Author Topic: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)  (Read 15562 times)

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Offline Quitacet

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #60 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 04:48 PM »
never in recent memory have i heard anyone from the RC church mention that only catholics will be saved..
in all the masses i have been to, it was never mentioned....
if you are attending masses, you will know the doctrine of the church being recited in the mass itself...

whoever wrote that only catholics will be saved must be lunatics....
salvation is open to all that recognized Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour,
the Messiah that is the only true path to our Father in Heaven...

That is why Catholics do not know that is a doctrine of RC.

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #61 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 04:52 PM »
That is why Catholics do not know that is a doctrine of RC.

 that doctrine is wrong, simply not acceptable to me....
i will get confirmation when i meet my maker....
until that time, no one can tell me otherwise...
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 04:53 PM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #62 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:04 PM »
that doctrine is wrong, simply not acceptable to me....
i will get confirmation when i meet my maker....
until that time, no one can tell me otherwise...

it's not about what you think.

Its about whether RC has an exclusivity in salvation doctrine or none.

The fact is indeed it has

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #63 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:06 PM »
then what?
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline barrister

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #64 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:10 PM »
never in recent memory have i heard anyone from the RC church mention that only catholics will be saved..
in all the masses i have been to, it was never mentioned....

... whoever wrote that only catholics will be saved must be lunatics....

Are you aware of the Catholic doctrine of Papal Infallibility?

Since this statement was issued by a Pope, then it should be considered by Catholics as infallible ---

“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

Catholics would not consider the Pope's statement ex cathedra as the pronouncement of a lunatic. They are duty-bound to recognize it as infallible ("Preserved from the possibility of error").
 

that doctrine is wrong, simply not acceptable to me....
i will get confirmation when i meet my maker....
until that time, no one can tell me otherwise...

If you are Catholic, you cannot say it is wrong.  You have the obligation to recognize the statement of the Pope as infallible.
 
First, leave the Catholic church.  Then say it is wrong.



===================================


Under the circumstances and prevalent mentality at the time, I believe it was the "right" decision by the Catholic hierarchy. Good decision making I believe is not necessarily about being "right" but being tenable, being able to live with it and being able to implement it.

Hindi na naman iyan ang official Catholic position.

The Catholic church does not say that the Inquisition was correct during the middle ages. The Catholic church admits that it was wrong.
 
Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict apologized for the "Christian violence" inflicted by the church through the ages, which is a good thing. This is a commendable act of humility, stated even if they were aware that it could undermine Catholic authority among their members.
 
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:24 PM by barrister »

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #65 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:20 PM »
Are you aware of the Catholic doctrine of Papal Infallibility?

Since this statement was issued by a Pope, then it should be considered by Catholics as infallible ---
 
Catholics would not consider the Pope's statement ex cathedra as the pronouncement of a lunatic. They are duty-bound to recognize it as infallible.
 
 
 
If you are Catholic, you cannot say it is wrong.  You have the obligation to recognize the statement of the Pope as infallible.


===================================


Hindi na naman iyan ang official Catholic position.

The Catholic church does not say that the Inquisition was correct during the middle ages. The Catholic church admits that it was wrong.
 
Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict apologized for the "Christian violence" inflicted by the church through the ages, which is a good thing. This is a commendable act of humility, stated even if they were aware that it could undermine Catholic authority among their members.
 

yes, but we do not take that seriously, Pope Francis himself says he is a sinner...
Only Jesus is infallible, not man, any pope is only a man....

respect is never imposed, it is earned....

one thing about our church, we can openly criticize it today and not fear na makidnap or maharrass like what we are seeing with the INC now...

during the time of Rizal, the catholic church had political clout to cause his martyrdom...
no more today, our church can not do that anymore...
so here we see a church that evolved over time...

from what i know, INC members are not supposed to join unions,
kaya nga companies are likely to hire them, and yet today we see
about 500 INC members rallying at the DOJ....
what if somebody throws a grenade in the midst of them?
civil war na?
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline barrister

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #66 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:30 PM »
yes, but we do not take that seriously, Pope Francis himself says he is a sinner...
Only Jesus is infallible, not man, any pope is only a man....

You do not take that seriously?  You don't seem to be familiar with Catholic doctrine.
 
I used to be a devout Catholic, so I know what i'm talking about.
 
Catholic doctrine believes that the Pope is not infallible in all matters.  The Pope can sin, and he can make mistakes like all of us.
 
When is the Pope considered infallible?
 
When the Pope speaks "ex-cathedra" (official authoritative teaching), his statement is considered infallible.  But he is fallible in other matters.
 
Why is the Pope infallible when speaking ex-cathedra?  Because of the "petrine supremacy" of the Pope.  The doctrine of infallibility is based on the power given by Peter to all of his successors, which are the Catholic Popes. 
 
If you reject that very basic doctrine, you have no business being Catholic.
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:36 PM by barrister »

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #67 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:35 PM »
church doctrine made by man can be changed by man....

church doctrine coming from Christ himself will never change...

 
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline barrister

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #68 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:39 PM »
church doctrine made by man can be changed by man....

church doctrine coming from Christ himself will never change...

That's exactly my point.
 
If doctrine keeps changing, then it was made by man.  It did not come from God.
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:39 PM by barrister »

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #69 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:43 PM »
there are many of us in the church who know that much...

the RC has undergone many transformations,
the pope is now going to investigate pedophiles in the church...
the RC committed a lot of atrocities, lots of sins swept under the rag...
but over time they acknowledged their mistakes and made ammends...

i am a believer in the addage, "a tree is known by the fruit it bears or the shadow it casts..."
and if its of God, then it will endure for thousands of years...
whatever we do today, whatever we say can be nothing in the eyes of God....
Only God truly knows what is in our hearts and minds...
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:46 PM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline barrister

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #70 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:48 PM »
there are many of us in the church who know that much...

the RC has undergone many transformations,
the pope is now going to investigate pedophiles in the church...
the RC committed a lot of atrocities, lots of sins swept under the rag...
but over time they acknowledged their mistakes and made ammends...

i am a believer in the addage, "a tree is known by the fruit it bears or the shadow it casts..."

 
Yes, they acknowledged their mistakes.  Reform is good for the Catholic church.
 
But they have never admitted that the doctrine of Papal Infallibility is wrong. 
 
The members have no problem with it, since very few of them are even aware that such a doctrine exists.
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:54 PM by barrister »

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #71 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:53 PM »
even if they admit it or not, it is wrong, borne out of medieval thinking
that has no place in the modern world...
God is God, man is man, there can be no interchanging of roles....

i think that i may have to write the Holy Father a letter asking for clarification....;)
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline barrister

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #72 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:55 PM »

Well at least, open-minded ka naman sir. Hindi yung panatiko sa relihiyon.

Tungkol sa unfamiliarity ng Katoliko sa sariling doktrina, bigyan kita ng example.

Noong nagsisimba pa ako regularly, may kinakanta sa simbahan, sabi ng lyrics, "Kordero ng Diyos na nag-aalis ng mga kasalanan ng sanlibutan."

Tanong ko sa mga barkadang Katoliko, ano pagkaalam mo sa salitang "kordero ng Diyos" na lyrics ng himno?

Hindi alam.

O sige, padaliin pa natin. Ano yung "kordero"?

Hindi rin alam.

Tuwing misa kinakanta yon, pero "kordero" lang hindi alam kung ano.
« Last Edit: Aug 28, 2015 at 12:41 PM by barrister »

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #73 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 05:58 PM »
naroon yung mga panatiko sa harap ng DOJ, huwag daw mangialam si De Lima sa INC,
eh bakit pag election time dinidikta nila sa members kung sino ang iboboto?
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline barrister

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #74 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 06:12 PM »
naroon yung mga panatiko sa harap ng DOJ, huwag daw mangialam si De Lima sa INC,
eh bakit pag election time dinidikta nila sa members kung sino ang iboboto?

Ikaw naman sir...  ;)

Hindi problema sa kanila yan. Maraming contact ang INC sa gobyerno. Kayang-kayang ipa-dismiss ang kaso.
 
Yan ang silbi ng practice na sinusuyo sila ng mga kandidato, nagiging malakas sa gobyerno. 

Anyway, sa tingin ko mahina naman talaga ang kaso ng complainants, ayos lang ma-dismiss.



==================================



Ang INC, peyborit atakehin ang relihiyon ng Katoliko.

Pero napapansin ko sa mga Katoliko, mababait. Hindi yung lagi na lang naghahamon ng debate.

Pag may kausap kang INC, ganito ang takbo ng usapin:

- Ang Ama, Diyos, di ba?
- Oo.
- E si Kristo, ano siya?
- Diyos din.
- Ilan na ngayon ang Diyos? E di dalawa na?

Laging ganon ang script niyan...  :D
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 09:08 PM by barrister »

Offline dpogs

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #75 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 06:13 PM »
Well at least, open-minded ka naman sir. Hindi yung panatiko sa relihiyon.

Tungkol sa unfamiliarity ng Katoliko sa sariling doktrina, bigyan kita ng example.

Noong nagsisimba pa ako regularly, may kinakanta sa simbahan, sabi ng lyrics, "Kordero ng Diyos na nag-aalis ng mga kasalanan ng sanlibutan."

Tanong ko sa mga barkadang Katoliko, ano pagkaalam mo sa salitang "kordero ng Diyos" na lyrics ng himno?

Hindi alam.

O sige, padaliin pa natin. Ano yung "kordero"?

Hindi rin alam.

Tuwing misa kinakanata yon, pero "kordero" lang hindi alam kung ano.

Ano ang kordero?

Ni google ko ay = tupa?


Namulat kasi ang mga rc members na katoliko na. Napaka rare na may makita akong nagpa comvert to catholic
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 06:14 PM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline pTrader

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #76 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 06:28 PM »
Meron bang Televangelists  ang Roman Catholic Church?

Offline barrister

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #77 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 06:36 PM »
Puwede ba si Mike Velarde? 
 
Sabi ni Brother Mike Katoliko daw siya.  Pero walang ikapu sa Katoliko; sa El Shaddai meron...  ;)
 
 
 
 
Ano ang kordero?

Ni google ko ay = tupa?


Tama.

"Kordero ng Diyos na nag-aalis ng mga kasalanan ng sanlibutan." --- ang next question ko dapat, paanong nakakaalis ng kasalanan ang kordero?

Kaya lang, kordero pa lang, hindi na alam, e.  :D

That's a quote from John 1:29. Sabi ni Juan Bautista sa mga followers niya tungkol kay Hesus --- “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

The Lamb of God is Jesus Christ.

Bakit Lamb of God?
 
Kasi may sacrificial lamb for the forgivenness of sins sa Old Testament. The lamb must be male, without blemish (meaning white, without colored spots), and without defect (meaning bawal ang lamb na pilay, bulag, etc.), to be sacrificed during the feast of the Passover.

Symbolic yon kay Jesus Christ --- male, without blemish or defect (symbolic of Jesus who was without sin), sacrificed during Passover (Jesus also died during the Passover).

During the time of Moses, the lamb was sacrificed for the forgiveness of sins. In the New Testament, Christ became the true sacrifical lamb, who died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.

18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. (1 Peter 1:18-19)

Kaya nga Siya ang Kordero ng Diyos na nag-aalis ng kasalanan ng sanlibutan.
« Last Edit: Aug 28, 2015 at 12:42 PM by barrister »

Offline dpogs

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #78 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 06:54 PM »
How abouy pope as vicar of christ?
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Offline barrister

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #79 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 07:12 PM »
Alam mo na sagot diyan sir.  Lahat halos ng Protestante alam yan.

Vicar of Christ is the representative of Christ on earth; Peter was the first Vicar, Peter became the first Pope; all Popes are the successors of Peter; all Popes are Vicars of Christ.

Sasabihin ng Protestante, iba ang Petra na large rock sa Petros na small stone.  Si Pedro ay Petros hindi Petra.

Posibleng ito ang hindi mo pa narinig---

Sabi ng Catholic apologist, hindi puwedeng Petra si Peter, kasi feminine ang Petra.  Petros (masculine) si Peter, pareho lang ang meaning ng Petros at Petra noong sinulat yon, parehong large rock.  Kung small stone, dapat "Lithos."  Si Peter ay Cephas which means rock.

Mahabang usapin yan... :D
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 07:50 PM by barrister »

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #80 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 07:31 PM »
Alam mo na sagot diyan sir.  Lahat halos ng Protestante alam yan.

Vicar of Christ is the representative of Christ on earth; Peter was the first Vicar, Peter became the first Pope; all Popes are the successors of Peter; all Popes are Vicars of Christ.

Sasabihin ng Protestante, iba ang Petra na large rock sa Petros na small stone.  Si Pedro ay Petra, hindi Petros.

Posibleng ito ang hindi mo pa narinig---

Sabi ng Catholic apologist, hindi puwedeng Petra si Peter, kasi feminine ang Petra.  Petros (masculine) si Peter, pareho lang ang meaning ng Petro at Petra noong sinulat yon, parehong large rock.  Kung small stone, dapat "lithos."  Si Peter ay Cephas which means rock.

Mahabang usapin yan... :D

inde nga si Peter

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

 18At sinasabi ko naman sa iyo, na ikaw ay Pedro, at sa ibabaw ng batong ito ay itatayo ko ang aking iglesia; at ang mga pintuan ng Hades ay hindi magsisipanaig laban sa kaniya.

it is not a matter of Petros or Petra but the very words that Jesus said.

inde tuwirang sinabe na si Pedro yung "on this  rock"..


Offline dpogs

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #81 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 08:22 PM »
Wors case scenario, id rather be in a churh na kung saan ang lider ay ymay eroplano pero with good, sound biblical doctrime kesa sa church na meek, soft apoken ang lider pero ang doktrina ay pabagobago, umbiblical doctrine.
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Offline bumblebee

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #82 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 08:32 PM »
Do you really have to choose?  ;D

Me plane leader nyo?

Offline dpogs

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #83 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 09:03 PM »
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #84 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 09:10 PM »
Itatanong ko pa ba Kung me Nabasa ako?

Offline leomarley

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #85 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 10:06 PM »
Oo nga, why choose? gawa na lang sarili mong simbahan para magka-eroplano ka rin tapos masusunod pa gusto mong doktrina.

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #86 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 10:14 PM »
Itatanong ko pa ba Kung me Nabasa ako?

Kung naintindihan mo un post ko di ka na magtatanong kung may plane o wala. :-)

There is none righteous, no not one.

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #87 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 10:18 PM »
I understand your post. What I'm asking is, does your leader have a plane?
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 10:19 PM by bumblebee »

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #88 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 10:21 PM »
I understand your post. What I'm asking is, does your leader have a plane?

No. Di na Niya kailangan ng eroplano.
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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #89 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 10:23 PM »
No. Di na Niya kailangan ng eroplano.

Yung leader nyo na tao, Merong plane?
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 10:24 PM by bumblebee »