounds better than cheap ones.
Better sound is subjective.
What sounds better for you might not sound better for me.
Or we might agree that it does sounds better from our point of view.
Unless we have a base value to start with where we can see if the value increases or decreases by changing the cables then thats the only time we can conclude that using expensive cables we see an increase in the base value.
Given that an increase in base value means a better sound.
For me who don't have a golden ear doon ako sa afford ko.
I can see the difference in sound characteristics in using a coax and an optic cable.
The problem is I don't know which one I like.
Same issue might arise if I change into an expensive cable.
Others uses expense as their base value so the more expensive the higher the increase in the value so they can conclude its better sounding.
Though sound is subjective we can narrow it a bit if we take into consideration the following:
R&D put into it
Each and every materials put into it
Build and make up
Technology
...you might want to add some more
Post by: ycire on Mar 12, 2008 at 11:25 AM
it sounds fantastic. The clarity, dynamics, and sense of space you achieve from these cables is nothing short of astounding. I always want to use the best equipment possible and this cable
was the obvious choice.”
Post by: ycire on Mar 12, 2008 at 12:18 PM
frequency balance and other qualities of his/her system. Active
equalizers/tone controls are just not transparent-sounding enough
for many listeners to be considered as part of a high-quality system.
What is left to balance the response and sound of the system
in the audiophile’s listening room is choice of components, especially
cables, which are less expensive than components, and so
are easier to switch when you need a change. Cables interact with
components to at least some degree, so their sound is always context-
sensitive, which is why most outlets allow you to audition
them with your own equipment.
For this review I first listened to a selection of high-end cables
from the US company Kimber and the Supra company out of
Sweden. Both are well-established, reputable audio companies. A
comparative study lets you test many different qualities in different
models, and also allows the ear to hone in on the exact characteristic
sound of individual favorites.
Post by: accastil on Mar 12, 2008 at 12:28 PM
imo, expensive cables could have an equivalent in the "not-so-expensive" class. its just a lot of work trying to find the proper synergy from the many options.
Post by: MAtZTER on Mar 12, 2008 at 01:07 PM
*I sold a subwoofer because the interconnects I was using was not matched. I changed it to another & it sounded great but I was already committed to selling it. :'(
*Multi awarded QED interconnects, didnt match my system, doesnt mean its bad. Just didnt match my system according to my taste.
*I switched my IXOS braided cable that used to be connected to my LF (via bi-amp), connected it to the HF instead. Frequent visitor came to demo that day and was frowning the whole demo time, he later commented something was wrong with my system. Thats when I revealed that I switched the wires before he came. The cable did not match when used at the HF as I suspected.
Again:
S-Y-N-E-R-G-Y
This is the Key!
peace! everything above is in the subjective realm.
Post by: kojie on Mar 12, 2008 at 02:17 PM
I wonder why expensive cable manufacturers never show sound graphs of various tests they do to compare with other cables? If anybody has a link showing a sound graph of any tests they made please post it maybe it will give us more info regarding our discussion.
Post by: MAtZTER on Mar 12, 2008 at 02:49 PM
A more suitable thing to do is to do a double bind test in the audiophile's native turf, with his gear, his software, his... etc etc. Bring your Armani coat hanger and swap it with his exotic wire (5 times is enough IMO, more than that is deliberate confusing ). Get about 20 hardcore audiophiles and go to their setups to do this. (Dont forget JR of Listening in style, I heard his ears are legendary).
It may be more work, but I believe the results will be more relevant. Ever care to wonder why nobody among those internet guys trying to disprove cables has ever done this? Maybe they already know the result? ;)
Post by: aHobbit on Mar 12, 2008 at 02:55 PM
Take for example the use of 3 dimensional sound. Based on HK founders, stereo is never 3 dimensional and will never be. But we can meet people using this vague quantification is so many threads like this one. I can only conclude they have their own set of words different in meaning than what it stands for.
Further, the use of clarity, dynamics and sense of space is more often used to describe not the quantity of an item (how clear is clear, or how dynamic is dynamic or how spacious is spacious) but the subjective preference of the listener. This only tend to confuse the whole thing, equating a quantifiable BETTER into something vague referenced to a person's understanding of his terms.
This results to those unnecessary debates ...
there is no such thing as OFC ... but OFC cable is rated based on its copper content (relative to the whole, that includes oxygen) ... and typically, decent wires (the typical brand not those overpriced hype one) has almost 99.9 competing with those questionable multiple 9s ... add to this is the amount of R&D put into drawing copper wires - it is just amazing such simple process was described in a complicated way just to zqueeze from buyers sky-rocketing commercial gain.
Post by: aHobbit on Mar 12, 2008 at 03:14 PM
But many commercial outfit just blew things out of proportion by making a play of various adjectives depicting the performance of a cable ... and cable effect is there not just because of the cable itself, but because how a certain amp was designed as well, thats why some high end cable does not work with high end, being in the same space of cost - if this is what is being refered to as taking a certain % of gear cost for your cable expenses (to me, this is just a blind suggestion - far from being an informed audiophile).
So you have high end connector (wow), high end insulator (wow), high end geometry (wow) and other things. But of course, it is also prudent and wise to inspect the cheap things you are buying (it may be more expensive in the long run), the way you have to scrutinize the high end cable you are buying (typically a stamped local made so-many-times-cheaper in its original stamp!)
Lastly, that (audio cable) belief system will never give you the best of audio reproduction, simply because quality of audio reproduction is not based on our belief system.
Of course, best quality audio reproduction, being an art in itself, can also be a frame of mind - subjective experience - audio in our own world of imagination - and who dares contest anybody that his is the best, and his belief is true, and his opinion is correct. But caution when you try to stamp science to your own belief system. This is where those nasty debates and absurd situation comes in!
Yes, the expensive cable really works - but how? ... is everybody's guess.
Post by: kojie on Mar 12, 2008 at 03:23 PM
That would be good. :D
The goal will be if the testers can differentiate cables being used with each test from one another and not which sounds better since that area is subjective.
Post by: bumblebee on Mar 12, 2008 at 03:37 PM
Post by: kojie on Mar 12, 2008 at 04:49 PM
Just get a device that measures resistance, inductance and capacitance and use it on the cable. Cables with the same characteristics should perform (not sound because we can't measure that as it is subjective) the same.
Actually sound can be measured. What is subjective is what is a better sound. But sound itself can be measured and can be graphed. :)
Post by: bumblebee on Mar 12, 2008 at 05:24 PM
Post by: threadlock on Mar 12, 2008 at 06:04 PM
Expensive cables + no room treatment
-versus-
Generic cables(proper gauge) + proper room treatment
What I mean is that instead of pouring money on expensive cables why not spend it on room treatments. I believe the room plays a bigger role than those expensive cables.
Post by: Ctlim on Mar 12, 2008 at 10:58 PM
I believe in well constructed cables at a reasonable cost. but cables that cost more than amps or speakers are crazy. ;D
Post by: av_phile1 on Mar 13, 2008 at 01:31 AM
What I mean is that instead of pouring money on expensive cables why not spend it on room treatments. I believe the room plays a bigger role than those expensive cables.
I agree with that. The room accounts for more than 50% of what goes to your ears. Every pundit in other AV forums are one in saying "you hear the sound of the room." And every room sounds differently even with the same set-up. And the most telling observation is that even the most high end set-up can sound crappy in an untreated room. While a mass-fi set-up can sound gorgeous in one. Regardless of what cable you use. I am reminded of what one poster in Audioholics said that proof of this is evident when you go to a BOSE showroom. You can never find a piece of overpriced garbage sound so gorgeous as the accoustimas. That's because of the sonically engineered accoustics of their showrooms. ;D Little to do with the hardware. Much less cables.
Post by: ATJr. on Mar 13, 2008 at 10:51 AM
i would say the program materials we use are about 50% the rest is hardware..... ;D
Post by: MAtZTER on Mar 13, 2008 at 12:00 PM
let us also never lose sight of the software we are using, as no amount of costly cable, room treatment, nor expensive gears can do to a poorly recorded music... ;D
i would say the program materials we use are about 50% the rest is hardware..... ;D
I agree. I have been on a CD buying spree lately (pero sale). And indeed there are undeniable differences in recording from the ordinary P100 peso sale CD's and the Narada, Chesky, Verve, Telarc, Premium, etc. CD's. The more revealing your equipment is, the more you will hear the difference between the CD's.
Also, I never consider cables as a major miracle worker in the hobby as compared to your gears & room acoustics. The degree of comparison is very far. But its a valid thing to point out.
I am currently setting up a HT for an uncle in a live unacoutically treated room (acoustics to follow later) . I cant believe what his son (my cuz) said to me a few days ago. He says he feels that BOSE sounded better! LMAO.
Post by: ATJr. on Mar 13, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Quote
I agree.
hay...sa wakas.... ;D
Quote
He says he feels that BOSE sounded better! LMAO.
this is becuase BOSE sells a complete system......just plug it in and use it.... ;D
Post by: jerix on Mar 13, 2008 at 01:00 PM
I am currently setting up a HT for an uncle in a live unacoutically treated room (acoustics to follow later) . I cant believe what his son (my cuz) said to me a few days ago. He says he feels that BOSE sounded better! LMAO.
Bro investigate your cousin -- i know he was browsing on the BOSE website ;D
Try to experiment too -- introduce him here in pinoy and you will find out the 360 degrees change after a week ;D
Post by: oweidah on Mar 13, 2008 at 01:53 PM
o.t.
di kaya mag-detour sa BOSE itong thread? ::)
Post by: audiojunkie on Mar 13, 2008 at 08:57 PM
lets' go BOSE!!!
o.t.
di kaya mag-detour sa BOSE itong thread? ::)
muntik na nga akong mag-post ng comment sa B**e....
In my another view... expensive cables not always work well with even expensive gears...
Post by: ATJr. on Mar 14, 2008 at 05:00 AM
lets' go BOSE!!!
o.t.
di kaya mag-detour sa BOSE itong thread? ::)
sa totoo lang i have the same view with BOSE as with megabuck cables.... ;D
Post by: aHobbit on Mar 14, 2008 at 12:30 PM
Quote
let us also never lose sight of the software we are using, as no amount of costly cable, room treatment, nor expensive gears can do to a poorly recorded music... ;D
i would say the program materials we use are about 50% the rest is hardware..... ;D
In fact much of those items that contribute so little (almost negligible) to the sound are those that have been magnified grossly by some section of the hobbyist - cable, IC, amp, players. Of course, these items are the heart of music reproduction. Decent items from reputable manufacturers will provide you a very low distortion factor.
But the body of music reproduction - the one that each one of us hears, are affected by at least 3 big contributor to the distortion factors
(1) Your recorded materials - depending on its sources can introduce the first whopping distortion that problems caused by your gears+cable pale so much in comparison
(2) your chosen speakers with its unique characteristics that gets into the way of your gears can introduce another massive distortion that your gear+cable-distortion seems to be nothing
(3) your listening area (speaker positioning) - which serve as a baffle itself finally adding insult to injury to the reproduced music.
And whether one believe or not about those cables' claims (including those amp and player claims) does not matter at all - since belief system will not make good audio reproduction in the real world. To enjoy good sound reproduction, after buying decent equipment, give attendance to the real issue than spending so much for items that offers so little (if not none) benefits.
One said our world is quite different now ... all items now are being described using techno terms ... and only technically-inclined people can really interpret what those really means in the world ... and I couldn't agree more. Have you experience being asked by someone to buy digital cameras, flat TVs, movie players, PC, celfon, etc etc?
You will have to do a lot of convincing that so much specs does not necessarily translates into something you can use in the real world! and paying for those specs is basically a waste of money.
I hope no one will end using copper tubing (used in refrigeration as their speaker cable) just because it may support the theory of skin effect!
Post by: aHobbit on Mar 14, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Quote
this is becuase BOSE sells a complete system......just plug it in and use it.... ;D
Ever wonder why BOSE produce good sound in their shops - they attended to the issues giving so much distortion to music listening
(1) the room was treated acoustically, perhaps acoustic engineer is a standard staff attending to the preparation of a BOSE store
(2) since they typically have standard amps (siguro mga chip amps), and players - it is almost of no difference with other gears in distortion levels at rated power. So, they have to carefully choose a good recorded material that will be highlighting the capability of their speakers, no matter how dimunitive they are - plus the optimum positioning of woofer
(3) their speakers is not astounding - but they put marketing hype there - almost 'hidden' - which works.
If you are the buyer that just play it by your senses because your dizzy whenever you read those specs - you will buy. It is almost a monolithic setup where the speaker cable interconnection being the only thing that will give you a challenge.
Post by: audiojunkie on Mar 17, 2008 at 01:05 PM
Ever wonder why BOSE produce good sound in their shops - they attended to the issues giving so much distortion to music listening
(1) the room was treated acoustically, perhaps acoustic engineer is a standard staff attending to the preparation of a BOSE store
O.T.
I had chat with a salesman of the bose dealer in my area. He mentioned that all BOse Demo Rooms are built by Bose with their specs and all paid by them. As a dealer you will not spend even a single cent for it..... ::) ::) :o
but cables are separate items.... ;D
Post by: JojoD818 on Mar 17, 2008 at 07:15 PM
Post by: audiojunkie on Mar 17, 2008 at 08:28 PM
wow, so what happens when you bring it home?
The expensive cables or overprice B*** system? ;D ;D
Post by: iceman90a on Mar 17, 2008 at 09:48 PM
nowadays, they call it "synergy", i can live with that, hindi na siguro mauulit yung time na kinumog si "joffkevsky"........ ;D ;D ;D
blast from the past - although hindi naman kinuyog si "jof" dahil sa opinion nya, kundi dahil magaspang sya magsabi ng opinion nya
Post by: Weng! on Mar 18, 2008 at 04:34 AM
wow, so what happens when you bring it home?
not the same sound quality na as in the store. but you can hire bose engrs to treat your room ;D ;D maganda porma pa (WAF).
ilang expensive cables kaya ang equivalent cost pagpa treat ng room to bose specs?
Post by: jerix on Mar 18, 2008 at 08:08 AM
Post by: JojoD818 on Mar 18, 2008 at 10:18 AM
The expensive cables or overprice B*** system? ;D ;D
I was referring to BOSE... ;D ;D ;D
not the same sound quality na as in the store. but you can hire bose engrs to treat your room ;D ;D maganda porma pa (WAF).
ilang expensive cables kaya ang equivalent cost pagpa treat ng room to bose specs?
and then what? turn your HT room into a BOSE demo room? ohlala...
Post by: MAtZTER on Mar 18, 2008 at 11:46 AM
kundi dahil magaspang sya magsabi ng opinion nya
Thus what I have been campaigning for. Everything under the sun can be discussed, as long as its done properly and in a manner befitting the education we attained.
We are pinoydvd.com, not pinoyjeepneydriver.com or pinoytoda.com. :D
Everyone deserves respect, maybe except those who do not believe in respecting others. :D
Thankfully this thread has been a fine example of respect for one another.
Cheers everyone :)
Post by: vwbeetle on Mar 18, 2008 at 03:49 PM
this is not something new though. the "aristocrati" have long looked down upon the "masses" and associated civility with education (and money), implying that the more education (money) you have, the more good mannered you are. but i tend to disagree.
in my experience, those of "less" education (money) are in fact more civil and good-natured than those who have "more education". they might not know which spoon or fork to use for a certain dish but they are not necessarily rude because they eat with their hands. in fact i find that those with "more education" (and money) are more arrogant and prone to engaging in "pataasan ng ihi"-- the reason why they often smell so bad.
anyway, back to regular programming.
Post by: audiojunkie on Mar 18, 2008 at 04:02 PM
Post by: Ctlim on Mar 18, 2008 at 05:18 PM
Post by: @nk71 on Mar 18, 2008 at 08:20 PM
for me I'll just go for an ordinary wire and invest my money on a powerful amp, thus no need for an expensive wire
Post by: av_phile1 on Mar 18, 2008 at 10:32 PM
and then what? turn your HT room into a BOSE demo room? ohlala...
Then you can demand sales commissions for every BOSE sold from your home. ;D
Post by: JojoD818 on Mar 18, 2008 at 10:49 PM
Then you can demand sales commissions for every BOSE sold from your home. ;D
You have an excellent point there... but that should mean I must think like those people from BOSE... ;D ;D ;D
Post by: ATJr. on Mar 19, 2008 at 05:09 AM
the only thing that bothered me was that they had to go on an agressive marketing and advertising, that is why the higher selling price compared to unit costs....oh well, AMIR BOSE did his homework very well...
that is why i can understand it when some people will go at any lenght to promote/sell a product, that is business..... ;D ;D ;D
ain't nothing wrong with that eh?...... ; ;) :D ;D
i am for the masses, those many who do not have lots and lots of moolah but would like to enjoy good sounds.....i hope they do not develop this idea that they have to spend a lot to get there... ;D
Post by: ATJr. on Mar 19, 2008 at 05:19 AM
OT:-- uhm, i understand what you meant, but while espousing open-mindedness, in the same breath you were making sweeping generalizations and denigrating jeepney drivers/tricycle drivers, implying that ALL of them are of less education than you (us), and worse implying that they are necessarily rude and impolite just because they are not as "educated".
this is not something new though. the "aristocrati" have long looked down upon the "masses" and associated civility with education (and money), implying that the more education (money) you have, the more good mannered you are. but i tend to disagree.
in my experience, those of "less" education (money) are in fact more civil and good-natured than those who have "more education". they might not know which spoon or fork to use for a certain dish but they are not necessarily rude because they eat with their hands. in fact i find that those with "more education" (and money) are more arrogant and prone to engaging in "pataasan ng ihi"-- the reason why they often smell so bad.
anyway, back to regular programming.
if civility meant turning a blind eye on unpalatable postings, then i would rather be rude.......promise..... ;D :D ;)
Post by: av_phile1 on Mar 19, 2008 at 08:53 AM
the only thing that bothered me was that they had to go on an agressive marketing and advertising, that is why the higher selling price compared to unit costs....oh well, AMIR BOSE did his homework very well...
Yup, Dr. Amar Bose did his homework alright. That's why he became a Dr. ;D Don't squarely address audiophile fundamentals because they are expensive. So, address other considerations, like the wife factor; never allow your product to be compared with others on the sales floor; give as little information on the brochure, the market won't know the difference; capitalize on the sound of a well engineered accoustics in your demo room because as a Dr., he knows what the ears get, that's cheaper in the long run; appeal to the market's sense of awe with a price tag higher than the rest. ;D
Mediocrity requires aggressive marketing. But a great product always sells on its own with just a little advertising. ;D
Post by: aHobbit on Mar 19, 2008 at 06:26 PM
if civility meant turning a blind eye on unpalatable postings, then i would rather be rude.......promise..... ;D :D ;)
Questioning a belief system will always be that, questioning. However, to some, questioning is considered an attack - even to a personal level. And as I have explained in other threads, some people, no matter how finesse you issue your questions, will still be viewed just the same, an attack.
To some people, keeping mum on something that is questionable, is a sign of respect.
I just don't know where education is coming in here if we maintain these attitudes.
If we expect to learn, be ready to be validated ... and revalidated ...
it always takes two to tango ... one can not blame just one party ... if there is an argument, then there is at least 2 parties involved - 2 parties to blame. Short of saying probably there are 2 magaspang parties, or 2 uneducated debaters, or 2 richie educated pasaways!
as with BOSE, even if you change your IC and speaker cable in their listening room, will not make magic! ... simply because they attended to the real issues which affect much of the listening. But who says their price is right or wrong - it is always relative (subjective), so does "high end audiophilia" gears.
Post by: aHobbit on Mar 19, 2008 at 06:42 PM
wow, so what happens when you bring it home?
The same thing when you bring home a "high end" expensive cables! ;D
Yes lalo na kapag mahabang wires ang requirement mo...pero kung 2-3mtrs lang u need a DIGITAL ear to distinguish it ;D...
for me I'll just go for an ordinary wire and invest my money on a powerful amp, thus no need for an expensive wire
... or invest in a more efficient speaker system ... simple solution to a simple problem - the right resources in the right place ... way to go bro!
Quote
Mediocrity requires aggressive marketing. But a great product always sells on its own with just a little advertising. ;D
In Memoriam : VHS vs Betamax (RIP) / Windows vs OS/2 (RIP) / Lucky Mac, still alive struggling with Win! ;D
Suddenly got a weird feeling BOSE will survive the high end market while the rest goes RIP little by little! ;D ;D ;D
Post by: ATJr. on Mar 20, 2008 at 10:58 AM
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If we expect to learn, be ready to be validated ... and revalidated ...
Exatly my point also, i hope pinoydvd does not turn into a personality cult, wherein one person speak and others accept blindly with out questioning.....the lesson from the Jim Jhones mass suicide should be a lesson for ages....
personally i do not see anything beyond cables as the copper and plastic insulation they contain, be they the el-cheapo one or the really expensive ones...when you strip them open, you will only find copper and plastics....that is all there is...
but to those who really can hear differences with expensive cables, perhaps this could shed some light...http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aMDUAPg7IXDo&refer=home (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aMDUAPg7IXDo&refer=home) and this http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html?tag=newsmap (http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html?tag=newsmap)
expensive things are really a joy to have..... ;D
Post by: ATJr. on Mar 20, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Quote
Suddenly got a weird feeling BOSE will survive the high end market while the rest goes RIP little by little!
i have no doubts too.... ;D
Post by: av_phile1 on Mar 20, 2008 at 11:23 AM
but to those who really can hear differences with expensive cables, perhaps this could shed some light...http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aMDUAPg7IXDo&refer=home (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aMDUAPg7IXDo&refer=home) and this http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html?tag=newsmap (http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html?tag=newsmap)
expensive things are really a joy to have..... ;D
Weird that they should have such a test at this time when I have known that all along right from my psychology 101 class in college. ;D The power of suggestion has been known by marketeers ever since - anything pricier is always perceived to be better.
That infamous reverse DBT cable test conducted years ago confirmed this. Just can't remember the site to refer it to. The tester announced that cable A used ordinary cable and cable B used an expensive cable brand. All the audiophile subjects said the sound coming from the expensive cable was better; when all the while the cables for A and B both used the same cheap hardware variety cable. When it was revealed to them, the subjects stormed the testing room in disgust because the test threw their cherished beliefs out the window. ;D
Never underestimate the power of suggestion. It's a favourte among marketeers to con the elitist market. One pundit at audioholics asserted that expensive cables are the biggest SCAM in the audiophile industry. There's just no governing regulatory agency over cables. And anyone is free to foist their "engineering" claims for cables that are totally irrelevant for the audio passband.
But as long as you have the money to burn, why not? It's always a joy to have the most expensive things surround you. And that's well known to marketeers. ;D
Post by: allan1836 on Mar 20, 2008 at 02:34 PM
I also wondered, why the audiophiles of the so called "golden years", have been contented without this pricy cables and accessories. The main focus then is the equipments and speakers and funny enough, most of them also experience the audio euphoria we, at present, try experience. But the main difference today is , we tend to be more complicated. We feel that only half of the success is attained without this "magical" cables and accessories. :-\ Hmmm .....
Post by: av_phile1 on Mar 20, 2008 at 03:45 PM
There was never a need for disposable razor blades but Gillette was able to create the demand for them and now you have 3-bladed and 4-bladed disposables that turn on the profit faucets to Gillette. And I might live long enough to see 10-bladed disposable razors. ;D
There was never a need for walkman radios and players but Sony successfully marketed the concept and now the MP3 players are just your technological evolution for them. And for most young people, they can't live without them. ;D
There was never a need for cellphones with cameras and video/audio capabilities but the demand for them now is such that virtually no one buys a cellphone these days without them.
And there was never a need for Havaianas for such lowly slippers and you now see them everywhere. My goodness, $20 for a pair of slippers? But I can understand, if you can have a high demand for $500 Bally and Bruno Magli shoes, why not slippers?
If slippers can be priced so expensively, why not cables? You have a large market looking for something new and cables have sprung up as a profitable industry on its own backed by so called new "breakthrough" researches on the behavior of cable properties to justify pricing their modified cables so high. I assure you there is nothing about cables that have not been understood by our great grandfathers but are only now being hyped to ridiculous levels to create a demand for exotic alambre.
The only cables I know that can really make dramatic differences in conduction are the nitrogen-cooled super conductors used in particle accelerators. See if you can have one for your sound system. ;D And you won't hear any argument from me about a "day-and-night" difference some people claim to hear with exotic cables. ;D
I don't think these cable scammers are allied with the high-end audiophile gears. But the marketing logic is there. If there's a demand for high end players, amps and speakers, why not have high end cables as well? Great. The only difference is that high end audiophile gears do have something superior in them to show for their ridiculous prices, such as a tank-like bullet-proof build you can find in Perraux and Bryston amps. Or a 20 year transferable warranty only Bryston offers. Or a turntable with a massive platter that depends on sheer inertia to silence out rumble noise that no mass turntable can offer.
But cables? I hate to say it but I tend to agree with audioholics that this is a SCAM in the audiophile industry. There is absolutely nothing in cables you can do to make it more transparent than just using pure 99.99% material, having uniform built throughout its length, getting the right gauge for the length one needs and making the proper terminations. Most of their claimed benefits from altering the geometry and reactive qualities of their cable apply only to frequencies outside human hearing. Anything you do to alter the reactive qualities of cables high enough to matter in the audio passband will just increase ruining the audio signals that go through it. And you pay top money for that? Now if you use nitrogen-cooled superconductors, that's a different story. ;D
But hey, if you can afford them, why not? I don't mind using havaianas. In fact I also have pabder and florsheim shoes. Like I said, there's always the joy of having expensive stuff around the house. ;D Now if only I can afford the new Rolls Royce Phantom even if I know its sybaritic luxury is not twice that of a new Camry or its technologies and materials no better than a BMW 7 series. But the heads turning and jaws dropping as you drive down the road on a Phantom would be priceless. ;D
Post by: Weng! on Mar 21, 2008 at 02:09 AM
Post by: av_phile1 on Mar 21, 2008 at 02:36 AM
Post by: Weng! on Mar 21, 2008 at 03:06 AM
Post by: av_phile1 on Mar 21, 2008 at 03:14 AM
Post by: allan1836 on Mar 31, 2008 at 03:18 PM
I have nothing against this pricey cable, it won't hurt to add pogi points to a system ;D But the main objective, which is to improve the overall sound of a set-up, is highly debatable. ;)
Post by: MAtZTER on Apr 01, 2008 at 02:55 PM
OT:-- uhm, i understand what you meant, but while espousing open-mindedness, in the same breath you were making sweeping generalizations and denigrating jeepney drivers/tricycle drivers, implying that ALL of them are of less education than you (us), and worse implying that they are necessarily rude and impolite just because they are not as "educated".
this is not something new though. the "aristocrati" have long looked down upon the "masses" and associated civility with education (and money), implying that the more education (money) you have, the more good mannered you are. but i tend to disagree.
in my experience, those of "less" education (money) are in fact more civil and good-natured than those who have "more education". they might not know which spoon or fork to use for a certain dish but they are not necessarily rude because they eat with their hands. in fact i find that those with "more education" (and money) are more arrogant and prone to engaging in "pataasan ng ihi"-- the reason why they often smell so bad.
anyway, back to regular programming.
Emma Mao, ikaw ba yan?
http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=64943.0
Or just some guy who watched too many FPJ & Sharon Cuneta movies? :D
Sweeping generalization? by who? you or me? If thats your interpretation then I apologize to the good jeepney & toda drivers. But the place where I work is THE worst case scenario for toda & jeep discipline. Its a warzone here and I dont apologize to the bad ones. Maybe because I drive a MASA car so they treat me that way ;).
Pissing contests never intend to hurt anyone, the only ones affected are the insecure. There are no "victims" there. Why dont you discuss about crab mentality? There is something inherently premeditated & evil (there are victims) about it that makes such perpetrators not just stink, they are despicable and puke inducing.
Let me point you to where you can echo your viewpoint at so many threads here:
Show me your... (all)
Whats your latest...(dvd, CD, HD) purchase (all)
What the latest addition to your system
HT gallery
etc.
I view all these threads for inspiration, not for feeling a lack of something and venting it out on another thread. I will get more positive Kharmic points feeling happy for these people and working hard to save up for my dream setup, instead of pulling others down. :)
Hehe back to regular programming. ;)
Post by: MAtZTER on Apr 01, 2008 at 03:17 PM
sir av_phile1, your assumptions are very true specially the part wherein, different cables just create different sound. Not necessarily better or worse or accurate but different. I might also assume that audiophiles tend to buy various cables in hoping to improve the sound of their set-up but in truth, are just so hard to be satisfied and contented (read: SARS in our language! ;D). They buy this cables to experience a new sound but not necessarily better I may say. It is similar to upgrading the electronics or speakers in a way, we tend to be bored with an old set-up even though its already very musical. :)
I have nothing against this pricey cable, it won't hurt to add pogi points to a system ;D But the main objective, which is to improve the overall sound of a set-up, is highly debatable. ;)
Here is a nice article from WS (from veteran audiophiles who have tried it themselves) :
http://wiredstate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18084&start=0
Very important things to note:
*Invest more on good quality speakers and amps, not IC's & speaker wires. What good is an IC or wire if your speakers arent revealing or your amp is underpowered?
*IC's & speaker wires are not necessarily better, just different. And expensive does not necessarily mean better.
It makes sense then to spend only the small percentage recommended by HT mags for cables, depending on how much you spent for your setup & how revealing it is. This way it is NOT EXPENSIVE relative to what you spent for your setup. So if you buy a revealing 150k speaker 120k amp and 90k CD player, whats an 8k IC to you?
The other opposite , w/c does not make sense, is to buy a not so revealing speaker/setup and invest on a big percentage on cables & IC's thinking it will compensate. This makes IC's expensive relative to the cost of the setup. And the effects might not even be there since the setup isnt revealing enough to make anybody hear a difference.
Makes sense? I think its the wrong approach that makes a cable expensive.
Post by: av_phile1 on Apr 03, 2008 at 08:02 PM
Post by: barrister on Apr 03, 2008 at 10:05 PM
Wala bang group buy? Invite nyo naman si Emma Mao.
Post by: frootloops on Apr 03, 2008 at 10:37 PM
Most expensive cable is the Transparent Opus MM: $30,750. http://www.aurant.com/signaturefeature.php
Wala bang group buy? Invite nyo naman si Emma Mao.
HAHAHAHA!!!! Nabaliw ako dito ah!>....reminiscing ka na sir barrister ah. ;D
Yung Transparent Opus parang antenna lang ng TV. ;D
Post by: A.Chua on May 06, 2008 at 01:14 AM
Post by: pekspert on May 06, 2008 at 01:31 AM
Most expensive cable is the Transparent Opus MM: $30,750. http://www.aurant.com/signaturefeature.php
Wala bang group buy? Invite nyo naman si Emma Mao
o nga naman group buy, baka mapababa natin yung price to $28,000 na alng with free shipping :D ;D
Post by: allan1836 on May 06, 2008 at 10:23 AM
HAHAHAHA!!!! Nabaliw ako dito ah!>....reminiscing ka na sir barrister ah. ;D
Yung Transparent Opus parang antenna lang ng TV. ;D
Baka matalo pa yan Transparent Opus ng Erni Barons Super Antenna!! :D
Post by: av_phile1 on May 10, 2008 at 09:13 AM
Most expensive cable is the Transparent Opus MM: $30,750. http://www.aurant.com/signaturefeature.php
Wala bang group buy? Invite nyo naman si Emma Mao.
Mag-contribute na lang mga members who believe in exotic cables. Then they can have one month each to enjoy a $30T cable from one contributing member to another on rotation. ;D
Post by: JojoD818 on May 16, 2008 at 11:23 PM
Mag-contribute na lang mga members who believe in exotic cables. Then they can have one month each to enjoy a $30T cable from one contributing member to another on rotation. ;D
depending on the contribution... I imagine the rotation is going to be a very long time to wait! ;D ;D ;D
Post by: alvinthx2 on Jun 03, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Just have g14 or bigger for your HT or Audio setup (kahit tube and turntable pa) Pero magandang tingnan ang mahal na cables. ;D
Post by: raptor on Jul 13, 2008 at 03:32 AM
Expensive cables really works!!! I bought a Martin Logan Speakers cost me about P500thou speakers only. and cable wires, power cables about 150thou. When you listen to a concert its like you are in the concert. You can hear lots of instruments in detailed!!!! Sound Staging (its like when you closed your eyes and listen to a music you would know where the drums, guitars, bass, vocals are coming) Sometimes it makes me paranoid when i watch movies i could hear a lot of sounds coming from my speakers.....Everytime its like your always on the scene its like almost reality...You will experience this at THE CHANNEL ONE....soon to open....... www.thechannelone.com
Thanks
For this price i cannot find a reason that the sound will be below excellent ... you can actually have the whole band perform live in your house for this price and sleep with the lady lead singer after the concert ;D ;D ;D
Post by: frootloops on Jul 13, 2008 at 09:53 AM
Post by: ǝʞɐɾ ʎzzɐɾ on Jul 13, 2008 at 10:08 AM
^ You maybe wont be needing a speaker for that cable, for its price...the cable might actually just sing!.
uuuuyyyyy laking tipid nito sa gears! hahahaha!
sorry OT di ko po napigilan! :D
Post by: ricochet315 on Aug 17, 2008 at 03:32 PM
In my pursuit for what I prefer to be sonically satisfying system, I decided to acquire the following:
1. Dynaudio Confidence C1 speakers.
2. Plinius 9200 amplifier.
3. Rega P3-24 (fitted with Rega EXACTcartridge) turntable.
4. Used XLO Ultra 6 speaker cables.
Now my buying a used XLO speaker cable doesn't in any manner show that I believe that cables are not as important than the rest. On the contrary, after substantial time spent auditioning cables, I can sense perceptible differences in their performances. However, it is equally important to cite the fact that expensive cables are almost observed to perform better because more often than not, they are auditioned using very high end gears. But it doesn't mean that expensive cables always sound better that their cheaper siblings.
Going back to my used XLO cable, the decision to buy this was borne out of a comparison test I did versus a 100T ++ Transparent speaker cable. Only the deeper bass delivery of the Transparent was better. Everything else like, soundstage, balance, clarity, etc. favored the XLO. Note that the XLO costs only 1/10th of the Transparent's hefty price tag, not to mention that I got a 5T discount for buying it used.
In conclusion, it is important to mention that speaker cables and interconnects play an important part of your system, and that yes they do sound differently. However, price is never the determinant of its excellence or lack of it.
With regards to power cable, this is an area that I remain unconvinced as to its importance to sound improvement versus what the manufacturers of your gears already provide when you buy them. My belief here is that they should know better. Again, as in several occasions, I could be wrong. ;)
Post by: barrister on Aug 18, 2008 at 12:07 AM
Most expensive cable is the Transparent Opus MM: $30,750.
Mura pa pala ang $30k...
Transparent Opus MM price update: 8 feet: $33,000!
(http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/09/transparent_opus_cables.jpg)
Transparent Opus Speaker Cables Bring You Audio Nirvana for $43,000 a Pair
gizmodo.com (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/transparent-opus-speaker-cables-bring-you-audio-nirvana-for-43000-a-pair-303825.php)
Yung Transparent Opus parang antenna lang ng TV. ;D
Malaki ang Transparent Opus sir...
(http://www.cepro.com/images/slideshow/bradjosh.jpg)
Post by: omeldoc on Aug 18, 2008 at 06:17 AM
Malaki ang Transparent Opus sir...
(http://www.cepro.com/images/slideshow/bradjosh.jpg)
whoa!!!! :o anong laman nun?
Post by: m0b1u5 on Aug 18, 2008 at 07:27 AM
may pang-adjust ng freqs para timplahin ang higs, mids and lows... ;D
on the side note, can't equalizers or tone controls achieve what these cables are trying to do? ::)
Post by: barrister on Aug 18, 2008 at 08:57 AM
whoa!!!! :o anong laman nun?
Maraming nagsasabi na filters daw ang laman. Walang sinasabi ang manufacturer.
The Transparent website describes it as a "network" but does not explain the design or how it works.
Post by: XXXyzledge on Aug 18, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Post by: John E. on Aug 18, 2008 at 05:22 PM
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 18, 2008 at 09:09 PM
may equalizer sa loob... ::)
may pang-adjust ng freqs para timplahin ang higs, mids and lows... ;D
on the side note, can't equalizers or tone controls achieve what these cables are trying to do? ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D
siguro mga 32 bands ang laman no'n!
It is unfortunate some people are still guided by belief system rather than facts! Who said expensive cable are tweak for high end system? They are tweak for high end buyers! ;D ;D because they are being sold by high end profiteers! ;D ;D ;D
I have the gut feel that big cable has digital amps thriving on voltage swings on amp output to alter freq response! nabubuksan pa yata yun para pihitin mo kung anong freq gusto mo i tweak. The bulk of the price goes to the technology that conceals the secret! ;D ;D ;D Tipong di kaya buksan - hinulmahan ng sangkatutak na bakal o plastic ;D ;D ;D
Atin atin lang ito ha ... malamang gawa ng dai ichi yung nasa loob niyan!!! ;D ;D ;D
Post by: praktikal on Aug 19, 2008 at 05:30 PM
Post by: Ctlim on Aug 19, 2008 at 06:27 PM
F*CK it if I can hear the difference or not. I'm buying all the BLING!!!!!
;D
Post by: blackd70s on Aug 19, 2008 at 06:37 PM
I envy the people who can buy that cable like they were buying a can of cola.
F*CK it if I can hear the difference or not. I'm buying all the BLING!!!!!
;D
hmmmm! me tooo! ;D
Post by: jetstar on Aug 20, 2008 at 02:14 AM
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/gunblue/IMG_8313reduced.jpg)
Just got these online:
Monster Cable M Series Subwoofer Cable M1000 6M w/ Y splitter - $34.99; Brand New but w/out box/Bulk Package; Retail: $200.00
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=1206
Monster Cable M1000CV-1M Silver Video Component Video Cable [1m/3.3ft] - $16.98; Brand New but w/out box/Bulk Package; Retail $125.00
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=202
Monster Cable ULT V1000 SV-8 THX Ultra 1000 S-Video Cable [for my laptop to HDTV] - $9.95; Brand New; Retail: $69.95
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=1717
Comprehensive COCTTXD13 XHD XD1 Digital Toslink Audio Cable - 3'; Brand New - $14.95 (B&H)
http://www.comprehensiveinc.com/store/p/5352-XHD-Digital-Toslink-Audio-Cable-3ft.aspx
When I compared the retail price with the price offered on Amazon, I said what the heck. I'll buy it and I did without thinking twice. The subwoofer cable by the way is d**ned heavy. Shipping these through the Army Post Office (APO) is another bonus. Di ako kailangan mag pay ng tax and ang mura ng freight through USPS. :) The only thing na hindi sale is yung Toslink cable from B&H. It's a high quality Toslink Cable.
Post by: barrister on Aug 20, 2008 at 01:18 PM
Bose AM is derided for being overpriced and of low quality.
In contrast, Monster Cables are bashed for being overpriced, but nobody is saying that Monster's quality is bad.
Now if you can get Monster Cables at good prices, then you have the best of both worlds.
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 20, 2008 at 02:07 PM
Quote
I believe it really works. I know Monster Cables are high quality cables but overpriced... but you just need to search. If you can buy these cables for less money, why not:
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/gunblue/IMG_8313reduced.jpg)
Just got these online:
Monster Cable M Series Subwoofer Cable M1000 6M w/ Y splitter - $34.99; Brand New but w/out box/Bulk Package; Retail: $200.00
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=1206
Monster Cable M1000CV-1M Silver Video Component Video Cable [1m/3.3ft] - $16.98; Brand New but w/out box/Bulk Package; Retail $125.00
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=202
Monster Cable ULT V1000 SV-8 THX Ultra 1000 S-Video Cable [for my laptop to HDTV] - $9.95; Brand New; Retail: $69.95
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=1717
Comprehensive COCTTXD13 XHD XD1 Digital Toslink Audio Cable - 3'; Brand New - $14.95 (B&H)
http://www.comprehensiveinc.com/store/p/5352-XHD-Digital-Toslink-Audio-Cable-3ft.aspx
Could be bogus imitation or direct from dai-ichi ;D ;D ;D
Envy is not my word for them ... ;D ;D ;D ...
In the absence of anything substantial ... the weight becomes a determinant of viability for most hobbyist - so you hear heavy amp, heavy speaker, heavy everything ;D ;D ;D
ah well, I feel like plunging into the lucrative business of audio and cable! :D
Post by: ricky on Aug 20, 2008 at 02:17 PM
Post by: hi-fi heroes on Aug 20, 2008 at 03:18 PM
YES. been doing a lot of experimenting and there are noticeable sonic differences which may or may not be better depending on the listener...
BUT here's the clincher for me, since most people i know have "some" limit or budget, (may it be P50T or P5T), the rule of thumb for me is to audition the cables that are in my price range and decide from there.
also, i found that, the higher (more expensive) i go, the increase in sonic differences seem to be inversely proportional... (gets smaller and smaller, but meron pa din)
Post by: jetstar on Aug 20, 2008 at 04:18 PM
Could be bogus imitation or direct from dai-ichi ;D ;D ;D
Envy is not my word for them ... ;D ;D ;D ...
In the absence of anything substantial ... the weight becomes a determinant of viability for most hobbyist - so you hear heavy amp, heavy speaker, heavy everything ;D ;D ;D
ah well, I feel like plunging into the lucrative business of audio and cable! :D
That's what I thought before I bought it. Baka fake. But as soon as I received the stuff, there is no way na fake sya. It's identical sa webpage pics and you will really know the quality at ang bigat lalo na yung Sub cable (6 meters). And the S-Video cable, sealed ang lalagyan. I took the risk kasi maski fake mura naman pero when I received the sub-cable, I ordered right away both component and S-Video cable. Whether fake or not, with this quality, I won't think twice to buy another one when I need it.
Additional close-up pic and you judge: ;D
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3055/2780940792_8619b8de4a.jpg?v=0)
D. Reyes 2008
On-line (www.monstercable.com)pic:
(http://www.monstercable.com/images_db/home_av/audio/MB1000_glam_cu.jpg)
Post by: ricky on Aug 20, 2008 at 05:25 PM
That's what I thought before I bought it. Baka fake. But as soon as I received the stuff, there is no way na fake sya. It's identical sa webpage pics and you will really know the quality at ang bigat lalo na yung Sub cable (6 meters). And the S-Video cable, sealed ang lalagyan. I took the risk kasi maski fake mura naman pero when I received the sub-cable, I ordered right away both component and S-Video cable. Whether fake or not, with this quality, I won't think twice to buy another one when I need it.
Additional close-up pic and you judge: ;D
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3055/2780940792_8619b8de4a.jpg?v=0)
D. Reyes 2008
On-line (www.monstercable.com)pic:
(http://www.monstercable.com/images_db/home_av/audio/MB1000_glam_cu.jpg)
Thanks Bro for the info,already ordered mine ;) Yung 6meters can be cut into 2x3meters,and use the y splitter plugs to terminate it so you'll get 2 cables for 2 subs at fraction of the cost ;D
Post by: jetstar on Aug 20, 2008 at 06:12 PM
Thanks Bro for the info,already ordered mine ;) Yung 6meters can be cut into 2x3meters,and use the y splitter plugs to terminate it so you'll get 2 cables for 2 subs at fraction of the cost ;D
Good deal bro. You got it from Smallfry (Amazon)? That seller rocks. I even received personal email from him when I inquired.
Post by: audiojunkie on Aug 20, 2008 at 06:18 PM
Post by: ricky on Aug 20, 2008 at 06:45 PM
only problem I found with monster RCA plugs were very tight that have to be extra careful in unplugging them otherwise the female connector will be pulled out from the unit... ::) ::) :( :D
The better, yon ang gusto ko masikip ;D unlike don sa mga generics na lumuluwag :(
Post by: fita on Aug 20, 2008 at 11:40 PM
Envy is not my word for them ... ;D ;D ;D ...
Para matulungan yung mga nagtataka kung ano ibig sabihin ni sir:
excerpts
"I strongly suspect that people are more gullible today than they were in my younger years. Back then we didn’t put magnets in our shoes, the police didn’t use psychics to search for missing persons, and no head of state since Hitler had consulted astrologers. Most of us believed in science without any reservations...
ayan naka red, tanga daw.
Pero ayon dito:
Could be bogus imitation or direct from dai-ichi ;D ;D ;D
May fake ba sa amazon? ::)
ala NBA buzzer: SINO KAYANG TAyAAAA!!! :D
Fake sa Amazon, hahahahaha.
Post by: jetstar on Aug 21, 2008 at 12:41 AM
Items Ordered
1 of: Monster Cable M Series Subwoofer Cable M1000 6M w/ Y
Sold by: smallfry82 (seller profile)
Item(s) Subtotal: $34.99
Shipping & Handling: $4.49
-----
Total Before Tax: $39.48
Sales tax: $0.00
-----
Total for this Shipment: $39.48
Link to smallfry82's storefront:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/shops/index.html?ie=UTF8&sellerID=A1A4LU1CYHX6U8
Profile:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/seller/at-a-glance.html?ie=UTF8&isAmazonFulfilled=0&orderID=058-1750895-4442734&marketplaceSeller=1&seller=A1A4LU1CYHX6U8
He is a high rated merchant. :)
Post by: jetstar on Aug 21, 2008 at 12:45 AM
Congrats! Those are great deals.
Bose AM is derided for being overpriced and of low quality.
In contrast, Monster Cables are bashed for being overpriced, but nobody is saying that Monster's quality is bad.
Now if you can get Monster Cables at good prices, then you have the best of both worlds.
Thanks! ;)
Post by: John E. on Aug 21, 2008 at 04:26 AM
Para matulungan yung mga nagtataka kung ano ibig sabihin ni sir:
ayan naka red, tanga daw.
Pero ayon dito:
ala NBA buzzer: SINO KAYANG TAyAAAA!!! :D
Fake sa Amazon, hahahahaha.
uy he's baaack! ;D
Post by: audiojunkie on Aug 21, 2008 at 01:03 PM
The better, yon ang gusto ko masikip ;D unlike don sa mga generics na lumuluwag :(
yes, I agree with you sir. pero pagsobrang higpit naman nagagasgas yong coating ng connector... :(
Post by: barrister on Aug 21, 2008 at 01:29 PM
only problem I found with monster RCA plugs were very tight that have to be extra careful in unplugging them otherwise the female connector will be pulled out from the unit... ::) ::) :( :D
There have been complaints about Monster plugs gripping too tightly. It's true that a tight fit is a secure fit, but it's also true that if it's too tight, you risk breaking the RCA jacks on the component when connecting/removing the plug.
Browse some forum comments: http://forums.cnet.com/5208-7813_102-0.html?forumID=60&threadID=169591&messageID=1875367
The best option is an RCA plug with an adjustable fit. I use Acoustic Research Master Series:
(http://www.electronicsoutfitter.com/images/items/276/29276-ms271.jpg)
It has a screw inside. Twist the plug clockwise to loosen, counter-clockwise to tighten. Tighten when connected, loosen when connecting/removing.
Post by: Lancito on Aug 21, 2008 at 02:08 PM
There have been complaints about Monster plugs gripping too tightly. It's true that a tight fit is a secure fit, but it's also true that if it's too tight, you risk breaking the RCA jacks on the component when connecting/removing the plug.
Browse some forum comments: http://forums.cnet.com/5208-7813_102-0.html?forumID=60&threadID=169591&messageID=1875367
The best option is an RCA plug with an adjustable fit. I use Acoustic Research Master Series:
(http://www.electronicsoutfitter.com/images/items/276/29276-ms271.jpg)
It has a screw inside. Twist the plug clockwise to loosen, counter-clockwise to tighten. Tighten when connected, loosen when connecting/removing.
That's exactly what I use for the digital coax.
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 21, 2008 at 05:56 PM
uy he's baaack! ;D
TAyA siya! ;D ;D ;D
Monster are made by Dai - and it is not a fake - and it is not expensive.
The only expensive in Monster is the profit! ;D ;D ;D
So if you get bulk, either of the 2 is correct
(1) the selling price is cheaper (if the cost is reasonably passed to consumer)
(2) the profit is better (if the hyped cost is maintained to retail buyer)
yes, I agree with you sir. pero pagsobrang higpit naman nagagasgas yong coating ng connector... :(
and herein is another mystery of hobbyist ... that those coating is something helpful in their audio ... the fact is ... it is better to remove those coating for good conductivity ... of course, it is a choice for anybody - your eyes or your ears, anything in between is a compromise!
IMHO ... many are documented fakes ... not in the usual sense of the word ... have you heard cheap cable re-clad in high-end nice-looking heavy insulation? ... it is labeled a good brand high-end name and sold high end as well ... of course it is a high end name, what else is there! ... Of course, its construction is good, why not for the price.
As for the sound ... oh please, visit the matrixhifi.com if you are a newbie in pdvd and in the hobby ... oooh ... aaah ... what else is new? Just monster's price - relatively cheaper than before - and now challenging more expensive one the same challenge for which they were subjected before. Who's kidding who?
Back to fita!
Post by: streetsmart on Aug 22, 2008 at 06:24 AM
Monster are made by Dai - and it is not a fake - and it is not expensive.
Is this correct? Are Monster products (at least some of them, I guess) manufactured by Dai-Ichi? Any documentation to prove this?
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 22, 2008 at 07:33 AM
Is this correct? Are Monster products (at least some of them, I guess) manufactured by Dai-Ichi? Any documentation to prove this?
:o :o :o
;D ;D ;D
Belief is one thing, facts is another thing!
If you live in belief system with your hobby, you will be in Nirvana ... a non-existent make belief audio world ... no more no less ... founded on concepts built on a shaky sand ... easily swayed to and fro by audio & marketing hypes
Facts are hard to come by ... and only comes to those who study and investigate their hobby before plunging to anything supported by everything except brains and common sense ...
but for fita ... just let your money work ... and then ... imagine things ... but be sure you express it poetically ... using hollow adjectives like oohhh aahhh wide high 3D soundstage ... so people can at least believe you ... and also buy!
Newbies ... start and learn RIGHT from the start ... so you end RIGHT in your hobby ... search your facts and filter your consultants ... there are lots of snake oils in the audio world - even your closest friend maybe one of the cult ... good luck!
For those born yesterday ... good luck as well ... may you have more money to feed the monsters, the imaginative and very creative manufacturers of 'high-end' gears ... whatever high-end means there (to me, its only the price - but not their product)!
Post by: streetsmart on Aug 22, 2008 at 09:26 AM
Frankly, I am only curious and intrigued that a local company might be making some of the Monster products. Are you saying that this is true, but that for some reason, you cannot disclose any documentation to prove this? As you said, facts are what are important and if you can't show any proof, I guess I will take your statement with a grain of salt.
It's not that I am a fan of Monster. I'm just curious.
Post by: barrister on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Is this correct? Are Monster products (at least some of them, I guess) manufactured by Dai-Ichi? Any documentation to prove this?
It's hard to prove, that's why I never mention it here. Documentation will be hard to find, since Dai-ichi and its OEM client surely have a confidentiality agreement.
But I have heard whispers and speculations about it. As for documentation, these are the best I can find:
" ... on March 13, 1989, SAISHO ONKYO INC., was formed in Cavite Export Zone to take over the production and operation for loudspeaker for its export market, customers and to name a few that include: Armstrong World Industries, Inc. KH Manufacturing, Klipsch, Mitek Corp, Stamina Int'l, BG Corporation, KEF, Celestion, Macrom, Phoenix Gold, Radio Shack, Kenwood, TDJ, Coustic, MTX, Cerwin Vega, Magnadyne, Peavey, and Monster Cable and others."
http://www.daiichi.ph/aboutus.htm
" ... supplying to almost all the OEM market, and majority of the branded market. To name a few : Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, LG, Samsung, Fujitsu Ten, Toyota, Mistubishi, Nissan, Honda, Isuzu Ford. Export OEM and ODM supplier to more than hundreds of satisfied customers of major brands, and to more than 46 countries world wide such as KEF, Celestion, Macrom, Phoenix Gold, Radio Shack, Kenwood, TDJ, Coustic, MTX, Macrom, Cerwin Vega, Magnadyne, Mito, Peavey, Monster Cable, and automotive speaker custom built for Freightliner, Peterbilt, and major R/V in the US. Replacement OEM after market speaker for Chrysler, Daimler, Volkswagen Volvo. Had been supplier also to JVC, Polk Audio, Jensen etc."
http://co-ph.com/~Dai-1chi/profile.html
Post by: streetsmart on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Post by: ninjababez® on Aug 22, 2008 at 12:55 PM
does thicker means better? (regardless of the brand)
Post by: surg on Aug 22, 2008 at 01:05 PM
Post by: barrister on Aug 22, 2008 at 01:29 PM
Post by: ninjababez® on Aug 22, 2008 at 01:39 PM
There's no question about the quality. What is controversial is the pricing.thats the thing bro .. i mean if theres a better alternative ... id glady choose it .. :D
like 100 pesos per 3 mtr ;D
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 22, 2008 at 03:04 PM
ot:
does thicker means better? (regardless of the brand)
For one, many in the audio hobby do impute different meaning to better - thicker cladding, thicker metal, thicker sound, thicker money - means better.
Then they will further put more vagueness to describe the better as - wider soundstage, crispier high, tighter bass, deeper depth, more realistic imaging, etc etc. In english, whenever you add -er in an adjective/word, you are comparing two things (or you have a reference point).
This is what is called in audio tech lingo as poetic measurement. Means nothing really. it's like 2 babies talking to each other in baby talk, and they seem to understand each other!
;D ;D ;D
So to answer your questions - it depends what you are talking about? thicker wire - from a standpoint of resistivity, has less resistance, better power transfer - so better.
from the standpoint of carrying your small power - may not be practical due to cost with no advantage at all - so not better.
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 22, 2008 at 03:19 PM
There's no question about the quality. What is controversial is the pricing.
That's what am pointing out ... you can get the same quality from other not known brands if you are paying attention to what quality should be looked at in a product - be it cable ... than just paying attention to name brands that ... as I said ... is just a "fake" (meaning recycled non-brand in shining armor for bigger profits) ;D ;D ;D
If you are looking for good gold plating, thicker clads, screw-type or gasgas type, mabigat, mamahaling pangalan ... hay ... di ko alam kung ano pinaggagawa ng mga hobbyist na ito ... at panay quote lang sa mga technical ek-ek na di rin nila naintindihan!
I buy chinese no-name brands ... cheap ... buy one, disect, check ... if ok, buy more. Unless you really believe those monster and xindak have factory of cables! ;D ;D ;D
Some curious head bought expensive cables ... and dissected it ... and traced the source in far flung eastern europe ... so cheap ... and yet so expensive!!! ;D ;D ;D
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 22, 2008 at 03:31 PM
thats the thing bro .. i mean if theres a better alternative ... id glady choose it .. :D
like 100 pesos per 3 mtr ;D
The first 1 I saw an IC with good insulation workmanship, transparent blue, with foil shielding the 2 wires inside. I bought 2. Good IC at 100 only. Tried to get more, gone! Tried to look from other sources, found cheaper immitation - not good! Recently visited deeco in ever commonwealth, found 3m of similar quality. Got 3 each @ P100. planning to cut into three pieces, so got heavy RCA's in the store as well in praparation. Of course you can buy less quality at higher price, why not.
Post by: leomar on Aug 22, 2008 at 04:43 PM
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:47 PM
@aHobbit,
Frankly, I am only curious and intrigued that a local company might be making some of the Monster products. Are you saying that this is true, but that for some reason, you cannot disclose any documentation to prove this? As you said, facts are what are important and if you can't show any proof, I guess I will take your statement with a grain of salt.
It's not that I am a fan of Monster. I'm just curious.
Shipping bulk together with elemental audio right from their warehouse ... to the land of the green and money! ;) ... monster is just the tip of the iceberg ;D ;D ;D
Post by: streetsmart on Aug 23, 2008 at 07:06 AM
Shipping bulk together with elemental audio right from their warehouse ... to the land of the green and money! ;) ... monster is just the tip of the iceberg ;D ;D ;D
Ahh .. baka naman pwede sila mag-sale sa Divisoria ng export overrun. ;D ;D
Post by: ninjababez® on Aug 23, 2008 at 07:33 AM
Ahh .. baka naman pwede sila mag-sale sa Divisoria ng export overrun. ;D ;Dspeaking of divi .. ill try to drop by raon and check out em cables :D
Post by: oweidah on Aug 23, 2008 at 08:05 AM
kaya ako, pag napadpad sa sm.megamall, laging bumibisita sa daii, bakasakali... ;D
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:39 AM
speaking of divi .. ill try to drop by raon and check out em cables :D
Their new creation ... a low sensitivity line speaker is in demo ... with the matching sub for each ... a Yamaha RX-V630 cant put a decent sound into it ... 4 ohms ;D ;D ;D
The first time I saw it, the sub is just filled with primers of diff colors, and the welds in the tower are just spot welds ;D ;D ;D
Due it is thin, I thought it is an array of 2" speakers :P ... only to find out they are N8 planars :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ... You need 200wpc amp to rock the house with loud and clean unobtrusive sound 8) 8) 8)
Post by: oweidah on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:43 AM
Their new creation ... a low sensitivity line speaker is in demo ... with the matching sub for each ... a Yamaha RX-V630 cant put a decent sound into it ... 4 ohms ;D ;D ;D
The first time I saw it, the sub is just filled with primers of diff colors, and the welds in the tower are just spot welds ;D ;D ;D
Due it is thin, I thought it is an array of 2" speakers :P ... only to find out they are N8 planars :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ... You need 200wpc amp to rock the house with loud and clean unobtrusive sound 8) 8) 8)
wow neo8 ribbon planars (3k/pair)...magkano naman kaya yun set? ::)
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:44 AM
o.t.
kaya ako, pag napadpad sa sm.megamall, laging bumibisita sa daii, bakasakali... ;D
ako mas type ko ... auto electrical shop :) :) :) ... especially for cable DIY projects ... sulit pera sa quality 8)
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:46 AM
wow neo8 ribbon planars (3k/pair)...magkano naman kaya yun set? ::)
Di daw pinagbibili ... di ko din type bilhin eh ... ngetpa ;D ;D ;D ... mahal kuryente para sa amp :P :P :P
Pero nakapost na yung model na yun before dito sa pdvd ... mahal!
Post by: oweidah on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:47 AM
o.t.
kaya ako, pag napadpad sa sm.megamall, laging bumibisita sa daii, bakasakali... ;D
oops...clarification...i dont go to daii for cables, i go there to look for interesting speakers ;D
Di daw pinagbibili ... di ko din type bilhin eh ... ngetpa ;D ;D ;D ... mahal kuryente para sa amp :P :P :P
Pero nakapost na yung model na yun before dito sa pdvd ... mahal!
k, mapasadahan nga minsan, baka meron "reject" na mura ::) ;D
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:55 AM
oops...clarification...i dont go to daii for cables, i go there to look for interesting speakers ;D
k, mapasadahan nga minsan, baka meron "reject" na mura ::) ;D
Me inofer din sa kin dati eh ... k...... ::) ... di ko gets ... pero d price is tempting especially if you know how much the profiteers are splashing it to your face ;D ;D ;D . Now super k has new manufacturer ... siyempre not as good as before with mighty D ... cheaper but the price is still expensive, bigger profits ... and guised as their new models with substantial improvements ;D ;D ;D ... what a salestalk :P :P :P
Who among the pdvd believes this Xindak, monster, kimber, XLO are manufacturing and have cable factories? Is it a fact? Its like saying HP manufactures their printers and IBM manufactures its own servers! ;D ;D ;D
Welcome to the 21st century!
Post by: ATJr. on Aug 23, 2008 at 10:01 AM
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 23, 2008 at 10:19 AM
i believe we all agree that expensive cable really do work......... ;D
Of course we do ... after all they are cables, what else to expect ... but we just want to say that a similar small-fraction-price cable also works the same (in fact, identical manner for this application) ... they being cable as well ... what else is there?
okay ... okay ... i know ... nobody is listening ;D ;D ;D ... its all sight and not sounds! :D :D :D
Post by: ninjababez® on Aug 23, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Post by: kraut on Aug 23, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Post by: John E. on Aug 24, 2008 at 05:25 AM
Of course we do ... after all they are cables, what else to expect ... but we just want to say that a similar small-fraction-price cable also works the same (in fact, identical manner for this application) ... they being cable as well ... what else is there?
okay ... okay ... i know ... nobody is listening ;D ;D ;D ... its all sight and not sounds! :D :D :D
so i guess it works...for visual pleasure ;D may psychological effect sya na pag gwapo at mahal cables mo it indeed sound good din ;) well it better! mahal eh!
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 24, 2008 at 03:27 PM
so i guess it works...for visual pleasure ;D may psychological effect sya na pag gwapo at mahal cables mo it indeed sound good din ;) well it better! mahal eh!
Yun nga yung magulo ... better ... looks ... sound good (say "high end cable") ... o di ba sound good ... to the ears kapag nabigkas mo! ;D ;D ;D
Post by: John E. on Aug 24, 2008 at 05:00 PM
Post by: ATJr. on Aug 25, 2008 at 09:31 AM
so i guess it works...for visual pleasure ;D may psychological effect sya na pag gwapo at mahal cables mo it indeed sound good din ;) well it better! mahal eh!
meron talaga, expensive things are always a joy to have and be proud of....pwede kasing ipagyabang ...... ;D
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 25, 2008 at 02:51 PM
meron talaga, expensive things are always a joy to have and be proud of....pwede kasing ipagyabang ...... ;D
Yan nga ang reading ko kapag nagbabasa ako ng high end review ... di ko ma gets yung metrics how they came up with comparison except the use of descriptive words that can hardly be translated into something measureable and make an objective comparison with a reference
Kaya minsan ang dating e, parang boladas na walang katuturan ... naisip mo ba sa kanila, ultimong direksyon ng electron sa resistor, alam daw nila ... pati kable may direksyon si electron na hindi mo pwedeng pagbaligtarin ...
Bottomline ... high end daw yun! ;D ;D ;D Standard yata talaga yon sa enjoyment nila!
Post by: fita on Aug 25, 2008 at 10:48 PM
Ang tawag sa puro haka haka na walang pruweba ay TSISMIS. Sabi ni lola, ang lalaking puro tsismis ay kuwan, pero haka haka lang naman yun. hakahaha.
Luma na yang OEM na storyang yan, kahit barbero alam yan. Peke= piratang DVD mo atbp, OEM ay lisensyado. E mali ka pa rin tungkol sa peke sa Amazon! Aminin! hahahaha
Bantay pare, doble TAyA!
Post by: barrister on Aug 25, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Sabi ni lola, ang lalaking puro tsismis ay kuwan, pero haka haka lang naman yun. hahaha.
Eto ang alam kong sawikain:
"Ang maniwala sa sabi-sabi, walang bait sa sarili." ;)
Post by: fita on Aug 26, 2008 at 12:10 AM
Grabe ka sir, ang lakas mong mang-asar! :D
Sino? Di naman siguro ako, si racks r us pa lang naman naasar sa akin. haha
Naniniwala lang naman ako sa sawikain na: Gawin sa iba ang gusto mong gawin sa iyo. ;)
Post by: ninjababez® on Aug 26, 2008 at 05:58 AM
yes, but as ive read here and there .. its not worth it ..
Post by: John E. on Aug 26, 2008 at 07:30 AM
also the word expensive depends on your budget errr...5k may be expensive for some but not to all. like me :D i would consider a 5k up cable expensive.
then again that's just me!
Post by: karce on Aug 26, 2008 at 09:12 AM
anyone done a serious a-b test?
Post by: aHobbit on Aug 27, 2008 at 08:09 PM
;D
rule of thumb daw 5-10% ng budget nasa cables ... pero i heard some people have 100K+ na cable hehehe... 1M naman siguro system nila.
anyone done a serious a-b test?
Nagsisimula pa lang si Monster ... binakbakan na sila ng hamon ... ayaw mag appear sa The Moment! ;D Complete with engineers, tools, and listeners -
parang showdown ng lahat ng klaseng amps ... at the end, nobody can identify which is which! high-end or not ...
Of course, people will continue to drum up hypes (to lure people) ... they need it for the economy (read: profitability)
...
Sabi ni lola, ...
wala ka sa lolo ko ;D ;D ;D
biscuit ka daw !!! :D
As stated ... expensive cable works ... so does cheap cables :)
Post by: greatspkr on Aug 28, 2008 at 01:17 PM
Post by: milken on Aug 28, 2008 at 02:11 PM
Of course it works! If a consumer spent thousands for cables which do not output any sound, malamang kakatayin niya ang dealer. bwahaha just kidding. ;D
The correct question should be: do expensive cables sound better?
Just my take, if you have money to splurge, why not? It gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, boost your ego and give you bragging rights which are not quantifiable! It's probably the same reason why some people buy Lacoste or other high-end shirts...the quality may not be 10x better compared to cheaper branded shirts at 1/10th its price.
Besides, most expensive cables I saw are well-manufactured and looks impressive. So you're paying a premium on brand, materials used and artistic design. ;D ;D ;D
Post by: ǝʞɐɾ ʎzzɐɾ on Aug 28, 2008 at 04:49 PM
Do you believe that expensive cables really work ?
Of course it works! If a consumer spent thousands for cables which do not output any sound, malamang kakatayin niya ang dealer. bwahaha just kidding. ;D
The correct question should be: do expensive cables sound better?
Just my take, if you have money to splurge, why not? It gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, boost your ego and give you bragging rights which are not quantifiable! It's probably the same reason why some people buy Lacoste or other high-end shirts...the quality may not be 10x better compared to cheaper branded shirts at 1/10th its price.
Besides, most expensive cables I saw are well-manufactured and looks impressive. So you're paying a premium on brand, materials used and artistic design. ;D ;D ;D
BOW! Finally some logic!
Post by: jetstar on Aug 29, 2008 at 01:50 AM
Post by: greatspkr on Aug 29, 2008 at 12:00 PM
My point is if you can buy a branded cable like Monster at the same price as DIY or cheap cables, why not. Same with me, I don't believe that "expensive" cable really works... but I believe that good quality cable works. As Barrister said, Monster is a good quality cable pero overpriced sya. So if you can be able to get it for the same price that I have paid, bakit hindi diba? As for the gold plating, I believe this really works. Canon recalled their initial release of the vertical grip for EOS 20D due to contact problem sa battery compartment. Mabilis mag low-battery yung camera but when you attached the battery directly sa body without the vertical grip, full charged sya. The culprit is yung battery terminal. Pinalitan nila ng gold plated and nawala yung problema. Once you return your grip to Canon, they will just replace the battery terminals with the gold plated ones. Though hindi audio related to but it's just the same conductivity issue. ;)yes sir i totally agree, a good quality cable would be enough. Could one really tell the SQ from a good quality cable and from those expensive ones? But if you have the means to shell out extra moolah for the expensive cables by all means go for it. ;D hehehe...
Post by: XXXyzledge on Aug 29, 2008 at 03:06 PM
i am one of those brand concious people................. ;D :P ;D
Post by: popoyextreme on Aug 31, 2008 at 05:37 PM
Post by: blackd70s on Aug 31, 2008 at 06:19 PM
Post by: kraut on Aug 31, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Post by: taurus_cute on Sep 01, 2008 at 12:23 AM
For audio, thats where the causes to argue have to be laid out because sound is not as tangible as video which your eyes, and any body's eye, could truly evaluate - hard and in the flesh.....
Post by: Tonmeister on Sep 02, 2008 at 08:57 AM
Post by: blackd70s on Sep 02, 2008 at 10:18 PM
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/blackd70s/IMG_1446.jpg)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/blackd70s/IMG_1436.jpg)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/blackd70s/IMG_1429.jpg)
Post by: John E. on Sep 03, 2008 at 06:40 AM
i know those will work since it's already paid! ;D
Post by: Tonmeister on Sep 03, 2008 at 09:29 AM
Post by: blackd70s on Sep 03, 2008 at 06:10 PM
blackd70s, those cables look well built so i think it will definitely do a good job and will last you years of A/V enjoyment.
i sure hope so sir tonmeister! ;D
the cables i used prior to these, served me really well (mit + monster) & fairly well (av link) hence my expectation.
Post by: karce on Sep 03, 2008 at 11:21 PM
Sino? Di naman siguro ako, si racks r us pa lang naman naasar sa akin. haha
Naniniwala lang naman ako sa sawikain na: Gawin sa iba ang gusto mong gawin sa iyo. ;)
hehehe si sir fita entertaining o controvertial yung mga posts. cool lang sir. kasi mga ibang tao mas sensitive. peace
Post by: fita on Sep 04, 2008 at 12:19 AM
hehehe si sir fita entertaining o controvertial yung mga posts. cool lang sir. kasi mga ibang tao mas sensitive. peace
Cool lang naman tayo sir, pero hindi na cool yung mga panay tsismis na, may kasamang lait pa.
Ayon sa nabasa ko, yung taong mahilig manglait, maliit ang tingin sa sarili. Kaya gustong maliitin ang iba ay para maipantay ang ibang tao sa paningin nila sa sarili.
Wala naman sigurong ibang tatamaan, isa lang naman yung mahilig manglait dito eh. Ay dalawa pala, si Racks din. Haha.
peace po!
Post by: karce on Sep 04, 2008 at 04:17 PM
Post by: blackd70s on Sep 04, 2008 at 09:56 PM
brader raul,
would appreciate listening impressions from these new cables of yours! and of course comparison vis-a-vis previous cables used.
will do bro! :D
Post by: fita on Sep 07, 2008 at 09:22 PM
yes. peace naman tayo. just a friendly observation. maganda naman talaga sa forum ay yung pag share ng ibat ibang theory at beliefs.
Wala naman akong tutol dyan ser. Pero di naman kailangan na may kasama pang lait yung iba dyan.
Post by: bass_nut on Sep 09, 2008 at 12:10 AM
meron talaga, expensive things are always a joy to have and be proud of....pwede kasing ipagyabang ...... ;D
i agree...
my expensive transparent speaker cables sound the same as my inexpensive 2 wired 12awg royal cord (around P36.00 per meter) which are very much available from most hardware stores...
cheers!!
fer
Post by: dindop on Sep 27, 2008 at 01:22 AM
I tried comparing my audioquest cable vs a thin figure of 8 lamp cord. I ran a test tone, measured the voltage across my speaker terminals, and maintained it... i think i was getting around 1.61V using a 500Hz tone. That became my point of comparison between the 2 cables. I listened to spanish harlem, grandma's hands, bass test, and the brute force drum test on chesky's ultimate demo disc - over and over again, interchanging the 2 cables after each set.... all the while ensuring that prior to listening, the volume was adjusted so that the speaker voltage was the same using the 500Hz test tone.
If ever there was a difference, i couldn't hear it. If i didn't adjust the volume to maintain the speaker terminal voltage, there is a difference, i.e., the el-cheapo cable was more silent, but once volume is raised by a wee bit... nada! :o
I didn't have the energy or gusto to continue testing at other test frequencies... nakakapagod magpalipat-lipat ng kable ;D
Post by: banesto on Apr 02, 2021 at 11:35 AM
S-Y-N-E-R-G-YVery very correct sir jen hehehehehe
This is the Key!
I have used (and tried) both budget and expensive (meaning P10,000 and above)...some would work, some would not, what matters is SYSTEM MATCHING! I have tried using P50,000++ cables BUT does not match my system and those generics even sound better...
Post by: stevesonk on Apr 17, 2021 at 02:34 AM
Post by: neilc on Apr 17, 2021 at 06:23 AM
expensive audio cables do really works.. the question for individual listeners were.., is it audible..? can they hear the difference..? or if they hear a big/slight difference, is it worth it..? are you satisfied with it..?
How will you know if it works if you can’t hear the difference?
I have tried expensive cables (10k range) vs decent cables and there’s no audible difference. These are speaker cables.
For connectors, it’s different for me. There’s a difference of course
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: stevesonk on Apr 17, 2021 at 06:47 AM
How will you know if it works if you can’t hear the difference?simply by playing a song several times at an acoustically treated room.., you can hear a difference, but by playing a song one time, at blind test, im one of them failed to hear the difference of a mid range speaker cable vs high end cables.. :'(
I have tried expensive cables (10k range) vs decent cables and there’s no audible difference. These are speaker cables.
For connectors, it’s different for me. There’s a difference of course (https://s3.amazonaws.com/tapatalk-emoji/emoji3.png)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: Arulco on Apr 17, 2021 at 02:48 PM
Sa USB cable lang ako nakarinig ng difference pag USB-powered yung DAC. Pinag-isa kasi yung power line at data line sa cable. Sa low quality printer USB cable, dinig ko yung harshness. Parang may interference. Bumili ako nung WireWorld USB cable. Mahal pero flat cable siya kasi parang hiniwalay yung data sa power line. Nawala yung harshness.
Post by: alvinbaronsia on Apr 17, 2021 at 03:45 PM
Post by: Nelson de Leon on Apr 17, 2021 at 06:08 PM
simply by playing a song several times at an acoustically treated room.., you can hear a difference, but by playing a song one time, at blind test, im one of them failed to hear the difference of a mid range speaker cable vs high end cables.. :'(
IMO, there's no point in discussing this. It's like religion, either you believe it or you don't, either you hear it or you don't. Science/measurements based sites like audiosciencereview and audioholics say their machines don't detect any difference in response curves and IMD, and they can't hear any difference as well (though there are some instances where expensive battery powered AQ cables have more distortion). Some people swear by it despite any lack of evidence apart from their subjectivity. Personally, I've tried kimber, chord, qed, zu, van damme, mogami, monoprice, diy pure silver, diy silver plated, and all of these whether speaker wire, digital coax, interconnect or power cable did not make any difference in my room with all the gears i've tried it. If it makes your gears sound better, then good for you.
Case to case basis talaga. Minsan kaya hindi mo madinig kasi your system is not transparent enough to make the difference audible. Sometimes it's the pre-amp and power amp, minsan sobrang colored ng sound to a point where maski palitan mo ng source or DAC walang difference... It's a system talaga...
Post by: tony on Apr 17, 2021 at 06:26 PM
Case to case basis talaga. Minsan kaya hindi mo madinig kasi your system is not transparent enough to make the difference audible. Sometimes it's the pre-amp and power amp, minsan sobrang colored ng sound to a point where maski palitan mo ng source or DAC walang difference... It's a system talaga...
so it is not the cable, itself, pricey or not pricey...
Post by: tony on Apr 17, 2021 at 06:28 PM
IMO, there's no point in discussing this. It's like religion, either you believe it or you don't, either you hear it or you don't. Science/measurements based sites like audiosciencereview and audioholics say their machines don't detect any difference in response curves and IMD, and they can't hear any difference as well (though there are some instances where expensive battery powered AQ cables have more distortion). Some people swear by it despite any lack of evidence apart from their subjectivity. Personally, I've tried kimber, chord, qed, zu, van damme, mogami, monoprice, diy pure silver, diy silver plated, and all of these whether speaker wire, digital coax, interconnect or power cable did not make any difference in my room with all the gears i've tried it. If it makes your gears sound better, then good for you.
dati very heated ang mga debates about cables......ngayon ChiFi na ang uso......
Post by: Nelson de Leon on Apr 17, 2021 at 06:53 PM
so it is not the cable, itself, pricey or not pricey...
There is not a concrete answer to your question. Like I said, it's a case to case basis. Wait i'll highlight my answers so you'd understand my replies better.
Case to case basis talaga. Minsan kaya hindi mo madinig kasi your system is not transparent enough to make the difference audible. Sometimes it's the pre-amp and power amp, minsan sobrang colored ng sound to a point where maski palitan mo ng source or DAC walang difference... It's a system talaga...
In short, it's NOT JUST THE CABLES. You should also consider the system. It may be the cable, but it also may not be.
Siguro for me ang magandang question for those who have heard the difference is:
Is the price that you paid for the cables worth the audible difference in sound?
Post by: accastil on Apr 17, 2021 at 07:24 PM
If a system isnt good enough to start with, do not bother.
Post by: alvinbaronsia on Apr 17, 2021 at 07:39 PM
Let's put this in perspective.
Cables can either MAKE or BREAK a really good system. Do not take them for granted.
If a system isnt good enough to start with, do not bother.
What is a good enough system for cables to start to matter? and what starter cables would you recommend to them?
Case to case basis talaga. Minsan kaya hindi mo madinig kasi your system is not transparent enough to make the difference audible. Sometimes it's the pre-amp and power amp, minsan sobrang colored ng sound to a point where maski palitan mo ng source or DAC walang difference... It's a system talaga...
Transparency - probably not, those peeps in ASR have the most transparent systems using the cleanest/highest SINAD systems with DACs like AK4499s/ESS9018s and Hypex/Purifi systems and they cannot hear the difference.
Which systems have you encountered which cables mattered?
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Apr 17, 2021 at 07:45 PM
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/TNZkn6.jpg)
Post by: synchro_01 on Apr 17, 2021 at 07:56 PM
Post by: Own7 on Apr 17, 2021 at 09:38 PM
Believe in this “cable upgrade” arguement. Now that my system is so revealing
Of everything, i resort to cables to either improve or alter the sound or gives
Me the colouration that i want.
if your system is not revealing enough, you might not hear any improvement.
Para nyo namang sinabing sira ulo namin to spend mega bucks sa cables if we cant
Hear any significant improvements.
Post by: Verbl Kint on Apr 17, 2021 at 09:59 PM
Do I think that the price difference with cables is audible?
I am of the opinion that it doesn't make a difference because I have not seen a peer-reviewed study (with all the boring charts and data, of course) that actually proves there is a difference.
It's all about the data for me.
Post by: Onkyo606 on Apr 17, 2021 at 10:33 PM
Post by: raptor on Apr 18, 2021 at 12:41 AM
Post by: Nelson de Leon on Apr 18, 2021 at 04:26 AM
First, different materials have different conductivity, Inductance, resistance etc., hence the difference.
Second, cables cannot add anything to a system to make it sound good or bad. For me it's a passive material. Just because a system sounded good, it means that everything in that system is good. It's the synergy of the system (everything in it) including sound interaction with the room.
Third, it doesn't matter (for me) if a cable is cheap or not as long as it fits my preference and sounded good in my system.
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Apr 18, 2021 at 05:27 AM
Post by: Own7 on Apr 18, 2021 at 05:34 AM
If you buy expensive cars is it worth it ba?
If you buy expensive toys like bicycles, scooters, motorycles, headphones etc.
It worth it ba?
Of course they are all worth it. If you go about the satisfaction vs value
Proposition. assuming you’re satisfied, if not, then thats when the arguement
Begins.
Others will tell you na “snake oil” yan. But the problem is wala pa ako nakikitang
Local manufacturers na kayang gumawa ng speaker cables/ interconnect na
Ka level ng transparent reference or nordost. Buti pa speakers me nakakagawa
Ng local.
Post by: tony on Apr 18, 2021 at 12:17 PM
ditto with banana plugs, the leaves can come loose fitting with the binding posts, i almost replaced output traffos because of loose fitting banana plugs...
of course getting good cables regardless if it cost big or not makes sense.
Post by: tony on Apr 18, 2021 at 12:18 PM
I already have made peace with myself regarding cables. Hehe!
First, different materials have different conductivity, Inductance, resistance etc., hence the difference.
Second, cables cannot add anything to a system to make it sound good or bad. For me it's a passive material. Just because a system sounded good, it means that everything in that system is good. It's the synergy of the system (everything in it) including sound interaction with the room.
Third, it doesn't matter (for me) if a cable is cheap or not as long as it fits my preference and sounded good in my system.
agreed on all points...
Post by: CMac on Apr 19, 2021 at 04:55 AM
Post by: oweidah on Apr 19, 2021 at 06:21 AM
it doesnt sound better. it just sounds different
Post by: Own7 on Apr 19, 2021 at 07:22 AM
With their own equipment. If not?...then he/her opinion should be taken with a
Grain of salt.
I have done it, i was a non believer, but now, i cant see myself not including
Or giving importance to the power of good /expensive cables.
Post by: jh@meeh on Apr 19, 2021 at 07:36 AM
Post by: alvinbaronsia on Apr 19, 2021 at 10:58 AM
I hope members here are expressing their opinions on actual listening experience
With their own equipment. If not?...then he/her opinion should be taken with a
Grain of salt.
I have done it, i was a non believer, but now, i cant see myself not including
Or giving importance to the power of good /expensive cables.
For me it was the other wary around, I've spent more than 100k in different cables, and I could swear they were all different. Then a friend challenged me to a blind test. We used his system, and I failed. I couldn't consistently tell the difference between my Kimber 8TC and a monoprice 12AWG. For interconnects, it was the same thing, I had pure silver DIY inteconnects and wasn't any different from monoprice RCAs. For power cables, we used Zu Audio Event vs generic. The system used was CXN -> Chord Hugo 2 -> Hegel H190 -> KEF Ref 1. It is a treated room that was done by Nelson. I did another A-B comparison with my system and even if it wasn't blind anymore, I couldn't tell anymore... like I woke up from the Matrix and couldn't get back LOL.
I don't regret spending that much as I do consider it part of the hobby and I do think I it is an itch that you need to scratch. I've tried and I've made my peace with it. But I would recommend to those who want to try, is to buy the best speakers you can, have your room treated by Nelson, then the best amp you can, then DAC. then springs/couplers/decouplers, then when you have your perfect system, spend what you have left with cables. and hope your system will reveal the sound of cables.
Post by: Stephen Y on Apr 19, 2021 at 11:15 AM
Buying expensive cables really is just for making yourself feel good and that will make you sleep better at night.. coz if you own a 100k pair of speakers & a 150k amp.. why would you connect a 16awg @ Php30 per foot wires? Kahit pa sa pandinig mo pareho lang tunog sa kimber kable 8TC!
Post by: alvinbaronsia on Apr 19, 2021 at 11:33 AM
Who cares whether I believe they work or not? jh@meeh is right.. at the end of the day people cannot judge your hearing! Audio is just so subjective...
Buying expensive cables really is just for making yourself feel good and that will make you sleep better at night.. coz if you own a 100k pair of speakers & a 150k amp.. why would you connect a 16awg @ Php30 per foot wires? Kahit pa sa pandinig mo pareho lang tunog sa kimber kable 8TC!
The Reference 1 are 360k speakers. Why? because the owner wants to spend more on his car collection. For me, could've bought and tried a Polk Legend or Goldenear BRX and scratch those off my curiousity. But don't worry, he's not using the Monoprice anymore, I gave him my Zu Audio Libtecs so masmaganda na hitsura.
Post by: banesto on Apr 19, 2021 at 11:48 AM
Who cares whether I believe they work or not? jh@meeh is right.. at the end of the day people cannot judge your hearing! Audio is just so subjective...Tama ka rin dyan sa parteng iyan bro. Bakit ka bibili ng cable na Php30 per foot kung ang halaga ng amp ay 150k.
Buying expensive cables really is just for making yourself feel good and that will make you sleep better at night.. coz if you own a 100k pair of speakers & a 150k amp.. why would you connect a 16awg @ Php30 per foot wires? Kahit pa sa pandinig mo pareho lang tunog sa kimber kable 8TC!
Post by: Own7 on Apr 19, 2021 at 11:58 AM
Who cares whether I believe they work or not? jh@meeh is right.. at the end of the day people cannot judge your hearing! Audio is just so subjective...
Buying expensive cables really is just for making yourself feel good and that will make you sleep better at night.. coz if you own a 100k pair of speakers & a 150k amp.. why would you connect a 16awg @ Php30 per foot wires? Kahit pa sa pandinig mo pareho lang tunog sa kimber kable 8TC!
Actually i buy expensive cables not to sleep better, i buy expensive speaker cables
To bring out the full potential of my system.
A kef reference 1 does not deserve a kimber 8tc, he will not get the full potential
Of that speakers. It needs better.
Post by: synchro_01 on Apr 19, 2021 at 11:59 AM
Tama ka rin dyan sa parteng iyan bro. Bakit ka bibili ng cable na Php30 per foot kung ang halaga ng amp ay 150k.
Correct. Para kang naka Ferrari tapos nagkabit sa Blumentritt ng Sailun na gulong. Yes it will work...gugulong din naman yun. Cheaper than the 50K per tire of a stock Ferrari but does it make sense to you as a Ferrari owner?
Post by: Own7 on Apr 19, 2021 at 12:06 PM
For me it was the other wary around, I've spent more than 100k in different cables, and I could swear they were all different. Then a friend challenged me to a blind test. We used his system, and I failed. I couldn't consistently tell the difference between my Kimber 8TC and a monoprice 12AWG. For interconnects, it was the same thing, I had pure silver DIY inteconnects and wasn't any different from monoprice RCAs. For power cables, we used Zu Audio Event vs generic. The system used was CXN -> Chord Hugo 2 -> Hegel H190 -> KEF Ref 1. It is a treated room that was done by Nelson. I did another A-B comparison with my system and even if it wasn't blind anymore, I couldn't tell anymore... like I woke up from the Matrix and couldn't get back LOL.
I don't regret spending that much as I do consider it part of the hobby and I do think I it is an itch that you need to scratch. I've tried and I've made my peace with it. But I would recommend to those who want to try, is to buy the best speakers you can, have your room treated by Nelson, then the best amp you can, then DAC. then springs/couplers/decouplers, then when you have your perfect system, spend what you have left with cables. and hope your system will reveal the sound of cables.
Bro dalin ko cables ko try ulit natin, kimber 8tc will not bring justice to those
Expensive equipments, dala ako cables, pag di mo marinig difference ihataw
Mo sa likod ko.😀
Post by: alvinbaronsia on Apr 19, 2021 at 12:54 PM
Post by: Stephen Y on Apr 19, 2021 at 01:35 PM
Now THIS is the fun part of our hobby.. the camaraderie that develops within a community of audiophiles.. the sharing of knowledge & gears/cables that Placebo effect or not.. fosters friendship
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Apr 19, 2021 at 02:51 PM
Post by: CMac on Apr 19, 2021 at 03:42 PM
Post by: Arulco on Apr 19, 2021 at 05:11 PM
who started this thread? I cant sleep anymore!
Haha this topic never fails to trigger audiophiles and objectivists.
Now to tweak my system with them shakti stones, cable lifters and ground boxes. hehe
Post by: synchro_01 on Apr 19, 2021 at 05:19 PM
Haha this topic never fails to trigger audiophiles and objectivists.
Now to tweak my system with them shakti stones, cable lifters and ground boxes. hehe
Yes. This never fails to escalate emotions. Same thing for Analog vs. Digital, Tube and S/S etc.
Post by: Nelson de Leon on Apr 19, 2021 at 05:49 PM
Bro dalin ko cables ko try ulit natin, kimber 8tc will not bring justice to those
Expensive equipments, dala ako cables, pag di mo marinig difference ihataw
Mo sa likod ko.😀
Next year na lang ulit. Sa holy week. Tapos lagyan natin ng blade sa dulo yun wire. ;D
Post by: Own7 on Apr 19, 2021 at 06:00 PM
Next year na lang ulit. Sa holy week. Tapos lagyan natin ng blade sa dulo yun wire. ;D
He he he. Talagang ihahataw mo sa likod ko ha! Nakakahiya na sa parte ko
Pag wala kayong narinig na pag babago sugatan pa. 😓
Post by: Own7 on Apr 19, 2021 at 06:12 PM
Yes. This never fails to escalate emotions. Same thing for Analog vs. Digital, Tube and S/S etc.
Pare isa ka sa dapat sisihin eh.
Do you remember nung binili ko sa iyo yung van den hul wire? A i was using
Plain wires noon, the positive effect of that cable was an eye opener for me.
I was able to tame the highs as well as improve the soundstage width and depht.
Now, after many upgrades later, naipamana ko sa pinsan ko yun, positive
Effect din sa kanya from his bare monster cables.
Post by: synchro_01 on Apr 19, 2021 at 08:57 PM
Pare isa ka sa dapat sisihin eh.
Do you remember nung binili ko sa iyo yung van den hul wire? A i was using
Plain wires noon, the positive effect of that cable was an eye opener for me.
I was able to tame the highs as well as improve the soundstage width and depht.
Now, after many upgrades later, naipamana ko sa pinsan ko yun, positive
Effect din sa kanya from his bare monster cables.
;D Yes I remember those cables. Hallmark ng VDH yan...in my system it tamed the somewhat aggressive top end as well plus expanded the midband. Good to know that it still brings positive results in different set ups. Those cables used to connect two Classe S1000's (yes 1KW each RMS) to big B&W's, Dynaudio and other speakers we used to have. Later on it was the cable I used for my Threshold amp and my Contours.
Sayang pandemic ngayon. may isasali din sana ako sa shootout na cables na matagal na nasa cabinet.
Post by: stevesonk on Apr 19, 2021 at 11:13 PM
Next year na lang ulit. Sa holy week. Tapos lagyan natin ng blade sa dulo yun wire. ;Dsagot ko alcohol..!! ;D
Post by: banesto on Apr 20, 2021 at 09:33 AM
sagot ko alcohol..!! ;DBwahahahaha.... Ayos na ayos yan
Post by: synchro_01 on Apr 20, 2021 at 10:09 AM
sagot ko alcohol..!! ;D
Ang katapat nyan is BBQ and steak dinner. Mga isang oras na inom lang yan may mga naririnig na tayo na kakaiba sa audio system kahit naka pause hahahaha
Post by: banesto on Apr 20, 2021 at 10:27 AM
Ang katapat nyan is BBQ and steak dinner. Mga isang oras na inom lang yan may mga naririnig na tayo na kakaiba sa audio system kahit naka pause hahahahaHahahahahahha Totoo yan. Pag nakakainom ako lalo na pag masarap ang pulutan kakaiba talaga ang nadidinig kong tunog.
Post by: synchro_01 on Apr 20, 2021 at 10:33 AM
Hahahahahahha Totoo yan. Pag nakakainom ako lalo na pag masarap ang pulutan kakaiba talaga ang nadidinig kong tunog.
Same here. Yung Audience 52 ko nagiging Wilson Audio pag naka 3 bote ng beer na ako LOL
Anyways back to topic tayo sa cables.
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Apr 20, 2021 at 11:05 AM
Same here. Yung Audience 52 ko nagiging Wilson Audio pag naka 3 bote ng beer na ako LOL
Anyways back to topic tayo sa cables.
This is a nice antidote, it's been a while I drank, balikan ko din baka yung SHL5 ko maging 40.2 na din ;D
Post by: synchro_01 on Apr 20, 2021 at 11:10 AM
This is a nice antidote, it's been a while I drank, balikan ko din baka yung SHL5 ko maging 40.2 na din ;D
Epekto ng alcohol yan. Instant upgrade. Yung Jeepney driver nga eh pag nakainom akala nya Ferrari dala nya eh hahahaha
Cables na pag usapan natin. Hopefully matuloy yung blind listening test. Eye opener nga kaya or I told you so moment? abangan natin yan.
Post by: Own7 on Apr 20, 2021 at 12:04 PM
sagot ko alcohol..!! ;D
He meant rubbing alcohol mga bro. Mawawalan kayo pandinig pag nag kataon😀
Post by: jh@meeh on Apr 20, 2021 at 01:15 PM
Post by: stevesonk on Apr 20, 2021 at 01:22 PM
Q : Do you believe that expensive cables really works..?
A : No..
(Shot..!!)
Q : Do you believe..?
A : No.
(Shot..!!)
Q : Now, do you believe..?
A : well Of course..!! it really works.!!
:o
Post by: at_sunset_blvd on Apr 20, 2021 at 01:49 PM
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/0bB6E2.jpg)
Post by: raptor on Apr 20, 2021 at 03:55 PM
Same here. Yung Audience 52 ko nagiging Wilson Audio pag naka 3 bote ng beer na ako LOL
Anyways back to topic tayo sa cables.
I agree that wine and beer improves the audio quality ... pero mas matindi maka-improve ng audio quality yung may nagsasayaw sa stage then biglang mag-i-split, walang sinabi expensive cable ... pauwi ka na naaalala mo pa yung music ... LOL :) :) :)
Post by: lithium_deuteride on Apr 20, 2021 at 04:49 PM
You can be perfectly happy with the sound of your system, not knowing that the SQ is being held back severely by a certain cable. And you can't know that until you try a different cable in your system. When you do, there will certainly be a change in sound but whether that change is for the better, for the worse, or sideways depends on the individual listener. If it's for the better, then it's up to the system owner to decide if the price delta is worth paying.
If you hear no difference when you change a cable, most likely your gear just isn't resolving enough. Then you're better off spending on better gear than on more expensive cables.
Post by: oweidah on Apr 20, 2021 at 05:08 PM
Post by: Own7 on Apr 20, 2021 at 05:34 PM
Gen. 5. The reference gen. 5 is twice and a half more expensive than the 24sx,
What improved? Lower noise floor, deeper wider sounstage, a more realistic
Instrument timbre, deeper better textured bass, better dynamic swing and more
Details that i have never heard before from a recordings.
Different flavor? I dont think so.
Post by: accastil on Apr 20, 2021 at 08:26 PM
I have 2 sets of speaker cables right now. Audience 24sx and transparent referencea cheaper way of doing it is through the jumper wires, assuming that the speaker offers biwire capability. however, the sound difference in this approach may not be easily discernable especially if the jumpers in comparison doesnt have a day and night sort of difference.
Gen. 5. The reference gen. 5 is twice and a half more expensive than the 24sx,
What improved? Lower noise floor, deeper wider sounstage, a more realistic
Instrument timbre, deeper better textured bass, better dynamic swing and more
Details that i have never heard before from a recordings.
Different flavor? I dont think so.
im using 4 pairs, 2 has a very dull/laidback/rolled off sound while the other pair has a very bright/analytical/forward sound. ......you can actually mix and match for fun :)
Post by: accastil on Apr 20, 2021 at 08:27 PM
I agree that wine and beer improves the audio quality ... pero mas matindi maka-improve ng audio quality yung may nagsasayaw sa stage then biglang mag-i-split, walang sinabi expensive cable ... pauwi ka na naaalala mo pa yung music ... LOL :) :) :)
ano yan bro, paulit ulit lang yung track ng "careless whisper"? LOL.
Post by: stevesonk on Apr 21, 2021 at 02:02 AM
talagang it really works while dancing "it really hurts" ^-^
Post by: Nelson de Leon on Apr 21, 2021 at 02:29 AM
Cables make a difference in sound in my experience, to the point that they can make or break your setup. Cables can either throttle or unlock the SQ of your system.
You can be perfectly happy with the sound of your system, not knowing that the SQ is being held back severely by a certain cable. And you can't know that until you try a different cable in your system. When you do, there will certainly be a change in sound but whether that change is for the better, for the worse, or sideways depends on the individual listener. If it's for the better, then it's up to the system owner to decide if the price delta is worth paying.
If you hear no difference when you change a cable, most likely your gear just isn't resolving enough. Then you're better off spending on better gear than on more expensive cables.
Pwedeng held back, pwedeng the new cable added color to your system kaya bumagay, and yeah minsan perceived change in sound sometimes means improvement in our ears.
Post by: stevesonk on Jul 15, 2021 at 11:23 PM
Post by: tony on Jul 16, 2021 at 06:49 AM
Post by: stevesonk on Aug 08, 2021 at 01:00 PM
ung powercord na no filtration o with noise filtration? effective ba un?(from avr to conditioner) ksi mag filter din nman ung power conditioner going to cord at gears..