Topic: SITWAP: Philippines R3 releases BACKLASH

[jackryan]

Those who don't have HT setups and those who just want to see the film probably get their DVDs from Quiapo. I think members of pinoydvd comprise a significant fraction of original DVD buyers. Tingnan mo na lang pagnagssale sa Podium and other stores. So banding together may still work and influence our local studios. If I'm not mistaken, some of the marketing execs of these studios probably browse this site too. So let's go ahead and say what we want them to know.

And what's wrong if one decides to get some titles from Quiapo ? I have both originals and make no excuses nor qualms about having pdvd's too...

And I can tell you the reverse, I have HT set-up that I have spent a good sum of money on, as well and have been a member here for years now and also have come to know of the original The Q members way back...

So I don't think putting generalizations like this is helpful nor discriminating like this makes practical sense... 

[Mr. Hankey]

I think you guys have to go all the way...stop buying non-Warner releases, no matter how HUGE/TEMPTING the title is...don't buy KK or Narnia LWW EVEN during sales. This will give them the impression/idea -- "Pakipot pa kayo eh, bibili rin pala." I think the thing that will hurt them more, if not most, is -- "Kahit sale wala silang benta."

Which just brings me back to "they will just stop importing DVD9s altogether." The Philippine DVD market isn't considered significant enough by the Hollywood studios. That's the truth of the matter. Here's firewired's statement on that in a separate thread:

When a title is scheduled for release, there's a specific target that's imposed on a geographic area... Region "3" in our case. It's up to all the distributors in that area to consolidate their orders to hit that number. Larger markets will commit to significant quantities while smaller markets like the Philippines will simply ride on. In other words, it doesn't matter if we order the title or not. If the magic number is met, the title is released. If not, it's dropped for the entire region... not permanently, but it's usually delayed. In most cases, countries like Hong Kong, Singapore, and Korea make quota for the entire region.

Full text: http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=44476.msg516000#msg516000

We don't even count as far as the Hollywood studios are concerned! If they don't care, and the local distributors can't turn a profit due to boycotts, these titles will just disappear from our shelves completely.

I don't see a "general boycott" as a solution. In the long run, it'll still be the consumers who suffer as a result, with no option but to buy more expensive (and some will argue contraband) R1 releases.

**********

While we're on the topic of bad R3 releases, I collect a lot of Hallmark Channel titles, especially since they've been coming out full screen but very reasonably priced on Philippine R3. I was satisfied enough with their quality UNTIL I purchased "Creature."

Not only is the cover art very dark and muddy, but the disc itself? I just played mine, and on the top of the screen of this ORIGINAL PHILIPPINE R3 TITLE was:

"For Screening Purposes Only."

Unbelievable!

Only in the Philippines, huh?

[viper]

Not only is the cover art very dark and muddy, but the disc itself? I just played mine, and on the top of the screen of this ORIGINAL PHILIPPINE R3 TITLE was:

"For Screening Purposes Only."

Unbelievable!

Only in the Philippines, huh?

I just remember a quote from one of my friends in the local movie industry. The Viva's of this world releases 'contraband' titles and pass it off as originals. This way, they need not declare the actual number of units produced to the government and foreign studios. 

[av_phile1]

I just remember a quote from one of my friends in the local movie industry. The Viva's of this world releases 'contraband' titles and pass it off as originals. This way, they need not declare the actual number of units produced to the government and foreign studios. 

Won't be surprised if they did.  Vivia, C-Interactive, Magnavision - these are distributors.  Middlemen, so to speak, who are into the buy and sell business model.

Warner seems to distribute their own titles.  No middlemen.  That could also account for their lower price tags. 

[av_phile1]

The local DVD industry is still in its infancy, and what better way in helping it grow than making our views/disappointments/complaints be heard (or read).

I am not sure if I can consider the local DVD industry as still being in its infancy.  The DVD format was launched in 1996.  Granted it took time for 3rd world countries to adopt the format.  But 9 years down the road, I would consider DVD in the Phils to be quite mature.  Only problem is, it has matured to something not very pleasing to many people.   

[av_phile1]

And what's wrong if one decides to get some titles from Quiapo ? I have both originals and make no excuses nor qualms about having pdvd's too...

And I can tell you the reverse, I have HT set-up that I have spent a good sum of money on, as well and have been a member here for years now and also have come to know of the original The Q members way back...

So I don't think putting generalizations like this is helpful nor discriminating like this makes practical sense... 

Same here.  No need for such generalizations.

[av_phile1]

I don't see a "general boycott" as a solution. In the long run, it'll still be the consumers who suffer as a result, with no option but to buy more expensive (and some will argue contraband) R1 releases.

In other words,  for people who can't afford R1 and would like to get original DVDs, let's just accept the crap these distributors dish out.  Right?    Afterall there's no such thing as consumer rights and advocacy in this God-forsaken country of ours.  When Pinoy DVD can rightfully act in the interest of its members,  why bother?  This forum is doing nicely airing member gripes and grumbles ad infinitum and ad nauseum. 

[hemisphere]

agree with avphile on that. sadly, the local DVD industry has not grown or has not maximized its growth to say the least. also, i think boycott is the only way that the 30% collective effort can be felt.

re hollywood, i dont even know if they feel our presence (or if it would make any difference)... except of course after watching some small talks from jarhead and watching features in Fantastic Four. i, including some friends here, have taken big leaps to make our presence felt  in international forums to make aware (to the traffic) and send a message that quality matters to Filipinos regardless of it being PQ, AQ, features or packaging.

hope the studios would follow by reflecting their corporate principles and communicating with their customers constantly. i dont know if my company/clients are just too civilized and well-funded that we can afford FGD and consumer immersion program before we launch any campaign/product? if these studios have actually done such exercise, their product clearly shows that we are not the target market. or are you?

 

[Mr. Hankey]

In other words,  for people who can't afford R1 and would like to get original DVDs, let's just accept the crap these distributors dish out.  Right?    Afterall there's no such thing as consumer rights and advocacy in this God-forsaken country of ours.  When Pinoy DVD can rightfully act in the interest of its members,  why bother?

No, what I said was that a general boycott is NOT a solution. No "other words" there.

Simply boycotting the discs won't tell the distributors of your dissatisfaction with the product. They'll just see it as "no interest in originals since it's a pirate-infested market."

[av_phile1]

No, what I said was that a general boycott is NOT a solution. No "other words" there.

Simply boycotting the discs won't tell the distributors of your dissatisfaction with the product. They'll just see it as "no interest in originals since it's a pirate-infested market."

Writing to them is of no avail, according to an earlier post here.

Boycotting them may not  make any difference, according to you.

Any suggestion?  Because all I am reading point to the same "other words."  Accept their crap or they'll pull out of business.  Sounds more like blackmail to me, don't you think? 

[av_phile1]

agree with avphile on that. sadly, the local DVD industry has not grown or has not maximized its growth to say the least. also, i think boycott is the only way that the 30% collective effort can be felt.

re hollywood, i dont even know if they feel our presence (or if it would make any difference)... except of course after watching some small talks from jarhead and watching features in Fantastic Four. i, including some friends here, have taken big leaps to make our presence felt  in international forums to make aware (to the traffic) and send a message that quality matters to Filipinos regardless of it being PQ, AQ, features or packaging.

hope the studios would follow by reflecting their corporate principles and communicating with their customers constantly. i dont know if my company/clients are just too civilized and well-funded that we can afford FGD and consumer immersion program before we launch any campaign/product? if these studios have actually done such exercise, their product clearly shows that we are not the target market. or are you?

 

A boycott to me is the solution.  Glad to know someone here shares that.  According to Mr. Hankey, we ran the risk they'll just fold up in this "pirate-infested' DVD market of ours.  So be it.  If they see that a Warner is the only one left raking in all the profits, they just might re-think.  Assuming, they're thinking people.

Too bad, most of the 30% DVD enthusiasts here who gripe and grumble about the lousy KK and Narnia packaging have already bought these and have given Magna every reason to laugh all the way to the bank.  In short, there's probably no one else left but me who will boycott these locally released titles.   

I would like to think that concerned people should think of ways to teach these sloppy distributors a hard lesson.  Otherwise, if they think the market is not that demanding, they'll continue to laugh all the way to the bank with crappy products. 

My suggestion, apart from a boycott of their titles, is to return the crap you already bought and demand an exchange or a refund.  Being vocal should not end in forums such as this.  Uphold your right as a consumer.  To those who already bought their splendid R1 copies, this can be a hassle and very inconvenient, but if I may suggest,  you can buy the local Narnia title, keep the receipt and have them returned/refunded the next day.  I think if all of us did this, we can make the message come across, painfully for them.     And pretty soon, you could also benefit if these local players come up with reasonably packaged titles for lower prices than R1s.  

[lord_vader]

I also agree with av_phile on the boycott isuue.

Better yet, buy the DVD, watch it at home, then have it refunded like what I did. That way, the message will be clear that we are dissatisfied with their product, and not just because "this country of ours is a pirate-infested market".

[av_phile1]

Lord_Vader, you took the wind out of my suggestion.     I was amending my earlier post when I saw yours. 

Yes,  buy their titles and refund them the following day. Even to those who already have their R1s.   The message will be compellingly clear.  I will try to get the Narnia title and return it before the holidays. 

BTW, Lord_Vader, did you pay in Cash or Credit Card before you had it refunded??

[Mr. Hankey]

Since it's apparently not clear, I'll place the key word in boldface this time.

For the third time: a general boycott is NOT a solution. I have not added the term "general" to any of the previous posts. This statement is in response to this quote:

you guys have to go all the way...stop buying non-Warner releases, no matter how HUGE/TEMPTING the title is

I find it ludicrous to advocate a general Viva DVD boycott for misprints on ONE title. DVD-Freak also made this same point a few posts back. They brought in Alien Quadrilogy, the Star Wars Trilogy, The Sound of Music, Titanic... all at VERY reasonable prices when compared to their R1 counterparts, and at even better prices during the too-numerous-to-count Podium sales we have in this country. As it is, firewired has often stated here that the 299 sale price is AT A LOSS, just to get rid of inventory. By advocating a general boycott of all their titles, you'll effectively be putting them out of business. And ALL these GOOD DVD9 titles will stop coming in. So who loses in the long run?

If you want to boycott Narnia, be my guest. In fact, I actually DID. If you check my second post on this thread, I even stated that the defective printing should be used as basis to return the discs before anyone else brought up getting refunds.

As far as King Kong is concerned, as I also previously stated on a separate thread, I personally think that Php 895 with a free DVD is an acceptable price to pay when you compare it to its $19 R1 counterpart with better printing. Because although the shoddy printing/lousy keep case bothers me, I personally don't consider better packaging to be more important than a 15% savings PLUS a free disc. And that's $19 before shipping and handling.

It's really a question of what's important to the individual consumer.

[X-®an™]

Since it's apparently not clear, I'll place the key word in boldface this time.

For the third time: a general boycott is NOT a solution. I have not added the term "general" to any of the previous posts. This statement is in response to this quote:

I find it ludicrous to advocate a general Viva DVD boycott for misprints on ONE title. DVD-Freak also made this same point a few posts back. They brought in Alien Quadrilogy, the Star Wars Trilogy, The Sound of Music, Titanic... all at VERY reasonable prices when compared to their R1 counterparts, and at even better prices during the too-numerous-to-count Podium sales we have in this country. As it is, firewired has often stated here that the 299 sale price is AT A LOSS, just to get rid of inventory. By advocating a general boycott of all their titles, you'll effectively be putting them out of business. And ALL these GOOD DVD9 titles will stop coming in. So who loses in the long run?

If you want to boycott Narnia, be my guest. In fact, I actually DID. If you check my second post on this thread, I even stated that the defective printing should be used as basis to return the discs before anyone else brought up getting refunds.

As far as King Kong is concerned, as I also previously stated on a separate thread, I personally think that Php 895 with a free DVD is an acceptable price to pay when you compare it to its $19 R1 counterpart with better printing. Because although the shoddy printing/lousy keep case bothers me, I personally don't consider better packaging to be more important than a 15% savings PLUS a free disc. And that's $19 before shipping and handling.

It's really a question of what's important to the individual consumer.

I'm also of the same mind with Mr. Hankey!

No, to general boycott of Viva DVDs!
Yes, the King Kong DVD is actually a very good deal to those who pre-ordered!

As for Narnia, I won't boycott this... BUT, I'll just wait for it be on sale! 

[hemisphere]

boycott dvds with inferior quality!

i have learned my lessons well to check if sale events are really worth it. sometimes you buy the dvds (during sale) because everybody's buying it. after a week, everybody's selling it in the marketplace. i still believe in the quote.. You are what YOU BUY.   

sale or no sale.. narnia r3 is not worth it. also, during sale..i dont believe they are selling it way below profit. show us the numbers if that's the case.

 






   

[av_phile1]

The KK DVD may have been a good deal to those who reserved.  But ONLY to those who reserved.

[av_phile1]

While I may not be disposed towards general boycott of these offending distributors, I wouldn't mind if there's one.  I advocate boycotting their lousy releases.  (But with most disney titles from Viva, isn't that the case?)  You can start with this Narnia issue and other releases the consumer finds offensive for their price.

It's not as if this Narnia and KK thing is an isolated case - one where a simple apology or a withdrawal of stocks can remedy their kapalpakan.  But even such remedies often resorted to by respectable automobile companies who realized their errors in the marketplace will forever escape these callous middlemen-distributors.  Afterall,  it's just DVD.  Nothing life-threatening if they come out with defective products.     It's really up to consumers to uphold their rights.  But I can understand a reluctance to a general boycott.  Consumer advocacy will never prosper in this country.  Pinoys are known to accept their lot with total submission. 

Am I supposed to turn a blind eye to the crap they now dish out just because their past glories benefited the market?  Simply grumble in forums like this?  Boycotts are not meant to close down their businesses, but are meant to teach them a lesson that they cannot foist a lousy product and expect their target markets to stand by these.  It is obvious emails and returns are not getting the message across.  Now if such a draconian measure forces them to shut down, too bad.  But I am sure they won't.  They wouldn't want Warner Phils to hog the local market all to themselves.   

[av_phile1]

boycott dvds with inferior quality!

i have learned my lessons well to check if sale events are really worth it. sometimes you buy the dvds (during sale) because everybody's buying it. after a week, everybody's selling it in the marketplace. i still believe in the quote.. You are what YOU BUY.   

sale or no sale.. narnia r3 is not worth it. also, during sale..i dont believe they are selling it way below profit. show us the numbers if that's the case.

 
   

I will be very much interested in those numbers as well.  A couple of years ago, I encourntered a net article that says it only cost roughly $1.50 to produce, market  and distribute a DVD title when analyzed on a per unit cost basis.  That's just under P100.   So I don't see how they can lose at P299 per during SALE.   Ofcourse, such computations are open to debate, they could be wrong.  But maybe not entirely.  Even if they're off by 100%, you're still looking at a tidy profit at P299.   

But I wouldn't be interested in debating on their profit and loss.  That's internal to them.  If indeed they lose at P299 then it reflects some waste in their cost structures. 

[Quitacet]

I will be very much interested in those numbers as well.  A couple of years ago, I encourntered a net article that says it only cost roughly $1.50 to produce, market  and distribute a DVD title when analyzed on a per unit cost basis.  That's just under P100.   So I don't see how they can lose at P299 per during SALE.   Ofcourse, such computations are open to debate, they could be wrong.  But maybe not entirely.  Even if they're off by 100%, you're still looking at a profit at P299.   

But I wouldn't be interested in debating on their profit and loss.  That's internal to them.  If indeed they lose at P299 then it reflects some waste in their cost structures. 

av_phile,

are royalties for the actors, directors, etc. already included in the figure mentioned in that article? I think the cost itself of production of DVDs are low enough but the royalties are what makes them higher in price.

Like for example, I read somewhere that Keannu is still raking in millions in DVD sales of the Matrix TRilogy!

[av_phile1]

av_phile,

are royalties for the actors, directors, etc. already included in the figure mentioned in that article? I think the cost itself of production of DVDs are low enough but the royalties are what makes them higher in price.

Like for example, I read somewhere that Keannu is still raking in millions in DVD sales of the Matrix TRilogy!

I don't recall if artist royalties were included or not.  I would think specific artist royalties are negotiated and forms part of a contract on a case to case basis.  So there may not be uniform royalty for all.  But with regards the DVD6C (DVD consortium) patent licencing for replicators and content providers, I read it's just $0.05 per DVD as of 2004 and going down.   If I assume that Keanu Reeves get something like 10 US cents per DVD, if only 1% of the estimated 5.8 billion people on earth bought any of his Matrix movies (is that conservative for a popular title?) then his bank grows by about $5.8M. I suppose his royalties are higher. 

[hemisphere]

btw.. pardon my ignorance what do you mean by sitwap?

 

[SPaCeMaN SPiFF]

btw.. pardon my ignorance what do you mean by sitwap?

 

SITWAP = Sorry If This Was Already Posted*

* at least, that's what i know it stands for. 

[hemisphere]

mmm..

 

thanks spiff.

 

[Mr. Hankey]

It is obvious emails and returns are not getting the message across.

Exactly how is it obvious? The Chronicles of Narnia: LWW was released last week. ONE PERSON has stated he sent an email and got no response, and ONE PERSON stated he asked for a refund.

So when a major DVD release sells a couple of hundred units, and a total of TWO people complain about it through different avenues and the company hasn't taken any action in the span of a few days, that's a clear and obvious sign that "the message is not getting across"?

And since you seem to be such an advocate of consumers' rights, av_phile1, let me ask you: What have you done to let Viva and Magna know of your dissatisfaction with their releases other than gripe on this message board and talk about hypothetical boycotts, hypothetical profit margins, and the "ningas kugon" attitude of Filipinos? Have you even tried to voice your sentiments about these releases to anyone directly affiliated with the companies? If so, please share with us how you did and how they responded - then maybe you can get more people to join you in your proposed course of action.

[Quitacet]

In the case of Chronicles of Narnia. Somebody posted that VIVA got the rights to use the R1 slipcase for the Philippine R3 release. It's obvious that VIVA made some editing as to the information contents on the slipcase thus the "ENGLIS" typo error. Why did VIVA still use the information re the slipcase, postacrds, etc. that they know they don't have the rights to?

Can this be a blatant move to cheat the consumers or an honest mistake? I think it's the former. Maybe they are relying on the fact that some or maybe most, consumers won't be bothered by the missing extras stated in the package just as long as the movie is intact. 

After all, what would VIVA do to returned Narnias? They would just repacked them with plastic shrink wraps and they would end up on Video stores' shelves again waiting for those consumers who wouldn't give a d**n whether they have postcards or not.

Or am I wrong?

[classicman]

SITWAP = Sorry If This Was Already Posted*

* at least, that's what i know it stands for. 

ahhh.....yun pala ang meaning nya .......BTW, this topic is getting really interesting, just keep them comin' guys

[geckoph]

If you don't like it, don't buy it. There are others who will, and you have other options, anyway. It's your money and you can spend it the way you want to - it's certainly an individual's prerogative to pay double for better packaging and freebies if that's what's important for him.

My honest take on this? If less and less people buy these titles and they're no longer profitable for the studios that bring them in, then there will come a time when Magnavision and Viva will stop importing these DVD9 titles completely, and we'll eventually be stuck with only "budget" DVD5s as the "legitimate" releases in our country. The bad packaging annoys me, but not enough to boycott good quality DVD9 discs. For me, it's only the movie and the disc special features that really count.

But that's just me.

It seems to me that this is what most, if not all, is REALLY advocating...I'll quote Mr. Hankey's previous post -- "If you don't like it, don't buy it."

From my understanding of the word BOYCOTT is (and I'll use the definition from Merriam-Webster) -- to engage in a concerted refusal to have dealings with (as a person, store, or organization) usually to express disapproval or to force acceptance of certain conditions. That is why, in my previous post, I said "you guys have to go all the way". If you guys plan on buying Narnia LWW or KK during sales...then, I don't think it's boycott. If you guys plan on buying DVD releases, especially the good ones, from Viva and/or Magnavision...then, I don't think it's boycott. If you STOP buying any DVD releases, good or bad, from Viva and/or Magnavision...then, I think it's boycott. So, why don't we just stop using the term "boycott" from now on...this is just my opinion.

'Coz personally...IF I DON'T LIKE A PARTICULAR TITLE, I WON'T BUY IT.

[X-®an™]

The KK DVD may have been a good deal to those who reserved.  But ONLY to those who reserved.

Yes, this is true.  Although, I think I have also read of some members actually wanting to cancel their reservations based on the initial reviews here.

On the other hand, some have claimed to have missed the reservation announcement, thereby missing on a good deal.  My take on this is: It would be very hard to imagine that someone who's a frequent visitor of this site would miss the said reservation announcement since this has been posted in the Front Page days before King Kong was released.

[X-®an™]

boycott dvds with inferior quality!

i have learned my lessons well to check if sale events are really worth it. sometimes you buy the dvds (during sale) because everybody's buying it. after a week, everybody's selling it in the marketplace. i still believe in the quote.. You are what YOU BUY.   
  

It's just too bad that not everyone can buy those Limited Edition DVDs.  Everyone can then claim to be Limited Editions like their DVDs!