Author Topic: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?  (Read 69991 times)

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Offline mykel18

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #360 on: Feb 09, 2016 at 03:50 PM »
Listening to another system also gives you the chance to hear and experience other gears. Learn from their experience. Along the way, you will hear something that will be a reference to you in building or improving your system. It may have to be the same equipment or not but at least you know the sound you want. Let your ears decide (and wallet) whatever happens.
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Offline tony

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« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2016 at 10:25 AM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tetablanco

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Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #363 on: Feb 12, 2016 at 01:05 PM »
those of you who scoff at mere TV tubes, this designer makes high end amps output the scorned TV tubes...
http://davidberning.com/

this amp uses the 6LF6/EL509 horizontal output tubes....

http://davidberning.com/products/ea2100

but of course others will just stick to the usual suspects,45, 2A3, 300b, 845, el84, el34, kt88 etc..., i'd say they are missing a lot...;)
« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2016 at 01:06 PM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline CoolTOYZPH

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #364 on: Feb 12, 2016 at 07:45 PM »
Coming from a recognized music lover O0

Listening to another system also gives you the chance to hear and experience other gears. Learn from their experience. Along the way, you will hear something that will be a reference to you in building or improving your system. It may have to be the same equipment or not but at least you know the sound you want. Let your ears decide (and wallet) whatever happens.
« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2016 at 07:48 PM by CoolTOYZPH »
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Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #365 on: Feb 12, 2016 at 07:48 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6d-cZB7DgA

those contemplating on tube gears, the 12ax7 is most used tube in a guitar amps and phono heads...
the whole point of this post is for tube noobs to realize that there is more to the label of the 12ax7 printed on the glass...that the 12ax7 you are holdng now may not be what it seems.... >:D
better informed means you can be immuned from the spins and hypes.....

« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2016 at 06:43 AM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline CoolTOYZPH

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #366 on: Feb 12, 2016 at 07:59 PM »
Is a 12AX7 a TV tube?

How to Spot Super Rare 12AX7 Vacuum Tubes part I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6d-cZB7DgA
« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2016 at 07:59 PM by CoolTOYZPH »
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Offline tetablanco

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #367 on: Feb 13, 2016 at 06:27 AM »
Is a 12AX7 a TV tube?


One of the most common misconceptions by tube newbies and those caught up in the "audiophile" marketing hype is that certain tubes are "audio tubes" while others are "TV tubes", etc.  When they were first designed, vacuum or electron tubes were created as general purpose tubes.  Depending upon their unique characteristics, raw materials availability, manufacturing costs, etc., some tubes were later assigned to specific purposes.  For example, a popular preamp tube - the RCA JAN CRC 12sx7gt - was originally used for radar and avionics by the US military.  However and because of its unique characteristics, it later found contemporary use as an audio preamp tube.  JAN (Joint-Army-Navy) tubes are particularly sought after now since quality is more consistent in light of the US military's more stringent manufacturing and technical specifications for these. 

Technically speaking, there is no such thing as an "audio tube" or a "TV tube", etc since electron tubes do nothing more than amplify ANY electrical signal.  Later on, certain tubes were designated as transmission tubes due to their high amplification properties or as audio tubes due to low microphonics. 

Most of the so-called audio tubes now are nothing more than general purpose tubes that were later designated for audio use for marketing reasons. Mostly because of high demand from audio enthusiasts from Japan, Taiwan, etc. who wanted to soften the hardness of digital music from CD, etc, vacuum tubes that used to cost mere cents and were later designated through marketing hype as "audio tubes" (such as the NOS 300B, 2A3, etc.) have skyrocketed in price due to market speculation.  Once an unknown general purpose tube gains popularity as an "audio tube" and speculation again drives the price up (a Taiwanese once bought up tens of thousands of a particular unknown tube when it gained popularity as an "audio tube" among the DIY community), DIYers who are mostly seasoned electrical engineers like Tony who have been exposed to both the analog and digital side of the technology then search for other tubes to use.  You'll see this phenomenon happen often on DIY audio sites. 

Once a tube becomes expensive, Tony and the other DIYer's then search for other unknown but still relatively-cheap tubes which can be used for audio and then design and build customized circuits for these.  At the end of the day, what truly counts in tube audio is the sound and not the marketing hype surrounding certain tubes since this only serves to fatten those in the business of milking money out of those who don't know any better.
« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2016 at 07:22 AM by tetablanco »

Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #368 on: Feb 13, 2016 at 06:40 AM »
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/286780-12ax7-ever-used-television-sets.html#post4614524

indeed there are thousands of "sleeper " tubes out there,
and thanks to the efforts of guys like smoking-amp, tubelab, wavebourn, YvesM and others,
these sleeper tubes are being unearthed and discussed...
you will be amazed at how a certain tube gets gobbled up once it is discussed at diyaudio..
just about a couple of years, tubelab tells me, that certain taiwanese group purchased
10,000 pcs of 6gv5 from a florida seller...
after that the price increased from a dollar each to about 5 dollars...

another good read.....http://www.elektronikinfo.de/strom/ecc83_12ax7.htm

next time we will talk about the 6sn7, stand by.....
« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2016 at 08:55 AM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #369 on: Feb 13, 2016 at 08:48 AM »
tetablancos' learning came from his independent researching of the internet, not from me...
he is basically saying the same thing as in the video above....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6d-cZB7DgA

i merely pointed him in some directions....;)

One of the most common misconceptions by tube newbies and those caught up in the "audiophile" marketing hype is that certain tubes are "audio tubes" while others are "TV tubes", etc.  When they were first designed, vacuum or electron tubes were created as general purpose tubes.  Depending upon their unique characteristics, raw materials availability, manufacturing costs, etc., some tubes were later assigned to specific purposes.  For example, a popular preamp tube - the RCA JAN CRC 12sx7gt - was originally used for radar and avionics by the US military.  However and because of its unique characteristics, it later found contemporary use as an audio preamp tube.  JAN (Joint-Army-Navy) tubes are particularly sought after now since quality is more consistent in light of the US military's more stringent manufacturing and technical specifications for these. 

Technically speaking, there is no such thing as an "audio tube" or a "TV tube", etc since electron tubes do nothing more than amplify ANY electrical signal.  Later on, certain tubes were designated as transmission tubes due to their high amplification properties or as audio tubes due to low microphonics. 

Most of the so-called audio tubes now are nothing more than general purpose tubes that were later designated for audio use for marketing reasons. Mostly because of high demand from audio enthusiasts from Japan, Taiwan, etc. who wanted to soften the hardness of digital music from CD, etc, vacuum tubes that used to cost mere cents and were later designated through marketing hype as "audio tubes" (such as the NOS 300B, 2A3, etc.) have skyrocketed in price due to market speculation.  Once an unknown general purpose tube gains popularity as an "audio tube" and speculation again drives the price up (a Taiwanese once bought up tens of thousands of a particular unknown tube when it gained popularity as an "audio tube" among the DIY community), DIYers who are mostly seasoned electrical engineers like Tony who have been exposed to both the analog and digital side of the technology then search for other tubes to use.  You'll see this phenomenon happen often on DIY audio sites. 

Once a tube becomes expensive, Tony and the other DIYer's then search for other unknown but still relatively-cheap tubes which can be used for audio and then design and build customized circuits for these.  At the end of the day, what truly counts in tube audio is the sound and not the marketing hype surrounding certain tubes since this only serves to fatten those in the business of milking money out of those who don't know any better.
« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2016 at 08:57 AM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline CoolTOYZPH

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #370 on: Feb 13, 2016 at 09:46 AM »
For the record it was Tony who brought up the concept of "TV tubes".
As a newbie I merely wanted to confirm if a 12AX7 is a TV Tube as I do not want to be missing a lot...

1)
those of you who scoff at mere TV tubes, this designer makes high end amps output the scorned TV tubes...
http://davidberning.com/

this amp uses the 6LF6/EL509 horizontal output tubes....

http://davidberning.com/products/ea2100

but of course others will just stick to the usual suspects,45, 2A3, 300b, 845, el84, el34, kt88 etc..., i'd say they are missing a lot...;)

2)
Is a 12AX7 a TV tube?

3)
One of the most common misconceptions by tube newbies and those caught up in the "audiophile" marketing hype is that certain tubes are "audio tubes" while others are "TV tubes", etc.

« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2016 at 10:11 AM by CoolTOYZPH »
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Offline dudong

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Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #372 on: Feb 13, 2016 at 10:44 AM »
you can learn more about tubes at http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/, where international tube gurus are postng on a regular basis...lots to learn....

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/285100-those-magnificent-television-tubes.html

smoking-amp made a comparative study.....

Quote from: smoking-amp;4612358
Here are some 12BQ6 curves for g2 drive and "Crazy Drive" (hybrid g2 and g1).

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/285100-those-magnificent-television-tubes-2.html#post4578292

When the datasheet refers to high perveance, they are usually talking about the g1 gm being high. For g2, divide that by the g2/g1 Mu factor. So for the 12BQ6GT, gm1 = 5550 at 55 mA, Mu = 4.3, so gm2 = 5550/4.3 = 1290 (about what a 12AX7 has for g1 gm!)

Here are some data for TV Sweeps in general, for g2 drive purposes. This gives the plate knee current available for g2 = 150 V (with g1 = 0 V). Tubes at the top of the list are the more desirable for g2 drive. (For example, a 35LR6 could get you gm2 = 16000/3.5 = 4571)

Crazy Drive (g2 and g1 hybrid) can reduce the drive voltage requirement by around 33% from plain g2 drive. It's also more linear. Same high Rp out though, so some kind of N Fdbk needed to lower output Z.

List of knee currents for g2 = 150 V, g1 = 0 V, Vp = 60 to 80 V
<tube> <Watts> <mA knee@150Vg2> <gm1> <Mu> <maxDCmA> <registered by> <date>

6LF6 40W 1144mA@150V 15K@125mA Mu3 500mADC Amperex 1968
6KG6/EL509 34W 1135mA@150V 13K@150mA Mu3.2 500mADC Amperex 1965
6MC6 33W 1130mA@150V 14K@125mA Mu4 400mADC RCA (6LX6 clone) 1972
13E1 90W(absmax) 1120mA@150V 35K@500mA Mu4.5 800mADC AEI 1961
6MH6 38.3W 1100mA@150V 14K@125mA Mu4 500mADC GE (up-rated 6LX6,6KD6,26HU5) 1972
6MB6 38W 1085mA@150V 14K@110mA Mu3.5 400mADC Sylvania 1971
6LR6 30W 1085mA@150V 16K@140mA Mu3.5 375mADC Sylvania 1968
6LX6/6KD6/26HU5 33W 1080mA@150V 14K@125mA Mu4 400mADC GE 1969/1965/1969
6LW6 40W 1050mA@150V 12K@125mA Mu3.7 400mADC GE 1971
6KN6 30W 1050mA@150V 16K@100mA Mu4.5 400mADC Sylvania 1965 (later versions are 6KD6)
6LZ6 30W 940mA@150V 11K@140mA Mu3 350mADC RCA 1971
6LB6/A 30W/35W 825mA@150V 13.4K@105mA Mu4 315mADC GE 1967
6JE6C/6JS6C 30W 789mA@150V 10.5K@130mA Mu3 350mADC Sylvania 68/69
6JE6 24W 762mA@150V 9.6K@115mA Mu3 315mADC RCA 1962
6JS6/6HF5 28W 749mA@150V 11.5K@130mA Mu3 315mADC GE 1964/1963
6MJ6 30W 740mA@150V 11K@100mA Mu3.6 350mADC RCA 1973
6LG6 28W 740mA@150V 11.5K@90mA Mu3.6 315mADC GE 1967
6LQ6 30W 715mA@150V 7.5K@95mA Mu3 350mADC RCA 1967
6ME6 30W 700mA@150V 9.6@130mA Mu3.5 350mADC RCA 1971
6DQ5 24W 690mA@150V 10.5K@110mA Mu3.3 315mADC RCA 1957
6JF6/6JG6 17W 660mA@150V 10K@80mA Mu4.1 275mADC RCA 1965/1964
6KM6 20W 630mA@150V 9.5K@80mA Mu4 275mADC RCA 1965
6HD5/6HJ5 24W 630mA@150V 10K@80mA Mu4.2 280mADC Raytheon 1962/1963
6JR6/6JU6 17W 600mA@150V 7K@45mA Mu4.7 275mADC RCA 1968/1966
6JZ6/21HB5A 18W 560mA@150V 9K@46mA Mu4.8 230mADC  GE 1966/1964
12HE7 10-15W 540mA@150V 8.8K@60mA Mu4.2 200mADC GE (15W if damper disabled) 1964
6CL5 25W 514mA@150V 6.5K@90mA Mu3 240mADC Sylvania 1955
6GB5/29KQ6/EL500 17W 500mA@150V 13K@100mA Mu5.1 275mADC Amperex 1961/Matsucrapa 1959/Philips 1961?
6KV6/A 20-28W 488/610mA@150V 6K@40mA Mu4 275mADC RCA (re-rated 6KM6?) 1967/1969
6HB5/6GY5/21JV6/6KE6/16KA6 18W 475mA@150V 9.1K@50mA Mu4.7 230mADC GE/GE/GE/Ray/Tung 1962/1962/1965/1965/1964
6EX6 22W 460mA@150V 7.7K@67mA Mu4.2 220mADC Raytheon (up-rated 6CD6) 1959
6CB5/A 23W 440mA@150V 8.8K@90mA Mu3.8 240mADC RCA 1954/1956
6CD6/GA 15/20W 422mA@150V 7.7K@75mA Mu3.9 200mADC RCA/GE 1949/1954
6GT5/6GJ5/6JT6/6JB6/6GW6 17.5W 380mA@150V 7.1K@70mA Mu4.4 175mADC RCA 1961/1961/1964/1962/1961
6GE5 17.5W 350mA@150V 7.3K@65mA Mu4.4 175mADC GE 1961
6GF5 9W 345mA@150V 4.7K@34mA Mu4.2 160mADC GE 1961
6JM6/6JN6/6FW5/6GC6 17.5W 340mA@150V 7.3K@70mA Mu4.4 175mADC GE 1964/1964/1960/1960
6DQ6B/6GV5 17.5W/18W 330mA@150V 7.3K@65mA Mu4.4 175mADC GE 1959/1962
6DQ6/A 18W 280mA@150V 6.6K@55mA Mu4.1 120/155mADC CBS/RCA 1955/1956
6JA5/10JA5 19W 276mA@150V 10.3K@95mA Mu5.5 110mADC GE 1971
6LU8/6LR8//6MY8 14//16W 265mA@150V 9.3K@56mA Mu6.5 75mADC Sylvania 1964/1964//1970(Toshiba)
6AV5/GA///6BQ6/GA 11W 255ma@150V 5.9K@57mA Mu4.3 110mADC CBS/GE 1949/1955 /// CBS/Syl 1949/1953
KT120 60W 221ma@150V 190mADC
KT90 50W 220mA@150V
6Y6G/GT/GA 12.5W 200mA@150V Ray 1937/KenRad 1939/Syl 1954
6550A 35W/42W 190mA@150V 11K@140mA 190mADC 
6W6GT 10W 185mA@150V 8K@46mA Mu6.2 65mADC CBS 1939
KT88 35W 170mA@150V 175mADC
6CA7/EL34 25W 107mA@150V 11K@100mA Mu10.5 150mADC Philips 1952
6JC5 19W 80mA@150V 4.1K@43mA Mu7 75mADC Sylvania 1971
6L6/G/GA/GB/GC 30W 77mA@150V 4.7K@40mA Mu8 110mADC RCA 1936/Ray 1936/Syl 1943/Syl 1954/GE 1958
6HB6 10W 70mA@150V 20K@40mA Mu33 60mADC Raytheon 1961
6GK6 13.2W 65mA@150V 11.3K@48mA Mu19 65mADC CBS 1959
6BQ5/EL84 12W 65mA@150V 11.3K@48mA Mu19.5 65mADC Rogers 1956
6V6G/GT 14W 45mA@150V 4.1K@45mA Mu9.8 40mADC KenRad 1936/CBS 1939
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2016 at 10:47 AM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #373 on: Feb 13, 2016 at 11:34 AM »
actually there are two kinds of tubes categories,
the receiving types and the transmitting types....
the term TV tubes came about because of the millions upon millions
of television sets made all around the earth,
and the perhaps billions of tubes made for them...
so much so that decades after the tube type tv's became obsolete,
the tubes meant as replacements are still in warehouses all over the US and Europe,
even here in manila, we still can find caches of TV tubes, the recent of
my acquisition composed 1800 pcs from a shop in malabon...
proof of existence of these tubes is the fact that some sellers in the states
have periodic sale down to U$0.35 per piece if you buy by the hundreds...
« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2016 at 11:35 AM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #374 on: Feb 15, 2016 at 08:12 AM »
the 6SN7 tube.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6SN7
this is another tube much loved by the audiophile crowd, so much so
that Antique Sounds Lab used then extensively in many of their amps...
the legendary Williamson type amps....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williamson_amplifier
likewise started out with them to drive
tube like the kt66 ~ 88, 6550, 6L6 and EL34 types....
the 6SN7 was later replaced with minature types like the 12au7's and the 6CG7/6GQ7's....
the 6CG7/6GQ7's is the 9 pin version of the octal 6SN7's....
http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/6SN7/6SN7.htm
this is a video about NOS 6sn7 tube....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trzsvo_erx4
second part...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hArIxmPHG-s
third oart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ9F1EJHO_w
good read:
http://www.fourwater.com/files/hist6sn7.txt
http://www.earlytelevision.org/Deksnis/CTC2_horiz_osc.html
http://www.radioremembered.org/admiral20x1.html
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tetablanco

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #375 on: Feb 15, 2016 at 07:06 PM »
the 6SN7 tube.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6SN7
this is another tube much loved by the audiophile crowd, so much so
that Antique Sounds Lab used then extensively in many of their amps...
the legendary Williamson type amps....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williamson_amplifier
likewise started out with them to drive
tube like the kt66 ~ 88, 6550, 6L6 and EL34 types....
the 6SN7 was later replaced with minature types like the 12au7's and the 6CG7/6GQ7's....
the 6CG7/6GQ7's is the 9 pin version of the octal 6SN7's....
http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/6SN7/6SN7.htm
this is a video about NOS 6sn7 tube....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trzsvo_erx4
second part...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hArIxmPHG-s
third oart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ9F1EJHO_w
good read:
http://www.fourwater.com/files/hist6sn7.txt
http://www.earlytelevision.org/Deksnis/CTC2_horiz_osc.html
http://www.radioremembered.org/admiral20x1.html


The 6SN7 is rather pricey nowadays. Its cheaper 12-volt cousins, the 12SN7 and 12SX7, are what I use now for my Master Tony tube preamp.  :)

Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #376 on: Feb 19, 2016 at 08:37 PM »
^yup, same tube different filament voltages...functions the same, and in some cases sounds better....

this is a good read about NOS tubes....http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/world-of-NOS-tubes.htm
« Last Edit: Feb 19, 2016 at 08:53 PM by tony »
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Offline CoolTOYZPH

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #377 on: Feb 20, 2016 at 10:06 AM »
Are the 12-volt cousins, the 12SN7 and 12SX7 considered as part of the "TV Tubes"?
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Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #378 on: Feb 20, 2016 at 11:44 AM »
when a tube is pulled out of a tv set, then it is a tv tube, when the tube is pulled out of a radio,
then it is a radio tube....when the tube is used in an audio amp, then it is an audio tube....

tubes themselves do not have any idea of where or how they are used,
but people do, designers of tube amps specially.....;)
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Offline tetablanco

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #379 on: Feb 20, 2016 at 02:18 PM »
Are the 12-volt cousins, the 12SN7 and 12SX7 considered as part of the "TV Tubes"?

http://www.diytube.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4984

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #380 on: Feb 20, 2016 at 03:24 PM »
I remember it was you who labelled some tubes as "TV Tubes".

when a tube is pulled out of a tv set, then it is a tv tube, when the tube is pulled out of a radio,
then it is a radio tube....when the tube is used in an audio amp, then it is an audio tube....

tubes themselves do not have any idea of where or how they are used,
but people do, designers of tube amps specially.....;)
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Offline CoolTOYZPH

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #381 on: Feb 20, 2016 at 03:35 PM »
The evolution of the 6SN7 tube http://www.fourwater.com/files/hist6sn7.txt
The articles does not mention the 6Sn7 or the 12SX7 being used on Television
...which means 6SN7 and 12SX7 users are still missing a lot because they are not TV tubes.

 
those of you who scoff at mere TV tubes, this designer makes high end amps output the scorned TV tubes...
http://davidberning.com/

this amp uses the 6LF6/EL509 horizontal output tubes....

http://davidberning.com/products/ea2100

but of course others will just stick to the usual suspects,45, 2A3, 300b, 845, el84, el34, kt88 etc..., i'd say they are missing a lot...;)
« Last Edit: Feb 20, 2016 at 03:35 PM by CoolTOYZPH »
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Offline dudong

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #382 on: Feb 20, 2016 at 03:56 PM »
Vacuum tubes are like tires...

There are all weather tires, mud grapplers, sand terrain tires, slick tires etc.

Can you use mud grapplers in your truck and drive fast in the skyway?  Of course!

Can you use slick tires while its raining? Why not!

Is it advisable to use them in those situations? Not really.

Check out Audio Magazines published between 1959 to 1962, look at the tube complement on all of the manufacturer's products; what do they all have in common? 12AX7/ECC83s (because it is an audio tube)

And according to RCA, a 6AN8 is an all weather tire (tube)

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Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #383 on: Feb 20, 2016 at 04:07 PM »
there is a locally made line amp using the 6sn7 and looking at the wring,
the circuit came from a tv vertical oscillator, and why not?,
tv's vertical section is an audio circuit, and linear too...

of course, end users will never appreciate this....
i posted this information in 2013 here:
http://www.wiredstate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26792&start=40

this is the original webpage: http://www.hawestv.com/mtv_cbssys/cbssysadapt1.htm

a victor tv service manual showing the tube.....three of them in fact....
http://www.ee.sc.edu/classes/Spring12/elct402/AssignmentDetails/RCA_Victor.pdf

if you are new to tubes, there is a big chance that you do not know about this....

but this is not a big deal really, but it is nice to know... ;)
« Last Edit: Feb 20, 2016 at 04:12 PM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #384 on: Feb 20, 2016 at 04:08 PM »
thank you for the confirmation.....;)

Vacuum tubes are like tires...

There are all weather tires, mud grapplers, sand terrain tires, slick tires etc.

Can you use mud grapplers in your truck and drive fast in the skyway?  Of course!

Can you use slick tires while its raining? Why not!

Is it advisable to use them in those situations? Not really.

Check out Audio Magazines published between 1959 to 1962, look at the tube complement on all of the manufacturer's products; what do they all have in common? 12AX7/ECC83s (because it is an audio tube)

And according to RCA, a 6AN8 is an all weather tire (tube)


how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline CoolTOYZPH

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #385 on: Feb 20, 2016 at 04:11 PM »
Thank You for confirming to a newbie(s) we are not "missing a lot" while utilizing the 6Sn7 or the 12SX7 tube for audio use.  ^-^

there is a locally made line amp using the 6sn7 and looking at the wring,
the circuit came from a tv vertical oscillator, and why not?,
tv's vertical section is an audio circuit, and linear too...

of course, end users will never appreciate this....
i posted this information in 2013 here:
http://www.wiredstate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26792&start=40

this is the original webpage: http://www.hawestv.com/mtv_cbssys/cbssysadapt1.htm

a victor tv service manual showing the tube.....three of them in fact....
http://www.ee.sc.edu/classes/Spring12/elct402/AssignmentDetails/RCA_Victor.pdf

if you are new to tubes, there is a big chance that you do not know about this....

bit that this is a big deal really, but it is nice to know...
« Last Edit: Feb 20, 2016 at 06:08 PM by CoolTOYZPH »
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Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #386 on: Feb 20, 2016 at 04:32 PM »
whatever floats your boat, go for it...
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #387 on: Feb 20, 2016 at 07:39 PM »
Because i love solid state. It rocks!!!!

Offline tony

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #388 on: Feb 20, 2016 at 07:41 PM »
Because i love solid state. It rocks!!!!

indeed it does....;)
and if someone is trying to convince you about tubes amps,
just make sure he is not trying to sell you a tube amp, or used tubes even....... >:D
« Last Edit: Feb 21, 2016 at 09:01 AM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

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Re: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #389 on: Feb 21, 2016 at 08:57 AM »
this is what i really mean to impart to those contemplating tubes...
that there are a lot of tubes out there waiting to see action in an audio amp...
this is what i mean that you can be missing a lot....
the excellent work by Don, aka smoking-amp, and George Sanders, aka tubelab, http://tubelab.com/
are all posted at diyaudio......

the tube table that smoking-amp came up with listed the hierarchy of tubes wrt cathode capacity,
arranged from highest to lowest, notice that the 6AV5 scored higher than the Kt120......
in fact, the audio tubes are in the bottom of the list.......

Quote from: smoking-amp;4612358
Here are some 12BQ6 curves for g2 drive and "Crazy Drive" (hybrid g2 and g1).

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/285100-those-magnificent-television-tubes-2.html#post4578292

When the datasheet refers to high perveance, they are usually talking about the g1 gm being high. For g2, divide that by the g2/g1 Mu factor. So for the 12BQ6GT, gm1 = 5550 at 55 mA, Mu = 4.3, so gm2 = 5550/4.3 = 1290 (about what a 12AX7 has for g1 gm!)

Here are some data for TV Sweeps in general, for g2 drive purposes. This gives the plate knee current available for g2 = 150 V (with g1 = 0 V). Tubes at the top of the list are the more desirable for g2 drive. (For example, a 35LR6 could get you gm2 = 16000/3.5 = 4571)

Crazy Drive (g2 and g1 hybrid) can reduce the drive voltage requirement by around 33% from plain g2 drive. It's also more linear. Same high Rp out though, so some kind of N Fdbk needed to lower output Z.

List of knee currents for g2 = 150 V, g1 = 0 V, Vp = 60 to 80 V
<tube> <Watts> <mA knee@150Vg2> <gm1> <Mu> <maxDCmA> <registered by> <date>

6LF6 40W 1144mA@150V 15K@125mA Mu3 500mADC Amperex 1968
6KG6/EL509 34W 1135mA@150V 13K@150mA Mu3.2 500mADC Amperex 1965
6MC6 33W 1130mA@150V 14K@125mA Mu4 400mADC RCA (6LX6 clone) 1972
13E1 90W(absmax) 1120mA@150V 35K@500mA Mu4.5 800mADC AEI 1961
6MH6 38.3W 1100mA@150V 14K@125mA Mu4 500mADC GE (up-rated 6LX6,6KD6,26HU5) 1972
6MB6 38W 1085mA@150V 14K@110mA Mu3.5 400mADC Sylvania 1971
6LR6 30W 1085mA@150V 16K@140mA Mu3.5 375mADC Sylvania 1968
6LX6/6KD6/26HU5 33W 1080mA@150V 14K@125mA Mu4 400mADC GE 1969/1965/1969
6LW6 40W 1050mA@150V 12K@125mA Mu3.7 400mADC GE 1971
6KN6 30W 1050mA@150V 16K@100mA Mu4.5 400mADC Sylvania 1965 (later versions are 6KD6)
6LZ6 30W 940mA@150V 11K@140mA Mu3 350mADC RCA 1971
6LB6/A 30W/35W 825mA@150V 13.4K@105mA Mu4 315mADC GE 1967
6JE6C/6JS6C 30W 789mA@150V 10.5K@130mA Mu3 350mADC Sylvania 68/69
6JE6 24W 762mA@150V 9.6K@115mA Mu3 315mADC RCA 1962
6JS6/6HF5 28W 749mA@150V 11.5K@130mA Mu3 315mADC GE 1964/1963
6MJ6 30W 740mA@150V 11K@100mA Mu3.6 350mADC RCA 1973
6LG6 28W 740mA@150V 11.5K@90mA Mu3.6 315mADC GE 1967
6LQ6 30W 715mA@150V 7.5K@95mA Mu3 350mADC RCA 1967
6ME6 30W 700mA@150V 9.6@130mA Mu3.5 350mADC RCA 1971
6DQ5 24W 690mA@150V 10.5K@110mA Mu3.3 315mADC RCA 1957
6JF6/6JG6 17W 660mA@150V 10K@80mA Mu4.1 275mADC RCA 1965/1964
6KM6 20W 630mA@150V 9.5K@80mA Mu4 275mADC RCA 1965
6HD5/6HJ5 24W 630mA@150V 10K@80mA Mu4.2 280mADC Raytheon 1962/1963
6JR6/6JU6 17W 600mA@150V 7K@45mA Mu4.7 275mADC RCA 1968/1966
6JZ6/21HB5A 18W 560mA@150V 9K@46mA Mu4.8 230mADC  GE 1966/1964
12HE7 10-15W 540mA@150V 8.8K@60mA Mu4.2 200mADC GE (15W if damper disabled) 1964
6CL5 25W 514mA@150V 6.5K@90mA Mu3 240mADC Sylvania 1955
6GB5/29KQ6/EL500 17W 500mA@150V 13K@100mA Mu5.1 275mADC Amperex 1961/Matsucrapa 1959/Philips 1961?
6KV6/A 20-28W 488/610mA@150V 6K@40mA Mu4 275mADC RCA (re-rated 6KM6?) 1967/1969
6HB5/6GY5/21JV6/6KE6/16KA6 18W 475mA@150V 9.1K@50mA Mu4.7 230mADC GE/GE/GE/Ray/Tung 1962/1962/1965/1965/1964
6EX6 22W 460mA@150V 7.7K@67mA Mu4.2 220mADC Raytheon (up-rated 6CD6) 1959
6CB5/A 23W 440mA@150V 8.8K@90mA Mu3.8 240mADC RCA 1954/1956
6CD6/GA 15/20W 422mA@150V 7.7K@75mA Mu3.9 200mADC RCA/GE 1949/1954
6GT5/6GJ5/6JT6/6JB6/6GW6 17.5W 380mA@150V 7.1K@70mA Mu4.4 175mADC RCA 1961/1961/1964/1962/1961
6GE5 17.5W 350mA@150V 7.3K@65mA Mu4.4 175mADC GE 1961
6GF5 9W 345mA@150V 4.7K@34mA Mu4.2 160mADC GE 1961
6JM6/6JN6/6FW5/6GC6 17.5W 340mA@150V 7.3K@70mA Mu4.4 175mADC GE 1964/1964/1960/1960
6DQ6B/6GV5 17.5W/18W 330mA@150V 7.3K@65mA Mu4.4 175mADC GE 1959/1962
6DQ6/A 18W 280mA@150V 6.6K@55mA Mu4.1 120/155mADC CBS/RCA 1955/1956
6JA5/10JA5 19W 276mA@150V 10.3K@95mA Mu5.5 110mADC GE 1971
6LU8/6LR8//6MY8 14//16W 265mA@150V 9.3K@56mA Mu6.5 75mADC Sylvania 1964/1964//1970(Toshiba)
6AV5/GA///6BQ6/GA 11W 255ma@150V 5.9K@57mA Mu4.3 110mADC CBS/GE 1949/1955 /// CBS/Syl 1949/1953
KT120 60W 221ma@150V 190mADC
KT90 50W 220mA@150V
6Y6G/GT/GA 12.5W 200mA@150V Ray 1937/KenRad 1939/Syl 1954
6550A 35W/42W 190mA@150V 11K@140mA 190mADC 
6W6GT 10W 185mA@150V 8K@46mA Mu6.2 65mADC CBS 1939
KT88 35W 170mA@150V 175mADC
6CA7/EL34 25W 107mA@150V 11K@100mA Mu10.5 150mADC Philips 1952
6JC5 19W 80mA@150V 4.1K@43mA Mu7 75mADC Sylvania 1971
6L6/G/GA/GB/GC 30W 77mA@150V 4.7K@40mA Mu8 110mADC RCA 1936/Ray 1936/Syl 1943/Syl 1954/GE 1958
6HB6 10W 70mA@150V 20K@40mA Mu33 60mADC Raytheon 1961
6GK6 13.2W 65mA@150V 11.3K@48mA Mu19 65mADC CBS 1959
6BQ5/EL84 12W 65mA@150V 11.3K@48mA Mu19.5 65mADC Rogers 1956
6V6G/GT 14W 45mA@150V 4.1K@45mA Mu9.8 40mADC KenRad 1936/CBS 1939
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« Last Edit: Feb 21, 2016 at 08:57 AM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....