Topic: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?

[Superman]

That's why we have this forum, and that's why there are people willing to share their experiences and give advice.

If one member is scared of taking the plunge or have reservations going to tubes, then by all means we help them and not guide them.

We are no here to instill FEAR!  There are a lot of new members here, and your remarks are one sided.  Its ironic because you are a vacuum tube amp builder yourself.

Kung sinasabi mong wag magbuyo, mangasar, mangkulam then by all means wag ka rin MANAKOT!

This hobby is expensive as it is, pwede ka naman makinig sa AM radio kung gusto mo.  But since we are in a specialized forum, it means gusto mo ng magandang tunog, and that means better therefore pricier stuff as it comes with the territory.

People will buy and sell stuff, you lose money along the way as you go on with your pursuit of perfection/satisfaction/happiness.  All consumer products will depreciate and you will lose money when you decide to sell.  Isa lang naman ang consumer item na nagaappreciate ang value... Birkin.

Pasensya na sa rant... just my 7cents, from my wife's 7 you know what!

Bro...I can understand your sentiments...

Same goes for any other hobby (like bikes, cars, etc.), when you go the route of "perfection" (which is subjective), you gain some, you lose some...most of the time, you sell at a lower cost to "justify" the cost of the new...BUT I do like to start with the hobby the right way...

Naisip ko tuloy kung ang pangkukulam ay nakaka-encourage or otherwise? Hehehe!

See you soon bro!

[tony]

That's why we have this forum, and that's why there are people willing to share their experiences and give advice.

If one member is scared of taking the plunge or have reservations going to tubes, then by all means we help them and not guide them.

We are no here to instill FEAR!  There are a lot of new members here, and your remarks are one sided.  Its ironic because you are a vacuum tube amp builder yourself.

Kung sinasabi mong wag magbuyo, mangasar, mangkulam then by all means wag ka rin MANAKOT!

This hobby is expensive as it is, pwede ka naman makinig sa AM radio kung gusto mo.  But since we are in a specialized forum, it means gusto mo ng magandang tunog, and that means better therefore pricier stuff as it comes with the territory.

People will buy and sell stuff, you lose money along the way as you go on with your pursuit of perfection/satisfaction/happiness.  All consumer products will depreciate and you will lose money when you decide to sell.  Isa lang naman ang consumer item na nagaappreciate ang value... Birkin.

Pasensya na sa rant... just my 7cents, from my wife's 7 you know what!

i am merely laying out the technical aspects,
nobody came out to say my posts are wrong technically....
what i am merely saying is that an informed decision is better
than just makigaya not knowing what the pros and cons are....
a lot of people call me on the phone, visit me at the house to have chat....
and many of them are happy they did.....
i have been like this since day 1....
i say my piece, you can take it or leave it, the final decision is still up to you....
after all it is your money....
i post so that the others that think like me are constantly reassured that
they are not alone.....

now if you say nananakot ako, then we can discuss, anong post ko ang natakot ka?
kung meron mang dto na natakot sa post ko, please raise your right hand.....

[tony]

I for one am rather new to tubes but I became hopelessly hooked ever since I came across Master Tony's tube amps (I am the proud owner of two of them - 2A3 and 5894).  Having been initiated into audio by Jen (Superman) and mentored by no less than Sir Tony himself, I became more discerning as a listener of music and more appreciative of the subtle nuances of each piece of music I encounter.  No regrets whatsoever being a tube groupie!

thanks Teta, you know me, i would not like to post reviews as they are very personal in nature,
but sometimes it can not be helped...

[dudong]

don't listen to them.....
what is best for your speakers is what makes you happy....
unless you want to start a new career in buying and selling tubes and tube amps.....

i am trying to save you guys a lot of money....

If you think these statements are not meant to scare them or discourage them, then we can just agree to disagree.

[Courage]

So far, wala naman ako nakita dito sa thread nato na nanakot.. he he he

Yung fear ko of owning a Tube is simply because wala akong alam sa tube. Para akong si Jon Snow... I KNOW NOTHING he he he

[tony]

So far, wala naman ako nakita dito sa thread nato na nanakot.. he he he

Yung fear ko of owning a Tube is simply because wala akong alam sa tube. Para akong si Jon Snow... I KNOW NOTHING he he he

well we can start with this...nos tube and used tubes...see if you can spot the difference...
the issue of nos and used tubes is one that gets newbies, i get complaints from those na naloko...

[dudong]

So far, wala naman ako nakita dito sa thread nato na nanakot.. he he he

Yung fear ko of owning a Tube is simply because wala akong alam sa tube. Para akong si Jon Snow... I KNOW NOTHING he he he

Not specifically directed at you Courage, you're not the only one who reads this thread.

[tony]

If you think these statements are not meant to scare them or discourage them, then we can just agree to disagree.

if only people try to understand the meaning of what i post and not get emotional,
they will see that i am doing them a favor, i do not make money posting here,
i do post to share my knowledge because to me it is my way of giving back,
life has been very good to me...

i do not sell amps as "bread and butter thing", i do not need a job anymore,
working as an OFW, i have some saved just enough for my needs....
people come to me...i have turned many of them away if i see that
i would just be wasting their time.....
the one thing that i have learned here, is that i can say NO.....
you maybe surprised to learn who the personalities call on me for advise...

@dudong, i know that you are a very good techie as i have seen your work,
i have no problem with techies, yes, even those who stab me in the back,
we speak more less the same language so we can understand....

[CoolTOYZPH]

well we can start with this...nos tube and used tubes...see if you can spot the difference...
the issue of nos and used tubes is one that gets newbies, i get complaints from those na naloko...

^ you once posted once a tube is taken out of the box it is no longer NOS.
With that logic, neither is NOS. wooosh!

once you open the cellophane wrapper and look into the box contents,
then this is no longer NOS, it then becomes NIB or new in box....

Posts like this may scare off someone who wants to get into tubes, because they will be too conscious if the tube is NIB, NOS, USED, etc... The reality is NIB, NOS, USED, is secondary to the sound quality it will provide. It does not follow that because a 6922 tube is NIB it will sound better than a used 6922 tube.

[tetablanco]

Hey buddy!

Thank you! I am sure you're very happy and enjoying your audio rig! Hope to visit you soon bro! All the best!

Anytime, Pare!   By the way, you're so blessed to have such a beautiful baby.

[dudong]

^ you once posted once a tube is taken out of the box it is no longer NOS.
With that logic, neither is NOS. wooosh!

Posts like this may scare off someone who wants to get into tubes, because they will be too conscious if the tube is NIB, NOS, USED, etc... The reality is NIB, NOS, USED, is secondary to the sound quality is will provide. It does not follow that because a 6922 tube is NIB it will sound better than a used 6922 tube.

And in most cases, Brand is better than new (Russian/Chinese).

[tony]

^ that is why this early they should learn to know the difference....

[tony]

And in most cases, Brand is better than new (Russian/Chinese).

and statements like this, prevents would be users of tube amps to enjoy their purchase
right out of the box....
no wonder, i got a phone call from a guy wanting to buy an ASL 6l6 monoblocks
asking me what modifications can be done to the amp...and he has not even listened to it....

[dudong]

and statements like this, prevents would be users of tube amps to enjoy their purchase
right out of the box....
no wonder, i got a phone call from a guy wanting to buy an ASL 6l6 monoblocks
asking me what modifications can be done to the amp...and he has not even listened to it....

I dont want to pick a fight with you sir tony but I cant figure you out.

First, you diverted the topic to nos tube and used tubes.

Now your inserting 'modifications' on a nos/used/russian/chinese tube comment of mine and cooltoyz.

To tube roll or to replace the original tubes that came with your new amp is reversible. It is not a modification. 

All the more you are making it confusing for members who want to try vacuum tubes.

And what does me being a 'techie' have to do with all of these. You can have a tube amp and enjoy it even if you dont know the difference between a soldering iron and a soldering lead.  Just ask around, in my case I would recommend Rene Rivo if someone needs assistance.

If anyone wants to venture to flea powered amps, check the SETUP/Harana guys!

[CoolTOYZPH]

I highly recommend John Poscablo for those who want to experience the tube sound.
Sir John is a music lover and not a lover of equipment or technical specifications.
The only con is John is a very busy person and you need to adjust your schedule to match his availability.
He is busy but find time for the love of music and not to sell gears.

Sir John also has a full range of speakers from vintage full range, small bookshelf, to multi drivers and gladly connect these speaker to your existing owned gear. It is a truly learning experience.

Like someone stated... I wish we can hear technical specification but the reality is we hear sound.

[Superman]

Rene Rivo, John Poscablo, Jojo Dijamco, Andrew Sevilla, Rod Teope

These are the highly-reliable and competent tube amplifier makers in the Philippines...Easy to deal with especially for newbies...excellent craftsmanship and will provide the best service!

This is based on my actual (previous and current) experience with them. Good thing as well is that they would make recommendations based on the speakers/equipment you have and the music you prefer. And they also would eventually encourage tube rolling as each tube would have different sonic characters (to the user's preference) regardless of how they physically look. Boss Rene and Sir John has been my sources for tubes -- and they also use tubes which are readily available, easy for tube rolling and tubes which are usually used for audio application.

[tetablanco]

I'm extremely happy with the tube amps and tube preamp I got from Sir Tony. 

The really great thing about this hobby is that different tube flavors cater to everyone's tastes. There's always a perfect match for everyone - and even then, there's always that never-ending itch to try something new even when you've attained your personal nirvana of sound perfection.  That's the nature of the beast.

In my case and while I'm perfectly satisfied with the tube equipment I got from Sir Tony, I do a bit of tube rolling as well.  For this purpose, I don't have to sell an arm or a leg just to get my tube fix since I'm always on the lookout for good tube bargains on Ebay.  I do agree that good sound can come from the established but rather pricey brands like Mullard.  Good quality begets good brands. However and as Sir Tony had explained (which was supported by my readings on this point), the distinction between brands may blur when the established tube companies would oftentimes swap and borrow tube stocks from each other just to fill a client's order.  In the case of RFT which is a not-as-well-known East German tube manufacturer, it regularly serves as OEM for established names like Telefunken, Siemens, Philips, Sylvania, etc.  With RFT tubes which you can still get on the cheap from sellers from Slovakia, Bulgaria, etc., you get true German-engineered tubes that are identical to those branded under the more established names.

During one of Sir Tony's interesting forays abroad (he also worked for top chipmaker AMD), he also got to work in Russia where he got a chance to work up close and personal with Russian tubes.  He would dissect these tubes to check out their innards and would then design customized tube amps and preamps which took best advantage of each tube's unique characteristics.  When I asked him about the rather negative perception of Russian tubes, he replied that the Russians would make sure that they made the best handcrafted tubes they could make since they were always under threat of being arrested and thrown into the gulag if they produced substandard tubes.   

When I asked Sir Tony what tubes would be "best" for a tube amp, he would always say that it would depend on the tube's implementation.  In other words, I gathered that he could design and implement a circuit that would make any decent audio-grade tube (even Russian and Chinese) shine.  In a way, I would describe Sir Tony as a music enthusiast who is tube agnostic.

The best lesson I got from Sir Tony and other DIYers is that I don't have to spend lots of moolah just to enjoy something as pleasurable as tube audio. 

[tony]

I dont want to pick a fight with you sir tony but I cant figure you out.

sure you can't figure me out, because you have made up your mind,
and i am not the one to educate you...besides you do not know what i know....
you can just add me to your ignore list, and be done with it...
just as i have put some in my ignore list, it is that simple really,
but there are those who does, and my post is for them, not for the likes of you...
if you can not understand what i post, then that is not my problem...

[tony]

thanks attorney Teta much appreciated,
i am fully aware and understand that you can not please everyone,
i never tried, to do that is a waste of time.....i am just being honest with my opinions....
i never look at people coming to me as an opportunity to make money....
just last night a FB friend came all the way from Cebu to see me, i helped the guy
build his first EL84pp amp and he tell me he is hooked on to tubes, another tubero n his late 20's...
i tried to discourage him at first, but his persistence paid off n the end....
you see it is never about the money.....
perhaps the best advise you can gve me is to call my attention when i post something that can be construed as libelous....

I'm extremely happy with the tube amps and tube preamp I got from Sir Tony. 

The really great thing about this hobby is that different tube flavors cater to everyone's tastes. There's always a perfect match for everyone - and even then, there's always that never-ending itch to try something new even when you've attained your personal nirvana of sound perfection.  That's the nature of the beast.

In my case and while I'm perfectly satisfied with the tube equipment I got from Sir Tony, I do a bit of tube rolling as well.  For this purpose, I don't have to sell an arm or a leg just to get my tube fix since I'm always on the lookout for good tube bargains on Ebay.  I do agree that good sound can come from the established but rather pricey brands like Mullard.  Good quality begets good brands. However and as Sir Tony had explained (which was supported by my readings on this point), the distinction between brands may blur when the established tube companies would oftentimes swap and borrow tube stocks from each other just to fill a client's order.  In the case of RFT which is a not-as-well-known East German tube manufacturer, it regularly serves as OEM for established names like Telefunken, Siemens, Philips, Sylvania, etc.  With RFT tubes which you can still get on the cheap from sellers from Slovakia, Bulgaria, etc., you get true German-engineered tubes that are identical to those branded under the more established names.

During one of Sir Tony's interesting forays abroad (he also worked for top chipmaker AMD), he also got to work in Russia where he got a chance to work up close and personal with Russian tubes.  He would dissect these tubes to check out their innards and would then design customized tube amps and preamps which took best advantage of each tube's unique characteristics.  When I asked him about the rather negative perception of Russian tubes, he replied that the Russians would make sure that they made the best handcrafted tubes they could make since they were always under threat of being arrested and thrown into the gulag if they produced substandard tubes.   

When I asked Sir Tony what tubes would be "best" for a tube amp, he would always say that it would depend on the tube's implementation.  In other words, I gathered that he could design and implement a circuit that would make any decent audio-grade tube (even Russian and Chinese) shine.  In a way, I would describe Sir Tony as a music enthusiast who is tube agnostic.

The best lesson I got from Sir Tony and other DIYers is that I don't have to spend lots of moolah just to enjoy something as pleasurable as tube audio. 

[CoolTOYZPH]

Agree with you Jen. Newbies may find different paths but eventually end up with the experts in your list. Upon hearing their gears the difference becomes very apparent.

Rene Rivo, John Poscablo, Jojo Dijamco, Andrew Sevilla, Rod Teope

These are the highly-reliable and competent tube amplifier makers in the Philippines...Easy to deal with especially for newbies...excellent craftsmanship and will provide the best service!

[Superman]

Agree with you Jen. Newbies may find different paths but eventually end up with the experts in your list. Upon hearing their gears the difference becomes very apparent.

Thanks Jo! You're in good hands with these highly-capable, competent, humble and known tube amp makers...you get more than your money's worth...best service at that!

[Narayan]

The best lesson I got from Sir Tony and other DIYers is that I don't have to spend lots of moolah just to enjoy something as pleasurable as tube audio. 

Very well said, Teta

[dana]

i was able to meet them all, except for the all around JojoD.
Rene Rivo- meet n greet. some converstations during hi fi shows.
John Poscablo- bought some tubes from him. medyo moody.hirap basahin. learned later, wife has some health issues yta.maybe has something to do.can understand.
Mang Rod Teope- used to lurk around his house in Conchu, watched him work with his tube amps, wind his traffos. even suggested/was credited  the name MUSIKA for his pre amp, to pit against the TONO pre amp then.
Edrel-my neighbor here in EPZA. your friendly parts supplier. have his 7193 horny preamp.
Andrew Sevilla- even have his KT88PP int. amp.
Tonyt- don't have a creation from him yet. he is  just a pm away if you have some questions need some technical guidance. The most active & generous among to share his time, technical knowhow, guidance &  thoughts.imo, with his contributions, the community is very much blessed to have him around.

   ot...

I try to enjoy both worlds: ss & v. tube...because its there and still available.
besides, life is short.

[remington]

For me this hobby of ours is all about ones pleasure,happiness and satisfaction (pampa haba ng buhay as they say) that is why for me I use both SS and tubes amps at the same time to fill out my cravings for good sound
( my preference for music that is ). tubes for the mid and upper frequencies and ss for the lows and inbetween. forget about the electricity bills and the heat and all the expenses associated with this hobby, as long as you are happy and have that extra money to spend I say why not go for it hindi natin madadala sa hukay ang lahat ng mase-save natin in this world. sa langit o kung saan man tayo mapunta after life e wala nang ss or tubes kaya habang buhay pa tayo we should try to experience/explore the best that we can afford.......just my 2 cents

[tony]

i was able to meet them all, except for the all around JojoD.
Rene Rivo- meet n greet. some converstations during hi fi shows.
John Poscablo- bought some tubes from him. medyo moody.hirap basahin. learned later, wife has some health issues yta.maybe has something to do.can understand.
Mang Rod Teope- used to lurk around his house in Conchu, watched him work with his tube amps, wind his traffos. even suggested/was credited  the name MUSIKA for his pre amp, to pit against the TONO pre amp then.
Edrel-my neighbor here in EPZA. your friendly parts supplier. have his 7193 horny preamp.
Andrew Sevilla- even have his KT88PP int. amp.
Tonyt- don't have a creation from him yet. he is  just a pm away if you have some questions need some technical guidance. The most active & generous among to share his time, technical knowhow, guidance &  thoughts.imo, with his contributions, the community is very much blessed to have him around.

 

Don why don't you invite them to see your lair and be dazzled by the quantity of your gears?
btw, the Luxman LV-105 you donated to me is just about to sing after 4 years, sana this year,
i will give you the first crack to listen to it....

John and I have been talking to each other in the later semester of last year, that is when i learned
a lot of things from him, i just hope that i have comforted him enough, i am aware of his health issues,
but i am sure he will recover from it and will be good as new....we do compare notes from time to time...
techies support each other, not so many people know this....i am also in touch with the malabon boys...

i am also happy to know that my tukayo, Trod93 is now good as new, talked to him just the other
day about hs cambridge phono upgrade....

like i said, i have no problem with fellow techies, even if sometimes we do not agree about diskarte, and that is just about right....

i never take comments here to heart, but instead learn from it....
my recent foray into lending out tube amps to would be users actually thought me a lot
about tube amps, and why not? i know how i made it....
so in effect i am more enriched by the experience, amps cost a finite amount of money,
but the knowledge gained, priceless....

[tony]

If anyone wants to venture to flea powered amps, check the SETUP/Harana guys!

agree, Joseph Esmilla's blogs are a joy to read....

[tetablanco]

My main reason for going into tube audio is that life is too short for me to be listening to crap music.


 

[luis]

common reason for not trying tubes based on conversations I had with pdvd members and non-pdvd:

 - di ko type yung tunog
 - umiinit, di na ka aircon yung listening room ko
 - baka mapaso yung toddler ko
 - baka madaling masira
 - baka mahirap yung aftersales
 - baka mahirap mag pa repair
 - mahirap mag source ng replacement tubes and parts
 - malakas sa kuryente

eto yung sagot mga sagot ko:

 - pag di mo type yung tunog eh ikaw yun
 - kahit di aircon yung room, ok lang basta may moving air.
 - pag may bata valid yung paso concern pero baka may cage yung tube amp mo ok na yun.
 - madaming nagrerepair ng tube dito sa atin
 - maraming nag t-trade ng tube dito sa atin
 - yung kuryente parehas lang sa SS

at the end of the line, my reco is to try it.  bukod sa malambing and full sounding, sarap pang titigan.  iba rin ang dating sa bisita.  very nice conversation piece also.

 

[remington]

a friend of mine who does not want to be named but also a member here said that the reason why he won't go tubes is because of the overly prized rate of every local diyer he inquired to. mas mahal pa daw sa mga branded amps in his posession kung minsan

[Superman]

My main reason for going into tube audio is that life is too short for me to be listening to crap music.