Author Topic: The War Begins... (Read 107123 times)

av_phile1 · « **Reply #510 on:** Dec 09, 2006 at 02:29 PM »

The HD developments thus far establish a trend from which people can readily make fearless forcasts if they want. That is why Disney is rumored to make an earth-shaking announcement at CEDIA this spring. Studios, afterall will always go where the money is. Rumor lang naman.

Oh, and it's only in Japan where BD has a substantial lead over HD DVD. Betamax also had a substantial lead there over VHS in the 80s.

barrister · « **Reply #511 on:** Dec 09, 2006 at 02:52 PM »

Quote from: nels76 on Dec 08, 2006 at 10:36 PM

Why would cymphony come up with this report anyway at this early stage of the war?

It's a good time to present a report at an early stage while many enthusiasts are interested. At the later stages, debates are less heated and comparisons naturally become less interesting.

For example, Dolby vs DTS today is less interesting now than it was at the early stages of the war. DVD-Audio vs. SACD today? Yawn. Betamax vs. VHS today? Ho-hum.

At any rate, Cymphony's Consumer Opinions and Trends Report was not a prediction; it was merely a statistical analysis of blog posts for the period of Oct. 1 to Nov. 23, 2006. But if there's anyone guilty of making a prediction that's way too early , then it has to be Sony itself. Here's what Benjamin Feingold, president of Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, had to say in September 2005, when both formats had not even been released:

“I think in 12 months it’s all going to be clear: the combination of Blu-ray and PlayStation 3 machines is going to overwhelm any HD DVD presence and all studios will have to support Blu-ray. ... There’s going to be a big bang when PS 3 launches. The convergence aspect is the killer application. If HD DVD does launch it will be a small format, and the real question is do studios want to build an infrastructure to support that and at the same time risk confusing consumers?" Feingold: Blu-ray to 'Overwhelm' HD DVD

av_phile1 · « **Reply #512 on:** Dec 09, 2006 at 03:55 PM »

I was about to say the same thing that cymphony was just making a report about internet discussion trends on the format wars. Not really a prediction.

But yes, predictions make for interesting and intriguing reads. And if we have to make predictions, there's already enough trend to make a sound one more credible today than if they were done before the launch. Compared to predictions made today based on honest trends in the market for the two formats, the prediction by Feingold in 2005 was nothing more than advertising hype to push for their product. It was based more on their overconfidence and conceit than anything. But I can't blame Feingold. BD did have a more formidable army on its side. But it's interesting to note and quite part from that, is really laughable on hindsight, given the situation today.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #513 on:** Dec 09, 2006 at 06:29 PM »

Interesting trending on google searches for both formats. HD DVD has more google searches.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=blu+ray+%7C+blu-ray,+hd+dvd+%7C+hd-dvd&date=all&geo=all&ctab=1&sa=N

Only India has the most searches on blu ray.

Now I really can't equate google searches with a translation to actual sales of players and titles. But it does give some indication on what the market is more interested in.

Clondalkin · « **Reply #514 on:** Dec 09, 2006 at 09:33 PM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Dec 09, 2006 at 02:29 PM

Oh, and it's only in Japan where BD has a substantial lead over HD DVD. Betamax also had a substantial lead there over VHS in the 80s.

Nope, I didn't mean to say that BD has substantial lead in Japan. Actually, it appears that BD and HD DVD are not as debated YET in Japan compared to the rest of the world despite actual availability of the most expensive and advanced players for both sides. I don't think the players are selling well enough primarily due to their lack of content and prohibitive prices. I heard each of the cylindrical legs of the top-of-the-line Toshiba HD DVD player costed more than 10,000 each. In Bic Camera for instance, there are only less than 10 BD titles and there are only 2 or 3 HD DVD titles on display so it's almost like nothing really significant for BOTH sides. Mainstream still relies heavily on their High Def HDD recorders(which sells like hotcake) and High Def contents from TV, instead of movies, again because of the latter's inavailability. I don't know what the movie studios are waiting for but I'm sure they are aware that on a person to person basis, the Japanese grab everything original from CDs to DVDs in huge quantities on a regular basis.

The market is still relatively quiet on the players per se but BD side appears to be promoting their products more elaborately.

Panasonic has started using their 103-inch plasma to show some BD movie trailers. I think most of us who were looking were not blown away. We imploded. Standing right beside the 103-screen, it was about 175 cm tall with its proprietary stand, and is actually taller than I am

, but personally, I thought the HD trailers looked most pristine on the 50 inch Pany Plasma. Toshiba on the other hand is finally showing MI3 on a Toshiba 40 inch LCD. No doubt it was pretty nice as well, but 103 inch plasma is simply out of this world.

OT, side by side and top to bottom, standard DVD still looks better on a Plasma than a same level LCD. That, I'm absolutely positive.

I think it was eventually in the Philippines where consumer level Betamax took its very last stand.

. although I remember in 1990, I saw one or two very very expensive Betamax machines for Japanese enthusiasts.

nels76 · « **Reply #515 on:** Dec 09, 2006 at 10:21 PM »

How about this...

China unveils fleet of 'HD DVD killer' players.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12/07/china_unveils_54_evd_players/

Seems like China will not be supporting HD DVD / Blu Ray.

Kratos · « **Reply #516 on:** Dec 09, 2006 at 11:45 PM »

Quote from: nels76 on Dec 09, 2006 at 10:21 PM

How about this...

China unveils fleet of 'HD DVD killer' players.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12/07/china_unveils_54_evd_players/

Seems like China will not be supporting HD DVD / Blu Ray.

Uh-oh, seems like the war is just starting up.

barrister · « **Reply #517 on:** Dec 10, 2006 at 01:28 AM »

Toshiba HD-A2 on store shelves now
http://a.engadgethd.com/2006/12/08/toshiba-hd-a2-on-store-shelves-now/

dagul27 · « **Reply #518 on:** Dec 10, 2006 at 01:52 AM »

I hope that HD DVD format wins because that's what i have right now,hehehe.I was planning to get the PS3 next year but i'll just save up for a 1080p capable TV.I've seen the 2 formats in action and they're both excellent in terms of PQ.It's just a matter of choice i guess.I choose HD DVD.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #519 on:** Dec 10, 2006 at 06:38 AM »

Quote from: nels76 on Dec 09, 2006 at 10:21 PM

How about this...

China unveils fleet of 'HD DVD killer' players.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12/07/china_unveils_54_evd_players/

Seems like China will not be supporting HD DVD / Blu Ray.

Old story this EVD - a government sponsored format to do away with royalites to western captalist economies. It didn't sail in 2004. and I doubt it ever will. And there are actually other formats touted to compete with BD and HD DVD. As long as Hollywood doesn't have titles in them, they'll just be footnotes in this format war, despite the fact that Chna produces more movies than Hollywood. Then again, if you like wtching Chinese movies more than Hollywood movies, why not get an EVD player? I would think the only way hollywood movies will get encoded on EVD is the pirated route.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #520 on:** Dec 10, 2006 at 06:50 AM »

Quote from: barrister on Dec 10, 2006 at 01:28 AM

Toshiba HD-A2 on store shelves now
http://a.engadgethd.com/2006/12/08/toshiba-hd-a2-on-store-shelves-now/

Nice, 30secs faster loading times. But still slow by DVD experience. 2nd generation na sa US, wala pang launch sa Europe.

How about here?

alvinthx2 · « **Reply #521 on:** Dec 10, 2006 at 07:49 AM »

Its not worth upgrading horizontally with the A2 as it has less features than the A1 except for a slimmer design and faster loading time. The AX2 or is it XA2 is the better choice because it can output 1080p and has HDMI 1.3 specs. Of course it is more expensive

av_phile1 · « **Reply #522 on:** Dec 10, 2006 at 09:10 AM »

I would stick with the A1. If one already has an ultra expensive display capable of accepting 1080p input, then a 1080p outputting player is a natural. Otherwise, for practical HT purposes, 1080p output players are not necessary to enjoy high def, especially when one already has an upscaling 1080p display. Accdg to many early adopters on avforums, the nearly doubled cost for both player and display doesn't justify whatever arguable PQ improvement there is between 1080i and 1080p. At least not now.

sillyputty · « **Reply #523 on:** Dec 10, 2006 at 10:08 AM »

nice report

may sinabi dun sa report na ngayon ko lang narealize...
mukhang nagbackfire sa sony yung decision nila na gumamit ng bluray sa ps3...nawalan ng option yung hard-core gamers...ito pa yung reason kung bakit naging mahal yung ps3. Ang tanong lang e kung gaano kalaki yung population na ganito yung nafe-feel.

may mga nabasa din ako tungkol dun sa problema ng ps3 sa pagdisplay ng 720p n 1080i. Since ito yung majority ng hd displays e laking problema nito. Kahit lagyan nila ng firmware upgrade e dapat naconsider na nila ito in the first place. Feeling ba nila e bibili lahat ng tao ng 1080p displays para lang makanood sa ps3??

nels76 · « **Reply #524 on:** Dec 13, 2006 at 11:08 AM »

Disney to support Blu Ray.

http://www.psu.com/node/5951

av_phile1 · « **Reply #525 on:** Dec 13, 2006 at 11:13 AM »

Don't they already?

barrister · « **Reply #526 on:** Dec 13, 2006 at 12:21 PM »

Disney has officially been a member of the Blu-ray Disc Association since December 2004. However, since Paramount and Warner have released titles in both Blu-ray and HD-DVD, we know that there is no contractual prohibition against supporting both formats.

Disney is now officially fence-sitting.

1. Aug. 12, 2004: First announced by the Blu-ray Disc Association: BLU-RAY DISC ASSOCIATION WELCOMES THE WALT DISNEY COMPANY

2. Dec. 8, 2004: Announced by Disney itself: THE WALT DISNEY COMPANY TO SUPPORT BLU-RAY DISC FORMAT

3. Mar 15, 2006: Disney may support both HD DVD and Blu-ray

That's why there are no BD Disney releases yet. Nag-announce ng titles, pero walang release dates.

bachwitz · « **Reply #527 on:** Dec 13, 2006 at 12:28 PM »

Sony says PS3 manufacturing problems all shored up

We'll believe it when we see it. After suffering through what could very well be the most abysmal launch quantity of all time, Sony says that it has ironed out its manufacturing snags and is now back on track to have one million PS3s "in the pipeline" by the December 31, 2006. According to Sony's PR head, David Karraker: "We will continue to utilise airfreight delivery for PlayStation 3 to assure a steady stream of systems for North American consumers through the end of the year." One million units sure is a tall order, given the mere 197,000 boxes Sony managed to move in November, and we can't help but wonder if "pipeline" means "chugging through a factory" or "landing on shelves" by December 31st, but we suppose we'll know either way in a couple of weeks. Luckily for Sony, that certain console of theirs that wasn't bleeding ~$250 per sale for the company sold like gangbusters: 664,000 units, besting both the Wii and 360 in North America.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/12/sony-says-ps3-manufacturing-problems-all-shored-up/

Munskie · « **Reply #528 on:** Dec 13, 2006 at 12:33 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Dec 13, 2006 at 12:21 PM

Disney has officially been a member of the Blu-ray Disc Association since December 2004. However, since Paramount and Warner have released titles in both Blu-ray and HD-DVD, we know that there is no contractual prohibition against supporting both formats.

Disney is now officially fence-sitting.

1. Aug. 12, 2004: First announced by the Blu-ray Disc Association: BLU-RAY DISC ASSOCIATION WELCOMES THE WALT DISNEY COMPANY

2. Dec. 8, 2004: Announced by Disney itself: THE WALT DISNEY COMPANY TO SUPPORT BLU-RAY DISC FORMAT

3. Mar 15, 2006: Disney may support both HD DVD and Blu-ray

That's why there are no BD Disney releases yet. Nag-announce ng titles, pero walang release dates.

plain rumors guys.....me big announcement raw, january CES....

jct_27 · « **Reply #529 on:** Dec 14, 2006 at 04:14 PM »

Mga master, anyone knows where I can buy the Toshiba HD-A1 locally? Mga magkano kaya

NeilNo · « **Reply #530 on:** Dec 14, 2006 at 10:02 PM »

Quote from: jct_27 on Dec 14, 2006 at 04:14 PM

Mga master, anyone knows where I can buy the Toshiba HD-A1 locally? Mga magkano kaya

jct_27
There is a separate thread for that.

Happy Christmas!

_______________________________________________________________________________________

slowhand · « **Reply #531 on:** Dec 21, 2006 at 05:55 PM »

Universal players avert DVD format duel

barrister · « **Reply #532 on:** Dec 21, 2006 at 07:09 PM »

Quote from: slowhand on Dec 21, 2006 at 05:55 PM

Universal players avert DVD format duel

Universal players avert DVD format duel

Machines capable of playing both Blu-ray Disc (BD) and HD DVD discs will emerge next year to short-circuit the format war in next-generation DVD.

=================================================

Sir av_phile1, remind me about this article on January 1, 2008. I have a feeling that it will be the object of my sarcasm on the said date.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #533 on:** Dec 21, 2006 at 11:28 PM »

No problem, if i'm still alive.

Just curious, why do you say that?

barrister · « **Reply #534 on:** Dec 22, 2006 at 02:06 AM »

Another link: http://www.eetasia.com/ARTP_8800446156_590626.HTM

As of the article's date, the only shipped product is a dual HD DVD/BD decoder chip from Broadcom. Note that it's just a chip, not a player. Yet the title of the article implies that a universal player already exists by announcing: "Universal players avert DVD format duel".

Let's move on to the first sentence: "Machines capable of playing both Blu-ray Disc (BD) and HD DVD discs will emerge next year to short-circuit the format war in next-generation DVD." Oh, I see. The players don't exist yet. But they'll be out next year.

Let's read on and find out which manufacturers have actually announced that they will release a universal player in 2007. We reach the end of the article, but contrary to the implication in the first sentence, we learn that no video player manufacturer has ever announced anything to that effect.

Now read that title again. It's probably the most deliberately misleading title I've seen in any article. If the universal player doesn't arrive by January 1, 2008, I'm going to bring this up again.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #535 on:** Dec 22, 2006 at 08:39 AM »

Well, the title is indeed misleading. It's like the event has happened when the article is really just talking about future possibilities. Perhaps their excitement took out the site's better judgement. Actually, even with dual format players, the war won't be averted. In the first place the war has already started. The war will go on even with dual format players. Only this time, they will be in DETENTE - or forced coexistence.

Munskie · « **Reply #536 on:** Dec 22, 2006 at 09:47 AM »

THE BEST AND WORST OF HIGHDEF DISCS OF 2006

av_phile1 · « **Reply #537 on:** Dec 22, 2006 at 12:04 PM »

Same cite was referred to in avforums.com under a separate thread. I think same in avsforum.com. Seems to me that HD DVD has more titles in the Best Overall category and Blu Ray has the most in the Worst OVerall category. Has anyone made a more thorough count?

alvinthx2 · « **Reply #538 on:** Dec 23, 2006 at 01:04 PM »

From what I have seen using a 1080p PJ , these are some of the notables:

King Kong
Tears of the Sun
Kingdom of Heaven
Batman Begins
Ice age 2
House of flying daggers
MI3
Black Hawk down
U571
Bourne Supremacy
Polar Express

Mouldingo · « **Reply #539 on:** Dec 25, 2006 at 10:41 AM »

Coming out in Blu ray (http://www.highdefdigest.com/)

December 26, 2006
The Descent (Lionsgate)
Transporter 2 (Fox)
January 02, 2007
The Covenant (Sony)
January 09, 2007
Crank (Lionsgate)
January 16, 2007
Employee of the Month (Lionsgate)
GoodFellas (Warner)
Resident Evil: Apocalypse (Sony)
Scooby-Doo (2002) (Warner)
Winged Migration (Sony)
January 23, 2007
Alien vs. Predator (Fox)
Black Rain (Paramount)
Casanova (Buena Vista)
Chicago (Buena Vista)
Courage Under Fire (Fox)
Gridiron Gang (Sony)
The Guardian (2006) (Buena Vista)
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (Buena Vista)
The Manchurian Candidate (2004) (Paramount)
Men of Honor (Fox)
Saw II (Lionsgate)
Saw II (Unrated) (Lionsgate)
Saw III (Lionsgate)
We Were Soldiers (Paramount)
January 30, 2007
Flyboys (Fox)
Hart's War (Fox)
Open Season (Sony)
February 06, 2007
American Psycho (Lionsgate)
Failure to Launch (Paramount)
First Blood (Lionsgate)
Glory (Sony)
Reservoir Dogs (Lionsgate)
The Tailor of Panama (Sony)
February 13, 2007
Broken Arrow (Fox)
Chain Reaction (Fox)
Entrapment (Fox)
Ladder 49 (Buena Vista)
Marie Antoinette (Sony)
The Marine (Fox)
Phone Booth (Fox)
Planet of the Apes (Fox)
Reign of Fire (Buena Vista)
The Sentinel (Fox)
The Usual Suspects (Fox)
February 20, 2007
Babel (Paramount)
The Prestige (Buena Vista)
Vertical Limit (Sony)
February 27, 2007
Alexander: The Unrated Final Cut (Warner)
Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You in Time (Interscope)
March 13, 2007
Commando (Fox)
Dances with Wolves (MGM)
Dodgeball (Fox)
Hoosiers (MGM)
Ice Age (Fox)
Mr. & Mrs. Smith (Fox)
The Silence of the Lambs (MGM)
The Thomas Crown Affair (1999) (MGM)
April 10, 2007
Payback: Straight Up - The Director's Cut (Paramount)

Release Dates Postponed
The following titles were originally given release dates but have since been postponed with no new dates announced. Watch this space for the latest street date updates as soon as they are made official.
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (Sony)
The Da Vinci Code (Sony)
From Hell (Fox)
Gattaca (Sony)
Layer Cake (Sony)
Legends of the Fall (Sony)
The Princess Bride (MGM)
The Professionals (Sony)
RoboCop (MGM)
Sense and Sensibility (Sony)
Young Guns (Lionsgate)
Release Dates Pending
The following titles are planned for release in the Blu-ray format (as indicated by press release or previous public statements made by the distributor), but release dates have not been announced:
2001: A Space Odyssey (Warner)
Above the Law (Warner)
Aladdin (Buena Vista)
Angels in America (HBO)
Armageddon (Buena Vista)
Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery (New Line)
Band of Brothers (HBO)
Batman Begins (Warner)
Beauty and the Beast (Buena Vista)
Blade (New Line)
Blade Runner (Warner)
Bram Stoker's Dracula (Sony)
Braveheart (Paramount)
The Bridge on the River Kwai (Sony)
Catwoman (Warner)
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (Warner)
Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle (Sony)
Chicken Little (Buena Vista)
Chronos (Koch)
A Clockwork Orange (Warner)
Coach Carter (Paramount)
Constantine (Warner)
Contact (Warner)
Dark City (New Line)
Deadwood: Season One (HBO)
Desperado (Sony)
The Dirty Dozen (Warner)
The Dirty Harry Collection (Warner)
District B13 (Magnolia)
Dukes of Hazzard (Warner)
Elizabethtown (Paramount)
Eraser (Warner)
Executive Decision (Warner)
Eyes Wide Shut (Warner)
Father of the Bride (1991) (Buena Vista)
Final Destination (New Line)
Finding Nemo (Buena Vista)
For a Few Dollars More (Sony)
Forbidden Planet (Warner)
Forrest Gump (Paramount)
Frank Herbert's Dune (Lionsgate)
Friday (New Line)
Friends: Season One (Warner)
From the Earth to the Moon (HBO)
Ghost (Paramount)
Gothika (Warner)
Grand Prix (Warner)
Grease (Paramount)
The Green Mile (Warner)
The Guns of Navarone (Sony)
Hard to Kill (Warner)
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (Warner)
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (Warner)
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (Warner)
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (Warner)
Herbie: Fully Loaded (Buena Vista)
Kill Bill: Vol. 1 (Buena Vista)
Kill Bill: Vol. 2 (Buena Vista)
The Lion King (Buena Vista)
The Maltese Falcon (Warner)
The Mask (New Line)
The Matrix Revolutions (Warner)
The Matrix Reloaded (Warner)
The Matrix (Warner)
Maverick (Warner)
The Music Man (Warner)
Mutiny on the Bounty (Warner)
Mystic River (Warner)
National Treasure (Buena Vista)
Next of Kin (Warner)
North by Northwest (Warner)
Ocean's Eleven (Warner)
Ocean's Twelve (Warner)
Passenger 57 (Warner)
The Perfect Storm (Warner)
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (Buena Vista)
The Player (New Line)
The Polar Express (Warner)
Poseidon (Warner)
Red Planet (Warner)
Remember the Titans (Buena Vista)
Rush Hour (New Line)
Save the Last Dance (Paramount)
School of Rock (Paramount)
Se7en (New Line)
See No Evil (Lionsgate)
The Shining (1980) (Warner)
Snow Dogs (Buena Vista)
Soldier (Warner)
The Sopranos: Season One (HBO)
Spawn (New Line)
Spongebob Squarepants: The Movie (Paramount)
Star Trek: First Contact (Sony)
Stargate: Atlantis - Season One (Sony)
Superman: Ultimate Collector's Edition (Warner)
Troy (Warner)
Twister (Warner)
U.S. Marshals (Warner)
Vanilla Sky (Paramount)
Wild Wild West (Warner)
The World's Fastest Indian (Magnolia)