Topic: Plasma vs LCD ?

[barrister]

Japan's New Flat Screens: The Eco-Friendly TV
By Coco Masters / Tokyo Tuesday, Mar. 17, 2009


A man looks at Panasonic flat-screen TVs in Tokyo on Feb. 2, 2009

Most people use their eyes to judge the best flat-screen televisions. Michiyuki Sugino, deputy general manager of audiovisual systems for Sharp, says people should also use their hands. Touch an ordinary set and you'll feel the heat given off by electronic components at work. This warmth is energy that is being wasted, Sugino says, and for consumers, hot spots mean higher electric bills. But lay your hands on one of Sharp's new 32-in. D Series Aquos TVs: "The biggest surprise for consumers is when they touch the TV front and back," says Sugino. "It's cool. They can feel the difference."

But will they care? Japan's leading consumer-electronics companies sure hope so. The global recession is weakening demand for LCD and plasma TVs. This means Sharp, Panasonic and Sony are desperate to defend their market shares and are racing to come up with features to distinguish their products from those of their competitors. The marketing catchphrase in Japan is now "eco-TV": flat-screen sets that, like the new Sharp Aquos, are environmentally friendlier because they use less energy and cost less to run. "[Eco-functions] are a premium that consumers will pay for," says Emi Nagahara, a product planner for Sony's TV business group. "It will be a standard" for all LCD TVs, she predicts.

Using a variety of technological tweaks, manufacturers are achieving substantial power savings with no sacrifice in performance and picture quality. Sony, which entered the eco-TV market last summer, developed a more efficient backlight for its new Bravia VE5 series that uses nearly 40% less energy than conventional LCD TVs. Further gains are made through additional features, including a sensor that halves the energy the TV uses by turning off the screen when no motion is detected nearby. The sets are also equipped with a light sensor that adjusts the backlight to ambient room light and with an energy-saving switch that cuts all power to the set as if it were unplugged. (Even when turned off, conventional sets waste small amounts of electricity if left plugged in.)

Other manufacturers are launching green TVs of their own. This month, Panasonic — the No. 1 maker of plasma TVs, with a 40% share of that market worldwide — started selling in Japan its 42-in. Viera V series plasma set, which uses 48% less power than the product line's previous generation. On Feb. 20, Sharp launched its Aquos D Series in Japan, which uses 45% less energy than last year's model. Cool to the touch, this model has improved power-saving components, including a modified backlight. (See the 50 best inventions of 2008.)

It's far from certain that buyers, accustomed to judging flat-screen TVs by picture quality, thinness and screen size, will be willing to pay more for eco-TVs. Koya Tabata, consumer-electronics analyst at Credit Suisse in Tokyo, argues that Japanese consumers are increasingly concerned not only with sticker prices but also with operating costs. "I used to have a 50-in. Pioneer plasma TV," says Tabata. "It was our heater in the winter." But because of higher energy prices and more households owning two or three TVs, electricity consumption matters more than it once did. About 10% of energy used in the home goes to power TVs; an eco-TV can make a dent in the electric bill. For example, the Panasonic V model consumes 200 kW-h, down from 386 kW-h for the preceding generation; that reduction could save the average Japanese household about $41 a year, according to Panasonic. Amid the recession, buyers "are concerned about consumption and running cost," says Tabata.

For power-saving TVs to catch on, "we have to develop technology that can improve the eco-function but hopefully won't increase the cost," says Hirofumi Wada, general manager of Panasonic's visual and display business group. That's no mean feat. Profit margins are under severe pressure during the global recession, and Japanese electronics companies are reporting big losses even as they close factories and lay off workers. Worldwide unit sales of LCD TVs are up about 10% over last year, but revenues are down about 5% because companies continue to slash prices to move sets, according to Jeremy Tonkin, a retail analyst with CLSA, a Hong Kong-based brokerage house. A report by Nikko Citigroup analyst Kota Ezawa says that prices for flat-panel TVs will continue to decline in the U.S. through March and that makers will probably lower prices further this year to clear out inventory. Manufacturers expect overall prices will fall 20% over the next two years. "The Japanese consumer is spending," says Tonkin, but "consumers want to buy something cheaper."

In flat-screen TVs, two trends seem assured: prices will continue to fall and sets will get greener. Over the next few years, advances in display technologies promise even more dramatic power savings. Sony's OLED-screen TVs (which save energy by using a technology that, unlike LCDs, does not require a backlight) and Mitsubishi's LaserVue (based on lasers that use half the energy of LCDs) are moving toward mass commercialization. Credit Suisse's Tabata says there's still lots of room to reduce both power and cost. "We've got a long ways to go," says Sugino of Sharp. "It's difficult, but we have to do it." In a few years, eco-TVs may really be cool.

[milken]

World's first LCD TV in 21:9 cinema format

Most movies are in 16:9 format with an aspect ratio of 1.78:1, but with an aspect ratio of 2,35:1 (Cinemascope) produces. If they are on a normal flat screen TV, so he is either with black bars at the top and bottom of the screen displayed or the image will be trimmed laterally. For an uncompromising cinema experience in your living room provides Philips with the Cinema 21:9 is now a first special LCD-TV movie with an aspect ratio of 2,37:1 before.  The screen has a diagonal of 56 inches or 1.41 meters.  This results in a width of 1.3 meters and a height of 56 centimeters.  The resolution is 2560 × 1080 pixels thus amounted to about 2.7 megapixels.

In the television comes a more sophisticated Perfect Pixel HD chip to use, including the necessary scaling of PAL, HD or Full HD screen resolution to make. Further technical details - whether the approximately 21:9 Cinema with 100-Hz or 200 Hz technology will be - will the producers do not initially disclose.  One thing is certain, however, that the first model, no LED backlight, but a conventional backlight with CCFL lamps (CCFL) will hold. Further technical details will gradually Philips to set up an extra web publishing.

The screen is surrounded on three sides of the background light that is controlled by separate LEDs is generated, which are individually Done adjust the picture. It will intensify the viewing experience.

Philips AV equipment
According to Philips Cinema 21:9 is an IP facility offer. In order to 16:9 in the normal operation of the entire TV screen size to use, there is a sort of panorama mode. It remains the center of the picture remains largely unchanged, the site will be considered in the width. Suitable for TV, Philips offers an IP system with receiver and Blu-ray player. The receiver is a special 21:9-hold mode. This makes it possible, even when Cinemascope films subtitle einzublenden, without addressing the 21:9-fullscreen renounce them.

The TV is in the 2nd Quarter of this year in the trade. The price has not yet been fixed.

Source: http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=&hl=de&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2FWeltweit-erster-LCD-Fernseher-im-21-9-Kinoformat--%2Fmeldung%2F121637&sl=de&tl=en

[Carlo777]

I smoked up a lingering thought when it comes to this thing we call Plasma vs LCD...Sony vs Samsung...Panasonic vs Toshiba etc,etc.

My best buddy and I went shopping for his 1st flat panel and looked at a few T.V's - A fair mix of Plasma and LCD. Below were his comments and the emoticons after his comments were my reactions to them.

Panny PV80:

Comment niya and I quote "Parang CRT na pinalaki at hindi sumabog yung pic...eto ba yung mga 1st hd T.V?"

Panny PY800:

Comment: "Parang malabo...too soft...mas malinaw pa ata vega ko dyan"

Sammy A650

Comment: "Sheesssshhh...it's like a flash light in my face...ayaw...ayaw"

Hitachi (Forgot the model number)

I found it to be the the weakess (in-terms of picture quality - atleat for me) of all the units we saw - Not that it was bad, but comparing it to the units mentioned above - it dwarfed in comparison (in-terms of tech specs).

Here is the comment: "Maganda ...parang eto na!"

A discussion followed...

Me: "Pre the colors are a bit pale"
My Buddy: "Pale? Nah, it looks natural"
Me: "Look at the plasma - yan ang natural"
My Buddy: "Natural? It looks blacky"
Me: "That's a sign of a good black level"
My Buddy: "It's a sign that it looks dark"

We walked out and moved to a nearby shop with CRT T.V's still on display and he said to me..."pre parang mas type ko pa din yung CRT"(sigh). We'll go to our local "forum friendly" shop later and I'm starting to feel that it will be a long day shopping with the bum.

The lingering thought:

It's nice to listen to comments of people who are not familiar with the technology that drives our flat panels. They are unbiased, very innocent and sometimes truthful. They don't give jack about resolutions, contrast ratios, motion flow, and the like...and I feel some of them may end up being genuinely happy with their purchase, despite the apparent lack of technical knowledge. Why? Because they fully trusted their eyes and not some piece of glossy paper with fine numbers they may never even give a darn about. It's still a very big "may" for me because having a little knowledge will definitely yield an educated decision for your hard earned cash and I will always encourage people to "read up" before the plunge...but it's a refreshing thought

[barrister]

That's a refreshing viewpoint.  Many new shoppers really don't want to hear about specs, which can understandably be annoying rather than interesting.

Good buddy trusted his eyes, but remember that performance changes with different program material and room lighting.  How would they look like with SD DVD in a dark room?  Until he sees the TV with his own program material in his own room, I can't say that he has really seen it.

It's true that they will be genuinely happy with their purchase, but the question is, for how long? 

A new CRT is great, until you notice that the screen is just too small.  A new LCD has a beautiful picture, until you notice the uneven black levels.  A new plasma is fabulous, until you notice the green phosphor lag ...   


Research is important; but on the other hand, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, said Alexander Pope, who originally put it this way:

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again." (Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism, 1709)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierian_Spring


Either drink deep, or don't taste it at all.   

[Carlo777]

That's a refreshing viewpoint.  Many new shoppers really don't want to hear about specs, which can understandably be annoying rather than interesting.

Good buddy trusted his eyes, but remember that performance changes with different program material and room lighting.  How would they look like with SD DVD in a dark room?  Until he sees the TV with his own program material in his own room, I can't say that he has really seen it.

It's true that they will be genuinely happy with their purchase, but the question is, for how long? 

A new CRT is great, until you notice that the screen is just too small.  A new LCD has a beautiful picture, until you notice the uneven black levels.  A new plasma is fabulous, until you notice the green phosphor lag ...   


Research is important; but on the other hand, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, said Alexander Pope, who originally put it this way:

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again." (Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism, 1709)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierian_Spring


Either drink deep, or don't taste it at all.   

Yeah^

Anyway, like I said it was just a refreshing thought. I'm off to the U.S next week for a short vacation but what really makes me giddy is the idea of checking out those new Panny plasma models. Hope they're not too pretty for my wallets sake

I'll do a quick impression of them as soon as possible and compare them with our 2008 models like the PV8/80 and 800.

[Invinciible]

That's a refreshing viewpoint.  Many new shoppers really don't want to hear about specs, which can understandably be annoying rather than interesting.

Good buddy trusted his eyes, but remember that performance changes with different program material and room lighting.  How would they look like with SD DVD in a dark room?  Until he sees the TV with his own program material in his own room, I can't say that he has really seen it.

It's true that they will be genuinely happy with their purchase, but the question is, for how long? 

A new CRT is great, until you notice that the screen is just too small.  A new LCD has a beautiful picture, until you notice the uneven black levels.  A new plasma is fabulous, until you notice the green phosphor lag ...   


Research is important; but on the other hand, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, said Alexander Pope, who originally put it this way:

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again." (Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism, 1709)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierian_Spring


Either drink deep, or don't taste it at all.   

"Ignorance is bliss" 

[mart]

Hello mga boss, I would be very biased to say that plasma is the best. My daughter and I are dvd fanatics, and I can say
that plasma really suited our needs. Btw, my unit is 42pv80.

[Carlo777]

"Ignorance is bliss" 

  Yeah sometimes it works to your advantage^

[barrister]

I'm off to the U.S next week for a short vacation but what really makes me giddy is the idea of checking out those new Panny plasma models. Hope they're not too pretty for my wallets sake

Bon voyage!

... And don't forget to check out the Oppo DVD players! 

[T33K0Y]

Yeah^

Anyway, like I said it was just a refreshing thought. I'm off to the U.S next week for a short vacation but what really makes me giddy is the idea of checking out those new Panny plasma models. Hope they're not too pretty for my wallets sake

I'll do a quick impression of them as soon as possible and compare them with our 2008 models like the PV8/80 and 800.

As always, we'll wait for your review, sir  

Happy trip!  

[ninjababez®]

As always, we'll wait for your review, sir  

Happy trip!  

hahaha sabi ko na eh 
have a safe trip bro! 

[ABCmotorparts]

I went out Window shopping yesterday,
went to Abenson's Cabanatuan, and took a walk unto their display area,
was able to observe a couple wanting to get a new LCD TV,
I went closer to hear the salesman's pitch and sweet talk,
well, he keeps telling the couple that the LCD is the "only" way to go nowadays
coz of its appearance and "affordability", and I over heard the wife saying na ang ganda naman nyan,
ganyan din ba ang magiging kulay at sharpness nyan kung sa DVD lang namin ilalagay...?
The salesman replied, yes mam, yan na po ang linaw ng TV na yan, magbago man po yan ay bahagya lang naman, kasi po HD po ang source nitong ginagamit natin dito sa display.

 

I guess, maliit na percentage pa rin ng population natin ang nagreresearch at nagtatanong tanung muna bago bumili ng isang gamit. Actually this is not the first time na may narinig at nakita ako na ganito ang sales talk nila, and ako mismo ang nanghihinayang sa ipambibili nila, not that its my business of course,
but for that price, I could get a much decent, much BIGGER flat TV, may sukli pa ako,...

Plasma may be a dying breed, but for as long as may nabibili pa, I would still continue to promote
it and support it, but heck, that's just me...

Cheers 

[Carlo777]

Bon voyage!

... And don't forget to check out the Oppo DVD players! 

OT: Sure, I thought with the XDE500 I won't need to look at the Oppo brand but after buying the Tosh player today. I think I'd still need to check Oppo out.

@ninja&t33k0y

Thanks guys

[ricky]

OT: Sure, I thought with the XDE500 I won't need to look at the Oppo brand but after buying the Tosh player today. I think I'd still need to check Oppo out.

@ninja&t33k0y

Thanks guys

 

[frootloops]

  + 

[Carlo777]

Bon voyage!

... And don't forget to check out the Oppo DVD players! 

Btw, we purchased 2 LCD's today my buddy got a Philips 42PFL9532 and a Sony 32W400. We're happy with the Philips - For a unit that use to sell for around 100k nakuha namin at 75k lalang. The performance was not shabby at all, biggest surprise! Ang ganda, I should have seen this unit before baka eto lalang yung binili ko over the A650

I'm thinking of getting rid of our sharp and the Toshiba to buy this.

[blued888]

Better LCD ang alam ko sa Plasma ay nag-uubos na lang ng stocks kasi they are using Phosporous at may hindi magandang side effect ito and mas malakas sa kuryente. What I am using is LCD LG and I got a 50 resolution which is very much compatible sa aking digital TV. Sa abroad, wala na masyadong nagtitinda nyan.

(Taken from another forum)

I am really surprised at what people say, just to bash plasma displays when they still clearly beat out LCDs in terms of picture quality. Yes, LED-backlit LCDs are catching up, but still not really in the realm of plasmas.

Plus, ano kaya yung ibig sabihin niya sa bolded sentence? Hindi ko naintindihan eh.

[milken]

Using a watt-meter, I can't believe my Panasonic 50PV80 only uses an average of 25W power consumption.  The reading constantly fluctuates depending on the scene...lowest is 15W usually when viewing cable tv and the highest peak I saw (not constant) is 250W for some scenes.  By the way, my unit is rated 500W.  Weird. 

[sardaukar]

^ If I may ask, what's the power consumption with the TV on but with no signal (like hdmi1 but the player is not on), and what's the consumption if on standby?

[barrister]

Better LCD ang alam ko sa Plasma ay nag-uubos na lang ng stocks kasi they are using Phosporous at may hindi magandang side effect ito and mas malakas sa kuryente. What I am using is LCD LG and I got a 50 resolution which is very much compatible sa aking digital TV. Sa abroad, wala na masyadong nag***nda nyan.

(Taken from another forum)

I am really surprised at what people say, just to bash plasma displays when they still clearly beat out LCDs in terms of picture quality. Yes, LED-backlit LCDs are catching up, but still not really in the realm of plasmas.

Plus, ano kaya yung ibig sabihin niya sa bolded sentence? Hindi ko naintindihan eh.

I didn't get it either ... 



Isa pa, sabi niya plasma are using PHOSPHOROUS daw.

He uses the word as a noun.  He should have written "phosphorus".  Phosphorus is the noun.  When used as an adjective, it's spelled Phosphorous.

Pero kahit "phosphorus" ang sinulat niya, mali pa rin.  Dapat "phosphor" ang spelling.

Phosphorus is the chemical element with atomic number 15.  Phosphor means a phosphorescent substance.  He meant "phosphor".

Ewan ko ba naman dun sa iba, nasa harap na nga ng mukha nila ang internet, ayaw pang mag research.   Kung wala siyang time mag-research, OK din naman yon ...  Basta huwag lang siyang magmamarunong ...   

[ninjababez®]

Using a watt-meter, I can't believe my Panasonic 50PV80 only uses an average of 25W power consumption.  The reading constantly fluctuates depending on the scene...lowest is 15W usually when viewing cable tv and the highest peak I saw (not constant) is 250W for some scenes.  By the way, my unit is rated 500W.  Weird. 

from blued888

I just thought of something, since many of use were able to acquire a digital watt-meter from RXV, maybe we can start a list of common A/V gears and their corresponding actual power consumption?

Maybe list down standby, in use (estimated average), and peak ratings?

I'll start and will continuously add as I test other gear.

Brand/Model	Standby	In Use (Average)	Peak
Yamaha RX-V663 Receiver	40W (unit on, no volume)	60W	85W
Elemental Designs A2-300 Subwoofer	13W (unit on, no input)	40W to 50W	135W
LG 32PC5RA (Custom setting)	15W	50W to 70W	120W
LG 32PC5RA (Game setting)	15W	65W to 80W	135W

Cite operating conditions you have used for equipment if applicable. Make multiple entries for multiple settings (i.e. for TVs, standard, dynamic, cinema, etc).

Yamaha RX-V663:
In use volume at -13.0dB, reference calibrated volume at -3.0dB.
0W when unit is powered down.
40W when unit is on, no volume.

LG 32PC5RA:
In use custom setting, 70 contrast, 50 everything else.

[Clondalkin]

Di naman pala ganon ka-impressive ang kanipisan ng 1" Plasma ng Panasonic.  Mataba pa rin compared to OLED.   

And unless you like it gray and kanto-kanto look, parang mas maganda ang bezel design ng intermediate model.

[Clondalkin]

^ If I may ask, what's the power consumption with the TV on but with no signal (like hdmi1 but the player is not on), and what's the consumption if on standby?

Standby as in naka-plug lang sa power outlet?  Newer Panasonic plasmas (including yours) would consume barely 0.1W under that mode.  Kaso, if you're using line conditioners, AVRs, UPS etc., yung ang pampalakas ng kuryente if you don't unplug sa Philippines.

[sardaukar]

Yes that's what I mean, pag nakasaksak lang. I was hoping for independent confirmation from someone with a wattmeter sana. I'm still in the habit kasi of turning off the power switch (from a power strip) to my devices at night. Nakasanayan na.

[frootloops]

Same here bro sardaukar, but mine has a cut-off switch pa before the AVRs and UPS so kahit nakasaksak sa outlet when turned off wala talaga kuryente pumapasok. Namana ko sa tatay ko...

[ninjababez®]

Same here bro sardaukar, but mine has a cut-off switch pa before the AVRs and UPS so kahit nakasaksak sa outlet when turned off wala talaga kuryente pumapasok. Namana ko sa tatay ko...

you mean this one bro
 

[Carlo777]

Bon voyage!

... And don't forget to check out the Oppo DVD players! 

I was not able to look at the players, hindi ako nakasama, but my wife was able to check out the new panny models!

Yun lang ang tagal ng verification e-mail that's why she could not post yet.

[wunder9]

My brother-in-law asked me to help him find a flat panel tv. We ended up choosing between pana 42LZ80 & 42PV80. I preferred the LZ80 LCD. It was perfect for me:1080p full hd, nice blacks without black crush of details in shadowed scenes, very good colors, excellent for pc monitor/hidef viewing, etc. But my needs are different from his & he got PV80 instead which is cheaper.

[Carlo777]

you mean this one bro
 

That looks neat!

Can you buy that here?

[cHess]

Yes sir. It is widely available in electronics/DIY shops.