Author Topic: Do branded cables really make a difference? (Read 20644 times)

Chiekotz · « **on:** Jul 05, 2013 at 06:30 PM »

I have been brushing up on my audio literature and it brought me to the topic about cables.

Kindly correct me if I'm wrong in what i read or my misunderstanding is flawed

For speaker cables, there are 2 types

1. Shielded
2. Unshielded

A lot of people want the unshielded.

Now for RCA, people do recommend shielded.

Frankly im confused. Also, do branded cables make a difference? A fine example would be Monster and Stinger RCA cables.

meat_eater · « **Reply #1 on:** Jul 05, 2013 at 06:34 PM »

brace yourself for WORD WAR C (cables)....

hehehehe..... Some swear by it, some think its placebo....

edboy7 · « **Reply #2 on:** Jul 05, 2013 at 06:38 PM »

this was taken up years ago hahahahahaha...pwede pa nga daw maski sampayan ng gamitin mo e hahahahaha...i think it the thread is just there somewhere hidden! LOL

fattyacid · « **Reply #3 on:** Jul 05, 2013 at 07:43 PM »

My question here is, are there engineers here that believe that cables make a night and day difference?

raider125jeigh · « **Reply #4 on:** Jul 05, 2013 at 07:50 PM »

speaker cables......

on my experience yes...
more DB

Tempter · « **Reply #5 on:** Jul 05, 2013 at 07:57 PM »

Yes if the mumurahing cable is Guage 30 up (meron b non??

)

and the branded one is Guage 16 down...

In short, wala sa branded o non-branded, nasa thickness ng copper wire...

ATJr. · « **Reply #6 on:** Jul 05, 2013 at 08:04 PM »

Quote from: fattyacid on Jul 05, 2013 at 07:43 PM

My question here is, are there engineers here that believe that cables make a night and day difference?

depends....if you are a believer then yes, if non-believer then no...
it doesn't really matter what every one thinks or say...
what matters is the one using the cables,
if you are happy with your cable, then i am happy for you...

chiryu18 · « **Reply #7 on:** Jul 05, 2013 at 10:07 PM »

I'm not really a cable believer but there was a time when I was auditioning the Aons on Mly and got curious with the QED revelation speaker cables and I ask if we can try it, so we changed the cable from silver anniversary to revelation no other settings were changed. We tried to play the same track again then my wife who was playing with her tablet suddenly said "Uy maganda yan anung speaker gamit?" I also notice the big change in the sound before my wife reacted.

Rule of the thumb: try it but if you can't hear any difference then don't buy it.

One thing I like about branded cables is their build quality. There is no need to buy an expensive cable if you can't hear the difference and you can also get a good quality cable for less the price.

Some people also buy expensive cables just to bling their setup. Cheers!

jh@meeh · « **Reply #8 on:** Jul 05, 2013 at 10:20 PM »

The thing is you don't need to buy a 1000 dollar speaker cable if your speakers are worth a 1000 dollar too...right

? Just save 5 to 10 percent budget for your speaker cable based on your speaker budget.
Don't go crazy with cables, be practical..at the end of the day, its your money.
If you go with science, lots of people will say cables are cables...

...just use monoprice cables 14 or 12 awg pure copper and your done...

If you want boutique cables, better buy a second hand if available...

defcon3 · « **Reply #9 on:** Jul 05, 2013 at 10:34 PM »

for me, yes, cables/ic's makes differences, branded or not.

mix and match lang yan, even if you have the most expensive and branded cables and it doesn't match your set up, useless....opinion ko lang po yan at experience na din....

mangboy · « **Reply #10 on:** Jul 05, 2013 at 10:59 PM »

Yes try mo bro

pero nakakakulam yan he he he

edwin · « **Reply #11 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 12:29 AM »

I am a big believer of cables. Yes they do make a difference but that difference may or may not be an improvement depending on your system or the sound that you are looking for.

Just today, i was listening to a shop here with a set-up costing maybe more than half a million peso. My officemate was auditioning an Acrolink 6N and 7N model digital cable. Both of the design is the same and the only difference was the purity of the cable. We don't need to strain listening and the 7N was the clear winner.

With this experience, just with that one cable (the 6N model), it had brought down the performance of that expensive set-up.

My advice, always have an open mind. There are a lot of things that is very hard to explain in audio, but from there, it could make a simple system sound like a mega buck system.

edwn1220 · « **Reply #12 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 12:46 AM »

There are several extensive discussions about speaker wires in the past. Here's two of them:

http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,54618.0.html
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,39268.0.html

Gino · « **Reply #13 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 01:06 AM »

Oh boy...

ATJr. · « **Reply #14 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 06:49 AM »

sana hindi na maulit...

as long as no one tells another, "you should buy this cable"

then we are okey....

i consider the speakers still the weakest link in any system,
it has the most potential to be deal maker of breaker...

panzimus · « **Reply #15 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 06:56 AM »

Yes, cables make a difference. it is more noticable if revealing yung speakers mo. (granted na maganda ang source ng music mo ha) i don't believe on it before but mula nung nasubukan ko, never looked back. actually sa headphones ko siya naconfirm na they do make a difference. and yun nga, since revealing sa details yung headphone ko, narinig ko agad difference. different types of cables have their own characteristics thus matching plays a big role if it will improve the sound or not. (we all know naman na mahalaga talaga ang matching ng gears)

Chiekotz · « **Reply #16 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 07:58 AM »

Thanks for the information guys. I appreciate it.

Chiekotz · « **Reply #17 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 08:04 AM »

Quote from: chiryu18 on Jul 05, 2013 at 10:07 PM

I'm not really a cable believer but there was a time when I was auditioning the Aons on Mly and got curious with the QED revelation speaker cables and I ask if we can try it, so we changed the cable from silver anniversary to revelation no other settings were changed. We tried to play the same track again then my wife who was playing with her tablet suddenly said "Uy maganda yan anung speaker gamit?" I also notice the big change in the sound before my wife reacted.

Rule of the thumb: try it but if you can't hear any difference then don't buy it.

One thing I like about branded cables is their build quality. There is no need to buy an expensive cable if you can't hear the difference and you can also get a good quality cable for less the price.

Some people also buy expensive cables just to bling their setup. Cheers!

Good call, i think i need to bring a friend with me. Sometimes kasi its just placebo.

panzimus · « **Reply #18 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 08:14 AM »

if you'll test cables, be sure to use your own test tracks. mas kabisado mo na kasi yung song and already know what specific parts of the song ang maiiba if ever may difference.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #19 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 08:45 AM »

Quote from: panzimus on Jul 06, 2013 at 08:14 AM

if you'll test cables, be sure to use your own test tracks. mas kabisado mo na kasi yung song and already know what specific parts of the song ang maiiba if ever may difference.

And make sure blind A/B test para walang placebo effect.

Here's a short summary from the previous thread re cables.

If you cannot hear the difference, then you are lucky because di ka na kailangan magpalit constantly ng cables.
If the difference is audible for you, happy hunting na lang!

JojoD818 · « **Reply #20 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 09:13 AM »

Monster and Stinger... this is like wearing a sign saying "shoot me"...

Quote from: fattyacid on Jul 05, 2013 at 07:43 PM

My question here is, are there engineers here that believe that cables make a night and day difference?

I bet you are assuming that as an engineer, that person is bound by his/her knowledge of the science behind the flow of electrons and thus will offer a more scientific explanation rather than a subjective one.

Quote from: Chiekotz on Jul 05, 2013 at 06:30 PM

I have been brushing up on my audio literature and it brought me to the topic about cables.

Kindly correct me if I'm wrong in what i read or my misunderstanding is flawed

For speaker cables, there are 2 types

1. Shielded
2. Unshielded

A lot of people want the unshielded.

Now for RCA, people do recommend shielded.

Frankly im confused. Also, do branded cables make a difference? A fine example would be Monster and Stinger RCA cables.

Ok let's answer the obvious. If you are indeed brushing on your audio literature then you should already know the reason why people (1) choose unshielded for their speaker wires and (2) use shielded wires for their RCA interconnects. Otherwise, you are not doing your home work so here it is.

Speaker wires don't need to be shielded. Why? Because the amount of voltage and the degree of current is so huge that minute noise signals cannot "contaminate" it. Signal to noise ratio is only inherent to what the original signal already have so it is just a waste of money to use shielded speaker wires.

RCA interconnects needs to be shielded as a way of protecting the integrity of the small, millivolt level signals that pass through. Make no mistake of thinking though that unshielded RCA interconnects can not be used, they can.

Now here's the kicker (remember fattyacid's post for engineers). Shielding is commonly done by braiding multiple strands of copper or silver wires to cover the inner conductor of the wire and "shield" it from the outside, much like those LPG hoses. To make the shielding effective, this braided wires are connected to ground to shunt any common mode noise via ground. Unfortunately, there is a phenomenon known as "skin effect" where electrons prefer to travel on the outside or "skin" of the conductor, this phenomena plus the multiple strands used in braiding the shield promotes a capacitive effect in the wire. The longer the wire, the higher the capacitance. You will see this in wire specifications as picofarads per foot (pf/ft). This capacitance now will interact with your amp/preamp input section and form what is called a 1st order low pass filter where you lose a great range of frequencies in the higher region of the frequency spectrum.

There now, I hope that helps you in further understanding the intricacies of this hobby.

Chiekotz · « **Reply #21 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 10:40 AM »

Quote from: JojoD818 on Jul 06, 2013 at 09:13 AM

Monster and Stinger... this is like wearing a sign saying "shoot me"...

I bet you are assuming that as an engineer, that person is bound by his/her knowledge of the science behind the flow of electrons and thus will offer a more scientific explanation rather than a subjective one.

Ok let's answer the obvious. If you are indeed brushing on your audio literature then you should already know the reason why people (1) choose unshielded for their speaker wires and (2) use shielded wires for their RCA interconnects. Otherwise, you are not doing your home work so here it is.

Speaker wires don't need to be shielded. Why? Because the amount of voltage and the degree of current is so huge that minute noise signals cannot "contaminate" it. Signal to noise ratio is only inherent to what the original signal already have so it is just a waste of money to use shielded speaker wires.

RCA interconnects needs to be shielded as a way of protecting the integrity of the small, millivolt level signals that pass through. Make no mistake of thinking though that unshielded RCA interconnects can not be used, they can.

Now here's the kicker (remember fattyacid's post for engineers). Shielding is commonly done by braiding multiple strands of copper or silver wires to cover the inner conductor of the wire and "shield" it from the outside, much like those LPG hoses. To make the shielding effective, this braided wires are connected to ground to shunt any common mode noise via ground. Unfortunately, there is a phenomenon known as "skin effect" where electrons prefer to travel on the outside or "skin" of the conductor, this phenomena plus the multiple strands used in braiding the shield promotes a capacitive effect in the wire. The longer the wire, the higher the capacitance. You will see this in wire specifications as picofarads per foot (pf/ft). This capacitance now will interact with your amp/preamp input section and form what is called a 1st order low pass filter where you lose a great range of frequencies in the higher region of the frequency spectrum.

There now, I hope that helps you in further understanding the intricacies of this hobby.

Thank you so much Jojo.

This is the link where i found it

http://www.mediacollege.com/forum/showthread.php?1388-Speaker-Wire-Shielded-Versus-Unshielded

and based on whats written there, i think they are talking about mobile sound systems because they mentioned XLR cables which i know they use for concerts and stuff.

ATJr. · « **Reply #22 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 10:58 AM »

i have used shielded wires on my speakers....no big deal there....

cables are just copper and plastic, what you make of it is entirely up to you....

as long as you hook them up correctly, then no problemo...

cables really make a difference....in the megahertz region, where their characteristic impedance shows....
for audio, it is entirely up to you to enjoy.....

as a heads up, make sure your speaker cables are tight in the binding posts...i had an amp that i almost replaced the output transformer, when all the while the problem was just a loose fitting speaker cable....

markcrenz · « **Reply #23 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 11:16 AM »

Quote from: edwn1220 on Jul 06, 2013 at 12:46 AM

There are several extensive discussions about speaker wires in the past. Here's two of them:

http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,54618.0.html
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,39268.0.html

ang ganda ng reply ni av_phile1

Quote from: av_phile1 on Oct 25, 2005 at 02:13 PM

As hobbyists, we should learn to distinguish between facts and personal opinions. Between serious scienctific truths and laughable hearsay. If you are influenced on the say so of friends and bogus advertising materials that claim figures in what are called "pseudo-science,' that's your call. Manufacturers of exotic expensive cables do cite terms like "skin effect," "strand jumping," "dielectric absorption effects," "transmission line effect," and even the very mundane capacitance, inductance and resistance figures in their wares to impress even techno geeks. In many ways, most of these effects have a bearing on cable design, like those used in industrial applications that carry mega and gigahertz frequencies. But NOTHING AUDIBLE WHATSOVER when applied to frequencies in the audio spectrum that matters to human beings.

Human hearing already has difficulty discerning a 1 db difference for PURE tone signals. How much more for 0.1db differences above 16khz? That's often the region where some of the effects of high inductance and capacitance in cables can be attained. And when MASKED by other frequencies in a complex musical signal, you begin to wonder if audible differences can be correctly identified. While it is true that differenet cable qualities can affect the carriage of frequencies, so far, no bias-controlled Double Blind Testing has ever affirmed to any statistical degree of confidence and accuracy that audible differences exists between cables to justify spending 100 times on exotic cables.

There is great irony here. People who finally can afford a Bryston or a Theta have often achieved some social status in life to afford these gears. They're often in their 30s and 40s - right about that time when their ears can't hear above 17khz. I must say these people are often the ones who can afford to buy expensives cables and claim to hear differences. Ironically, they really can't hear anything above 17khz where the effects of different cables should be more manifest. So there's probably some wisdom to the argument that the perceived differences are really more psychological than anything. Knowledge about the price and brand can and do influence human perceptions. Obviously, the power of suggestion works on the side of exotic cable manufacturers so they can laugh all the way to the bank at our expense. Just my thoughts.

ultimatedls · « **Reply #24 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 01:30 PM »

pachex, ok na ang monoprice. meron ako extra monoprice speaker cables bigyan nalang kita pero sa IC pagawa ka nalang. ako im using VDH C5.

defcon3 · « **Reply #25 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 01:45 PM »

Quote from: ultimatedls on Jul 06, 2013 at 01:30 PM

pachex, ok na ang monoprice. meron ako extra monoprice speaker cables bigyan nalang kita pero sa IC pagawa ka nalang. ako im using VDH C5.

isa sa mga mababait na member ng pdvd......

Verbl Kint · « **Reply #26 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 02:17 PM »

Quote from: Chiekotz on Jul 05, 2013 at 06:30 PM

I have been brushing up on my audio literature and it brought me to the topic about cables.

Kindly correct me if I'm wrong in what i read or my misunderstanding is flawed

For speaker cables, there are 2 types

1. Shielded
2. Unshielded

A lot of people want the unshielded.

Now for RCA, people do recommend shielded.

Frankly im confused. Also, do branded cables make a difference? A fine example would be Monster and Stinger RCA cables.

Three words:

Double Blind Test

panzimus · « **Reply #27 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 03:00 PM »

If we will test the theory na different cables have different effects sa music, i'm willing to provide the materials for testing but it would be for headphones. Mas madali gawing controlled environment since mas konti ang gears to connect. Its about the cable naman and its relation to sound di ba?

ultimatedls · « **Reply #28 on:** Jul 06, 2013 at 03:20 PM »

Quote from: defcon3 on Jul 06, 2013 at 01:45 PM

isa sa mga mababait na member ng pdvd......

naku brader hindi naman tropa ko kasi ito TS and ako n si carlo nambuyo sa kanya kaya support nalang. Ikaw parin ang mabait still enjoying yon pasalubong mo sakin. Hopefully soon makapag upgrade ulit matagal tagal na din di gumagalaw ang setup ko eh.

defcon3 · « **Reply #29 on:** Jul 07, 2013 at 03:48 AM »

Quote from: ultimatedls on Jul 06, 2013 at 03:20 PM

naku brader hindi naman tropa ko kasi ito TS and ako n si carlo nambuyo sa kanya kaya support nalang. Ikaw parin ang mabait still enjoying yon pasalubong mo sakin. Hopefully soon makapag upgrade ulit matagal tagal na din di gumagalaw ang setup ko eh.

patay tayo dyan....hehehe...baka maniwala sila sa pasalubong ko kunwari sa iyo...hahaha.....